View Full Version : Very disappointing...almost embarassing
Well what a waste of a year. To go out 1st week in the finals with out even a hint of a fight. If it wasnt for Cuz and one or 2 others we would be 10 goals down by now......
I am very disappointed in the coaching staff and selections this week. How can we put Selwood and Haynes ahead of Morrison, Humm, Wooden, Chambers, Lynch, Collica, even, dare I say it Carroll. Milli is so far past it, it's embarassing. Depression is officially deeply set it..:mad: :mad: :(
I have to say that Cuz is an absolute champion. Talk about lifting for a big game.......the younger guys could learn a lot from him today....
SH*t, SH&t, SH*t, SH&t, SH*t, SH&t, SH*t, SH&t
we just havent got it today have we....
Black Thunder
6 Sep 2003, 18:16
yea it's very dissapointing to go out, especially given it's a final, i thought we may have had a fair bit more intensity, but we were never gonna recover after the Port game. we were just physically intimadted by them, and it's cost us.
But we're still at least a year from really htting our stride.
Team selections have been ***** ***** all year!
Nothings been done to fix the backline. Wirra has covered up so many holes. and the truth is they're all useless except Glass and Hunter.
Braun, Jones... once again useless under pressure. Past their peak.
Thank god Mcintosh is retiring. Hopefully Jako too or else we get no one developing.
Sierakowski gone.
Thrawn666
6 Sep 2003, 18:34
Originally posted by drexel
Braun, Jones... once again useless under pressure. Past their peak.
Harsh.
Braun is there time and time again in the crunch time in games and Jones has been one of our better players for the year.
Braun is one too many small midfielders. Cousins, Kerr, Fletcher is more than enough.
Braun is good but theres no balance in midfield... It would be better to have someone like Troy Cook crashing the packs early.
Worsfold has payed for not playing youngsters early.
There goes the year - zipping past! Doesnt seem that long ago when we flogged Brisbane and were red hot. To use the old cliche a week is a long time in footy and 6 weeks is a bloody long time.
We have gone backwards big time in the last 4-5 weeks. Last year we finished the season with a big win in Canberra and fought it out in the elimination final. This year we got worse an worse in the last 4-5 weeks and today was an absolute flogging.
We only won 1.5 out of the last 6 games! An embarassing way to end the season! Can you believe we had THREE goal kickers today!!!! only three. If the match comittee dont realise we have problems with our forward structure after that effort then we will NEVER improve.
Some questions for Woosh and the rest of the selectors;
1. why play unfit players like Embers (who still tried hard), and McIntosh.
2. can we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE accept that our forward structure is NOT good!!! We rely on the midfield to kick the goals and if the mf is down we have no forwards to compete and kick a score. Goals today in our most important match of the year;
- Cousins - MIDFIELDER 3 goals
- Gardiner - RUCKMAN, temporary forward 3 goals
- Embley - midfield/half forward, UNFIT, 2 goals.
We need to do something differently and if the coaches dont recognise this then I can only say WHAT THE?????
3. what happened to the picking players on form!!!!!!!!!!! We didnt do this through out the year, otherwise players like Lynch, Collica, Wooden would have got more of a game......
4. why do we have to out so much pressure on Phil Matera to win games for us!!!!! Perhaps a tall marking forward (Radical suggestion :rolleyes: ) would be a good idea???
AARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bear in mind this is me venting my frustrations at the way we capitulated in the last part of the season. Regardless I'll be there next year flying the flag for the Eagles.
Spleen venting time, i think.
What an utterly insipid effort that was.
The thing which makes it all the more depressing is it wasn't another v St Kilda- our players had a go, some even played very well. Our coaching staff, on the other hand, didn't give us a chance to win this game. Our team selection were idiotic, our gameplan shaky, and on the day, we simply didn't make any adjustments. This is the first game in two years where I have really sincerely felt like our coaching staff have made complete idiots of themselves.
Key points of bitching.
1.) Gardiner!! Why oh ****ing why wouldn't you play him in the ruck?!?! Having Gardiner on the ground is not some sort of lucky charm which can win us games- if he isn't played where he can be of value, we didn't have a hope. The thing which just boggles my mind is that for four quarters, Worsfold didn't take the chance and make a move. You would have thought that after half time we would have at least rolled the dice and sent him into the ruck. I simply don't buy the argument about him not being fit- he was good enough up forward to suggest he'd be at least worth a go in the ruck. Yes there might have been a greater chance of him getting hurt, but bloody hell, if as a coach you're not going to take a risk to win an elimination final, then how can you expect your players to? When our players ran out onto the ground in the fourth, and Gardiner went to the forward line again, I came as close as I ever have been to attacking the tv. For all his huffing and puffing at 3 quarter time, the failure to try Gardiner in the ruck even then, shows that Woosh wasn't really that interested in winning this game.
