Tell him he's dreaming

[Captain Blood]

Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams has confirmed that his club is now seeking two first round draft selections in exchange for Nick Stevens. "If you look at the draft, Nick Stevens is better than any of the players in the draft," Williams said. Collingwood Carlton and Melbourne are considered the three leading suitors for the gifted midfielder.


@ first round draft picks Chocco - get your head out of your ar&e

[Porthos]

That quote sounds funny, but he's just restating Port's position from the start - two first round picks. Its an entirely reasonable expectation.

[Yze_Magic]

Originally posted by Captain Blood
Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams has confirmed that his club is now seeking two first round draft selections in exchange for Nick Stevens. "If you look at the draft, Nick Stevens is better than any of the players in the draft," Williams said. Collingwood Carlton and Melbourne are considered the three leading suitors for the gifted midfielder.


@ first round draft picks Chocco - get your head out of your ar&e


im willing to bet Cooney, Tenace and Sylvia will be way better players than Stevens

[superstar]

What a load of crap. He is soft. Dead set soft.

[CowboyFromHell]

Originally posted by Yze_Magic
im willing to bet Cooney, Tenace and Sylvia will be way better players than Stevens

I'll second that.

If they want two first rounders, then they have a LONG way to go. The Bullies and us are the only teams with two picks in the first round, and we won't be giving both of them up - so where does that leave Port?

Carlton cannot do it. Collingwood need to give up quality to get another early pick, as do Essendon. They want to keep Solomon, but he's the only player likely to pick up a good enough pick for them.

Hmmmmmmmm..... interesting!

[RzrBlade]

1 first round draft pick (+ extra later round picks or player(s) ) = acceptable

2 first rounders = chocco keep smoking those doobies, they seem to be a good strong blend.

[Yze_Magic]

i gotta admit though, Chocko Williams cracks me up

some of his after match press conferences are sensational. I dont know why, but he just makes me laugh

[NUCKLE]

If that is the case Nick Stevens will play for Essendon or Carlton in 2004 and beyond.

The Bombers will offload Soloman for a first rnd pick to Richmond or do the combo deal with Melbourne incorporating Jacobs for pick 5.

This means that they will have two first round picks. But Sheedy will not trade two picks in the first round. He wants pick 5 from the Demons 'cause he can see somethin in a kid. So they have no chance of pulling that deal.

If the Port Pretenders want to play hard ball then Stevens will just leave them with nothin and Carlton will get him in the pre-season draft.

Take what you can get Williams and stop being a tool and overating a player who obviously hates your guts.

[Clayton]

Stevens should just nominate himself into the preseason draft he's undecided where he wants to go and i would love to see Choco's reaction to losing a quality player for nothing.:D

[morgoth]

Port have their heads where the sun don't shine.

I do not want my club to trade for him if they are fair dinkum about that being the price. If that is the case I hope he goes to one of the Melb clubs for free in the pre-season draft.

Ridiculous, only guy worth two high first rounds is Pavlich IMO. Think about it, first round picks are gold, so Port potentially get two Nick Stevens for a 23 old receiver!!!!!!

The lack of blood supply to Chocko's head from choking has made him delusional. Tell Port to rack off and go after Brown or Solomon.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by morgoth
Ridiculous, only guy worth two high first rounds is Pavlich IMO. He would get a good bit more than that. Ask any Freo fan if that would be enough. Also, I don't see where Port said they wanted two high first round picks either.

The only stumbling block for Collingwood is that they don't like to give quality to get quality, which is why they're generally such a nothing come trade week.

[moe sizlak]

The only stumbling block for Collingwood is that they don't like to give quality to get quality, which is why they're generally such a nothing come trade week.
by Port Ho.

Didnt Collingwood land Woewodin last year?

WIlliams has asked for this but he's just trying to bump up his value, the pies, dons blues and dees arent going to be that stupid.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by moe sizlak
Didnt Collingwood land Woewodin last year?Did they give up quality to get him? Or did they just get a very good deal due to Melbourne's cap mismanagement?

[morgoth]

We gave them a first round pick which is on the money for a 26 year old.

