View Full Version : Does it really matter if we don't win the flag this year or get knocked out???
SpecialBruce
9 Sep 2003, 02:05
Some of you may remember a post I made at the start of the season about passion and not giving a stuff as supporters if we don't witness a flag this year.
Now is the time to touch on it considering there is a possibility that:
A) We will win this week and the premiership chances are still alive.
or,
B) We will get knocked out this week and the premiership chances are gone.
As I have had time to think, I don't really give a crap if we don't witness a flag this year. It would be sensational, but there is no point being upset if we don't witness it.
We have witnessed a merger which brought two clubs together with each teams supporters. Earlier on in the Bear's history, they were ****house and fans endured a hard time. Later on in Fitzroy's history, their fans witnessed an end to the club that they have been barracking for their life time, a few years, and even family generations. Most of the supporters from both clubs are now supporting this team that has created history over the last 2 seasons.
We have witnessed the club go through poor seasons. 98 was the worst for the Brisbane Lions by far.
In 1998, we were dismal and won the wooden spoon. We got a new coach at the helm, a coach who was going to turn the playing group into a champion team, to coach back to back flags. No one knew at the time that this would happen.
1999, we made the Preliminary Final. A fantastic effort considering the performance the year before.
2000, we slipped down a bit.
2001, we started off poor, had an embarrassing loss to Carlton, then lost to Adelaide at home, then things started to fall together from then on in. The playing group, coaches and the club believed in themselves and each other and turned what was a negative part of the year into a positive thing which made them win a flag and made the playing group quite remarkable. No one at the start of the year rated us. No one after the Carlton game rated us to be a Premiership contender in the next few years. How wrong can some people be.
2002, It was a tough ask, but it was done. They, the players, did drop off a bit, but the playing group sustained the motivation and the skills to win back to back flags. It's hard to pick which year of the two were better. Our first flag over Essendon, or back to back flags over Collingwood in a well fought contest considering the club finished last just 4 seasons ago.
This year, the club has fallen back to the standards of the rest of the competition. Going for three flags was one tough ask. The club is not out of it yet. This will be a tough week coming up. A tough game to try and re-establish that goal of going back to back to back. It all starts this week. It starts on the training track, it starts before the game, it starts after a win. Once that win is established, the self belief will be even more extraordinary than it already is. One win from another Grand Final, 2 wins away from creating history. The fans have got to stay by the club, by the coach, by the players whilst they try and achieve the goal they have set out to achieve.
If we win the flag, it will be a remarkable achievement and a very good time for the club, the players and the fans. If we don't win it, as far as I'm concerned, I have witnessed my club win back to back flags. I have stayed with my club, even when I was supporting through the tough years. That is not something fans can enjoy. Some fans don't even enjoy a premiership in their lifetime, let alone two, especially back to back. What we have witnessed is a remarkable group of players who have had self belief, belief in each other, belief in their coach. Sure some fans this year have been angry after losses, but seriously, this post will put things into perspective and make you wonder that seriously, it isn't bad if we don't witness another flag this year.
For the playing group, they don't need to be upset if they don't win the flag. They have done something other clubs can't do. Be a successful club, create history, win back to back flags and enjoy success with each other, something which they will be able to look back on in 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years time. It may seem horrible with a dream shattered, but back to back flags is nothing to be upset about. The great times are there for them and to also the fans. For the players, the great times of playing with mates and for the fans, the great times supporting the club through success and sticking through it when times were tough.
So whether we win or lose this week, win or lose next week, win or lose in the Grand Final, it doesn't matter. We, the fans have witnessed something extraordinary and something which we can remember for the rest of our lives and for the players, that remarkable achievement of making the impossible, possible. It just proves that anything can be done.
GO LIONS!
That's the spirit! The Lions have proven to be the most formidable team in the competition the last few years, and can be proud of their efforts. The Back to Back thing is very tough to do, but to come out fighting for a third is even tougher. This Lions outfit has achieved as much, or more than any other team in the last couple of decades.