2.) McIntosh. Was played for reasons of sentiment, on top of an insipid effort last week. Was shuffled from Carey to Stevens like an embarassing friend you try and hide at parties. He shouldn't have been selected, and once it was clear he was getting towelled, he should have been benched or pushed forward, so a certain big, scary looking #1 could go into the ruck. Frankly, this struck as a bit of Worsfold not wanting to do a Malthouse and leave out a team stalwart.
3.) Lynch. Ye gods, but we could have used him out there today. Should have got a guernsey ahead of Haynes, McIntosh or Selwood, Sierakowski. Would have given us a target up forward, and an additional tall defender.
4.) Judd. No complaints about his effort, but once again, the coaches deserve to hang their heads. Did they not expect him to be tagged?!?! Halfway through the game, you would have thought that they would have shifted him forward and tried to get some goals out of him- But again, no move was made.
5.) Kick ins.
We started this game with Phil Read doing our kick ins- who would be about my 21st or 22nd choice of a player to trust with these duties. We coughed it up again and again, and failed to break the adelaide wall. Without harping on, a certain big scary looking ****er who played WAFL this weekend can kick it 70m, you know...
6.) Selwood- ahem, youth policy a tiny bit over the top here. Selwood had a go, but was clearly got stage fright- coughing the ball up on numerous occasions. Wherefore Selwood and Chambers?
7.) Matera/Sampi. With Matera getting towelled, why on earth didn't we make a move and put Sampi forward. I realise he had some value in defence, but you don't win games with one of your best goal kickers playing in defence.
If i had to pinpoint the problem, it was as if our coaching staff had trouble treating this as a final. Gardiner was used as if we were saving him for next week, and some people who didn't really deserve to be out there were selected. We started this game with Cox in the ruck and Embley on the bench- from the start, it didn't look as though we were serious. Its an elimination final,
How on earth could that be?
I'm ****ing depressed at the moment. Full credit to the lads who had a go, congratulations to Adelaide, and I hope certain people get a clue over the off season.
Originally posted by drexel
Worsfold has payed for not playing youngsters early.
I disagree on Brauny as he has been amazing in the last 3-4 weeks.
But Woosh and the other coaches did not play young guys on form early in the year.
Another comment - we dont have a CLUE getting the ball out from kickins. There is no structure, no targets, no leads. Who are we supposed to kick it to!!!! Adelaide today took it away too easily and we had no idea how to clear it efficiently....
BACKLINE IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM TO DISCUSS.
The other issue is strong/marking players in midfield.
Cousins,Braun,Kerr,Fletcher, Read is too many midgets for an AFL midfield.
Originally posted by Mead
Spleen venting time, i think.
What an utterly insipid effort that was.
The thing which makes it all the more depressing is it wasn't another v St Kilda- our players had a go, some even played very well. Our coaching staff, on the other hand, didn't give us a chance to win this game. Our team selection were idiotic, our gameplan shaky, and on the day, we simply didn't make any adjustments. This is the first game in two years where I have really sincerely felt like our coaching staff have made complete idiots of themselves.
Key points of bitching.
1.) Gardiner!! Why oh ****ing why wouldn't you play him in the ruck?!?! Having Gardiner on the ground is not some sort of lucky charm which can win us games- if he isn't played where he can be of value, we didn't have a hope. The thing which just boggles my mind is that for four quarters, Worsfold didn't take the chance and make a move. You would have thought that after half time we would have at least rolled the dice and sent him into the ruck. I simply don't buy the argument about him not being fit- he was good enough up forward to suggest he'd be at least worth a go in the ruck. Yes there might have been a greater chance of him getting hurt, but bloody hell, if as a coach you're not going to take a risk to win an elimination final, then how can you expect your players to? When our players ran out onto the ground in the fourth, and Gardiner went to the forward line again, I came as close as I ever have been to attacking the tv. For all his huffing and puffing at 3 quarter time, the failure to try Gardiner in the ruck even then, shows that Woosh wasn't really that interested in winning this game.
2.) McIntosh. Was played for reasons of sentiment, on top of an insipid effort last week. Was shuffled from Carey to Stevens like an embarassing friend you try and hide at parties. He shouldn't have been selected, and once it was clear he was getting towelled, he should have been benched or pushed forward, so a certain big, scary looking #1 could go into the ruck. Frankly, this struck as a bit of Worsfold not wanting to do a Malthouse and leave out a team stalwart.
3.) Lynch. Ye gods, but we could have used him out there today. Should have got a guernsey ahead of Haynes, McIntosh or Selwood, Sierakowski. Would have given us a target up forward, and an additional tall defender.
4.) Judd. No complaints about his effort, but once again, the coaches deserve to hang their heads. Did they not expect him to be tagged?!?! Halfway through the game, you would have thought that they would have shifted him forward and tried to get some goals out of him- But again, no move was made.
5.) Kick ins.
