View Full Version : Darren Bradshaw - worth a punt?
spindoctor
11 Oct 2003, 17:24
You have to admit Bradshaw has been sensational for Westies this season, and it's a tough call for Brisbane to say he's not good enough when they didn't even give him a game.
He could be exactly the bullocking, pack-breaking, strong-marking key forward the Crows need. He is still young and has plenty of time.
While some may comment on the similarities to Adam Richardson, firstly he was older... and I actually think he was poorly treated by Ayres. For someone who dominated SANFL so regularly, I think he was given very little chance to prove himself. He performed well in the pre-season and in his first AFL game he led well and kicked 1.4, probably a result of nerves - if he had kicked 4.1, there would have been a certain spot the next week. Then he had a bad half against Richmond and was never allowed back again.
I think he deservd a few more games to prove himself, again Ayres makes a bad decision.
But anyway, back to Bradshaw, what do you guys think? He could be cheap and definitely worth giving a few games, he is clearly a class above SANFL.
Another punt might be Brant Chambers - very strong hands, hard-leading and his kicking was unbelievably accurate this season...I don't know what happened to him, but suddenly he went from a poor chance to goal to nearly an automatic chance...
Too short for a KPP at AFL level.
Bockchoy67
11 Oct 2003, 17:41
I have my doubts on Darren Bradshaw.
Sure, he dominates in the SANFL and is consistent, but I don't think he has the fitness and capabilities to do well in the AFL.
But, he may be a dark horse in all of this. If anything, the Crows may pull a rabbit out of the hat and pick up Bradshaw late in this year's draft.
It'll be interesting to see.
Oh, and welcome to BigFooty Spindoctor. :)
spindoctor
11 Oct 2003, 18:28
DaveW, remember his brother up in Brisbane is the same height and he is supremely effective when given full-forward responsibilities in Lynch's absence - shows that you can be an effective KPP at 188 cm. There have been plenty of good full-forwards around Bradshaw's height.
While he may not be tall, he is quick off the mark and has shown good recovery skills with the Bloods (not all his goals come from marks). He has incredibly strong hands, which as Beinke showed at times, and Burton has also shown, can make up for a lack of height
What I also like about him is he is built like a tank, not a spindly KPP like the big-rapped Hentschel who is easily knocked off the ball. Bradshaw has the bullocking ability to really break through packs and go body-on-body with big defenders. I feel the Crows need this. Perrie is our closest to this, but I think Bradshaw is moreso than Perrie.
acg_204*
11 Oct 2003, 18:30
Originally posted by spindoctor
DaveW, remember his brother up in Brisbane is the same height and he is supremely effective when given full-forward responsibilities in Lynch's absence - shows that you can be an effective KPP at 188 cm. There have been plenty of good full-forwards around Bradshaw's height.
Wasn't Modra 188 cms?!
macca23
11 Oct 2003, 18:33
Originally posted by acg_204*
Wasn't Modra 188 cms?!
He was. But he had a leap on him like a gazelle. Bradshaw hasn't.
spindoctor
11 Oct 2003, 18:36
Refer my last post :D
Also would like to hear everyone's thoughts on Richardson's short spell with the Crows and Brant Chambers.
acg_204*
11 Oct 2003, 18:40
Originally posted by spindoctor
Also would like to hear everyone's thoughts on Richardson's short spell with the Crows
I think Richardson could've been used better. In the game we mentioned in the other thread against Richmond, we had a packed forward line and Richardson was given no space to lead into. While I don't think Richardson was ever going to set the world on fire, I really believe that Ayres didn't use him well.
Bradshaw is 185cm. So the comparison with Beinke (185) and Burton is a good one (184). Although the latter has a great leap.
His brother at Brisbane - who is a bit more agile - is 186cm.
I just don't know if a bustling full forward who's a good couple of inches short of being a true KPP will work at AFL level.
spindoctor
11 Oct 2003, 18:59
True, DaveW, but I think he is definitely worth a punt in either a late draft pick or the pre-season draft. Anyone who kicks 97 goals in the quite strong SANFL competition is worth a look, he is younger and thus more able to be worked with than Richo anyway, and maybe it's just me, but I really do think the Crows need a bullocking, pack-busting full-forward who is a strong lead and grab.