Adelaide achieved the back to back last decade, but that was due to a couple of good Septembers. We never experienced the dominance, and formidability that you have enjoyed. Be proud, be very proud.
And let me tell you, if Adelaide lose on the weekend, they'd be holding their heads high, knowing that it was Brisbane they lost to. And if Adelaide win, they'll be all the stronger, knowing that a damn tough hurdle is out of the way....
Wished my club could do the same.
Loved watching em knock off the bombers and lesser the pies (my mum's a pie).
No matter what happens ,they've done their fans proud with the achievements of the last 3 years.
Interesting post SB - I'm looking forward to seeing a bunch of young fellas running around as Lions next year and how Matthews molds a new group together into premiership contenders a few years down the track.
A mighty strong core is still there - can you imagine a back half of Johnson, Michael, Copeland, C. Scott, Akermanis, Bradshaw and Lappin, Brown at CHF, Leppa at FF, Voss and McGrath FP, Black and Power at the heart of the midfield rotation, Charman No 1 ruck etc etc.
A fantastic basis to build upon and take the Lions through the next phase. Time will tell.
At the moment, it seems as if Father Time has caught up with this bunch, but still they can't be written off but by crikey the task seems monumental for those tired bodies.
SB that's my favourite post of all time.
I must admit that I've been avoiding the boards after the loss but seeing that sort of spirit is just great. I am so proud of our team win or lose or Friday. We have to be realistic our guys' bodies are just broken. We are going to be competitive for a number of more years.
I think we have the makings for a'90s-00's Essendon (maybe even 80's Hawthorn) Always in the thick of it at September.
Great post SB.
And no, it doesn't matter if we don't win the flag this year. IMO, there is too much importance given to winning flags, in terms of people thinking that this is the only way you can enjoy football.
The football world seems to be fixated with the idea, that winning flags equals long-term success. This may be the harsh reality of the world these days, but IMO, it is sad that football, and sport as a whole, has been reduced to a commodity, whereby 'ultimate' on-field success seems to be the only factor from which people generally seek the most enjoyment.
What about all the other things about sport and sporting clubs which make being "a part of it all" great?
Sadly, the demise of Fitzroy in its own right, seems to be such a pivotal signifier of this trend in this country.
I'd well and truly jumped off SB of recent, but this one is a corker.
Roys fans didn't we a GF win in the club's last 50 years. Bears fans hadn't seen a GF appearance. And the Lions have managed 2 appearances for 2 wins, plus regular finals appearances. Its bloody incredible when you look back at our record since the end 0f 98. In 5 years of football, 5 finals appearances....
It is funny that once you've one a premiership, you actually get hungry for another. In the past I was delighted if my team made the finals - ever hopeful they'd go further, but satisfied that my team was successful... I don't think that was a "loser's" attitude either, more of an acknowledgement as to how hard it actually is to win a premiership. Personally I think that the concept of thepremiership hangover is a crock - anyone who has experienced a grand final win as a supporter knows that you want to get that feeling again, and I can only imagine that as a player you'd also want that same feeling again as well. But realistically its hard enough to win one, let alone two, or even contemplate a third.
Yet here we are still in the mix for a third, even though it will be more difficult than ever from where we are now. Still exciting, still gut-wrenching to watch.
I am personally trying to remind myself that win or lose this weekend, we've still had a successful year. We've still got a great club. We've still got a brilliant player group who are sensational to watch play (eg. Aker's goal on Saturday, Browny's leads out to the wing marking under pressure, and of course the in general wizardry of Voss) and who often give their time to the supporter base with humility and a sense of fun, and who represent us with passion and pride week in week out. We've still got a mad supporter base who create a cauldron of Lionesque pride up north at games and stand up and yell when outnumbered down south.
Stocka is right. It shouldn't be all about winning premierships (though you do want more when you get the taste), it should be about enjoyment. And win or lose hell I've enjoyed this season - backs to the wall with injuries yet still soldiering on.
HAVING SAID ALL THAT I DO HOPE WE WHIP THAT MOB FROM ADELAIDE THIS WEEKEND. Go Lions.