We started this game with Phil Read doing our kick ins- who would be about my 21st or 22nd choice of a player to trust with these duties. We coughed it up again and again, and failed to break the adelaide wall. Without harping on, a certain big scary looking ****er who played WAFL this weekend can kick it 70m, you know...
6.) Selwood- ahem, youth policy a tiny bit over the top here. Selwood had a go, but was clearly got stage fright- coughing the ball up on numerous occasions. Wherefore Selwood and Chambers?
7.) Matera/Sampi. With Matera getting towelled, why on earth didn't we make a move and put Sampi forward. I realise he had some value in defence, but you don't win games with one of your best goal kickers playing in defence.
If i had to pinpoint the problem, it was as if our coaching staff had trouble treating this as a final. Gardiner was used as if we were saving him for next week, and some people who didn't really deserve to be out there were selected. We started this game with Cox in the ruck and Embley on the bench- from the start, it didn't look as though we were serious. Its an elimination final,
How on earth could that be?
I'm ****ing depressed at the moment. Full credit to the lads who had a go, congratulations to Adelaide, and I hope certain people get a clue over the off season.
Excellent vent Mead. I agree with all of these points! Key problems being poor team selection and failure to do anything, ANYTHING!!!! to throw the team around a bit. Blind Freddy could see we need Gardy in the ruck, yet the guys responsible for coaching the team couldnt see it. Lynch has been absolutely shafted this year. He can play forward or back and pinch hit in the ruck. Milli was shocking today and it was not a good way for an otherwise brilliant career to end. Wooden offer speed, better skills than a lot of others out there today and he will tackle.....I just want to echo your last comment - I too am severely depressed, but want to praise those few that had a go today :(
steve_rat
6 Sep 2003, 19:33
ok since you guys have said your stuff i'll just say my stuff..
mcintosh - why did he play?? embarassing. utterly embarassing.. but for what it's worth.. sierakowski did a good job on carey in the last quarter.. although we need youth
kick ins - leads were not coming... people were just standing there... and the kickerinner was forced to kick long to cox.. usually outnumbered. no chance..
i actualliy believe that our defence wasn't that bad... i thought it did ok.. where we really struggled was our forward line, we get it to the midfield and then no one to kick to and adelaide just keep rebounding, putting enormous pressure on the backline... we need a better forward structure.. try some people that can mark.. (how many dropped sitters were there today??!!?)
well that ends our campaign but at least one positive comes out of this loss... freo lost too. which i know is dirty but seriously.. if freo had won, they would be bragging about it for the next 6 months, and at least our loss was away...
ok that would be thy end
steve rat
Juddyzthebest
6 Sep 2003, 19:56
You looked at the way Adelaide were getting it out of the backline and you compared it to how we went about doing it and youd think that we were playing in the frigen colts or little league or something. Nobody was making leads! Just because cox is tall doesnt mean hes gunna mark it when he has like two players on him ..... far out. Woosha really needs to rethink hes coaching decisions and the selectors need help...
Not putting wooden in for the young kid selwood...mistake
Not playing embers from the beginning..mistake
Keeping juddy in the centre when he was getting tagged to hell (as per usual)...mistake
McIntosh even on the field...mistake ( or at least put him in the forward line)
and the biggest one of all was not having Gardy in the ruck...HUGE MISTAKE. So he may not have been 100% but please just give him a go up there. Even in the last q when the game was all over and done with y didnt he just put him there, just to make the loss half decent. Its the end of the season so it wouldnt be like they were risking him.
If the boys wanna play in some serious finals campaigns then the coaching/selection staff better re-think their steps, because they are going the wrong way about it.
eagleskickass
6 Sep 2003, 20:00
Great to see us knowing who was to kick in this week, pity they had stuff all idea what to do with it.
great to see Gards will be fit to ruck next week, pity we needed him to be given a go this week.
Was nice to see how giving we were, letting Adelaide have all those clearances:) Great to see our wingmen being started at half back to try combat that, oh thats right, i didnt see that.
great to see our forward line go man on man on kickouts again and again and again, they followed coaching instructions obviously...
Notice a trend? I sure do...
We lost less games than last year, we have a better squad than last year, we have developed players nicely this year. We kicked the most points in the AFL. Some were talking freely about a top two position and even a flag only a few weeks ago.
We have been decimated by injuries. Even today both Green and Glass were gone by half time. Kerr, Cuz, Embers, Fido, Gardy, Haynes, Cox, Chick, Milli and Fletcher all played with patched up injuries. Most of the rest had battered bodies from the Freo game. They also knew that if we won we had to face Brisbane or the Pies on the road still carrying the bag of injuries. The mental and physical challenge for such a young group of players was always going to be too much. Same for Freo.
Woosha has developed a top class squad which will improve next season. The team selection can't please everyone but I think has been overall very good, given the injury situation.
