View Full Version : Brett Lee
clucas91
13 Oct 2003, 18:52
Woeful stuff today.
1/96, very poor.
Why do the selectors persist with him? Gillespie, McGrath, Bichel would be my first choice pacemen.
But we all know who will be out of the team when McGrath is back. :rolleyes:
The worst part is that he knew that Dizzy was and MacGill were both out of action and still couldn't find the extra effort. Bugger the talk about Steve Waugh it's time for Lee to go.
Bring back Kaspa
I think he always got to bowl down wind with the new ball as well.
Waugh gives him every advantage time after time, Lee fails to produce the goods.
Originally posted by Slax
Bring back Kaspa
Got two 9 fors in an innings in county cricket...so you never know;)
wagstaff
13 Oct 2003, 23:34
Since Lee returned from injury for the 2001 Ashes tour, he has played 27 Tests for 87 wickets at the very dismal average of 36.45, yet has played every Test bar two in that whole period.
That's about all that needs to be said.
Demon37
13 Oct 2003, 23:42
It's probably time for Bichel to replace Lee in the Test side (when McGrath returns).
He is clearly our best ODI bowler though. He was simply unstoppable during the VB Series and World Cup this year.
Some people do have short memories.
IceTemple
14 Oct 2003, 00:18
Demon27 Wagstaff hates Lee with a passion (or at least appears to) as all he does is bag the bloke. However I will agree that Lee has been disappointing recently.
In his ODI no probs but in tests he just doesn't seem to be getting it together. He should spend a couple of days watching tapes of McGrath & Gillespie, slow down and just drum it on the same spot ball after ball like they seem to be able to. He seems to be either to full or too short. I am not sure if that has something to do with his speed or just a technique problem.
You cannot fault Bichel in the least as he generally does what is rqrd when asked. Would he be so good as a regular bowler? Hard to say as it could be that as a "fringe" bowler he tries harder when given a chance or/and he is more of a "shock" bowler as the teams focus on trying to survive the other 3.
That seems to be how it works with Lehman.
goaldrush
14 Oct 2003, 09:54
Originally posted by clucas91
Woeful stuff today.
1/96, very poor.
Why do the selectors persist with him? Gillespie, McGrath, Bichel would be my first choice pacemen.
But we all know who will be out of the team when McGrath is back. :rolleyes: No....
Why don't you get off his back.
He had to bowl a huge spell and did well despite the conditions.
Only morons like yourself look at the negatives.:mad: :rolleyes:
Black Thunder
14 Oct 2003, 10:17
I'm slowly beginning to lose patience with Lee as well. He has the fear factor but that is no where near what it once was in the days when helemets didn't exist.
He has too much talent not to be carving up at this level so it is disapointing.
But I don't think Bichel is the answer. He's just not penetrative enough at this level.
A lot of people would've said that about McGrath when he first begun, but Bich is no into his 30's. I'd like to see Noffke given a shot as he seems to be next in line (perhaps just behind Williams).
For the following guys it's a huge year, because they can get themselves a test shot with some good bowling in the SS;
- Ashley Noffke
- Paul Rofe (very good line and length bowler, but probably lacks a yard of pace)
- Nathan Bracken (not particularly impressed by him, but the selectors are)
- Beau Casson (LA Chinaman, who can turn the ball, but unlikely to see two spinners come into the team)
- Michael Clark (WA quikie, still young and had a great season last year)
- Matt Inness (can't be ignored for much longer, despite obvious technical problems)
bluechampion
14 Oct 2003, 10:45
I agree that Lee is a frustrating bastard. All the talent in the world, but lacks the mental discipline to play test cricket. And I agree that he's Waugh's pet-bowler which frustrates me no end. Once Ponting is captain, I think we'll see a change.
Jars458
14 Oct 2003, 10:48
I thought Shaun Ervine was much more impressive than Lee.
Lee probably gets a gig because he is the youngest player in the team.
I think we need to start blooding some youth in there.
ViperV10
14 Oct 2003, 12:53
I agree, Lee was bowling average. When he was brought on to try and break the last partnership (when the lesser batsman was facing...not Streak) he needed to put it on a good line and length..with a couple of yorkers to rip through him. What did he go and do? All balls too short, that is not counting the bouncers he did..and all off the line of the stumps.
