View Full Version : NRl to schedule more games in Western Sydney
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/even-in-brisbane-petero-will-add-fuel-to-nrls-fire-20110816-1iwea.html
Our friends who pretend there is no threat from GWS are apparently going to compromise their draw so that the 4 NRL clubs in Western Sydney play each other twice at their home grounds. :p
Yeah, I just read that as well. The real question to my mind is why weren't they doing that already if there's rivalries there to exploit?
westie88
17 Aug 2011, 15:14
Well the NRL are the ones who have ignored Blacktown & Mt Druitt for years. Now that the people of that area suddenly have their own top-level football team showing a genuine interest in the people of the region and developing the community that happens to be from a rival code, for the NRL to suddenly pretend they're interested and that Doonside is "our turf" is just laughable.
Yeah, I just read that as well. The real question to my mind is why weren't they doing that already if there's rivalries there to exploit?
Look forward to the next NRL Western Sydney blockbuster with 20,000. :rolleyes:
Whilst they rush to defend their heartland they leave their flanks exposed.;)
GiantForce
17 Aug 2011, 16:52
Wow, more games with crap attendences of around 5K, big whoop
I hope they don't schedule them at ANZ Stadium on the same night as a Giants game. They might get lost and contaminate really footy supporters. ;)
Munro_Mick
19 Aug 2011, 09:37
This reminds me of the comment once that the greatest environmentalist had a car with a V12 engine and was helping use fossil fuels up as quick as possible to accelerate the move to cleaner fuels.
The greatest RL people should've been helping establish AFL in West Sydney knowing that it would accelerate (or instigate) NRL head office activities in the region.
I still speculate the NRL know only too well that soccer is their bigger threat, or, was it considered such but may not be anymore?
TheLandlord
25 Aug 2011, 00:38
Wow, more games with crap attendences of around 5K, big whoop
Based on the 12 home games that the WS NRL clubs have had this year, at an average of 19k (dogs), 18k (tigers), 16k (eels) and 13k (panthers), they have managed to draw a combined 627,000 people through the gate to watch NRL this season.
This is despite the WS NRL teams coming 6th, 10th, 11th and 16th. Hardly inspiring form.
In order to equal NRL attendance next year, the Giants will have to attract 78,000 people per game to each of their 8 games in Sydney.
But yeah, sure, bag out league crowd. Giants will definitely do better. :rolleyes:
Why are we comparing the Giants to all four clubs? Wouldn't it make more sense to compare it to the average, i.e. 16.5k per game? Maybe 50/50 the Giants will beat that.
Sure, the 5k was an exaggeration (http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2011.html says only one crowd less than 6k this year, but it was at Penrith)... doesn't make any more sense to go the other way.
Based on the 12 home games that the WS NRL clubs have had this year, at an average of 19k (dogs), 18k (tigers), 16k (eels) and 13k (panthers), they have managed to draw a combined 627,000 people through the gate to watch NRL this season.
This is despite the WS NRL teams coming 6th, 10th, 11th and 16th. Hardly inspiring form.
In order to equal NRL attendance next year, the Giants will have to attract 78,000 people per game to each of their 8 games in Sydney.
But yeah, sure, bag out league crowd. Giants will definitely do better. :rolleyes:
That is a ridiculous comparison , seem's similar to the observation that more people watch league on tv than AFL . Get a grip dude .
the distributer
25 Aug 2011, 10:16
fear!!!
TheLandlord
25 Aug 2011, 13:34
Of course it's a ridiculous comparison. But when an idiot like giant force makes deliberate inflammatory comments about 5k crowds to western Sydney derbys, of course people like myself, who want to see both sports succeed, are going to pull him into line.
My point was simply if you bag out league crowds in the area, you must be confident of the AFL support being better.
I'm not going away because I want to see the giants succeed, but as long as GF keeps making unnecessary jibes about the teams ppl in west Sydney already love, I'll continue to stick up for them.