For the pies the only thing we miss out on is opportunity, we can use our picks, trades elsewhere. For Port you run the risk of getting absolutely nothing.

You can jam it where the sun don't shine for all I care.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by morgoth
We gave them a first round pick which is on the money for a 26 year old.So you'd take a first round pick for Anthony Rocca then, yeah?

For the pies the only thing we miss out on is opportunity, we can use our picks, trades elsewhere. For Port you run the risk of getting absolutely nothing.I'd say the main risk we run is of strengthening our nearest rival in return for nothing by giving Collingwood a stupidly good deal like that. I reckon that view would be universal through the club.

You can jam it where the sun don't shine for all I care. You seem to care more than that.

[llosis]

Originally posted by Captain Blood
Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams has confirmed that his club is now seeking two first round draft selections in exchange for Nick Stevens. "If you look at the draft, Nick Stevens is better than any of the players in the draft," Williams said. Collingwood Carlton and Melbourne are considered the three leading suitors for the gifted midfielder.


@ first round draft picks Chocco - get your head out of your ar&e

The Port guys think this is a fair deal.

I wonder though is there any history to support this position?
(and of course comparing players etc is difficult etc etc...)

[Voice of Reason]

It's an ambit claim - unions do it all the time - he can say whatever he likes to pump up the market.

I don't care if he says he wants Michael Gardiner, Nicole Kidman and a year's supply of Tim-Tams, it doesn't mean the other party to the trade has to come to the party unless they want to.

[Joel]

Originally posted by Porthos
Did they give up quality to get him? Or did they just get a very good deal due to Melbourne's cap mismanagement?

Pick 17, IIRC.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by llosis
The Port guys think this is a fair deal.

I wonder though is there any history to support this position?
(and of course comparing players etc is difficult etc etc...) Headland deal last year is probably best. Unlike Headland, Stevens has been consistently good since game one, and has actually performed as the #1 midfielder with the #1 tagger on him. Also unlike Headland, Freo aren't bidding.

Even so, Port's asking price is less than Brisbane got last year which was #5, #20something, first 18 player from a finalist.

[Zombie]

Originally posted by llosis
The Port guys think this is a fair deal.

I wonder though is there any history to support this position?
(and of course comparing players etc is difficult etc etc...)

Plenty, Des Headland would be the most recent example, and N.Stevens is a far better player than Headland.

[captain ebert]

Originally posted by Captain Blood

first round draft picks Chocco - get your head out of your ar&e

funny how i knew straight away it was going to be another dig at choco.....even without a mention of him on the thread title.....

typical form catain blood.....:o

[Seb]

Ahhh, the irony in this situation is outstanding.

If Stevens is so good, and more to the point the draftees are so bad (not up to the quality of Stevens), why are Port Adelaide so keen to obtain a couple of them?
:rolleyes:

If you ask me, every club should just say - "Stuff this, let him go into the pre-season draft"

Would be very comical ;)

[morgoth]

Yep with Carlton losing the ability to trade into round one and two they are effectively out of action. As such all Nick has to say is, Collingwood are my first pick, with Carlton my second, at that point Port are stuffed as they either:

1. Deal with the Pies
2. Find someone else that Stevens will agree to
3. Watch him go to the Blues via the pre-season draft

All comes down to Stevens. Pies will not pay up so hopefully for Port someone else agreeable comes to the table.

If this was a key backman I would want the Pies to pay up, but an outside running midfielder is not what we need (IMO).

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Ahhh, the irony in this situation is outstanding.

If Stevens is so good, and more to the point the draftees are so bad (not up to the quality of Stevens), why are Port Adelaide so keen to obtain a couple of them?
:rolleyes: Two main points.

1) Choco isn't in charge of recruiting (thank god). He, like Daniher, needs to prove himself next season or he could lose his job. From that perspective, he's right - none of the draftees are likely to be as good as Nick in the short term......really of the picks actually being offered to Port so far, there's a very realistic chance that they'll never be as good.

