View Full Version : Kill Bill
Has anyone seen it yet???
Seen the trailer, but don't let that fool you, this movie is 'bloody' graphic.
Going to see it tomorrow nite. Already looking forward to the 2nd part (Volume 2) in February!
clucas91
16 Oct 2003, 21:58
Saw it today, very impressed, Tarantino is back.
Sure is graphic, but who cares. Had a sadistic smile on my face the whole time.
There are two threads about it, on the media & entertainment board.
sandeano
17 Oct 2003, 11:01
On a scene-by-scene basis this is brilliantly made rubbish. As a whole it is a over-indulgent enema of a movie that takes everything that was charming about the trash cinema Tarantino (and I) love but negates it completely by creating it with all the time, money and studio support he wanted.
Akin to a musical group paying a producer millions to do take after take in the studio to get the 'punk' feeling just right.
Oh sure, Kill Bill is often exhilarating and even highly impressive at times, but what is it? It kinda just sits there...with no reason nor rhyme, an overcooked concoction of scrumptious ingredients that really adds up to just nothing at all.
This morning I heard Tarantino on radio talking about how great it was to use to Toho studio minatures and models of Tokyo city that were once used in the Godzilla flicks of the 60s, for his establishing shots of Uma landing in the Japanese capitol. Well yeah...but the makers of Godzilla Vs. Megalon didn't have the $70-odd million that Quentin has to make thier movies and I'm sure that, if they did, they'd would have strived for greater technical excellence, rather than continuing with their cheap methods.
A shot of a jumbo jet being obviously moved by a wire is charming in a 60s Euro spy ripoff...but here it just reeks of a little kid over indulged by fawning studio execs. The whole movie is just redundant. And moving trash from the grindhouse or drive-in and into the multiplex immediately removes any notions of subversity turing it into a corporate grunge-chic, when it always worked best as when Tarantino first experienced it - in the gutter.
Okay, so the guy is just a geek...but I'm sorry, after the maturity and emotional complexity of Jackie Brown I just expected so much more than this empty vessel (albeit, one that makes a hell of a lot of noise).
Sorry QT, but this time you blew it.
I saw it last night. And I won't waste 2 minutes typing up a review like Sandeano did above. 3 words sum it up.
Pile of Sh*t.
Don't waste your money, or your time. Pure over the top garbage.
Won't be sucked in to watch the supposed sequel.
Talktothehand
17 Oct 2003, 11:58
I couldn't disagree with you guys more.
I saw the movie last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Sure, it was violent. Sure, it was campy in a cool 60's/70's way. Sure, it was over indulgent at times but at no stage did I wish I was somewhere else. It held my attention all the way through.
The story was told well and flowed consistently throughout the film. The Manga stylised cartoon section of Lucy Liu's origin paid a great homage to Japanese Manga/Pop culture. The fight scenes were very well choreographed. In fact Tarantino has taken levels of "fake blood use" to a new level.
A top flick and I'll be waiting for the conclusion with baited breath. Just sensational.
Originally posted by Talktothehand
In fact Tarantino has taken levels of "fake blood use" to a new level.
No he hasn't. He just stole the old trick of switching to black and white film so they could use another cheaper substance as blood instead of fake blood. (Like when the original psycho came out, they used chocolate.)
My problem wasn't the violence, like clucas I ****ed myself when she raked that young jap girl in the head with a table leg, sure it was funny, but 2 hours of it?
Also how does a normal woman (yes I know she was some part of some specail martial art group) in a coma for 4 years suddenly wakes up and perform manouvers like she'd just woken up after a 15 minute power nap. The fact she could leep ten feet in the air from standing position and beat 200 armed men, who really should have just shot the stupid bitch anyway, takes a John Woo wa-nk factor to a new level.
clucas91
17 Oct 2003, 16:05
Acutally, there was not supposed to be any black and white...
They just changed it to black and white for USA, UK and Australia due to the graphic nature of it. :rolleyes:
Asian viewers get that scene in full colour.
clucas91
17 Oct 2003, 16:15
I suppose I can write a semi-review now...
I felt the movie was well done, it had terrible shot transitions but they didn't really detract from anything.
This movie really appealed to me due to the hundreds of references to other stuff. Anyone notice the Green Hornet theme? :D
Love those Kato masks.