I've said many times, the storm in melbourne (and rebels) are always very respectful of AFL. All we ask is you are respectful of our game and we're happy to give yours a try.
GiantForce
25 Aug 2011, 15:59
People know what sarcasm is? Right?
Of course it's a ridiculous comparison. But when an idiot like giant force makes deliberate inflammatory comments about 5k crowds to western Sydney derbys, of course people like myself, who want to see both sports succeed, are going to pull him into line.
My point was simply if you bag out league crowds in the area, you must be confident of the AFL support being better.
I'm not going away because I want to see the giants succeed, but as long as GF keeps making unnecessary jibes about the teams ppl in west Sydney already love, I'll continue to stick up for them.
I've said many times, the storm in melbourne (and rebels) are always very respectful of AFL. All we ask is you are respectful of our game and we're happy to give yours a try.
Ok cool Landlord , I understand your stance better now :) but I guess as a casual observer it seems sometimes that some NRL games are absolutely deserted , nearly as bad as sheffield shield cricket ! Just a passing judgement maybe those scenes are deceiving .
PyroCrow
25 Aug 2011, 21:44
In order to equal NRL attendance next year, the Giants will have to attract 78,000 people per game to each of their 8 games in Sydney.
But yeah, sure, bag out league crowd. Giants will definitely do better. :rolleyes:
GWS will struggle to get an average of 10,000 to home games next year. This doesn't matter. The AFL has made the youth of Sydney their key target for the future of this team, on the field and off it. GWS is focused on building a long term supporter base for the future because they know that adults, who have been supporters of Nrl their whole lives, will go out of their way to reject this new "threat" to their beloved sport. The negative view presented by the media has alot to do with this. As a result crowds will probably generally be poor for the next 2-3 years and all the Nrl media personalities will celebrate the "failure" of the new franchise. However, over time more people get used to GWS and there may be a wider acceptamce of the team by the general population but the major groups of supporters will be made of the kids that GWS is working with now around Western Sydney (in schools and communities). This team will eventually draw greater crowds than most of the Nrl teams in Western Sydney but this will take time, the AFL knows this and are in it for the long haul.
Of course it's a ridiculous comparison. But when an idiot like giant force makes deliberate inflammatory comments about 5k crowds to western Sydney derbys, of course people like myself, who want to see both sports succeed, are going to pull him into line.
My point was simply if you bag out league crowds in the area, you must be confident of the AFL support being better.
I'm not going away because I want to see the giants succeed, but as long as GF keeps making unnecessary jibes about the teams ppl in west Sydney already love, I'll continue to stick up for them.
I've said many times, the storm in melbourne (and rebels) are always very respectful of AFL. All we ask is you are respectful of our game and we're happy to give yours a try.
NRL crowds are objectively terrible. With the exception of the Broncos, teams genuinely struggle to get people through the gate. It is perhaps the greatest issue the game faces. Regardless of whether GiantForce went about it the right way, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with pointing this out. That said, I will admit that there have been some healthy crowds for West Sydney derbies over the past few seasons.
GWS will struggle to get an average of 10,000 to home games next year. This doesn't matter. The AFL has made the youth of Sydney their key target for the future of this team, on the field and off it. GWS is focused on building a long term supporter base for the future because they know that adults, who have been supporters of Nrl their whole lives, will go out of their way to reject this new "threat" to their beloved sport. The negative view presented by the media has alot to do with this. As a result crowds will probably generally be poor for the next 2-3 years and all the Nrl media personalities will celebrate the "failure" of the new franchise. However, over time more people get used to GWS and there may be a wider acceptamce of the team by the general population but the major groups of supporters will be made of the kids that GWS is working with now around Western Sydney (in schools and communities). This team will eventually draw greater crowds than most of the Nrl teams in Western Sydney but this will take time, the AFL knows this and are in it for the long haul.