2) Port want first round picks because they're actually reasonably close to the cap with plenty of players to re-sign next year. Also Port might want first round picks because maybe they have their own trade target picked out.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by morgoth
As such all Nick has to say is, Collingwood are my first pick, with Carlton my secondAnd yet, he still hasn't said that, despite ample opportunity.

[dave_27]

Essendon r out. Sheedy doesnt give up his 1st round draft picks.

[Seb]

Originally posted by Porthos
Two main points.

1) Choco isn't in charge of recruiting (thank god). He, like Daniher, needs to prove himself next season or he could lose his job. From that perspective, he's right - none of the draftees are likely to be as good as Nick in the short term......really of the picks actually being offered to Port so far, there's a very realistic chance that they'll never be as good.

2) Port want first round picks because they're actually reasonably close to the cap with plenty of players to re-sign next year. Also Port might want first round picks because maybe they have their own trade target picked out.

It's still ironic though.

If the top 10 draftees on offer aren't as good as Stevens, and since Port are trying to replace Stevens, wouldn't the logical replacement be somebody who is as good as, if not better than Stevens? So if that's the case, why do they want two 'average players', or two players who are far behind Nick Stevens in terms of development and quality?

Choco is rebuking the top 10 draftees (which he wants 2 of, suprisingly enough. You have to wonder why, since they're not even in the same league as Stevens) who may or may not be as good as Stevens in the long term. The fact is however, potentially they have both the skill and smarts to be a far superior player than Stevens will ever be. Not to mention another few more years of football in the barrel.

[Ford Fairlane]

Isn't it amazing how a bit of selective quoting can start such a frenzy. Here's another quote from the same article that may lend a bit of perspective ... and as far as I can see, it's the only direct quote attributed to Williams re the Stevens trade ...


“Ideally we’d like to get a similar player, because we want to keep our form together.”

“We recruited him as a 17-year-old and worked him up for six years and he’s certainly improved his footy. You’d expect to get something in return for all that effort.

“You certainly don’t want to go backwards, so to get someone of Nick’s standing is going to be very difficult, but it’s what we’re after.”

[Ford Fairlane]

And for those who like a good quote, here's one from Max Stevens, Nick's manager, as reported in today's Herald Sun ... for those poeple who keep saying Nick should tell Port to get stuffed blah blah blah ....


"Personally, he has three or four preferences," Stevens' manager, Max Stevens, said yesterday.

"But we're not declaring it because we'd rather keep it open as there are a number of very good options.

"His priority is to look after Port Adelaide because they have been good to him over the past six seasons.

[morgoth]

In that case we are out, we do not have the picks to satisy Port, we should move on to something else.

[Lions43]

Originally posted by Captain Blood
Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams has confirmed that his club is now seeking two first round draft selections in exchange for Nick Stevens. "If you look at the draft, Nick Stevens is better than any of the players in the draft," Williams said. Collingwood Carlton and Melbourne are considered the three leading suitors for the gifted midfielder.


@ first round draft picks Chocco - get your head out of your ar&e

Chocco loves talking tough but he just NEVER walks the walk. Its quite amusing really. He is dreaming if he thinks Nick Stevens is worth 2 first round picks. He's a pretty handy player but he just ain't that good I'm afraid.

He hardly has the upper hand anyway. If he tries to play too much hard ball Stevens could end up in the draft and Williams will get **** all for him. Wouldn't that just top Chocco's year........

He's obviously trying to bluff a club that really wants Stevens into giving Port the world for him and he thinks guys like Malthouse, Sheedy etc won't see his trash talk for what it is :rolleyes:

[feher]

Originally posted by Ford Fairlane

"His priority is to look after Port Adelaide because they have been good to him over the past six seasons.

what a load of bs, if that was the case why didn't he resign with them?

This is nothing more then Max trying to get the 'world' for stevens so port can be happy nothing more nothing less!

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Lions43
He is dreaming if he thinks Nick Stevens is worth 2 first round picks. Actually, he's quite right.

[feher]

Originally posted by Porthos
Actually, he's quite right.