Besides, the names of the Deadly Viper Assasination Squad, Black Mamba, Cottonmouth, Copperhead and Sidewinder were all names of a group of villains in Captain America comics.
Anyone else remember Bruce Lee's Game of Death? The suit? Anyone? :p
I suppose this crap just appeals to me.
The anime sequences were also a great touch, especially the scene when O-Ren killed the Yakuza boss.
Beware of Japanese schoolgirls guzzling champagne, they may just disembowel you. (loved the ball and chain fight)
Originally posted by clucas91
Acutally, there was not supposed to be any black and white...
They just changed it to black and white for USA, UK and Australia due to the graphic nature of it. :rolleyes:
There goes that theory.
They could just have cut 20 minutes of exagerrated wanton out of it then.
Desredandwhite
17 Oct 2003, 19:45
To hell with the nay-sayers - I loved it ;)
This is one movie that's really polarised the audience. Plenty of people think it's overindulgent trash and hate it... Plenty of people think it's overindulgent trash and love it anyway.
I found it to be a surprisingly interesting and engaging flick - after you get used to the copious amounts of fake blood and violence. IMHO it really depends on what you expected from it and whether you liked HOW Tarantino made it.
Agree with clucas and Talktothehand. Enjoyed it!
Darealrath
19 Oct 2003, 11:08
Amazing.
Never seen anything like it before. The bloke is a genius.
Can someone explain why 'Bill' killed tried to kill her? Cuase I want be watching the sequel.
Originally posted by M29
Can someone explain why 'Bill' killed tried to kill her? Cuase I want be watching the sequel.
Can someone explain this post to me. :confused:
Desredandwhite
19 Oct 2003, 20:31
Originally posted by M29
Can someone explain why 'Bill' killed tried to kill her? Cuase I want be watching the sequel.
On the assumption that the question here is "can anyone explain why Bill tried to kill her" ;)
Here is what I think.
The Bride and Bill were lovers at one point (hence the "it's your baby" confession at the very start of the movie). For whatever reason, she left to marry some other guy. In the end, it's a combination of "you can't just get up and leave this organisation - you know too much about us!" and "you can't just get up and leave me - I'm going to hunt you down and kill you AND your husband".
Originally posted by clucas91
Anyone else remember Bruce Lee's Game of Death? The suit? Anyone? :p
yes...
would love to get a pair of those yellow&black tiger asics...
Originally posted by mantis
Can someone explain this post to me. :confused:
Have you seen the movie?
There is no explianation as to why Bill tries to kill her at all during the film. Just bits about how she was under his command in some secret hit man type squad and how he tried to kill her. Nothing about why he would kill her, ie: she double crossed him, or sold secrets etc.
The main hole in the script.
Originally posted by Desredandwhite
The Bride and Bill were lovers at one point (hence the "it's your baby" confession at the very start of the movie).
Either that, or she's a slag.
In the end, it's a combination of "you can't just get up and leave this organisation - you know too much about us!" and "you can't just get up and leave me - I'm going to hunt you down and kill you AND your husband".
Did anyone else not notice how bad a shot for a suppossed member of an elite snipe squad Bill was? 3 feet away from her and he just clips the side of her head. Anyone knows that a shot straight between the eyes does the job.
Originally posted by M29
Have you seen the movie?
I didn't ask for anyone to explain the movie, just your post, because it made no sense, maybe you should go back & read it.
Darealrath
19 Oct 2003, 21:58
Maybe he didn't want her dead ? with the baby and all.
Why does everything have to be revealed anyway ? The sequel will answer a lot of questions, and if it doesn't then who cares - it's a change from explaining every last detail like nearly every hollywood movie does.
Originally posted by Darealrath
The sequel will answer a lot of questions,
Not for those not planning to see the sequel.
and if it doesn't then who cares -
So it's ok for a character to have no motive as to why he wants her dead?
Originally posted by mantis
I didn't ask for anyone to explain the movie, just your post, because it made no sense, maybe you should go back & read it.
Wasn't to hard. Just remove where i typed 'killed'.
Darealrath
19 Oct 2003, 22:12
Originally posted by M29
So it's ok for a character to have no motive as to why he wants her dead?
My point was that we don't necessarily need to know what the actual motive was. They're effectively ninjas, hardly the most revealing of professions.
Originally posted by Darealrath
My point was that we don't necessarily need to know what the actual motive was.