They'll beat 10k simply because fans travel in the AFL and there's a significant population of ex-pat Victorians who will go along because they need their footy fix. Neutrals will ensure healthy crowds initially regardless of what support the Giants have. I have, for example, been to seven Swans games this season and only one featured the team I follow. I'll no doubt do the same next season with the Giants.
PyroCrow
25 Aug 2011, 22:16
They'll beat 10k simply because fans travel in the AFL and there's a significant population of ex-pat Victorians who will go along because they need their footy fix. Neutrals will ensure healthy crowds initially regardless of what support the Giants have. I have, for example, been to seven Swans games this season and only one featured the team I follow. I'll no doubt do the same next season with the Giants.
I doubt GWS will draw greater than an average of 10K but if they do good on them. Hostility, is too great in Sydney at the moment an this will only intensify next year. Also people in Sydney (I know I live here) are notoriously "token" in their support for their teams. When everyone is winning its all good but if things aren't going your way then get off the band wagon as fast as you can. There probably won't be alot of wins to speak of next season so "fickle" Sydney-siders may lose interest after the novelty wears off. Also, the groups you mentioned have factors which affect the final calculation of crowds. Ex-pat Vic's already have teams that they generally go for and going to watch your team crush a young GWS isn't exactly entertaining (see Port games this year). They won't contribute heavily to crowd totals. The best hope GWS is probably the neturals (I'm one, I will probably get a membership and watch a few games myself) and the die-hards (there will be a few but not many you'd imagine, similar to GC). The fact that several games will be played in Canberra may also affect crowd figures.
PyroCrow
25 Aug 2011, 22:30
NRL crowds are objectively terrible. With the exception of the Broncos, teams genuinely struggle to get people through the gate. It is perhaps the greatest issue the game faces. Regardless of whether GiantForce went about it the right way, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with pointing this out. That said, I will admit that there have been some healthy crowds for West Sydney derbies over the past few seasons.
Nrl generally doesn't place the same importance on crowds and memberships that the AFL does. For the Nrl its all about tv ratings, not that there is anything wrong with this from a financial standpoint at this moment, however this will probably come back to haunt them in the future with the introduction of GWS which does value these things. I don't mind Nrl but it is digging itself into a hole that it might struggle to get out of down the road. Poor management away from the field may be the real killer for Nrl, not the introduction of GWS. Playing games in Western Sydney is a start for them but most of the damage has already been done, GWS just have to come in and clean-up the mess (no offense). Anyway, is this an AFL board isn't it? Back to GWS discussion...
Football Tragic
26 Aug 2011, 20:47
Interesting to mention that the NRL have never put a great deal of enforcis on attendance or membership. I would suggest that neither has the AFL as an organisation. Rather it is a traditional, cultural expectation. AFL is a better live game than the NRL and with the NRL played in Sydney, where getting to the grounds is extremely difficult, high attendances is never been realistic.
The AFL's high attendance figures is not a recent push. Aussie Rules football has had incredibly high figure everywhere it has been played for over 100 years. It's not a Melbourne 'thing' either as the local leagues in WA, SA and Tas were always extremely robust well before they first fielded teams in the national competition.
Changing this culture in Sydney is the NRLs, and now GWS, greatest challenge. I believe that the GWS will build up a loyal fan base very much the same as Sydney has done. The difference though may be in the financial capabilities of both groups - the Swans fan are predominately from higher socio-ecconomic backgrounds where I would expect many GWS supporters may be less financially secure. This may prove to develop a great rivalry due to this difference alone.
I had the joy of being operated on yesterday (gall bladder removal) and had to spend overnight without digital TV in the maternity ward (lol, shortage of beds), so everyone was amping up the Manly v Storm game. Turned it on and to be honest if that was the best game of the year I sure as hell don't want to see even a middling game. 20 minutes wasted with moronic boofheads swinging at each other, then getting sent off and swinging at each other again! I cannot see people from outside the existing tribes jumping onto the League bandwagon if this kind of behaviour is applauded as it seemed to be.
