View Full Version : Where we are lacking....
Black Thunder
6 Sep 2003, 19:46
I know the seasons over and everyone is dissapointed, but guys on this board are going berserk, and talking about overhauling the team, trading like it's going out of fashion, and our team now being insipid.
Let's just chill for a sec.
We are still a long in front of where we were expected us to be - we can't go from wooden spoon contendors to premiership front runners in 2 seasons. It just doesn't happen (often anyway - i know some smartass would point out it happening in 1935 or somehintg like that :p)
anyway, we are moving in the right track, and with a bit of list tweaking we will go in an even further direction.
A have a LONG LONG post brewing, but won't post that for a while, but just for now, we do need to spread the talent on our list around.
If you were asked, which players on our list could be an All-Australian next year, I'd probably say 8 - Cousins, Gardiner, Kerr, Fletcher, Judd, Matera, Embley and Wirrpunda.
I know we'd all like to think guys like Braun, Sampi, Hunter etc,. could be, but I'm talking realisitically here.
IMO a team which is expecting to be a premiership contednro the year after, would probably be looking to have a dozen guys who could be an All Australian next season.
Now the problem with the above 8 guys, is that the only defender in that group is David Wirrpunda, and being a small defender, there is only so much he can do.
Hence, we need to recruit a tall defender, and perhaps, for good measure, a small defender.
But the other problem is, that we don't have many other defenders on our list, who are going to be real topline defenders.
Green, Collica, Hunter and Glass will be solid but nothing more, McIntosh is gone, Jakovich is gone in 2 years, Carroll is crap, Lynch is untested, Sierakowski is gone. The small defenders - Banfield will be gone in 2 years, whilst Morrison and Read are limited in their capacity to cause damage.
The only other guy on our list, who I reckon could turn into a topline defender, is Travis Gaspar, and he still has hardly been used in the backline, and is very injury prone, so it's not much to base our future defence on.
At least if we had some talent coming through the ranks in our defence, there would be no need to worry, but there isn't.
Hence, we definetaly need to trade for a tall defender, and Jonathon Hay defenitaly seems to be a guy on the cards.
Whilst I reckon we should look at Ashley McGrath from Brisbane, to just sure up our defence........
Anyway, gotta go now boys and girls, so i'll just leave those thoughts with you..
i think our fb, chb. chf , ff are areas of concern , dont know if lynch, johnson, hansen, seaby , can come on . like gaspar if he could stay fit , mcdougall should improve i hope
daddy_4_eyes
6 Sep 2003, 21:42
Gaspar, McDougall, Staker and Glass can adequatly cover FB, CHB, CHF and FF. Its the lack of depth in talls thats a worry. We need Lynch, Seaby, Beeck, Hansen and Johnson to step up next year (or atleast some of them) so we have more than just the bare minimum KPP running around.
Need to trade for a tall I reckon. Hay would be nice, but more realistically maybe we could go for Livingston or Corey.
Needs:
A marking forward.
McDougall has shown a bit, but being realistic he's not going to carry the forward line on his own in 2004. Another strong marking option up their would do us wonders.
A key Defender.
No surprises here. With Milli going out and Jako no longer up to it down back we need someone to help out Glass and ???. And the ??? is the problem as their is no obvious replacement. Carroll is really not going to cut the mustard, Sierakowski is a short term option (if he;s retained) and Gaspar has only lasted about 6 games a year for us in his career, which has been spent more often in the Forward line. If we trade we need to trade for one of these. Obviously Jon Hay is a favourite for the post, although may be unlikely.
A Bullocking Midfielder.
Collingwood has Buckley and Licuria, Brisbane Voss, Adelaide Riccuito, Port and Essendon just about all of them. We have Phil Read?? Seriously, this need has been exposed in the last 6 weeks of the season. No physically intimidating enforcer in the middle. Don't know where we'd get one but we need one as our midfield has been pointed out as being "small". The problem we see here is, if plan A (attack! attack!!) doesn't work, we're stuffed.
A versatile small defender.
Wirra, God bless him hope he stays, is the premier rebounder out of defence and a key playmaker from kick-ins etc. If he gets his preseason right he could add to our midfield run as well. He is not however a tight checking defender. Could do with one of those. People talk of Roger Hayden from the filth as a model for this role as he has played well on Fido. As a smokey, what do you reckon about Leon Davis? (I said smokey).
Quality & Depth.
Our injuries showed our depth aint what we thought it might be. As has been said our top 8 is a jump up from our next 14 and so there would be plenty of spots up for grabs in our best 22. Good recruiting and the natural maturing process should help us out here.
daddy_4_eyes
7 Sep 2003, 00:15
llosis:
A marking forward
Need to persist with McDougall and/or Gaspar. Both have been in the system long enough to be reliable tall forwards. They don't necessarily have to be a Lloyd or a Tredrea, just so long as they provide an alternative to Fido.
A Bullocking Midfielder
I think Chick has been fantastic in this department, and Embley is no slouch either. Hunter and Read can both be very hard at it too.