The Old Dark Navy's
9 Sep 2003, 14:22
Of course it matters whether you win it or not. The important part is how you choose to look at it if you don't win it. There will still be disappointment as all supporters would prefer victory over defeat but Lions fans are in the enviable position of being able to say that there players have given them so much, there is no way you would begrudge them a moment of mere mortality.
Nice attitudes on display.:)
BrainOfMorbius
9 Sep 2003, 14:41
I was so wound up about the game on Saturday night, jumping right of my skin. But I was surprised at how well I took the loss. Disappointed, sure, but I felt as though all the pressure had been taken off, it was such a weight off my shoulders! Even if we don't win the flag, even if we don't win this Friday, I know the players have tried their guts out.
And we'll be right back up there in the hunt next season. Not even Hawthorn in the 80s won more than two flags in a row, but by god they were a powerful side. The Lions have the chance to make this decade theirs.
BrainofMorbius, that's exactly how I felt/feel. In the future we'll look back on this time and think how the Voss/Matthews team gave us the team that we're so proud of now.
Actually thinking about that, do you think that's why other supporters aren't the best? I mean becuase our captain is so sportsmanlike and generous and gracious is that why we can be the same?
Some well made points.
I have wondered over on the Crows board whether the players will be thinking a bit like this as well, even just on a sub-concious level.
They could be well pleased with what they have achieved over the last three years and this may just affect their performance a little.
This is just one of the things that puts the game a bit back in our favour, obvisouly along with Voss's likely abscence.
Originally posted by kimp
BrainofMorbius, that's exactly how I felt/feel. In the future we'll look back on this time and think how the Voss/Matthews team gave us the team that we're so proud of now.
Actually thinking about that, do you think that's why other supporters aren't the best? I mean becuase our captain is so sportsmanlike and generous and gracious is that why we can be the same?
ditto
and
ditto..... many a C'Wood supporter was abusive around me on Sat Night. One bloke constantly called Leppa a "retard" (this was a grown man, not some kid) and others called Voss soft and every name under the sun. Yet having conversations with mates who are Pies supporters after the game, all I could come up with was how underrated Ben Johnson is and how they look the goods for the flag now. For the life of me I'd never contemplate giving the bird to the opposition players to stick it up them after a win where the opposition had had the wood over us over the past few years, yet there were so many of them offering the Lions some extraordinary "advice" after the game. Personally saying ordinary things about Voss is the equivalent of saying ordinary things about Hird - a great player who is also a fantastic leader, as demonstrated by that amazing footage of him and Cupido on the weekend.
SpecialBruce
9 Sep 2003, 16:16
Originally posted by NathanD
Interesting post SB - I'm looking forward to seeing a bunch of young fellas running around as Lions next year and how Matthews molds a new group together into premiership contenders a few years down the track.
A mighty strong core is still there - can you imagine a back half of Johnson, Michael, Copeland, C. Scott, Akermanis, Bradshaw and Lappin, Brown at CHF, Leppa at FF, Voss and McGrath FP, Black and Power at the heart of the midfield rotation, Charman No 1 ruck etc etc.
A fantastic basis to build upon and take the Lions through the next phase. Time will tell.
At the moment, it seems as if Father Time has caught up with this bunch, but still they can't be written off but by crikey the task seems monumental for those tired bodies.
Exactly right, if we can keep this playing group and have the neccessary retirements, we have young players who will finally display their talents. All fitting in nicely.
Originally posted by BrainOfMorbius
And we'll be right back up there in the hunt next season. Not even Hawthorn in the 80s won more than two flags in a row, but by god they were a powerful side. The Lions have the chance to make this decade theirs.
I remember the Geelong people saying in 63 that 'here comes a decade of flags' .. hmm! Success is fleeting so the fact that we've snagged 2 flags ( and beaten traditional rivals in both games ) is beyond a Royboy's wildest dreams. The pain of Cats fans with 4 losing GFs is too scarey to contemplate.
We're still in it and therefore there's opportunity for glory. As Uncle Ho used to say '.. dare to struggle, dare to win..".