He's worth 1 first rd pick tops, and even then why? you could draft a player that may play 12+ years in a midfield easily in a draft (if things work out right), stevens isn't anything special

edited:
can to could
will to may

[Porthos]

Originally posted by feher
what a load of bs, if that was the case why didn't he resign with them? The final straw was probably when the Port Adelaide-Port Melbourne merger fell through.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by feher
He's worth 1 first rd pick tops, and even then why? you could draft a player that may play 12+ years in a midfield easily in a draft (if things work out right), stevens isn't anything special All right then, here's a project. Go through the first round picks for the past six or so years, write down which ones are actually better than Stevens, and look at the percentage. It won't be very high.

[feher]

Originally posted by Porthos
The final straw was probably when the Port Adelaide-Port Melbourne merger fell through.

sorry don't follow, care to explain?

[feher]

Originally posted by Porthos
All right then, here's a project. Go through the first round picks for the past six or so years, write down which ones are actually better than Stevens, and look at the percentage. It won't be very high.

granted but i would rather take that gamble (the rewards are far greater, especially to a team at the bottom), and whats to say that stevens doesn't play like sh*t in his new home? and ends up being delisted/traded in 3 yrs or so? its a gamble either way you look at it.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by feher
sorry don't follow, care to explain? He likes Port, but Port are not in Melbourne. This is the entirety of why he is leaving Port.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by feher
granted but i would rather take that gamble (the rewards are far greater, especially to a team at the bottom), and whats to say that stevens doesn't play like sh*t in his new home? and ends up being delisted/traded in 3 yrs or so? its a gamble either way you look at it. It could happen, but its a lot less likely than a first round picked player ending up being crap.

Nick Stevens has been a consistent player since his first game, and has improved in almost every season. He also has actually played the #1 midfield role with some success, so he's not at all likely to be a Headland style disappointment - there has been no-one covering his flaws at Port this year. He is arguably the safest bet available in this trading period.

[feher]

Originally posted by Porthos
All right then, here's a project. Go through the first round picks for the past six or so years, write down which ones are actually better than Stevens, and look at the percentage. It won't be very high.

Here is my list:

96 - none
97 - Power (at least equal at worst imho), Tarrant (different pos),
98 - none
99 - Hasleby, Pavlich, McPharlin, Murphy
00 - Riewoldt, Kerr (first rouder i think, not quite as good but he's younger)
01 - Hodge (see kerr), Ball (see kerr), Judd, Polak, Del Sanot (see kerr)
02 - Goddard (see kerr), Wells (see kerr)

There is still a chance, and i would rather take that chance as i have said earlier. These can be argued this is nothing more the my opinion.

[Porthos]

No worries, but I think you can see Port's perspective there.

[feher]

Originally posted by Porthos
No worries, but I think you can see Port's perspective there.

No not really you are potientially giving up 2 players of 12+ yrs for a player with potientially (again there is nothing saying he won't be bad in a new environment) of 6/7 yrs

[Seb]

Originally posted by Porthos
No worries, but I think you can see Port's perspective there.

Errr... actually, I can't.

Pavlich and Haselby or Pavlich and Murphy - far superior to Stevens in ability when combined.

Pavlich alone is a better player, you could almost forget the other two.

Hodge, Ball, Judd, Polak and Del Santo were obviously part of an amazingly strong draft, but even so, as has been heavily documented, there's plenty of talent in 03.

And even last season, when the draft was supposedly weak, some amazing talent has been unearthed in Goddard and Wells (and they've only had a year to mature, who knows what's around the corner!)

Don't underestimate the draft. It's the only real way to build a side, and stars are certainly there, regardless of how the draft is perceived by the media or club scouts.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Pavlich and Haselby or Pavlich and Murphy - far superior to Stevens in ability when combined.

Hodge, Ball, Judd, Polak and Del Santo were obviously part of an amazingly strong draft, but even so, as has been heavily documented, there's plenty of talent in 03.

And even last season, when the draft was supposedly weak, some amazing talent has been unearthed in Goddard and Wells (and they've only had a year to mature, who knows what's around the corner!)OK. Now to the best of my knowledge, the highest pick Port have been offered is #5. That eliminates all of the players you've named except Murphy and Dal Santo.