A versatile small defender.
Collica, Green, Read and Wirrpunda should be able to fill this role, I don't know why Woosha persists with Banfield, Braun, Humm and Wooden (pinochio is a tagger, not a small defender).
Quality & Depth.
Gotta agree. Too few players contribute to the team. We often have 5-6 players who did bugger all all game, which makes it impossible to keep the 'stars' fresh. Don't know if we lack depth, just that Woosha persists with the same group of players to fill the 16-22 spots instead of giving someone else a crack.
eagleskickass
7 Sep 2003, 00:41
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
llosis:
A marking forward
Need to persist with McDougall and/or Gaspar. Both have been in the system long enough to be reliable tall forwards. They don't necessarily have to be a Lloyd or a Tredrea, just so long as they provide an alternative to Fido.
A Bullocking Midfielder
I think Chick has been fantastic in this department, and Embley is no slouch either. Hunter and Read can both be very hard at it too.
A versatile small defender.
Collica, Green, Read and Wirrpunda should be able to fill this role, I don't know why Woosha persists with Banfield, Braun, Humm and Wooden (pinochio is a tagger, not a small defender).
Quality & Depth.
Gotta agree. Too few players contribute to the team. We often have 5-6 players who did bugger all all game, which makes it impossible to keep the 'stars' fresh. Don't know if we lack depth, just that Woosha persists with the same group of players to fill the 16-22 spots instead of giving someone else a crack.
Pretty right except we cant rely on Gaspar as our future, he is just too injury prone to organise something solely around him. We have players like Lynch, Staker, Johnson, beeck who might be able to do it if he cant but only Lynch is proven and Staker shows promise, others we arent certain of. So basically theres nothing we MUSt target in the off-season as such, we HAVE the players on the list to develop, its more about trying to improve what we have and gain some more depth.
Streaker
7 Sep 2003, 01:31
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
A marking forward
Need to persist with McDougall and/or Gaspar.
Hansen would probably be worth a shot given another pre-season. Johnson could also suprise. I see Gaspar filling the role of CHB rather than CHF and along with Lynch we could have one of the most versatile spines in the AFL
B............Glass
CHB...Lynch/Gaspar
C.....Embley/Cousins/Chick/Fletcher/Judd/Kerr and any number of other players
CHF....Hansen/Johnson/Staker
F........McDougall
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
A Bullocking Midfielder
I think Chick has been fantastic in this department, and Embley is no slouch either. Hunter and Read can both be very hard at it too.
Agree totally except that we also need Chick for his tagging abilities in shutting down players such as Pavlich and Riccuito.
Hunter is too valuable down back on the third tall and Read is too small height wise.
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
A versatile small defender.
Collica, Green, Read and Wirrpunda should be able to fill this role, I don't know why Woosha persists with Banfield, Braun, Humm and Wooden (pinochio is a tagger, not a small defender).
Green, Selwood and maybe Chambers could be best suited to this role, although they are not exactly small they are quick and versatile and would supply run out of the backline.
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
Quality & Depth.
Gotta agree. Too few players contribute to the team. We often have 5-6 players who did bugger all all game, which makes it impossible to keep the 'stars' fresh. Don't know if we lack depth, just that Woosha persists with the same group of players to fill the 16-22 spots instead of giving someone else a crack.
I think we have the quality and the depth although it hasn't developed to its full potential just yet. Another pre-season will see a few more of our players develop.
I also disagree with those who think that Jonathon Hay is the answer for us. I would rather see us retain our top 2 picks and get the best players we can.
Black Thunder
7 Sep 2003, 02:52
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
[B]
A versatile small defender.
Collica, Green, Read and Wirrpunda should be able to fill this role, I don't know why Woosha persists with Banfield, Braun, Humm and Wooden (pinochio is a tagger, not a small defender).
Wirrpunda is one, but you'd preferably like too.
Green, Read and Collica may be gems in Eagle eyes, but if you look at it realistically they're solid defenders. Nothing more.
We need to spead our talent across the field.
All our talent is in the forwards - Matera, Sampi, Embley, Staker, McDougall - or the midfield - Cousins, Judd, Gardiner, Cox, Kerr, Fletcher -, with very little downback - Wirrpunda. And only Gaspar, who has played very little AFL footy down there.
You just can't rely on that lack of talent to survive in your defence.
Black Thunder
7 Sep 2003, 02:54
Originally posted by West Coast Stre
I also disagree with those who think that Jonathon Hay is the answer for us. I would rather see us retain our top 2 picks and get the best players we can.
but who else can we rely on.
these our all tall back options for the future ATM.
Glass - never be nothing more than solid, who'll win 50% of his battles.
Carroll - enough said.
Sierakowki - gone in 2 years max.
Jakovich - plays forward
McIntosh - gone
Gaspar - played very little afl footy down back and very injury prone.
you just can't rely on that IMO?????
Streaker
7 Sep 2003, 03:19
Originally posted by Black Thunder
but who else can we rely on.