Thinking about that, I want Caracella gone (surprising I know). We have other young guys who can do the job (who we can pay less). I'd be happier seeing one of the youngins' come through instead.
Lions2k2
9 Sep 2003, 17:28
I think we still have a great chance of winning the G/F
This week we have luxury of playing at home and if we have a big win(fingers crossed) we rest players 4th Q, which will then leave the team feeling refreshed and then getting back voss/shatts for the sydney game with them also havening injury problems i think we are looking nearly as good as last year, so yeh ill be very dissapointed if we dont win the flag this year
SB, that's too good, I can't beat that. Well done.
FattyLumpkin
9 Sep 2003, 18:48
Originally posted by NathanD
A mighty strong core is still there - can you imagine a back half of Johnson, Michael, Copeland, C. Scott, Akermanis, Bradshaw and Lappin, Brown at CHF, Leppa at FF, Voss and McGrath FP, Black and Power at the heart of the midfield rotation, Charman No 1 ruck etc etc.
The age of Lynch, White, Hart, Ashcroft is well known, however some of the "mighty strong core" listed above aint no spring chickens either. Johnno, Leppa, Lappin, the Piranah brothers - even Aka & Mal M are a lot closer to 30 than 20. Need a good hard look at the list now, than "doing a Carlton".
Maybe another flag or GF appearance could mask our shortcomings for another year or so. Hence an early exit may see the powers that be address the list earlier than later. Still - another flag at the expense of Coll'wood would be oh so nice!!
Fatty
I have to agree completely with SB's great post!!!!! I think that in the short space of time that the Brisbane Lions have achieved everything they have - especially when you think that in 1998 the club was almost torn apart.........it's incredible and we have all been very privileged to be a part of that.
And I've been thinking about it too, how I'd feel if we went out in straight sets or lose next week or in the GF, and I wouldn't be too upset about it because especially if we make it to the last Saturday in September yet again this year, and with our injuries and all would be an INCREDIBLE effort so if we lost it wouldn't kill me. Obviously I'd like to see us go as far as possible, but I'm sure you all understood my point!!!!!!
We've done a bloody good job to finish as high as we have this year, and to fight the way we did on Saturday night (well for 3 and a bit quarters at least) is something to be proud of too and whatever happens from here will just make me prouder. :)
Nice post Special.
As to what Stocka said, I agree with what he said too.... ie., the enjoyment you get from your club shouldn't be all about winning Flags.
Actually, I think for the real club supporter, it actually ISN'T.
Sticking together through the tough times is in a perverse way, VERY enjoyable, especially if the good times follow sometime in your footy-following life.
Maybe this is what makes being a Lions supporter so unique.....the great majority of us have come from a background of adversity. Nearly all of us of followed one of two clubs who were at most stages of their recent histories, battered from pillar to post, mocked, ridiculed, shunted from one "home" to another, written off, never taken seriously and generally treated as the poor relations.
Whatever happens from here, I'll always look back on the last 5 years(and hopefully a few more, too) with enormous pride and satisfaction.
We accomplished more than most of us dared hope.
It's great to be a Lion.
MSB ROYS
9 Sep 2003, 19:47
It doesn't matter if we don't win if every player tried their best. No complaints about last week's loss.
Am expecting a win against Adelaide though...
I also meant to say that it's been really good having supporters come down and post their thoughts too, thanks guys for appreciating our team's efforts as well. Very sporting of you!!!!!!! :D
roostersgal4eva
9 Sep 2003, 21:14
seeing brisbane win the 2 flags and giving me such great memories has been a blast. as for this season - i want to see us win the flag again as for some of our champions it might be their last year and i believe they deserve to go out on a winning note
its great to be a lions supporter and i am sooooooo proud of the club no matter what
rchowell
10 Sep 2003, 01:56
I have an admission to make. I was going to save it until the end of the season, but I think this is the right place to do it. I remember back to 1997, when Brisbane managed just a draw from its last 5 games leading into September, and had to rely on Port Adelaide to lose to St Kilda in the last game of the season to make the finals. That night I was barracking for St Kilda, but deep down I didn't really mind as much as I sometimes would have if Port won, because I sort of knew what was going to happen next week. In the end Brisbane lost to the Saints in the first final by 8 goals (after leading at half time) and their season was over.