It would be fair to say that now, and even at the same age, Stevens is/was ahead of those two. Now count out all the duds that don't work out. If you're not doing that, you've missed the point. First round picks are good, very early ones are better, but they're still a big risk.

Don't underestimate the draft.I don't. I do think a lot of people overestimate it sometimes though, especially in regards to trading.

It's the only real way to build a side, and stars are certainly there, regardless of how the draft is perceived by the media or club scouts. Sure, but the trick is picking the 18 year olds that will be those stars. Give us one of the ones that will definitely be a star for Nick Stevens and we have a deal. However, no one can do that.

[feher]

What is so special about stevens? he is a reciever, he's no good to a side that can't win the ball to give it to him. There are plenty of recievers in the comp. are they worth 2 first rd picks also? i can't remember the last time stevens one a game of footy.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by feher
What is so special about stevens? he is a reciever, he's no good to a side that can't win the ball to give it to him.I'd have thought that this year helped disprove this theory. No Francou there to dish it out, no Primus standard ruckwork, yet Nick was still getting the pill.

There are plenty of recievers in the comp. are they worth 2 first rd picks also? i can't remember the last time stevens one a game of footy. So you don't think he's ever been BOG?

[Seb]

OK. Now to the best of my knowledge, the highest pick Port have been offered is #5.

Every club has shown interest in acquiring Nick's services, thus one could say, that every first-round draft pick is an option?

As far as we really know, no definite draft pick has been offered anyway.

Sure, but the trick is picking the 18 year olds that will be those stars. Give us one of the ones that will definitely be a star for Nick Stevens and we have a deal. However, no one can do that.

This isn't really relevant to trade week, this would depend heavily on the quality of Port Adelaide's scouts - and arguably to a lesser extent, the quality of the draft itself

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Porthos
Sure, but the trick is picking the 18 year olds that will be those stars. Give us one of the ones that will definitely be a star for Nick Stevens and we have a deal. However, no one can do that.

Do Port's recruiting staff have so little confidence in their ability? ;)

[melbournemartin]

i think chocca should swap with his brother in the sanfl

lol

[moe sizlak]

Port ho you cant really stick up for nick stevens, i remember on several occassions in the past you have bagged him for being soft and a traitor.

[stefoid]

Dont know what the fuss is. Id swap picks 17 and 18 for Stevens anyday.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by moe sizlak
Port ho you cant really stick up for nick stevens, i remember on several occassions in the past you have bagged him for being soft and a traitor. Find me some quotes then.

[blackdiamond]

Didn't the Crows give Pick 2 & 18 for Wayne Carey last year?

There is more upside in securing a player like Nick Stevens than Wayne Carey and this is why two first round picks are very realistic.

Carey was great but he isn't going to improve while Stevens best is in front of him.

[WoeyFanclub]

williams can choke on a **** we don't need him that badly we would be willing 2 give up that much 4 him

[TGR]

I don't believe Stevens is worth 2 first rounders and I don't believe Choco does either. It's just the art of negociating, you bump the price up but eventually settle for whats fair unless the other party is stupid enough to fall for the first request.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Porthos
Its an entirely reasonable expectation.

For a 24 yo (almost) midfielder who's so good he's never made all australian...

[Dave]

Originally posted by Porthos
Even so, Port's asking price is less than Brisbane got last year which was #5, #20something, first 18 player from a finalist.

Brisbane also gave up Cupido.

[Zombie]

Originally posted by Dave
For a 24 yo (almost) midfielder who's so good he's never made all australian...

He's been very close on about 3 occassions including this year. I'd rather a player who is consitently just overlooked than a player who makes it once then goes AWOL for a few years

[marcuz]

A good player and a high pick for stevens...if anybody is stupid enough to waste two first round picks on him then good luck to them

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Zombie
He's been very close on about 3 occassions including this year. I'd rather a player who is consitently just overlooked than a player who makes it once then goes AWOL for a few years

yeah, yeah, sounds just like Port's finals campaigns.

he's not been all australian, end of.

