Crackers Keenan's Trade Suggestion

[Fall Out Boy]

From an article a few days back:

Street had 47 hit-outs against St Kilda on Saturday, admittedly against two part-time ruckmen in Matt Maguire and Justin Koschitzke.

Street has been at Geelong five years now and might be coming of age, so do the Cats keep him and offer the out-of-contract big man a new deal or do they sell him?

The side most likely to want him is the one he got his 47 hit-outs against on Saturday.

The Saints are down to Trent Knobel, Chris Oliver and Barry Brooks.

It's not a great ruck arsenal if they want to win a premiership in the next few years as coach Grant Thomas has confidently predicted.

But what has St Kilda got to offer Geelong?

The Cats have made no bones about wanting a key forward and the two blokes who Street slaughtered on Saturday might be available.

Maybe a direct swap is on the cards and while the Saints are feeling generous they could throw in bad boy Steven Lawrence - just to keep the town on its toes.

So boys, which one can we have. Kosi or Maguire? :p

[Falchoon]

Koschitzke for Street :eek: my (_!_)

wouldn't even be in the ball park for Maguire.

Now if I could wipe the coffee off my screen.

[Fall Out Boy]

Crackers is a genius.

Kosi thanks.

[evertonfc]

Street for Oliver or Moyle.

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by evertonfc
Street for Oliver or Moyle.

Seriously Seb, why would we trade Street for an inferior ruckman in Oliver?

Despite what you and i think of Street, i GUARANTEE we will get significantly more than you suggest from whichever club we deal with.

[evertonfc]

You are a bitch, P&P.

Here I was thinking you didn't check your PMs :mad:

Street will get a lot more than what you or I think of him - Cory Mcgrath or Aaron Henneman are worth more than Oliver.

Oliver is a KPP - 195cm, a damn good young talent who still has time to develop, but it won't be with us. You can tell when a player won't kick on with a certain club.

Hunt + Street + Bartel for Oliver + Moyle + 2nd + 3rd Rounder?

I love big, cumbersome trades. It always means they have coloured graphic charts in the Herald Sun the next day, explaining, with swooshy arrows, who went where and for how much.

I actually think that's a pretty fair deal - dare I say our collective 'over' value of Hunt and our 'under' value of Street makes it about right?

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by evertonfc
You are a bitch, P&P.

Here I was thinking you didn't check your PMs :mad:

Huh?

You've totally lost me. Did you send me a PM for some reason? I ain't read nothing from you.

If you have sent one, i suggest you look at PM tracking to see if it has been read before you start calling people names.

[evertonfc]

I turned my PM tracking off.

I basically offered to catch up with you for that beer you owed me from the Pies - Cats match ;)

Obviously not a terribly keen drinker, I fully understand. Hot chocolate was the order of the day down there. :p

[riccardo]

Streets pretty good, but I can't rate him against just St Kilda - our ruck department is a bit short staffed at the moment.
Any stats for other games he's played? We do need a ruck pretty bad, but not bad enough to give away Maguire or Kosi.

[BigCat1]

Originally posted by evertonfc
Hunt + Street + Bartel for Oliver + Moyle + 2nd + 3rd Rounder?


Sory Ev but no way. You are getting 3 players that are up to AFL standard and currently playing at that level and most importantly still improving (Hunt was before injury ended his season) while we are getting junk. Those two will be lucky not to get delisted this year. They would be lucky to have 10 more games between them. Oliver is pathetic and I've heard you say it and as for Moyle, no thanks. Those two draft picks don't swing the balance enough.

It's like me saying we would do Black, McGuire, and Milne for Street, Clarke + 2nd + 3rd round. Seems to me to be the same trade just in reverse. How about it? ;)

[evertonfc]

Originally posted by BigCat1
Sory Ev but no way. You are getting 3 players that are up to AFL standard and currently playing at that level and most importantly still improving (Hunt was before injury ended his season) while we are getting junk. Those two will be lucky not to get delisted this year. They would be lucky to have 10 more games between them. Oliver is pathetic and I've heard you say it and as for Moyle, no thanks. Those two draft picks don't swing the balance enough.