Not Hay that is for sure as he isn't even at our club. I seriously doubt that Hawthorn will let him go before thay let others go.
Originally posted by Black Thunder
these our all tall back options for the future ATM.
Glass - never be nothing more than solid, who'll win 50% of his battles.
Carroll - enough said.
Sierakowki - gone in 2 years max.
Jakovich - plays forward
McIntosh - gone
Gaspar - played very little afl footy down back and very injury prone.
you just can't rely on that IMO?????
I think we have seen the coming of age for Glass. The corner has been turned and he will be our Full Back for years to come.
Gaspar will get over his injuries, just as Wirrpunda did and will be something special
Lynch/Johnson/Hansen and maybe even Beeck might be better options than trading a high pick for Hay
Carroll should be gone but he may be held on to if we can't get a decent trade for Cox/Haynes/Wooden/Green/wirrpunda
Siera will almost certainly be gone now.
Jako should retire but might be kept for a backup
McIntosh is gone.
Originally posted by Black Thunder
We are still a long in front of where we were expected us to be - we can't go from wooden spoon contendors to premiership front runners in 2 seasons. It just doesn't happen (often anyway - i know some smartass would point out it happening in 1935 or somehintg like that :p)
Indeed. South Adelaide won the premiership in 1935 after finishing wooden spooners in 1934. ;)
It's no secret that we have 2 problem areas. Tall marking forwards and our defence in general. I believe our tall marking forwards are sorted, we just need to wait for them to start kicking ass. I am of course talking about Doogs and Staker. Staker has White written all over him and McDougall is almost certainly our FF for the future. Both are quality young players.
Not to mention when Gardiner or Cox move into the ruck, the other can move forward and provide an option. Our small forwards are fine with Samps and Fido, we also have mid sized forwards who can kick goals with the likes of Haynes, Jones, Embers. Then we have our goal kicking midfield.
So IMO one of our two problem areas is already fixed, we just havent reaped the benefits just yet. The backline however is another story.
I see no other option than to play Gaspar at CHB. He has the talent to be effective anywhere on the ground but if he can hold down CHB with Glass at FB, the problem is half solved. Collica, Hunter and Green are steady down back and we have a star in Wirrpunda. Of course their is the problem with depth though, if Gaspar isnt fit or Glass get's injured.
So again I think we already have a solution for the problems in defence without having to trade or go crazy. Defensive depth though is by far the biggest problem. If you take out Gas and Glass from our potential backline then you have what is commonly known as a DISASTER AREA. We must find backup tall defenders who can be relied upon should injuries to key players become a reality. IMO we should play the young'uns and find one or draft accordingly.
Im not a big trade fan.
The key defenders/forwards argument has been hashed and rehashed for the past month, realistically, yes it is true that from FF/CHF/CHB/FB, we really don't have *any* one player who has made a position on the spine their own.
What is also true, is we're not lacking in raw, young cattle who might slot into those positions. They range from the 'almost there' group like McDougall and Glass, the 'not quite physically right' group of players, like Hunter, Haynes or Lynch, who show promise, but appear to lack one of the physical attributes to play along the spine- size in Haynes' case, strength in Hunter's, speed in Lynch's case.
Then there are the untested brigade, Johnson, Hansen, Staker (in a kp, anyway) Seaby et al. Those guys have promise, thats why they are on an AFL list, but nobody knows how they'll handle AFL footy.
Finally, Trav Gaspar, who fits into a category of his own- 'stop ****ing getting injured you gimpy bastard'
The problem I see is that next year, we'll be basically slotting 4 relatively raw players into the side from FF to FB, and expecting them all to come good. I suppose I think thats a little optimistic- if we're lucky, 3/4 of Lynch/McDougall/Gaspar/Glass might come good spectacularly- but unless our development staff are gods among men, we're not going to simultaneously develop 4 talented KP players, over the course of a season. In footy, you win some, you lose some. On the basis of their improvement this year, McDougall and Glass are probably about a 75% chance of each coming good, but the other two positions are very much up in the air. Care to lay odds on Gaspar staying fit? Or Lynch not ****ing off Woosha, or a completely untried, untested player such as Hansen becoming a solid contributor in his first season of footy?
I suppose what I'm getting at is I can see the merit for trading to pick up a Rawlings/Hay type of player, almost as a plan B if our young'uns don't come up.It would also give us the luxury of playing a few people on the flanks- Glass is wonderful as the third tall in defence, Haynes shows promise as a second leading forward.
Originally posted by Mead
I suppose what I'm getting at is I can see the merit for trading to pick up a Rawlings/Hay type of player, almost as a plan B if our young'uns don't come up.It would also give us the luxury of playing a few people on the flanks- Glass is wonderful as the third tall in defence, Haynes shows promise as a second leading forward.
Totally agree, if we could find a decent quality Tall Backmen then I reckon we'll go along way to doing very well next season. We have some great young talent in the KPP area but I reckon we SHOULD find a few players who we KNOW can do the job well till these bigger boys come along.