View Full Version : Who should we clear?
AkerMcManus
7 Sep 2003, 00:09
Notting, Caracella, McDonald, Bradshaw, McGrath, Shattock and Johnson would all be worth reasonably good draft picks. On top of all the retirees, we should have plenty of fun on draft day.
We'd have to be insane to trade C.Johnson, for a whole host of reasons. He's definitely untouchable.
Bradshaw, McGrath and Shattock have all done enough to suggest that they'd be required players for us, and I'd be pretty keen to keep them. Caracella is also worth persisting with, as I believe he's shown enough to suggest, that as he settles in further, with consistency, he'll be a good player for us. With that said, there is a reasonable chance that other clubs might offer good deals, and so for the benefit of the club, we'd have to keep an open mind about any of these players if a good deal came along.
IMO, the players who have the greatest chance of being traded are McDonald and Notting.
McDonald, who is an excellent ruck-contest ruckman, could be the #1 ruck at quite a lot of other clubs, yet, he is competing against two other talented and experienced ruckmen at the Lions, even just to make the squad as #2 ruck. Without having any inside information, you'd have to think that he'd surely fancy his chances elsewhere, with the prospect of being a more highly-paid key player to another side. Likewise, I'd think that with the likes of Keating and Charman both being native QLD'ers, and both seemingly tied-up long term, you'd have to think that the club's preference would be with these two as well (as well as having McLaren as a reasonable back-up).
Similarly, Notting has had an average year. He has not come back well, after an arm injury, and after his poor performance tonight, I'd think that he'd have to make major improvements in the remaining games in order to avoid scrutiny from the club. I reckon he may just have run his course, however. With that said, he is certainly a talented player in many ways, and I reckon another top side would do well to add him to their list - and we too, may be able to capitalise on a good trade.
The Old Dark Navy's
7 Sep 2003, 12:05
Notting certainly seems to be on the outer at various times this year. I like him as a player but he isn't a tall and doesn't have blistering pace either which Carlton requires. Sure the Blues would look at him if the Lions are in need of salary cap relief but our first pick beyond the PP is #35 so I guess there is not a lot to go on there.
I agree that Johnson shouldn't be on the list to trade. Would snap him up in a second. Really thought he was in Brownlow medal form before being injured. He's an out and out star!
Originally posted by AkerMcManus
Notting, Caracella, McDonald, Bradshaw, McGrath, Shattock and Johnson would all be worth reasonably good draft picks. On top of all the retirees, we should have plenty of fun on draft day.
Remove Johnson and McGrath from that list and add Lappin. I'd also consider trading Keating because a ruckman must go and Keating spends too much time injured nowadays.
LionHeart20
7 Sep 2003, 12:41
Why Lappin?? :eek: :confused:
Originally posted by AkerMcManus
Notting, Caracella, McDonald, Bradshaw, McGrath, Shattock and Johnson would all be worth reasonably good draft picks. On top of all the retirees, we should have plenty of fun on draft day.
Chris Johnson????
Are you completely mad?
As far as McGrath and Shattock are concerned, we are just starting to get some real value out of them after 2 or 3 seasons of groundwork, especially in McGrath's case.
Why trade them now and have to start again with another pair of unfamiliar or untried draftees.
There seems to be a school of thought going around that whether or not we win the Flag again in 2003, that there has to be some kind of wholesale"clean-out".
These type of "clean-outs" are for clubs that have flopped consistently over a number of seasons and whose list has been shown to be wanting in a number of areas. Not for clubs coming off B2B Premierships and (at least) another Finals campaign.
By all means let's consider our options at the end of the season but let's not be silly about it.
Well, we won't be in contention for the flag next year, so we need to be rebuilding.
In addition to retirements, the list needs a fair bit of turnover to get some fresh runners and new blood into it.
Retirements, forced or otherwise:
Lynch
White
Ashcroft
Trade:
Notting - harsh, but has done little this year coming back from injury
McDonald - realistically will probably stay as 3 rucks on list is the Lions ethos, but would be get a good return. Maybe better to draft another young ruckman from QLD if one exists
Caracella - judging by lack of game time on Sat night, must not be in favour, so let him go
Morrison, Weller, Hadley - will probably leave if not assured of opportunities next year
Year by year:
Pike
McRae
Hart
SpecialBruce
8 Sep 2003, 12:02
Originally posted by NathanD
Weller, Hadley - will probably leave if not assured of opportunities next year
They had better not. I'll be ****ed off and will never like Matthews again if that happens. Hadley could have been played numerous times this year and Weller will get a lot of oppurtunities in the future. He will be promoted to the senior list at seasons end when White or Lynch retire. Weller will either be played at CHB next year and Leppitsch up at FF or Weller will be played up forward with Bradshaw. He will stay.