From todays game I thought Cuz was outstanding and the following fought it out very well
Kerr
Gardy
Fletcher
Cox
Hunter
Glass
Chick
Banfield
Siera (although I would still delist him)
Milli (tried all day but unfortunately should have retired last season)
Judd
Braun
Sampi
Haynes (nervous as he was)
Jones
Embley
Fido (although clearly hampered with a thigh injury)
Staker, Selwood got good finals experience and will become good players.
I'm proud of the Eagles this season. I remember well the two years of KJ and this is brilliant in comparison.
daddy_4_eyes
6 Sep 2003, 21:26
For the first time in his footballing career, Woosha flinched. When he should have made the gutsy decision and taken a few risks, he played it safe with team selections, gameplan, etc. We were like one of those teams down by 10 pts who flood the backline to minimise the loss, rather than go for the win.
Having said that, we don't know whats going through the coaching staff's heads. I imagine Woosha had sound logic behind his decisions. Give the man a bit of slack, he took us from wooden spoon favourites at the start of 2002, to a team that spent a good portion of 2003 in the top 2. If it wasn't for the injuries and subsequent loss of confidence (it effects coaches too), I'm sure we would have finished the season a lot better.
larrikin
6 Sep 2003, 21:35
Originally posted by Mead
1.) Gardiner!! Why oh ****ing why wouldn't you play him in the ruck?!?! Having Gardiner on the ground is not some sort of lucky charm which can win us games- if he isn't played where he can be of value, we didn't have a hope. The thing which just boggles my mind is that for four quarters, Worsfold didn't take the chance and make a move. You would have thought that after half time we would have at least rolled the dice and sent him into the ruck. I simply don't buy the argument about him not being fit- he was good enough up forward to suggest he'd be at least worth a go in the ruck. Yes there might have been a greater chance of him getting hurt, but bloody hell, if as a coach you're not going to take a risk to win an elimination final, then how can you expect your players to? When our players ran out onto the ground in the fourth, and Gardiner went to the forward line again, I came as close as I ever have been to attacking the tv. For all his huffing and puffing at 3 quarter time, the failure to try Gardiner in the ruck even then, shows that Woosh wasn't really that interested in winning this game.
I've taken the opposite approach on this one. we were lucky to get him on the park at all, and there was no way he was ever going to ruck a full game. It's not about saving him for next week, he physically was not up to rucking, or running much more than 30m at a time as a matter of fact.
2.) McIntosh. Was played for reasons of sentiment, on top of an insipid effort last week. Was shuffled from Carey to Stevens like an embarassing friend you try and hide at parties. He shouldn't have been selected, and once it was clear he was getting towelled, he should have been benched or pushed forward, so a certain big, scary looking #1 could go into the ruck. Frankly, this struck as a bit of Worsfold not wanting to do a Malthouse and leave out a team stalwart.
I agree on most points, but I think he was picked due to lack of options rather than sentiment.
5.) Kick ins.
We started this game with Phil Read doing our kick ins- who would be about my 21st or 22nd choice of a player to trust with these duties. We coughed it up again and again, and failed to break the adelaide wall. Without harping on, a certain big scary looking ****er who played WAFL this weekend can kick it 70m, you know...
Actually, Read is one nof the guys I would trust with that long kick. Unfortunately his penetration does not match Wirra's, but his main problem today was a lack of target to kick to. Our kick ins were disgraceful, but every possesion from that region was confronted with similar problems. Adelaide made it look like they had an extra three players on the field all day (maybe we should've asked for a head count)
6.) Selwood- ahem, youth policy a tiny bit over the top here. Selwood had a go, but was clearly got stage fright- coughing the ball up on numerous occasions. Wherefore Selwood and Chambers?
Agreed, Selwood was so far out of his depth it wasn't funny. He may be training the house down but surely Josh Wooden or Callum Chambers could've added a spark to that team today.
As bitterly disappointed that our season, which promises so much in the first 12 rounds, ended today the way it did - I will never complain about making the finals.
I learnt this lesson after two years with Judgey and particularly on days like today I never want to forget it.
We were outclassed. Some selections puzzled me. Injuries to key players took their toll and we never recovered from them to get our form back on track.
We over-achieved in rounds 1 - 12 with some golden football and our expectation got ahead of us. I guess now we just hope we're building towards something more than elimination finals in 2004 and beyond.
Thanks for the year boys - some great games and memories - trade and draft well and pull their pants down in 2004.
< / philosophical end of season rant>
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
For the first time in his footballing career, Woosha flinched. When he should have made the gutsy decision and taken a few risks, he played it safe with team selections, gameplan, etc. We were like one of those teams down by 10 pts who flood the backline to minimise the loss, rather than go for the win.
Said it all year - he's predictable and needs some lessons from Sheedy on lateral thinking. FFS our setup hasn't given us enough goals for weeks, and yet we still persisted with it to the embarassing end.
Other than Wilson we only have 1 proven big goal-kicking forward on our list. WHY WASN'T LYNCH TRIED AT ALL THIS SEASON? :mad:
Streaker
7 Sep 2003, 01:35
We lost this game at the selection table.
