View Full Version : Underdog Status
Poet from Port
15 Sep 2003, 12:07
There has been debate on the Main board regarding the fact that each team is seeking underdog status to somehow put the pressure on the other team.
Personally, I don't think this is the real issue. The real issue is how the coaches and players will mentally prepare for the game.
It is fact that Port's record in finals (2/8) is abysmal, but it is also fact that Port have choked in only 3 of their 8 finals (less than 50%). Port's 3 losses to North and Brisbane were always going to happen as their opposition was obviously superior on their home turf, and on each occasion those teams went on to win the flag.
In these choke games the biggest underlying factor is that Port appeared to approached their preparation in terms of how "can we stop from losing this game" rather than on how "can we adopt a game plan to WIN this game". This attitude is hard to wipe from the player's psyche.
Left us face it, the Pies are a good team, but they are not a GREAT team, and the MCG is the place you have to win finals. That is the positive. Devising a game plan that will allow you to win the game will hopefully cause the Coach and Players to approach the game with a different attitude.
Being the underdog is not relevant as long as you are ready and come out to play.
Don't care if we are underdogs or not.
Makes no difference to if we can win or not.
All that mind games stuff is a lot of rubbish in my not so humble opinion.
True but it's more fun winning when you're the underdog.
I think the issue is that Collingwood being the underdog sets them up to say we choked and all that business. It also makes the losing team feel more comfortable about the result. Not that it's a good thing. I agree that it doesn't make a major difference on the result.
Porthos
15 Sep 2003, 12:23
It should make no difference on the result, but setting ourselves up as the underdog gives great scope for Pie bagging in the future. Not that anyone here would be involved in that sort of thing, of course.
It's purely to remove MM and co's ability to say Port risk choking in this match. Harsh reality says even Saturday's great performance isn't enough to shake the monkey fully off our backs - we have to win this week to do that. Choco neutralising MM's mind games before Monday morning rolls around allows him and our players to concentrate on preparing for the game rather then spending the week saying we aren't chokers and being distracted. It was the right thing to say and I don't think losing saturday (which we won't!) would feel any better if we claim underdog status or not for either us or the players or coaching staff.
Cyclops
15 Sep 2003, 13:19
Coaches use psychological positioning to relieve the immense pressure on players. This is an important element of coaching, removing obstacles to a good game.
People say "They're highly professionals, they should be able to handle the stress" but lets face it, they're usually a bunch of young blokes who have more talent than brains. often they're very immature and stuff up if left to themselves. They need a hook or a theme to keep them focussed for a big game-"us against everyone" is one, "people don't rate you but you're good enough" is the other big one.
Very few sides relish "favourite" status. Brisbane is one, they love the big occasions, and turn in good games whatever the odds. Carlton used to be very good at turning a perceived advantage into a crushing victory. West Coast used that invincible aura in the early 90's to maintain their ascendancy.
Port have faltered in a couple of finals. They didn't disgrace themselves (Sydney played really well to beat them) but they look happier when people think they can be beaten-it give them something to prove.
Collingwood are the same. We dropped a couple of "should win" games (Eagles and Sydney at Docklands) and faltered badly in a couple of big games where we were favoured (Brisbane at the MCG, Essendon on ANZAC Day). When we lined up against the Bombers and then the Lions the second time around, we came in on something like equal terms, and looked a lot more settled.
Port have slight underdog status for this match which will help them, no doubt. Williams is a fantastic coach, best of the non-premiership coaches IMO. He will extract every motivational advantage for his side, and they will turn in their best against the Pies.
Malthouse is a good enough coach to cancel any complacency/choking. Like Williams he is very good at getting the best out of a less than perfect list. However he'd love to have an unfair tribunal decision/unpaid free kick/unfair AFL ruling/salary cap binus/excuse to whinge about and mess with Port's collective heads. Look for him and Eddie to start a few hares this week about how strong Port are, or how brilliant Williams is, or Wanganeen being a monte for the Brownlow.
I think the Pies deserve to be favourites, as we've had the weeks rest, and our best ruckman and midfielder are fit and firing. The weeks rest, the venue, the form line, the finals record, the injuries and the tribunal all favour us. Williams is a good enough coach to turn these factors into motivation for his boys. It wil be a 50-50 match, and hopefully a corker.
footballphantom
15 Sep 2003, 13:53
I have been thinking and that really hurts. Collingwood in Melbourne would be slighty easier than Brisbane at home.
They are all talking about how Power lost the chance to host the prelim at home but against Brisbane we really have no home advantage over the last few games.
Poet from Port
15 Sep 2003, 13:56
Originally posted by footballphantom
I have been thinking and that really hurts. Collingwood in Melbourne would be slighty easier than Brisbane at home.
They are all talking about how Power lost the chance to host the prelim at home but against Brisbane we really have no home advantage over the last few games.
My initial thoughts would be that Port would have a greater chance in the Prelim against the pies than the Granny.
On second thoughts, considering Collingwood's poor grand final record that may not of been the case.
Originally posted by footballphantom
I have been thinking and that really hurts. Collingwood in Melbourne would be slighty easier than Brisbane at home.
They are all talking about how Power lost the chance to host the prelim at home but against Brisbane we really have no home advantage over the last few games.
Only difference is that from losing that final, we have to play Brisbane at the MCG rather than AAMI stadium, either way it was always going to be a tough game.
If Sydney happen to get up then that will be a bonus for the winner of the Port-collingwood game.
moe sizlak
15 Sep 2003, 14:28
On second thoughts, considering Collingwood's poor grand final record that may not of been the case
Port, always thinking ahead of themselves. You've yet to make a grand final, cease the pathetic big noting attempts.
One factor that will no doubt be in collingwoods favour, is the home ground advantage. The biggest crowd of the year will also be at least 80-85% collingwood, and it will also be the most riot inciting of the year.
Beffery
15 Sep 2003, 15:18
Originally posted by Porthos
Not that anyone here would be involved in that sort of thing, of course.
Never! ;)
blackdiamond
15 Sep 2003, 23:27
We are the under dogs there is no doubt about that.
However.............
Mark Williams announced back at the club on Saturday Night 'WE WILL WIN!!!'
As far as Im concerned the 2003 Premiership is ours!
de_LICA_ish18
17 Sep 2003, 00:07
Serious question: How do Port perform on the MCG?
Originally posted by de_LICA_ish18
Serious question: How do Port perform on the MCG?
That would depend on whether your talking abouts games versus Hawthorn, or Melbourne.
I couldn't say I really care who has underdog status for this match. If the coaches think it is worthwhile to tussle over that then let them but it doesn't mean a thing to me. Does being the underdog make losing any easier to take? Or winning any more sweet? I would much sooner support the team that wins all the time than the one that has "character-building" wins. Let the also-ran teams crow about winning despite their underdog status, it doesn't help when you lose most of the games of the season though, does it?
There is no such thing as an underdog in a final. Especially when the two teams involved finished 1 and 2 after the season. Forget previous history, and forget away form (Port's is the best in the AFL). No team will have the right after this game to say "well, we lost but we weren't expected to win."
Originally posted by de_LICA_ish18
Serious question: How do Port perform on the MCG?
50% record in the past three years. I'd imagine if MM was our coach, he'd say something like "We eat travelling to the MCG up!".