It's like me saying we would do Black, McGuire, and Milne for Street, Clarke + 2nd + 3rd round. Seems to me to be the same trade just in reverse. How about it? ;)

Poor post.

Your argument-twisting analysis doesn't cut it with me.

Hunt is an handy prospect with limited experience. Street is a still a chance to get delisted. Both have achieved little.

I'd equate that to Moyle, who's ahead of both of them easily, packaged with the young Oliver, who I don't rate. Moyle is a talent, and we all know it, but his future is elsewhere IMO. Moyle has shown a great deal of potential, and that's at the top level. Street is a crap player to me, yes he cut us up but we've been cut up by some fairly average players over the past 100 years.

One-off performances mean little.

A 2nd + 3rd rounder for Bartel is a fairly generous offer given that I see phatandphreaky, Geelong's only noted trade expert on BigFooty, was extremely keen to take a 3rd rounder + Green for Bartel.

BigCat, generally you're improving your understanding of trade value, but this is a hell of a lot closer to the money than you think.

[Cupido13]

I think the best way for St. Kilda to go forward in the trade stakes this year is to convince someone out there that Steven Milne is worth a punt and offloaf him.

Another mediocre year like the last one from him will see his value drop to zero and will probably see him delisted in the next few years.

Geelong could do worse than have him running around in the forward line snagging a few goals and may even give you guys Peter Street in exchange.

Also, there are a big stack of ruckman up in Brisbane doing nothing, one of which Dylan McLaren, a Victorian boy would probably love the chance to come back to Victoria and have a chance to run around in the seniors for a few weeks in a row.

[BigCat1]

Originally posted by evertonfc
BigCat, generally you're improving your understanding of trade value, but this is a hell of a lot closer to the money than you think.

Please don't patronise me Ev. I could say the same thing about some of your complicated trades. My twisted trade was a joke and I know it would never happen but surely you must see yours won't either. You over rate Moyle so much its not funny. The kids been in the system for five years and is going backwards. He won't play for the saints again but you think he'd make it at Geelong :confused: Oliver is a joke and will be delisted so i don't even have to consider him. We need to get rid of a ruckman not add another one. So basically you are offering up a 2nd and 3rd rd pick for Bartel, Street, and Hunt. You bag those Geelong players yet they are young and are all playing is a side that recently beat you (Hunt inj). Street is only 23 and ruckman take along time to develop and Hunt was in the team before he got injured. You say they haven't done much but that's my point. They are still improving not going backwards like Moyle. You want to do the deal coz you knew your getting three good players while getting rid of two you don't want. Other clubs aren't that stupid.

PS Both Phat and I rate Bartel very highly. We both accept he has weaknesses but we both think he will go on to play 200 AFL games. The difference is Phat thinks he is gone and we should take anything we can get for him whereas i think we would be mad to let him go and need to keep him no matter what. I never put him in any of my proposed trades.

[evertonfc]

BigCat,

Not patronising mate, but you need to look at what you're offering.

Strip it back to the bare minimum - 'Hunt is an handy prospect with limited experience. Street is a still a chance to get delisted. Both have achieved little'.

Hence, both are worth little.

Bartel HAS acheived something, and is thus worth more. A 2nd + 3rd Rounder is a pretty good offer, esp, if Phat's thesis about him being traded is correct.

The deal was fair; I know what those players are worth.

[BigCat1]

Ok Ev I'll strip it back to the bear minimum. Your offer is a 2nd & 3rd round pick for Hunt, Street and Bartel. I have disregaded Moyle and Oliver coz I have absolutely no interest in them and they would not get a game with us. Ask other clubs what they would give for those two.

we then put the players up for individual trade. Street will bring in a 3rd round pick (no chance of getting delisted after his last month). Bartel has already got offers like Green + 3rd rd, even you think he's worth a 2nd and 3rd. That leaves Hunt who has less value. A 4th round pick is a possibility but i'd rater keep him. Already we have done way better for ourselves.

You say 'The deal was fair; I know what those players are worth' but that comment is a little confusing. Trading is not as simple as trading for 'what players are worth'. A number of factors come into it. A players future potential is a huge part of this. You need to speculate to accumulate. I know you realise this but your trade doesn't reflect it.