[blackdiamond]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
yeah, yeah, sounds just like Port's finals campaigns.

he's not been all australian, end of.

This coming from a supporter who's finals record resembles that of Port Adelaide since 1999.

[Lions43]

Originally posted by Porthos
Actually, he's quite right.

Aren't you the bloke who keeps defending Tredrea's finals performances by blaming it on Port's midfield? What's it to be? Is Tredrea overrated or is Stevens?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I suppose but if Port get 2 first round picks for Stevens, unless its some convoluted trade where they get picks 9 and 15 or something, I'll be very surprised. He's definitely not worth two picks in the first 10 and for mine he's not worth say - pick 2 and pick 12.

Personally I wouldn't give any pick under about 5 for him, let alone 2 first round picks. I think he's, dare I say it......... a receiver. A very useful receiver mind you but not an in and under player who can win you finals.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Lions43
A very useful receiver mind you but not an in and under player who can win you finals.

In and under players only won't win you finals. They need to give the ball to somebody. And if that somebody uses the ball well, we give them plenty of credit. Stevens is such a player. Is he worth two first round picks? Probably, but it depends on the club. But picks have a lot of unknown variables in them, whereas Stevens is a proven gun.

[Zombie]

Originally posted by Stevo
In and under players only won't win you finals. They need to give the ball to somebody. And if that somebody uses the ball well, we give them plenty of credit. Stevens is such a player. Is he worth two first round picks? Probably, but it depends on the club. But picks have a lot of unknown variables in them, whereas Stevens is a proven gun.

Exactly right.

[Lions43]

Originally posted by Stevo
In and under players only won't win you finals. They need to give the ball to somebody. And if that somebody uses the ball well, we give them plenty of credit. Stevens is such a player. Is he worth two first round picks? Probably, but it depends on the club. But picks have a lot of unknown variables in them, whereas Stevens is a proven gun.

I take your point and I agree in a way. I still maintain that Buckley is primarily a "receiver" and I rate him one of the best 2 or 3 in the league. Stevens is not of that quality though and he is the issue here - not "receivers" in general.

You talk about receivers playing their part in winning you finals, but if its true that "players make their reputation in September" then Stevens still has to be seen as just a "good" player as he hasn't really had a good final yet IMO.

That's all it comes down to here - opinions. I wouldn't give 2 early draft picks for Stevens if my life depended on it but it seems you would..... fair enough.

It will be interesting to see what Port do get for Stevens and how he performs at his next club.

[Porthos]

Originally posted by Lions43
Aren't you the bloke who keeps defending Tredrea's finals performances by blaming it on Port's midfield? What's it to be? Is Tredrea overrated or is Stevens? Our midfield is overrated. The midfield is more than one player, as I would think you'd appreciate with three Brownlow medallist running through there.

After Francou and Stevens, who is next? James, and from there its all part-timers, not genuine centre square players. The reason we beat Essendon in finals is because theirs is much the same these days. And finals are all about midfield.

[Groove]

who said tredrae doesnt perform in finals? he absolutely killed Essendon this year, as for the collingwood final...its a bit hard when there is no delivery to him and you are getting tag teamed by a big doofus named Cloke.


*quote*
"It feels soft and shiny mate"

[Lions43]

Originally posted by Groove
who said tredrae doesnt perform in finals? he absolutely killed Essendon this year, as for the collingwood final...its a bit hard when there is no delivery to him and you are getting tag teamed by a big doofus named Cloke.



And regarding the other 7 finals he's played in for little or no serious impact?????

There is no player in the competition whose gap between his home and away form and finals form is bigger.

Sorry mate, its easy to beat up on an average Essendon (not that I could do it) but big Wazza is a flop in finals and he's proven it time and again.

I've posted this opinion in about 6 threads now in the last 4 months so I suppose its getting boring, but its just the way I see it and I did predict it again this year before the finals.

If he proves me wrong next year I'll gladly come in here and admit it but the years keep ticking by and Tredrea (and a few of his mates) keep going missing in September.