I generally agree with your post.
For the future of our club, I think we should try and get the Number 1 or 2 pick from the Bulldogs including Sam Power. The number 1 or 2 pick will be traded off because Bulldogs don't need another midfielder and the midfielders this year are basically in the top 10. We could do with another strong midfielder. Maybe that Cooney bloke.
McDonald and Notting and our first round pick will be worth the Number 1 pick and Sam Power or the Number 2 pick and Sam Power. That would be ideal.
McDonald and Notting and our second round pick will be worth the Number 1 pick and Sam Power.
McDonald and Notting could go for Sam and the Number 1 pick, but its highly unlikely the Bulldogs will accept that.
IMO, the Bulldogs will be looking for a ruckman. They could get McDonald off us and that will allow Darcy to play up forward, or they can get Keating off us and it will allow Keating to play up forward.
We trade for high draft picks and established players whilst getting rid of older type players who are taking up too much room in our Salary Cap.
Hell, I'd give the Bulldogs Lappin and McDonald to get my hands on either S Power or R Murphy with the number 1 pick. That will clear up the cap alright which is something we need to do.
Originally posted by SpecialBruce
They had better not. I'll be ****ed off and will never like Matthews again if that happens..
You mean there was a time when you DID like him?
:eek:
Beausgirl43
10 Sep 2003, 00:26
Akermanis
cheers ... Kaz :o
MSB ROYS
10 Sep 2003, 00:41
Beau
Cheers ... Mark :o
SpecialBruce
10 Sep 2003, 00:44
Originally posted by MSB ROYS
Beau
Cheers ... Mark :o
Hahaha! Classic!
Beausgirl43
10 Sep 2003, 17:39
Originally posted by MSB ROYS
Beau
Cheers ... Mark :o I have no problem with Beau being cleared from the club. If he goes, so be it, there's nothing you or I can do about it.
It's obvious you have a problem with the words .. "Akermanis" and "leaving the club" being put in the same sentence.
Better get use to it cause it could happen, he still hasn't signed a contract yet.
He'll be singing a different song next year ...
Cheer, Cheer the red and the white
Honour the name by day and by night ...
SING- A LONG, you all know the words.
cheers ... Kaz :confused:
Notting, Caracella, McDonald, Bradshaw, McGrath, Shattock and Johnson would all be worth reasonably good draft picks. On top of all the retirees, we should have plenty of fun on draft day.
The first 4 to go. I'd like to keep Gram, Weller and Hadley. Willing to lose Lappin if he wants to go home. Of the rucks definately Beau and possibly McLaren though maybe keep him for another year when we'd get more for him.
Retirements: White, Ashcroft and possibly McRae
That's a nice turnover.
Aker's not going - my thought is he'll be vice captain.
Retirements
White
McCrae
Ashcroft
Lynch
That will leave us with a list of about 33,
What we really want is some early draft picks,
I would think that Beau McDonald would be worth a first round pick, a western bulldogs or St Kilda would be interested i would think.
The club has no choice but to persists with Notting, Gram, Hadley, Wright, Weller, they have put too much in not to get some reward, their has to be a changing of the guard in some respects next year, for us to be a continual final force. But it is imperative we get ourselves early picks,
a possible trade to the bulldogs might be
McDonald and McLaren for
a first round draft pick and a third round draft pick.
what do you think
naughty monkey
10 Sep 2003, 18:52
Originally posted by acuguy
...<snip>...
a possible trade to the bulldogs might be
McDonald and McLaren for
a first round draft pick and a third round draft pick.
what do you think
that you're on drugs!
I'll give you a tip - Bulldogs have picks 1 and 4. If you want to get either of these you will need to give up some quality players, not blokes that can't make your starting 18. Try some names who are in your top 10.
The idea is you trade a gun for a gun. Two or three crap players are are never worth one gun player.
Would you be happy if Brisbane got David Sierakowski and Josh Wooden for Dessy Headland last year? Somehow I don't think so.
you obviously didn't understand my post mate. McDonald for a first round draft pick, either 1 or 4,
McLaren for a third round draft pick, so anywhere from pick 35 to pick 50, whatever the bulldogs would have available, i too admit that pick 4 maybe too high for McDonald, but McDonald is a proven young Ruckman with Two premierships under his belt, the bulldogs and saints would crawl over broken glass to get to him. McLaren has played solid league football, he is too short to be a ruckmen, but does have kp ability, maybe an option at centre half back, something the bullies are dying for. so maybe as a sweetener, the bulldogs might trade us pick 4 for McDonald and our first pick which would be about 15. McDonald and pick 15 for Pick no.4, not as crazy as it sounds really.