We were comprehesively and embarassingly defeated today, another entry into our sad looking post '94 finals history. There were way to many passengers this week, and I almost got a sense the team really didn't think they stood a chance.
On specifics from this thread:
McIntosh should not have been out there. I actually was half hoping he'd be suspended to take the decision to leave him out of the side away from the selection committee. To be honest I thought the writing was on the wall early in the season.
Selwood was probably out of his depth for a second-gamer. Actually I would have preferred to give Jeremy Humm a run this week as I'm not really sold on Chambers atm. Selwood might well have the talent, but that was the ultimate deep end.
On the Gardiner question, the real question isn't why wasn't he rucking (if he wasn't up to it he wasn't up to it), but since he couldn't ruck was he the best option for a key forward post? For instance if Lynch could have been judeged a better potential FF/CHF than Gardy today, it would have been better to have him out there. In the end though Gardy kicked three from limited opportunities, so he justified his selection.
A couple of other players have probably played a bit more than they should have this year. Phil Read for instance was probably not the best option although he was OK today. Really though only Brauny played himself out of a hole this year.
On Quinten Lynch, I remember a promising ruckman called Ryan Turnbull playing 8-10 games in 1991 then not coming out at all in 1992. He then became a regular in 1993. Not getting a run this year doesn't mean he's not a chance to make it with the Eagles (if he turns out at Turnbull's level I'd be quite happy). I think with McIntosh gone we have a much higher chance of Lynch getting a run next year. I can't see him traded as I don't think he would have sufficient trade value at the moment.
Ultimately the one thing that can be taken from this weekend's Elimination Finals is that a hard fought Western Derby is not a great lead up to the finals - frankly I'd rather travel to Canberra again than play a round 22 derby. Both us and Freo were as flat as we've been all year and our opponents capitalised on that.
Originally posted by larrikin
I've taken the opposite approach on this one. we were lucky to get him on the park at all, and there was no way he was ever going to ruck a full game. It's not about saving him for next week, he physically was not up to rucking, or running much more than 30m at a time as a matter of fact.
I suppose noone knows how bad things were- Gardie wrote an article in tomorrows' Slime in which he says that the injury stopped him from rucking.
The thing is, Clarke v Cox = a loss for us every time. Thats not a reflection on Cox, its just one blue ribbon, brilliant, second best ruckman in the league against an young'un without the body strength to dominate the ruck at this stage in his career. And if we lose in the ruck, we lose the game, every time. There is absolutely no way we could have won this game with that matchup persisting.
Even if Gardiner wasn't 100%, I still think we could have brought him in for the centre bounces, then had him backtrack to the forward line. Fairly simple tactic, but one which didn't apparently occur to our coaching staff.
Originally posted by Mr Q
Ultimately the one thing that can be taken from this weekend's Elimination Finals is that a hard fought Western Derby is not a great lead up to the finals - frankly I'd rather travel to Canberra again than play a round 22 derby. Both us and Freo were as flat as we've been all year and our opponents capitalised on that. I wonder about this statement. I mean, playing local rival and minor premier Port Adelaide didn't exactly prove to be a kick and giggle affair for Adelaide either.
I'm going to show faith in the coaches/selection crew here and say that if Gardy had any chance of playing in the ruck, he would of.
Those who say he didn't role the dice, and play him in the ruck, nothing to lose are not looking at the bigger picture. We roled the dice by playing him. It's obvious with Siera in the team, they never intended to ruck Gardy.
rant over
thegur
Originally posted by drexel
Braun, Jones... once again useless under pressure. Past their peak.
IMO you are miles off the mark with this statement. Braun and Jones have been extremely good for us all season. Brauny is approaching his 99 form which saw him finish runner up in the B&F and if memory serves me right, he actually lost on a countback to McKenna? Braun is back and IMO is once again an integral part of our midfield.
Jones has by far and away the best hands in our side. He will mark anything if it is remotely near him. He can kick goals, he can play forward and provide an ACTUAL target and he can also play in the midfield and tag.
Both are important players at WC IMO.
Voice of Reason
7 Sep 2003, 10:08
Originally posted by drexel
Braun, Jones... once again useless under pressure. Past their peak.
Cobblers. Braun (who I have criticised in the past) has been fantastic for the last two months. Jones is the only player we have who consistently leads and marks well, had to do an Embley impersonation when he went down and still managed to play a strong part in the team's success. Yes, he didn't have a good Derby.
If Gardiner was fit to ruck, he would have rucked. I think the coaching staff may be aware that he's a good ruckman. If we can't trust Cox to ruck, then trade him (which incidentally I would, given his value to other teams and my faith in Seaby to support Gardy next year).
We don't know how injured our players are. I strongly suspect that mentally we just wanted the season to end. A trip to Brisbane or the MCG next week wasn't appealing.
What is of concern is that I don't know who our best side is any more and I suspect that the coaching staff don't either.