With the pinpoint accuracy of our gun midfield unit, his strong leading would be exactly what we need, rather than just bombing into the hot spot where we lack any real contested-marking players - Stevens isn't strong enough, Perrie can do it occasionally but not often enough, Carey can't do it anymore and Burton is needed on the wing.
Stiffy_18
11 Oct 2003, 19:54
Welcome spindoctor;)
No to Bradshaw
No to Chambers
Not every good SANFL player makes a good AFL player. The likes of Brodie Atkinson, Ben Nelson, Justin Cicolella and others come to mind.
Darren's brother Daniel (http://lions.com.au/default.asp?pg=players&spg=playerprofile&personid=13105) is 190 cm.
Now Darren Bradshaw is good at SANFL level because there are not many defenders strong enough to keep him quiet. At AFL its a completely different story. Darren is 185 cm and has no leap. He is also not mobile enough to be a flanker at AFL level. If you want to be undersized KPP at AFL these days then you bloody have a GREAT leap and strong pair of hands OVERHEAD.
Majority of Darren's goals are from marks on a quick lead. He doesn't take as many overhead marks as you would expect from your Key forward.
Do you honestly think that Leigh matthews would let go of a KPP if he thought he could cut at AFL. Don't forget the reason he was selected by Brisbane in the first place was to see if he can replace Lynch.
Its a simple equation really, Darren is not tall enough to be a KPP at AFL level and he is not mobile enough for a flanker.
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Darren's brother Daniel (http://lions.com.au/default.asp?pg=players&spg=playerprofile&personid=13105) is 190 cm.
AFL 2002 says 186cm.
My 2003 pocket guide says 190cm.
Did he grow 4cm in 12 months as a 23yo? :confused:
Stiffy_18
11 Oct 2003, 20:06
Originally posted by DaveW
AFL 2002 says 186cm.
My 2003 pocket guide says 190cm.
Did he grow 4cm in 12 months as a 23yo? :confused: Why don't we just take the average and settle that he is 188 cm:p
He is taller than 186 cm.
When you see him standing alongside Bassett they are same height take away cm or 2. He is definetly taller than 186 cm
spindoctor
11 Oct 2003, 20:38
Point taken stiffy, but again I said his height was not why I was interested in him, more his strong hands, strong leads and ability to bullock and bust packs.
Even in the AFL there aren't going to be that many defenders who will 'outmuscle' him easily...he is a BIG boy...
Stiffy_18
11 Oct 2003, 20:45
Originally posted by spindoctor
Point taken stiffy, but again I said his height was not why I was interested in him, more his strong hands, strong leads and ability to bullock and bust packs.
Even in the AFL there aren't going to be that many defenders who will 'outmuscle' him easily...he is a BIG boy... Yes but you have take into consideration game plans. With Westies the whole forward line is built around Bradshaw. Their plans A, B, C are kick it to Bradshaw.
I remember that pre-season game against Brisbane in 2002. Andrew Crowell gave him an absolute bath.
Any player that can be well held by Ben Nelson of all people has a very poor shot at AFL:p
spindoctor
11 Oct 2003, 22:38
Nelson is a strong fella, and he wasn't THAT bad at AFL level...never had that much of a regular opportunity,a bit hard done by IMO.
And remember...players can get better. Look at Perrie this year...so quoting Bradshaw from the 2002 pre-season is a long time ago.
PAfolwr
12 Oct 2003, 10:55
From the couple of games I have seen of him, once you take away his strength, there is not much else that is "upper" AFL standard.
As Stiffy has said, things like above average speed, strength, height, skill level, attitude etc will give you a big advantage in the SANFL and the like nowadays.
To succeed at AFL level you need to be good/above average at more than just one of those things and have no real weak spots, as a large number of players have found out in the past.
MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
12 Oct 2003, 11:52
I am afraid I am not conviced about Darren Bradshaw either. From what I have seen (granted not much) he is a Full Forward. Next season that position will be King Careys. With fingers crossed that Stevo will be 100% and with a full pre season behind him he will hold down CHF.