So then the movie would make no sense, would it?
Darealrath
19 Oct 2003, 22:29
Originally posted by M29
So then the movie would make no sense, would it?
Knowing that there is a motive is enough. It made plenty of sense so far. I do think it will be revealed in the 2nd part though.
thehardaway
19 Oct 2003, 23:58
Saw it tonight, and IMO it blew
Wish I could have those 2 hours back :(
The best film I've seen in ages. Everything was over the top, but not to the point where it becomes camp. The story was fairly easy to understand (I thought so anyway), the actors were great and the Soundtrack is brilliant.
And Uma Rocks.
Grendel
20 Oct 2003, 12:38
If you have seen Asian (HK 80's especially) cinema then anytime you see a QT film your seeing a rehash.
Not to say it can't be enjoyable but anyone that gushes over how
'original' and 'innovative' he is... well.. he aint.
bluechampion
20 Oct 2003, 13:36
M29 - you cannot complain that the film failed to fill in the narrative gaps you clearly desire filled. It is one half of a film. To complain that, because you do not plan on seeing vol.2, the story is not laid out for you is akin to reading half a book and declaring that you are disappointed because the story is not tied up despite there being 500 pages left to read.
Besides, watching a movie, especailly a movie as post-modern as this one, is not supposed to be a passive experience. It does require you to engage with it on some level. In this case, it requires you to fill the gaps.
Narratively, it is a standard revenge movie. The style of film it is, and QT's proclivites, should leave no doubt as to what the motivation is. It is the same motivation as a million other villains in a million other revenge movies. That's half the point of the film. It begs, borrows, steals, pays tribute to, and remakes a million other films. It is familiarity that drives it. To this end you should use your assumed knowledge of cinema- your lifetime exposed to narrative storytelling- to 'have a guess'. Don't be a lazy bastard.
Therein lies, for me, the appeal of the film. It is a film that's as much about genre cinema as it is about a chick with a sword.
sandeano
20 Oct 2003, 14:13
If it is only 'one half of a film', then he should have charged me one half of the cost of a ticket.
Originally posted by M29
Not for those not planning to see the sequel.
If you didn't like it enough to see the sequel, than why do you want to know what happens?:p
bluechampion
20 Oct 2003, 15:26
Originally posted by sandeano
If it is only 'one half of a film', then he should have charged me one half of the cost of a ticket.
Did you not know that it was vol.1?
sandeano
20 Oct 2003, 15:38
Originally posted by bluechampion
Did you not know that it was vol.1?
"Did you not know?" Who is this? The gal from 'I Dream of Jeannie?'
Anyway, up until a few months back it was supposed to be a SINGLE film and after it passed opening date after opening date it became obvious that QT could not cut it down to a manageable length. So, instead of a 3 hour film, Miramax had the brainwave of making us pay TWICE to see the one movie.
On that basis they could have made The Lord of the Rings into 6 films.
Originally posted by Nic
If you didn't like it enough to see the sequel, than why do you want to know what happens?:p
Not what happens, but why it happened.
Originally posted by bluechampion
Did you not know that it was vol.1?
I didn't.
Originally posted by bluechampion
Narratively, it is a standard revenge movie. The style of film it is, and QT's proclivites, should leave no doubt as to what the motivation is. It is the same motivation as a million other villains in a million other revenge movies. That's half the point of the film. It begs, borrows, steals, pays tribute to, and remakes a million other films. It is familiarity that drives it.
I keep hearing about how it's so original etc, yet the whole point is the plot is based on standard revenge movies? How is that original if it's working of cliche'd endings in plot types in other films?
bluechampion
20 Oct 2003, 16:00
Originally posted by sandeano
"Did you not know?" Who is this? The gal from 'I Dream of Jeannie?'
Anyway, up until a few months back it was supposed to be a SINGLE film and after it passed opening date after opening date it became obvious that QT could not cut it down to a manageable length. So, instead of a 3 hour film, Miramax had the brainwave of making us pay TWICE to see the one movie.
On that basis they could have made The Lord of the Rings into 6 films.
Ooh. I phrased something a little differently... scary... :)
So you knew it was vol. 1.
That means you knew what you were paying for when you went in, so how can you have a gripe?
It's like eating chocolate cake and then complaining that it was too chocolate-y.