The Spornstar
14 Oct 2003, 12:55
Originally posted by Jars458
Lee probably gets a gig because he is the youngest player in the team.
Or because....nah, I won't say it. ;)
He is a marketable commodity for ACB or CA or whatever they are called these days. That is why he is there for every test. You might say he is the kournikova of the Australian team.
He ****s me and is only effective against tail enders and even then they give him a bit of stick.
Brett Lee was a major disappointment in this test.
He needs to get it together this summer or else he could (should) be consigned to the fast bowlers scrap heap.
What happened to "perform or else"? That's what has made our batting so formidible, bit more of that in the bowling stocks wouldn't go astray.
Ray Nolan
14 Oct 2003, 13:54
Not surprised at all because he is the most overrated cricketer in the world. Most of his wickets are tailenders, and in this Test the only wicket he got in that 1/96 spell was a very dodgy caught behind decision on Mark Vermeulen. The guy can bowl fast and that's it, and he also bounces tailenders (Alex Tudor last season anyone?) which to my mind is pathetic. Australia would be a better side if he wasn't there.
Bichel v Lee; The stats:
2000
Lee 35/597 average 17.05 RPO 3.11
Bichel 7/124 average 17.71 RPO 2.85
2001
Bichel 4/96 average 24.00 RPO 3.00
Lee 30/1087 average 36.23 RPO 3.60
2002
Bichel 13/289 average 22.23 RPO 3.55
Lee 25/1032 average 41.28 RPO 3.83
2003 (so far)
Bichel 22/639 average 29.04 RPO 3.21
Lee 32/1053 average 32.90 RPO 3.43
red+black
14 Oct 2003, 17:58
Originally posted by goaldrush
No....
Why don't you get off his back.
He had to bowl a huge spell and did well despite the conditions.
Only morons like yourself look at the negatives.:mad: :rolleyes:
yeah, you really deserve to be in here. and no, i won't respond again.
Any connection between Lee bowling better in ODIs and Ponting being the captain of the ODI team? The most recent series aside, Waugh has often used Lee for intimidation rather than as a proper bowler.
I think the other reason Lee gets a permament gig in the test side is that no-one is seriously pressing for his spot. With McGrath unavailable and Bichel in the team, can you really say there's a fast bowler worth adding to the test line up? Williams appears to be next, followed by Bracken, but I'd say they're no better than Lee.
We need a couple of young talented fast bowlers making inroads, and soon.
red+black
14 Oct 2003, 18:10
i was about to post some stats, but stasguru is too damn slow
clucas91
14 Oct 2003, 18:19
Originally posted by goaldrush
No....
Why don't you get off his back.
He had to bowl a huge spell and did well despite the conditions.
Only morons like yourself look at the negatives.:mad: :rolleyes:
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Did well despite the conditions?
Yeah, he was bowling on a really tough pitch for fast bowlers! :p
I guess the question must be asked - is Australia as well placed as we might think? If we're struggling to come up with decent replacements for Gillespie and McGrath past Bichel then we won't be on top of the world for much longer. Then again a lot of other teams seem to be on a downward slide anyway.
Don't forget he's a chucker too!
If (and it's a big if) Williams and Bichel both get bags in Sydney, and Lee doesn't perform, does he possibly drop to 5th choice paceman when Gillespie and McGrath are back?
Just a thought..........
goaldrush
15 Oct 2003, 11:07
Originally posted by clucas91
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Did well despite the conditions?
Yeah, he was bowling on a really tough pitch for fast bowlers! :p Give him a break. You are a moron who deserves to go and face a Brett Lee beamer because you wouldn't know how good he is.
bluechampion
15 Oct 2003, 11:28
I don't know if a chap who gets the honour of playing for Australia with SIGNFICANT financial renumeration deserves 'a break'.
If anyone else fails to perform in their job they are fired. And that's what it is, HIS JOB. And he's not doing it properly.
Really, Suzi, chill. Everyone deserves to have their opinion without others resorting to abuse in reply. Frankly i would have thought you knew better.