Tell me the midfield got flogged so what could Warren do if you like and I'll just tell you to look at the 1985 Grand Final and watch Dermott Brereton - a true champion forward who knew how to deliver in big games and found a way to contribute in most finals he played no matter what the circumstances.

[Zombie]

Originally posted by Lions43
There is no player in the competition whose gap between his home and away form and finals form is bigger.

God you talk some crap, go check your facts, Tredders has a better finals record than he does a H&A record.

Sorry mate, its easy to beat up on an average Essendon (not that I could do it) but big Wazza is a flop in finals and he's proven it time and again.

How come Essendon are only an average side after we beat them? You still haven't proven one finals match when Tredrea has been a flop, let alone time and again.

I've posted this opinion in about 6 threads now in the last 4 months so I suppose its getting boring, but its just the way I see it and I did predict it again this year before the finals.

And you were wrong, Tredrea had a solid finals series this year including one of the most inspirational performances you'll ever see on a footy field.

[Lions43]

Originally posted by Zombie
God you talk some crap, go check your facts, Tredders has a better finals record than he does a H&A record.



Well he's been All Aust CHF 3 years running now if I'm not mistaken, but he would not have made one All Australian team picked on finals alone in those 3 years.

I'm all for everyone having their opinion, but on this occasion I have to say that your comment above is absolute bullsh*t.

I don't have the facts in front of me, but I've watched every one of Port's finals, including their first against North in 1999, and other than Essendon this year, he has not had one match which measures up to his best home and away form.

Trot out the marks, kicks, handballs and goals stats from the last 3 years and your statement will be shown up for what it is - utter crap. I know stats don't always paint the full story, but please, tell me how you justify your belief that his finals form is better than his home and away form.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by Scott
This coming from a supporter who's finals record resembles that of Port Adelaide since 1999.

How do you figure that? you are the worst finals chokers in AFL/VFL history.
The facts support that. Something to be proud of.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Lions43
I take your point and I agree in a way. I still maintain that Buckley is primarily a "receiver" and I rate him one of the best 2 or 3 in the league. Stevens is not of that quality though and he is the issue here - not "receivers" in general.

You talk about receivers playing their part in winning you finals, but if its true that "players make their reputation in September" then Stevens still has to be seen as just a "good" player as he hasn't really had a good final yet IMO.

That's all it comes down to here - opinions. I wouldn't give 2 early draft picks for Stevens if my life depended on it but it seems you would..... fair enough.

It will be interesting to see what Port do get for Stevens and how he performs at his next club.

Stevens had a good game against Sydney in the qualifying final. I was bemused to see him hiding in the forward line for most of the first half. He killed Sydney in the second half.

I'm not convinced that Stevens is worth two first round picks to Essendon. We do have a balanced list, so only getting into the draft at the second round may not be a big disadvantage. But we do have the likes of Rama, Winderlich, Reynolds who just need to get out onto the paddock, so Stevens may not improve us all that much.

But then, if he's not worth it to Essendon, who are crying out for a skillful, hard running outside midfielder, then you have to wonder to which club he'd be worth two first round picks...

[Stevo]

Originally posted by Porthos
Our midfield is overrated. The midfield is more than one player, as I would think you'd appreciate with three Brownlow medallist running through there.

After Francou and Stevens, who is next? James, and from there its all part-timers, not genuine centre square players. The reason we beat Essendon in finals is because theirs is much the same these days. And finals are all about midfield.

Agreed. Jason Johnson is a gun, but really needs genuine support. Hird has been injured far too often, Misiti is past his prime, Mark Johnson will get there but isn't at the moment, etc. We really missed Ramanauskas this year, much more than most people would realise. But with him, Reynolds, and Winderlich, we should have quite a strong midfield in a couple of years.

[blackdiamond]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
How do you figure that? you are the worst finals chokers in AFL/VFL history.
The facts support that. Something to be proud of.

Ports finals record is terrible but Adelaide's record of 2 finals wins from your last 6 appearances puts you in the same bracket.

[Portmagpies]

Has anyone on this board heard of an ambit claim?