M-29: I'm sorry you didn't know. That would've been a pain in the ass.
bluechampion
20 Oct 2003, 16:02
Originally posted by M29
I keep hearing about how it's so original etc, yet the whole point is the plot is based on standard revenge movies? How is that original if it's working of cliche'd endings in plot types in other films?
I didn't say it was original.
However, there is a school of thought that prescribes to the theory that the act of originality - of creation - is in the re-contextualising of existing elements into a new whole.
But that's boring old post-modernist theory.
Originally posted by bluechampion
M-29: I'm sorry you didn't know. That would've been a pain in the ass.
Not really, I had a laugh at most of the fighting stuff. Wouldn't say it's the worst movie I've seen so far this year, probably because QT himself didn't act in it.
It's sort of like the hype surrounding Blair Witch Project when it came out. I couldn't understand the hype around it, nor did I enjoy it at all, and never have seen the sequel.
Originally posted by bluechampion
I didn't say it was original.
I meant in reviews.
sandeano
20 Oct 2003, 16:18
Well, it is akin to listening to a hip-hop track and recognisng many of the samples used. Generally I wish I was listening to the originals instead.
This time I was taken back to how much I enjoyed Hywel Bennet as the nutty mongoloid chauffer in "Twisted Nerve", Lee Van Cleef squinting away in "The Big Showdown", Issac Hayes calling dudes 'soulbone' in "Truck Turner" and Truffaut's icy Cornell Woolrich adaptation.
Tarantino's film was enjoyable enough, but personally I reckon he capable of much more.
Portmagpies
20 Oct 2003, 23:02
Another bomb for Mr Tarantino, the most overrated filmmaker in recent memory.
He's nothing more than a B-Grade schlock merchant, the epitome of 'cool cinema,' who seems to regress with each release.
Tarantino is all style, no substance and will go down as a one hit wonder (Pulp Fiction).
The fact he has a cult following says it all really.
Captain Sensible
21 Oct 2003, 14:19
Saw it today. Wish I could get those two hours back.
Fat Pizza
21 Oct 2003, 18:33
I liked the style, but the plot was very thin.
This stuff all went over my head.Originally posted by clucas91
This movie really appealed to me due to the hundreds of references to other stuff. Anyone notice the Green Hornet theme? :D
Love those Kato masks.
Besides, the names of the Deadly Viper Assasination Squad, Black Mamba, Cottonmouth, Copperhead and Sidewinder were all names of a group of villains in Captain America comics.
Anyone else remember Bruce Lee's Game of Death? The suit? Anyone? :p
As usual, I love his soundtrack & I enjoyed the cameo by the 5,6,7,8's.
I'd like to see him try a film without violence for a change. I wonder whether he could...
Swans Upstart
21 Oct 2003, 18:55
Originally posted by Desredandwhite
This is one movie that's really polarised the audience. Plenty of people think it's overindulgent trash and hate it... Plenty of people think it's overindulgent trash and love it anyway.
I found it to be a surprisingly interesting and engaging flick - after you get used to the copious amounts of fake blood and violence. IMHO it really depends on what you expected from it and whether you liked HOW Tarantino made it. Des says it best: Overindulgent trash. Except for one or two moments - like when the Bride spanks the last remaining gangster like a naughty schoolboy - I didn't think it was very funny. Also it got kind of boring after a while, some scenes just went on and on. Really, just another empty Hollywood blockbuster, forget all that post-modernist krap.
B-Grade storyline.
B-Grade thrills.
B-Grade blood splatter.
But Tarantino elevates it to a captivating sofisticated spoof.
Isnt that what Tarantinos all about?
A teenage japanese school girl, fully clad with cheesy school uniform and dorky fringe kicking around a spiked ball hanging of a steel chain. Freaking hilarous.
Mr Eagle
22 Oct 2003, 00:49
Saw it tonight. Some truly fantastic moments which were detracted from by some truly crap moments, most of the latter being thanks to QT's idea of "art".
And spurty blood? Is really, really LAME. Seriously, "less is more". I found not seeing exactly what the Bride did to 'deform' the secretary chick at the end far more chilling than the idiotically fake blood scenes.
Now I did love the Star Trek in-joke at the beginning :p And several parts of the soundtrack were impressively effective, despite being totally out of place in terms of their style. Yeah, it could have been a hell of a lot better, but I'll still see #2.