On Saturday night I felt those feelings again. Those last 10 minutes were painful. It was embarrassing. Not that I was ashamed of my team (as I have been in the past), but it was just sad to see champions like Michael Voss and Jason Akermanis sitting on the bench watching on helplessly, unable to return to the field of battle. It was sad to see great players like Simon Black, Shaun Hart, Chris Johnson, fumbling balls around their ankles that two seasons ago would have been swallowed and booted down into a dangerous forward line for a goal. And not because they weren't trying, but because they were absolutely spent. The game has got too fast for them, and what we are seeing at the moment is a champion team in ruin, because they have been hunted by fifteen other clubs for two seasons.
In a way, every extra week their season lasts is just prolonging the agony, both for me, and maybe even for them. On Friday night, they are on a hiding to nothing, and I can't say I'm particularly looking forward to it. If they win, people will say "well so they should have", if they lose, from my point of view it will be the final nail in the coffin, in more ways than one. The final pillar of dominance will have been toppled - the home finals record will be tarnished, never to be redeemed.
But then, to answer the question, I am going to go against the grain here because I actually think it does matter. Of course, back to back premierships is great, and I think if someone had told us at the end of that 14 goal loss to Carlton in the 2000 semi final that Brisbane would go back to back in the next two seasons, we'd have taken that no questions asked. And then, last year's Grand Final was possibly one of the most stirring performances on any sporting field I think I've ever seen. With all the injuries they'd had that day, against a side that was running on top of the ground, under conditions completely foreign to what they were used to, they just had no right to win it. And yet, somehow they did, and I think what made us even prouder was that not only did they win, but the fact that they displayed fighting qualities that I for one didn't know they had, and they did it for the first time on the biggest day of the year.
But still the opportunity remains for Brisbane to go one step further. Adelaide also won back to back premierships, so did Hawthorn in the 80's, so did Essendon, and there have been many more. No side has won 3 in a row since the 50s, and I would assume there aren't many on this board who remember that. What I am saying is that Brisbane should dare to dream, dare to be different, dare to be the best. Achieving 3 in a row in such a cut throat competition will be looked back on in 50 years time and people will wonder how on earth they did it. It will take a miracle, and from the situation they currently find themselves in, more than a miracle. But, while they remain in the competition, they remain a chance to win it. Take heart from last year's Grand Final - in so many ways it captures in a nutshell what they have had to endure for much of this season. And now, halfway through the last quarter, they are in foreign territory, they have injured players on the field, they are behind on the scoreboard, they are going sideways, backwards, they can't possibly win, they have no right to win. And yet, they still might. Keep the faith.
lioness
10 Sep 2003, 02:31
rchowell, that was an absolutely awesome post!!!!!!! Very inspirational, perhaps we should send some of these to the boys to fire them up a bit. ;)
For all those people who put us down and call us the Bears, or make fun of either teams' history, just to have that magical threepeat and say 'well **** you, try and beat THAT :D' would be just incredible. Our team has come such a long way in such a short space of time that sometimes I still find it hard to believe that we've won the last two, and are still in with a small but very real chance of making it three in a row.
I don't know........even if they fall short but fight their damn guts out trying, I'll still be proud of what they've achieved.
Agree with all of the above, worthy sentiments. Seems to me we are paying the price for the physical game we've played over the past few seasons. The bodies couldn't possibly hold up. This, coupled with our truncated list, has made us vulnerable.
There is an argument which could be mounted that we should have blooded more young 'uns, but we had to try to win every game, by selecting the best team available. When we went to such lengths to keep our squad together, we probably committed to this course of action.
My fear would be that we would somehow win through to another GF, and make a meal of it. That would be an embarrassment.
However, if we were to win, we would definitely be the greatest team of all time.
We are THAT close - 3 wins away.