Originally posted by acg_204*
Bichel v Lee; The stats:
2000
Lee 35/597 average 17.05 RPO 3.11
Bichel 7/124 average 17.71 RPO 2.85
2001
Bichel 4/96 average 24.00 RPO 3.00
Lee 30/1087 average 36.23 RPO 3.60
2002
Bichel 13/289 average 22.23 RPO 3.55
Lee 25/1032 average 41.28 RPO 3.83
2003 (so far)
Bichel 22/639 average 29.04 RPO 3.21
Lee 32/1053 average 32.90 RPO 3.43
Good work Acg.
I'd be reckoning a few of Lee's wickets in 2003 were against the Bangla's too. Adding to the overwhelming evidence....
Originally posted by goaldrush
Give him a break. You are a moron who deserves to go and face a Brett Lee beamer because you wouldn't know how good he is.
If I dare answer this seriously...
I think the issue is most Aussie supporters want to see Brett Lee do well because when he's on song he's exciting to watch and no doubt makes the Aussie team that much more formidible.
But at the end of the day how long can you continue to ignore the results that he's putting up. Brett Lee is not taking test match wickets which he is employed to do. End of Story.
As has been said, if we hada fit mcgrath and gillespie and there was a line of young up and coming speedsters knocking em over in shield cricket he'd be gawn by now. but that isn't the case. Let's hope he gets his act together.
IceTemple
16 Oct 2003, 00:23
Someone on here said he ONLY takes tailenders. However that is actually completely wrong. He in fact OFTEN takes top order batsmen and the problem we had with him in this test is that he DIDN'T take the out the tailenders.
I also agree with what someone else posted: Waugh maybe his biggest problem. He has stated all along he wants Lee to bowl fast and furious with lots of short stuff. This has not helped Lee in the slightest.
Ponting on the other hand wants more accountable bowling which Lee produced in the WC to be the best bowler for Australia if everyone remembers.
Is someone able to find stats on how many dropped catches there were off Lee's bowling in WI? When I watched it seemed to happen in every innings and was mainly off him. MAybe I was just seeing things?! :D
Wicked Lester
16 Oct 2003, 12:52
Originally posted by IceTemple
I also agree with what someone else posted: Waugh maybe his biggest problem. He has stated all along he wants Lee to bowl fast and furious with lots of short stuff. This has not helped Lee in the slightest.
Ponting on the other hand wants more accountable bowling which Lee produced in the WC to be the best bowler for Australia if everyone remembers.
This is an interesting point. Has Waugh used Lee in a way that beneifts the team ATM, but risks Lee's longer term development and hence the teams future prospects? Difficult to prove, but a fascinating theory.
Ponting strikes me as a long term thinker. He made some comments in Melbourne recently in which he suggested that some pretty hard decisions lay before the selectors sooner rather than later if Australian cricket was to avoid too many retirements compressed into a short timeframe.
Talktothehand
16 Oct 2003, 13:20
Not a fan of Brett Lee. Only a fan of the greyhound named after him, and even then I had to force myself to place a bet on the bloody thing.
clucas91
16 Oct 2003, 21:35
Originally posted by goaldrush
Give him a break. You are a moron who deserves to go and face a Brett Lee beamer because you wouldn't know how good he is.
Oh yeah, just like all the tailenders he always tries to hit on the head?
IceTemple
16 Oct 2003, 22:35
Don't be a moron clucas91, you make it sound like it's a sin. What cricket do you follow? EVERY other fast bowler in the world does the same thing. Do you know the WI? Did you ever watch them bowl? They consistently bowled bounces to tailenders (ie OTHER bowlers). Why do you think we now have the bouncer laws? It is not just to stop wasted deliveries.
Show me where Lee bowls more of them than Shoib. For that matter what about Akram and the others of his ilk.
Gee wiz ppl get some perspective not just blinded stupidity.
dr nick
17 Oct 2003, 06:56
Originally posted by IceTemple
Gee wiz ppl get some perspective not just blinded stupidity.
i get the impression people try to cut down our own aussie teams / players far more than opposition players.
Show me where Lee bowls more of them than Shoib. For that matter what about Akram and the others of his ilk.