Anyway, that was nearly as painful to watch as being cut open.
westie88
27 Aug 2011, 11:32
I had the joy of being operated on yesterday (gall bladder removal) and had to spend overnight without digital TV in the maternity ward (lol, shortage of beds), so everyone was amping up the Manly v Storm game. Turned it on and to be honest if that was the best game of the year I sure as hell don't want to see even a middling game. 20 minutes wasted with moronic boofheads swinging at each other, then getting sent off and swinging at each other again! I cannot see people from outside the existing tribes jumping onto the League bandwagon if this kind of behaviour is applauded as it seemed to be.
Anyway, that was nearly as painful to watch as being cut open.
It was disgusting and doesn't belong on any sporting field. Manly fans are also the worst supporters you will ever come across. Brett Stewart's hit on Adam Blair was a dog act - third man in to a one on one fight, running in at full pace and king hitting someone. Should get wiped out for half of next season (& I like Stewart as a player normally, but that was disgusting).
This is exactly why more and more people are turning to AFL. Rugby league think the reason they're losing popularity is they don't have enough fights anymore, and they egg on teams to "bring back the biff", but they don't realise that our culture is changing, and that's not what most people want to see anymore. It's not that they need to go back to how they were, they need to realise society has changed and focus on the role of their clubs in the community.
I've just returned from my yearly Sydney obligations except this year this year I made sure it coincided with the 2011 IC .Pretty much found the usual - absymal media for AR ,super hyped media for rl and reasonable for most others .Two big articles about the the threat of AFL in the West within a week , both mentioned what rl was doing nothing about the threat .This kind of frustration drives some of us to actually point rl crowds .Because of the weather there were so some very low rl crowds but then the Swans aren't that flash this year either .
Because people are looking at traditional clubs I don't think people understand what GWS is doing exactly .They are out there in the WS trying to attract people from the WS and at places like Blacktown you'll see young people wearing the charcoal and orange .They are not expats ,old or rich .At the IC the biggest group of onlookers were probably the Tongans chearing their country .The GWS is pushing the WS identity and this has been recognised in politics and commerce .When the rl actually mention the "war" or focus on WS activities they are actually reinforceing the WS identity and GWS .With the Canberra association and the limited number of games in Sydney and two derbies the GWS attendances should be OK .The showgrounds are well served by public transport and the stadium should be heaps better than the Olympic one .
bumsonseats
5 Sep 2011, 21:28
If the Sydney Swans crowds are anything to go by when they are struggling, the GWS will be lucky to get 10,000 to their games this year.
You mean the Sydney crowds that have averaged 30k, 26k and 25k the last three times they missed finals? The last time Sydney averaged less than 20k was back in 1995, and the world's changed a little in over 15 years.
If the Sydney Swans crowds are anything to go by when they are struggling, the GWS will be lucky to get 10,000 to their games this year.
Ex-pats and interstate fans will make it very hard for them to average less than 10k. There's always a tonne of opposition supporters and neutrals at Swans games and it'll be the same with GWS.
GWS will average 15K - 20K.
Even North was puling 10K - 13K when playing in Sydney in the 90s.
Plus, the Swans game (50K) will bump up the average. Pies & Bombers will draw 30K if promoted properly.
I will try to head up when the Hawks play.
Crowds will be OK. Doubt we'll see one under 10K unless it hails.
boncer34
8 Sep 2011, 13:03
I'll take any bet anyone wants to make about crowds averaging less then 10K. Simply wont happen, it will be inflated at the very least with games against Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton and Sydney. Over 10K average easily.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say 15k in our first year with no games less than 10k. But wouldn't put money on it. :)
Edit: What's the capacity at Manuka?
GiantForce
8 Sep 2011, 15:50
Manuka = 15,000
Really good for games against low drawing clubs. I'd expect most/all games in Canberra to be pretty much full