AFL isn't an easy route - you don't just finish 14th then automatically move up the ladder to a guaranteed Premiership every 16 years, even with the draft and salary cap. Woosha's now had 2 8th place finishes, which he wouldn't be happy with. Sometimes you have to move backwards in order to go forwards - and we need to develop players on our list who can mark in the forward and defensive 50s. I hope the coaching staff know who they are.
maccas_no1
7 Sep 2003, 11:29
Sorry West Coast but someone had to go, be proud of your team and look forward to next season at full strength the Eagles are a very good and dangerous side, you have a great coach also!!!!!
Enjoy your summer:D :D
RE:Jones and Braun
Jones is a good tagger and i would keep him only in midfield and half-back. He's too slow up forward and can't kick. Also we need his marking through the midfield.
Braun: also a good player but your joking if you think you can get away with 6 jockeys in midfield.
Cousins
Kerr
Fletcher
Read
Braun
Read
(that's a Neesham style Dockers set-up from 5 years ago)
IMO that is why the backline struggles to hit targets up the ground. Braun is good but at 25 years old. he should have stood up yesterday and didn't. so for the good of the team, we should trade.
Braun and 1st Pick for Hay is a very good deal for us and Hawthorn.
Braun is fast becoming one of our most important players, I don't know why there's all this talk of trading him.
carneagles
7 Sep 2003, 15:58
I have had a night to sleep on my disappointment - I still can't believe the season is over. Bang, just like that.
The more I think about it, the more I think that the coaching intention to win yesterday's game quite possibly wasn't there. Even though we desperately needed first use, they simply weren't prepared to risk Gardiner sustaining an injury that could have stuffed his preseason, or even worse his 2004. And you have to wonder why McIntosh got a game after last week.
On the other hand, if the coaching staff went into the game expecting our season to end in 3 hours, why not throw Selwood in? Seaby? Give 'em a taste of the big stage?
I suspect that the Eagles hierarchy wanted a bob each way - if they win, tops, but they're not going to go all-out to get one.
The fact is, we just weren't going to do it this year. We have been very susceptible to midfield physical pressure, holding the ball up to allow blokes to flood back. Once Gardiner went down and we lost consistent first use, our scoring dried up completely. We were found out.
PS: Braun's got a heart like Phar Lap. You can't knock him for not standing up yesterday when he's been doing it for weeks. Ditto Jones.
It doesn't take long for all the negativity to come spewing forth.
1. If Gardiner had been capable of rucking, he would have. And to suggest he be used at only the centre bounces is rediculous - the centre bounce is where all the damage occurs to ruckmen! I thought he showed tremendous courage to even be out there.
2. We had trouble bringing the ball in because Wirra wasn't there!He is our main avenue for kickins.
3. I have no problem in giving youngsters a little finals experience (i.e Adam Sellwood). Remember last year when McDougall and Munro were given games? Our season was basically shot after the PA game, so why not give the kids a go. After that game we were never a premiership contender.
4. Ash deserved to play in his last final.
5. Brauny and Jones have been excellent in the really tough games. No way should either of them be trade bait.
Lynch should go before either of them. (If anyone would have the hack !:)
GoEagles
9 Sep 2003, 01:21
Warning: I've whipped up this post in about half an hour without proof reading it or thinking things through. It will come out harsh and probably get up the goat of quite a few people. But these are my suggestions & comments on how this great club of ours can move forward.
I was very suprised with the Eagles selections. As much as I loved watching McIntosh he should have retired after the Derby. That was his last hurrah. David Sierakowski should not have played too. He is not in our long term plans and I doubt anyone would have him listed in our 22 for our next Grand Final. Very unlucky were Josh Wooden (who was not injured - he played for Subiaco yesterday) and Quinten Lynch.
Gardiner must have been totally buggered if he could do the centre ruck knocks for any periods of the game. Maybe it would have been better to blood Seeby and get Gardiner fresh for next year.
Kasey Green had a Barry Crocker (shocker) of a final, David Haynes was good without being great and poor Daniel Kerr had a day he'd rather forget.
Once again a number of players haven't been able to step up to consistant AFL football this year. Hello Kane Munro, Jeremy Humm.
At the end of the day we were defeated by a better side who I rated as top 4 material when I made my selections at the start of the season. The lesson learnt was there is no point going banana's when your team is in the top 2 for half the season, when it isn't peaking towards the finals. Unfortunately for us, we peaked then went on a downward spiral after the Port Adelaide match.
Very harsh on Kasey as he was injured in the first quarter and spent the rest of the game on the bench!
without a doubt we need to look at our backline next year but my question is who is in charge of it?
as far as i know we have no full time backline coach and with millis retirement and jako up forward we have no experience back there. we need to look at our off field personal as well as the players in the months to come.