Hawks will take Bradshaw!
Straight swap, Bradshaw for Hawks top 10 draft pick.
What do you say?
Roylion
11 Sep 2003, 12:28
The usual BigFooty trading games are starting to occur and as I enjoy the wheeling and dealing in these I've spent some time negotiating trades on behalf of the Brisbane Lions.
Would any of you entertain the following trades? Below are what opposition managers agreed to:
TRADE 1: Bulldogs Sam Power and Pick #4 for Jason Akermanis.
TRADE 2: Geelong's David Clarke, James Kelly and Cameron Mooney for Clark Keating, Robert Copeland and a 2nd round draft pick.
TRADE 3: North's Leigh Harding and a third round draft pick for Tim Notting, Shane Morrison and a 3rd round draft pick. Harding a replacement for Craig McRae?
NathanD
11 Sep 2003, 12:50
Trades 1 and 3 seem reasonable, though losing Aker is a hard pill to swallow.
Roylion, I could live with 1 and 3, but number 2 is rubbish.
Lets be honest, if a ruckman goes at the end of the year, its gonna be Beau. Copeland is just starting to come of age as a footballer and is a prime candidate to play Ashcroft/Hart's role in the team on a weekly basis. He may even play as an onballer with his fearless attitude and booming boot.
As for Kelly, C Mooney and Clarke - What would we get out of them? Kelly maybe, but I'd prefer to see the club keep Boofa instead of recruiting another similar midfielder. Mooney isn't good enough and wouldn't fit in the top 30 on our list and Clarke has foot skills like a drunken Andrew Dunkley!
I doubt that trade would go down well with the Lions and in particular, our supporters.
Keep working on those trades but, 1 and 3 may be goers.
SpecialBruce
11 Sep 2003, 13:13
I dont' know what Bulldogs would want with Aka and Aka will be a huge loss for us. He should be vice captain next year.
Trade 2 is crap. Mooney wouldn't even get a game.
Trade 3 - ummmm, we have Ash McGrath as a replacement and we have the other players in the backline.
I'm in the first trading game and I had the oppurtunity of taking Carlton. To try and find an improved list.
I traded Scott Camporeale, Matthew Lappin, Jarad Waite and my pick #19 to Brisbane.
I got from Brisbane, Jared Brennan, Jamie Charman and Richard Hadley.
Roylion
11 Sep 2003, 21:31
Trade No. 4.
Blake Caracella, Darryl White and a 4th round draft pick for Nathan Thompson from Hawthorn.
SpecialBruce
11 Sep 2003, 21:38
I'm in Trading game number 3 and I have taken over Brisbane.
Trade NO.1
Eagles get: Tim Notting
Port get: Jeremy Humm and Kane Munro
Brisbane get: Adam Selwood and Third Round Draft Pick (From Port)
Roylion
11 Sep 2003, 21:52
Originally posted by Homer
Roylion, I could live with 1 and 3, but number 2 is rubbish.
Lets be honest, if a ruckman goes at the end of the year, its gonna be Beau. Copeland is just starting to come of age as a footballer and is a prime candidate to play Ashcroft/Hart's role in the team on a weekly basis. He may even play as an onballer with his fearless attitude and booming boot.
Don't forget that in negotiating you also have to take into account what the other team wants. I offered McDonald first, but they were keen on Keating. I could live with Keating's loss, if we picked up another ruckman-forward. Hello Nathan Thompson. Copeland in my view is expendable. I would be quite happy to keep him, but Jason Gram may be the ready replacement here.
Originally posted by Homer
As for Kelly, C Mooney and Clarke - What would we get out of them? Kelly maybe, but I'd prefer to see the club keep Boofa instead of recruiting another similar midfielder. Mooney isn't good enough and wouldn't fit in the top 30 on our list and Clarke has foot skills like a drunken Andrew Dunkley!
Kelly is lightning quick and at only aged 20 would be a good replacement for Tim Notting. Clarke is also quick, is only 22 and has improved his kicking from what it was. He reminds me of an outside receiver such as Headland/Caracella.
Mooney? Back up forward only. However at 194 cm and 95 kg, and with the impending retirement of Lynch, he'll be very handy. He;s got a proven ability to take contested marks. A forward line of Bradshaw (25)/Leppitsch (28), Mooney(23), Brown(22 and Thompson (25) will carry us through for a number of years. I'd certainly rate Mooney more highly than Morrison.