And to prove that point Akhtar just hit Gary Kirsten with a rising ball and Kirsten retired hurt. He was on 53 at the time.
But I rather think Brett Lee is there for his marketing appeal over his talent. But we all know the Aussie team isn't picked on talent alone.
Freo Big Fella
17 Oct 2003, 23:02
I think you have to remember that Lee is a very conditions-specific bowler. He always bowls fairly poorly at the SCG, and he's just come off a test at the WACA where the pitch had all the consistency of a wet sponge. If the 1st test had been played in mid-january it wouldve been a completely different story.
ZeeTheClown
18 Oct 2003, 13:05
Just heard on ABC Radio that Brett Lee was being bundled into a car to get scans on his 'abdomen' - apparently he could be the next big name to fall this summer. Bichel as our front-line bowler!!??
Russian
18 Oct 2003, 15:35
Originally posted by ZeeTheClown
Just heard on ABC Radio that Brett Lee was being bundled into a car to get scans on his 'abdomen' - apparently he could be the next big name to fall this summer. Bichel as our front-line bowler!!??
Confirmed. Lee is out of this test and the tour of India. Bichel, Williams & Bracken to try and knock over Dravid, Tendulkar & co. Should just stay home
Originally posted by ZeeTheClown
Just heard on ABC Radio that Brett Lee was being bundled into a car to get scans on his 'abdomen' - apparently he could be the next big name to fall this summer. Bichel as our front-line bowler!!??
Uh-oh,step forward Doug Bollinger,Anthony Stuart or Don Nash.
thewhippersnapper
18 Oct 2003, 15:47
Yeah Lee is injured.
Something like Gillespies injury. Hopefully he though isn't missing from the triangular series against India and New Zealand.
Our Bowling attack is really weak now but Bichel bowled well picking up 4 wickets.
Russian
18 Oct 2003, 17:29
Originally posted by BomberAUS
Hopefully he though isn't missing from the triangular series against India and New Zealand.
Wish he wasn't but Brett Lee has been ruled out of the triangular series. He's torn an abdominal muscle
from baggygreen.com.au
Brett Lee has been ruled out for the rest of the second Test against Zimbabwe, and for the tri-series in India later this month. Diagnostic scans taken after he left the field in the second Test have revealed that he has a torn abdominal muscle, and will take around four weeks to recover.
`I am bitterly disappointed," said Lee. "I've worked really hard on my fitness and have basically gone through the past three seasons unscathed, so to miss this tour now is a major blow. I pretty much knew from my first ball this morning that something was wrong. There are times when I have stiffness and I can pretty much bowl through it – that's part and parcel of bowling – but this certainly felt worse. But hopefully we've identified the problem early and it won't turn into a bigger problem."
Errol Alcott, the physiotherapist of the Australian team, said, "The MRI and ultrasound revealed a disruption in Brett's stomach muscle. He will placed in a rehabilitation program and I am anticipating a recovery period of at least four weeks."
lozstar
18 Oct 2003, 18:29
you all happy now that's he's injured so that he can't bowl for a while??
So maybe someone more deserving might get a chance? You bet. But no doubt it will be Bracken getting that chance, so it won't be someone deserving at all.
Never happy... ;)
wagstaff
18 Oct 2003, 18:55
What odds he tore his stomach muscle doing one of those fist pumping celebrations after he got a wicket?
Originally posted by lozstar
you all happy now that's he's injured so that he can't bowl for a while?? Ecstatic.
Originally posted by wagstaff
What odds he tore his stomach muscle doing one of those fist pumping celebrations after he got a wicket?
That was my first thought when I heard he was injured.I thought he might've been celebrating getting a tailender.
Adelaide Hawk
19 Oct 2003, 22:34
I did a quick calculation and the total number of Test wickets taken by Lee and all the people knocking him is 133. Since Lee had taken 133 Test scalps, that leaves absolutely NIL for the rest of you.
I've never read so much dribble, and the lack of knowledge on this forum is frightening.
lozstar
19 Oct 2003, 22:45
Originally posted by DaveW
Ecstatic. What a suprise.
No doubt though, that once he's over his injury he'll be straight back into the side. :)