Originally posted by noodle
without a doubt we need to look at our backline next year but my question is who is in charge of it?
as far as i know we have no full time backline coach and with millis retirement and jako up forward we have no experience back there. we need to look at our off field personal as well as the players in the months to come.
On that point who is charge of the forward line? - They should be sacked.
Originally posted by Jabber
On that point who is charge of the forward line? - They should be sacked.
I think it is Rob Wiley.
Originally posted by Sera
I think it is Rob Wiley.
He must have something against guys taller than him :D
eagleskickass
9 Sep 2003, 18:26
I thought it went something like this?
Forwards = Rob Wiley
Midfield = Sumich
Defense = Tony Micale
Originally posted by Jabber
He must have something against guys taller than him :D
Yeah, maybe. In any event, having the #1 offense is just not acceptable, sack him now!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Originally posted by Sera
Yeah, maybe. In any event, having the #1 offense is just not acceptable, sack him now!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
The #1 offense became crap after about round 12 when everyone had learnt how to shut it down.
We had a huge margin by halfway throught the season, so still ending up as #1 offense is no great achievement.
Woosha uses the #1 offence stat all the time when questioned about why we aren't kicking goals, he still doesn't get it though. It worked then, it won't work again in it's current format.
It's hard to judge offense when you only manage 30 inside 50's. And most of the time you let the opposition flood back.
Defense and midfield went backwards this year.
Originally posted by drexel
Defense and midfield went backwards this year.
No way. Midfield has come along in leaps and bounds. We are one of the best in the AFL. Malthouse even went as far to say we were the best because we were different. As for defense, it has improved as well. We are in the top half for defense while last year we were in the bottom half. Also, small forwards didn't hurt us as much this year as last year. Our main problem now is KP defenders.
no1bankteller
12 Sep 2003, 17:41
All I have sent this message to Woosha on 2nd of September and I still standby what I said
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John
Congratulations on another amazing season at the helm of the Eagles.
I am a Victorian supporter of the Eagles and as such I am not all too familiar with the WAFL performance of non-regular Eagle players. My best guide to this is The West website.
What does interest me is that Quentin Lynch and Ashley Hansen have not had a single game for the Eagles this year despite, on paper, some very good performances within the WAFL and yet players such as Sirakowski (excuse my spelling) and Wilson have been recalled on number of occasions and have performed below expectation. I am a big fan of Wilson's, however I do think his body is not allowing him to perform to standards he has previously set and unfortunately I believe that this is his last season with the Eagles. Sirakowski in my opinion should have retired last season, and I hope he does so this season. Whilst I am being harsh on Sirakowski I just do not think he can regularly perform at a high level and his spot should be handed over to a younger player.
What I hope is that the Eagles take a risky yet long term beneficial move and promote either Lynch or Hansen for the game against Adelaide. This move would allow them to learn on the big stage. If my memory serves me correctly Lynch was one of our better players in both the game against North Melbourne (round 22) and our final against Essendon last year and has shown the mental toughness to handle the big games.
I hope that my letter is not out of line and I wish you and the team the very best luck for the game against Adelaide.
Cheers Denis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other comments:
I do not think that we need to trade for Matthew Richardson as he is too inconsistent and his attitude is poor.
Instead next year I think that our spine should have:
McDougall at FF with time can become another Matthew Lloyd - assuming he hits the weights. Big call I know but this kid is seriously tallented.
Lynch at CHF very intelligent player with a build of a superhero, can take the physical pressure of playing at CHF and not too slow.
Jackovich at CHB or maybe on a flank if three talls are played. (Coaching staff need to make sure he does not get dragged to a full back line as he can be exploited for pace.)
Gasper CHB in training - he is a far better player when he is being led to the ball instead of having to create for himself, a booming kick can help with transition. The other benefit is that he may be subject to less injuries as he will be able to run in straight lines without having a pack collapsing on top of him.
Glass FB though may lack pace and strength.
If Glass does not work out at full back then Staker should be given the job. I think he is skilful, smart and athletic enough to do the job provided he bulks up more and works hard on his strength. He reminds me of a young Silvagni LETS HOPE!)
Players that should be de-listed;
Carroll (out of depth, bad decision making and a step to slow)
Adkins nobody will want a weak speadster with bad foot skills.
Wilson for reasons above.
Players to trade:
Braun - love his guts and toughness but he is the weak midfielder of our group and his kicks lack penetration. Yet he may have significant trade value within the market.
Morrison - good skills and an intelligent player however he lacks accountability and may be better suited for a change in environment.
Chambers - has value in the market place, however is a receiver and not a hard at it ball player.
Munro - not sure if he has any trade value but we should just get rid of him to save money. He is still slimmer then a point post, despite spending some 4 years in the league and hates any physical contact. His decision making is suspect.
Wooden - this is a tough call but he does disappear in big games, see game a aginst Brisbane in 2002 when Ackermanis publicly spoke out that he was going to spank him and spank him he did. He is also turnover prone and slightly weak.