SpecialBruce
12 Sep 2003, 14:25
Originally posted by Roylion
Don't forget that in negotiating you also have to take into account what the other team wants. I offered McDonald first, but they were keen on Keating. I could live with Keating's loss, if we picked up another ruckman-forward. Hello Nathan Thompson. Copeland in my view is expendable. I would be quite happy to keep him, but Jason Gram may be the ready replacement here.
Kelly is lightning quick and at only aged 20 would be a good replacement for Tim Notting. Clarke is also quick, is only 22 and has improved his kicking from what it was. He reminds me of an outside receiver such as Headland/Caracella.
Mooney? Back up forward only. However at 194 cm and 95 kg, and with the impending retirement of Lynch, he'll be very handy. He;s got a proven ability to take contested marks. A forward line of Bradshaw (25)/Leppitsch (28), Mooney(23), Brown(22 and Thompson (25) will carry us through for a number of years. I'd certainly rate Mooney more highly than Morrison.
That's true.
I've been trying to negotiate a trade with St.Kilda in trade game 3.
1. I was offered Pick 11 for Mal - I rejected it.
2. I was offered Pick 11 and Thompson for Mal - I rejected it. We dont' need an old midfielder when we have young midfielders.
3. I was offered Nick Riewoldt for Brown and Michael - Rejected that one.
4. I was offered Moyle and Maguire for Selwood and Michael - Rejected.
5. I was offered Pick 11 for Mal. I would then give Pick 11 to Essendon with Caracella to get Dustin Fletcher - Rejected.
6. Pick 11, Andrew Thompson and 4th rounder for Richard Hadley and Mal Michael - Rejected.
7. I offered this one. Mal Michael and Blake Caracella to St.Kilda. I get pick 11 and then I get a top 10 pick aswell with another club. -Rejected.
8. I was offered Pick 8 for Mal Michael and Richard Hadley - Rejected.
9. Pick 8, 11 and Schwarz for Michael, Bradshaw and Shattock - Rejected.
10. Pick 11 and Scharze for Michael - Thinking about that one.
I could go on, but we havn't come to a reasonable deal so Mal Michael isn't up for grabs unless I get something reasonable with him that will compensate his loss.
I don't think any of you would go for a deal like that.
Roylion
13 Sep 2003, 00:36
Trade No. 5
Martin Pike (aged 31) and Craig McRae (aged 30) for Sydney's Nic Fosdike (aged 23), Jared Crouch (aged 25), and Sean Dempster (aged 19).
I see Fosdike as a goal-kicking midfielder, Crouch as a Shaun Hart/Craig McRae midfielder/forward pocket type and Dempster is a tall running wingman. Dempster is a good overhead mark and has good pace.
Roylion
14 Sep 2003, 22:01
Trade No. 6 in the trading game.
Daniel Bradshaw and Jared Brennan for Geelong's Ben Graham, Daniel Foster, First round #8, Second round # 24 and 3rd round #40.
How are your Brisbane trades going SB?
Draft position is looking quite healthy.
From a trading position of #16-19, #32-25 and #48-51, the Lions would now have #4, #8, #16-19, #24 and #40. Five picks in the Top 40 wouldn't be too bad.
BrainOfMorbius
23 Sep 2003, 22:47
Originally posted by Beausgirl43
I have no problem with Beau being cleared from the club. If he goes, so be it, there's nothing you or I can do about it.
It's obvious you have a problem with the words .. "Akermanis" and "leaving the club" being put in the same sentence.
Better get use to it cause it could happen, he still hasn't signed a contract yet.
He'll be singing a different song next year ...
Cheer, Cheer the red and the white
Honour the name by day and by night ...
SING- A LONG, you all know the words.
cheers ... Kaz :confused: Oh - bad luck.
Originally posted by AkerMcManus
Notting, Caracella, McDonald, Bradshaw, McGrath, Shattock and Johnson would all be worth reasonably good draft picks. On top of all the retirees, we should have plenty of fun on draft day.
You have got to be kidding, surely? :confused:
Firstly, McGrath represents the future of the club. A beautiful footballer who can kick miracle goals and has been very good so far this finals campaign. Shattock is another youngster with real potential on the verge of becoming a regular player. Bradshaw with his ability to play both ends of the ground must surely be in the must keep category.
Chirs Johnson, well I am almost speechless. This bloke is an outstanding footballer and you want to trade him?
Caracella has taken a season to adjust but is finally starting to show something.
The only two in my view are McDonald, because he looks just a little too injury prone, yet as a ruckman would attract real interest in pre draft trading and Notting because he does not seem to have gone on as well as he initiallypromised.