However, if the AFC took a punt, I think that he would need a HUGE pre season at AFL level to get him back to an appropriate level of fitness and weight (whilst in no place to judge others on weight, I do beleive he is a bit hefty!).
So my short answer is no, I don't think he would be something we are interested in.
k
xx
Russian
12 Oct 2003, 17:33
Bradshaw is worth a punt from somebody - still young enough to be rookie listed i think, if he's still available in the rookie draft, pick him up to replace Carey in 2005 (assuming he retires after next year)
Kane McGoodwin
12 Oct 2003, 18:28
Originally posted by DaveW
Too short for a KPP at AFL level.
I think this is the key problem with Bradshaw. reckon he would be just a poor-man's Welshy.
BTW, welcome to BF Spindoctor! :)
lozstar
12 Oct 2003, 22:35
A big no-no to Bradshaw...
One of them in the state is already one too many!
Stiffy_18
12 Oct 2003, 22:44
Originally posted by lozstar
A big no-no to Bradshaw...
One of them in the state is already one too many! He was talking about the one that is already in SA;)
lozstar
12 Oct 2003, 22:50
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
He was talking about the one that is already in SA;) haha, ooops, my bad! :o
MaccasNeighbour
13 Oct 2003, 10:35
I'm getting tired of this pre-occupation with the athleticism of footy players.
When did it suddenly become true that the best athletes make the best footy players?
Is Robert Harvey a great athlete? Is Roger James a great athlete? Here we have a couple of short, fat b@stards who you wouldn't look twice at if you didn't know who they were. Yet these guys know how to get the ball and they know how to use it.
Surely results on the field should be a greater measure of a player's ability, not how how high they can jump or how fast they can run 20m.
Bradshaw is no Matthew Lloyd but he can take a strong leading mark and knows where the goals are. Can the Crows say we have anyone like this in the team? Carey can't lift his arms over his head, Perrie can't take a simple chest mark, Stevens and Welsh are injury prone.
spindoctor
13 Oct 2003, 11:00
Couldn't have put it better, Macca.
Stiffy_18
13 Oct 2003, 13:20
Are you guys serious??????
Robert harvey has ENOURMOUS stamina as does James. Gone are the days when you could have a player that has no athletic ability but is a good footballer.
You guys have to realise that the bar has been lifted in terms of athletic cut off point. A perfect example is a bloke called David Kellett from Cetral District. The kid has got all the footy ability in the world, was the captain of the U18 SA side and has been regularly racking up 30 + possesions in underage comp. Has a great footy brain but absolutely no athletic ability. Guess what, if he had half decent athletic ability he would be drafted. He will most likely miss out.
Same goes with Rutten. Last year as a 19 year old he was in SANFL team of the year. Best CHB in the comp. Unless his improves athletic side of his game he will not make it.
These days its important to strike a balance. Bradshaw is a terrific player at SANFL level but he has got no hope in hell at AFL level. A good SANFL footballer doesn't make a good AFL footballer.
naughty monkey
13 Oct 2003, 13:34
Originally posted by MaccasNeighbour
I'm getting tired of this pre-occupation with the athleticism of footy players.
When did it suddenly become true that the best athletes make the best footy players?
Is Robert Harvey a great athlete? Is Roger James a great athlete? Here we have a couple of short, fat b@stards who you wouldn't look twice at if you didn't know who they were. Yet these guys know how to get the ball and they know how to use it.
Surely results on the field should be a greater measure of a player's ability, not how how high they can jump or how fast they can run 20m.
Bradshaw is no Matthew Lloyd but he can take a strong leading mark and knows where the goals are. Can the Crows say we have anyone like this in the team? Carey can't lift his arms over his head, Perrie can't take a simple chest mark, Stevens and Welsh are injury prone.
yes, the Brownlow medallist, who does it much better than Bradshaw.
You don't understand why Bradshaw would fail miserably.
Everyone who stands him would either be stronger than him or quicker than him. He nearly always has the physical advantage at SANFL level. When he doesn't, he looks very ordinary. e.g. the day our own Ben Nelson stopped him.
If you had to pick a full forward from the SANFL to play for the Crows the only one who would have any hope of succeeding is Hargraves.