Positional Changes
Gasper from CHF to CHB for reasons mentioned above.
Chick - back pocket or back flank.
Haynes from FF to Half Forward Flank or maybe to be radical to the wing.
Hunter - should be a permanent back man.
Embley to become a permanent tall attacking midfielder.
Collica to be brought back into the back line. Plays tall, hard though must not be played on extra quick defenders.
Sellwood to become a tagger. The kid has talent.
Players I am undecided on:
Humm - love his heart and courage but is he just more of the same. Maybe worth another chance.
Wirrpunda - great talent, not sure if he has the mongrel in him and his trade value could be very high. Who does the kick ins if he goes? Who carries the ball through the lines if he leaves?
Well I am interested what every one else thinks about my blahhhhhhhh.
Cheers
Voice of Reason
14 Sep 2003, 23:56
Originally posted by no1bankteller
All I have sent this message to Woosha on 2nd of September and I still standby what I said
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John
Congratulations on another amazing season at the helm of the Eagles.
I am a Victorian supporter of the Eagles and as such I am not all too familiar with the WAFL performance of non-regular Eagle players. My best guide to this is The West website.
What does interest me is that Quentin Lynch and Ashley Hansen have not had a single game for the Eagles this year despite, on paper, some very good performances within the WAFL and yet players such as Sirakowski (excuse my spelling) and Wilson have been recalled on number of occasions and have performed below expectation. I am a big fan of Wilson's, however I do think his body is not allowing him to perform to standards he has previously set and unfortunately I believe that this is his last season with the Eagles. Sirakowski in my opinion should have retired last season, and I hope he does so this season. Whilst I am being harsh on Sirakowski I just do not think he can regularly perform at a high level and his spot should be handed over to a younger player.
What I hope is that the Eagles take a risky yet long term beneficial move and promote either Lynch or Hansen for the game against Adelaide. This move would allow them to learn on the big stage. If my memory serves me correctly Lynch was one of our better players in both the game against North Melbourne (round 22) and our final against Essendon last year and has shown the mental toughness to handle the big games.
I hope that my letter is not out of line and I wish you and the team the very best luck for the game against Adelaide.
Cheers Denis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other comments:
I do not think that we need to trade for Matthew Richardson as he is too inconsistent and his attitude is poor.
Instead next year I think that our spine should have:
McDougall at FF with time can become another Matthew Lloyd - assuming he hits the weights. Big call I know but this kid is seriously tallented.
Lynch at CHF very intelligent player with a build of a superhero, can take the physical pressure of playing at CHF and not too slow.
Jackovich at CHB or maybe on a flank if three talls are played. (Coaching staff need to make sure he does not get dragged to a full back line as he can be exploited for pace.)
Gasper CHB in training - he is a far better player when he is being led to the ball instead of having to create for himself, a booming kick can help with transition. The other benefit is that he may be subject to less injuries as he will be able to run in straight lines without having a pack collapsing on top of him.
Glass FB though may lack pace and strength.
If Glass does not work out at full back then Staker should be given the job. I think he is skilful, smart and athletic enough to do the job provided he bulks up more and works hard on his strength. He reminds me of a young Silvagni LETS HOPE!)
Players that should be de-listed;
Carroll (out of depth, bad decision making and a step to slow)
Adkins nobody will want a weak speadster with bad foot skills.
Wilson for reasons above.
Players to trade:
Braun - love his guts and toughness but he is the weak midfielder of our group and his kicks lack penetration. Yet he may have significant trade value within the market.
Morrison - good skills and an intelligent player however he lacks accountability and may be better suited for a change in environment.
Chambers - has value in the market place, however is a receiver and not a hard at it ball player.
Munro - not sure if he has any trade value but we should just get rid of him to save money. He is still slimmer then a point post, despite spending some 4 years in the league and hates any physical contact. His decision making is suspect.
Wooden - this is a tough call but he does disappear in big games, see game a aginst Brisbane in 2002 when Ackermanis publicly spoke out that he was going to spank him and spank him he did. He is also turnover prone and slightly weak.
Positional Changes
Gasper from CHF to CHB for reasons mentioned above.
Chick - back pocket or back flank.
Haynes from FF to Half Forward Flank or maybe to be radical to the wing.
Hunter - should be a permanent back man.
Embley to become a permanent tall attacking midfielder.
Collica to be brought back into the back line. Plays tall, hard though must not be played on extra quick defenders.
Sellwood to become a tagger. The kid has talent.
Players I am undecided on:
Humm - love his heart and courage but is he just more of the same. Maybe worth another chance.
Wirrpunda - great talent, not sure if he has the mongrel in him and his trade value could be very high. Who does the kick ins if he goes? Who carries the ball through the lines if he leaves?
Well I am interested what every one else thinks about my blahhhhhhhh.
Cheers
Welcome to the board Denis.
I thought most of what you said was spot on. Not sure where Lynchy's best position is, though. Might be FB in time.