Originally posted by bluechampion
Therein lies, for me, the appeal of the film. It is a film that's as much about genre cinema as it is about a chick with a sword.
Exactly.
The super-saturation of violence in the film is a big nod to pop culture. There's no doubt that while Tarantino's films rise above the mainstream, he is unashamed of his pop influences. It's really just a hodge podge of scenes (brilliantly directed) pieced together with a poor excuse for a script. The classic revenge flicks have always been thus, but Tarantino takes it to the extreme. After all, he's paying homage to an entire genre and its history in only two hours.
The importance of the violence is also in its overkill, but this sense of overkill only arises because we want to impose some sort of narrative coherence on the film. Mainstream film is predominantly about "telling a story". But Kill Bill is really a set of scenes placed in a temporal order such that it presents itself to us as pseudo-coherent. This is very clever work by Tarantino. He leads us into an illusion of coherence, but in doing so, he mocks the visceral overkill of Hollywood films. He tries to trick us into experiencing the film in a certain way, but the game is to understand that he is trying to trick you.
Kill Bill, at its core, is really no different to other Tarantino films. It's about presenting non-linearity to us under the guise of linearity: classic (if there is such a thing) postmodernism. But the big playing card of Kill Bill is that we trick ourselves because of our pop culture heritage. You're supposed to walk out of the cinema feeling both excited and offended, both disturbed and satisfied. Fundamentally, you sense that you aren't supposed to take it seriously, but yet you also sense that if you pass it off as mere parody that you are missing something important.
It's not Tarantino's best effort, simply because it is too one-dimensional, while Pulp Fiction had a bit more emotional breadth. But it's one of the better movies that has been released this year.
3lions3
27 Oct 2003, 12:50
So...... is she REALLY dead?
Originally posted by speedy
B-Grade storyline.
B-Grade thrills.
B-Grade blood splatter.
But Tarantino elevates it to a captivating sofisticated spoof.
Isnt that what Tarantinos all about?
A teenage japanese school girl, fully clad with cheesy school uniform and dorky fringe kicking around a spiked ball hanging of a steel chain. Freaking hilarous.
that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
this film could be made with the exact same script and dialogue and end up as a straight to video $2 special. it's the directing and style that makes this film.
SydneyBomber
27 Oct 2003, 19:13
Originally posted by speedy
B-Grade storyline.
B-Grade thrills.
B-Grade blood splatter.
But Tarantino elevates it to a captivating sofisticated spoof.
Isnt that what Tarantinos all about?
A teenage japanese school girl, fully clad with cheesy school uniform and dorky fringe kicking around a spiked ball hanging of a steel chain. Freaking hilarous.
yep - agreed on all counts.
I loved it.
Wasn't expecting much, especially hearing its a 'kung fu' movie etc etc, but the minute I realised it was basically a Japanese samurai story, I was hooked.
Japophile alert!
(and no, that's not cause these sell schoolgirls undies in vending machines either you filthy perverts!)
Well I loved it, so nice to have an original movie for a change, well I thought it was original cause well I have never seen a movie like that before which I like.
Hollywood has it's anwser for someone who has fresh ideas hes name is tarantino.
Bought the soundtrack last week and it's only thing I've been listening to since. Excluding the Rap Crap "Ode to O'Ren Ishii" this is one of the best CD I've purchased in the last couple of years. The 10 minute version of "Don't Let me be Misunderstood" is the highlight, but there are so many diferent styles here, and all sound great.
Originally posted by DEVO
Bought the soundtrack last week and it's only thing I've been listening to since. Excluding the Rap Crap "Ode to O'Ren Ishii" this is one of the best CD I've purchased in the last couple of years. The 10 minute version of "Don't Let me be Misunderstood" is the highlight, but there are so many diferent styles here, and all sound great.
twisted nerve is fantastic.
i agree it is an A1 album if you take out the Ode to O'Ren Ishii.
essnickess
4 Nov 2003, 17:47
in the radio ad, uma says "i wanted out, they did me in". so basically that is there reason. maybe some other points as well but thats largely the answer. god movie
Yeah I just bought the sound track then as well, WOW I love it.
thanks for pushing me to buy it devo and noodle.
Originally posted by Arks
Yeah I just bought the sound track then as well, WOW I love it.
thanks for pushing me to buy it devo and noodle.
Geez, that wasn't hard. Can I push you towards a Kangaroos membership for next season.:)
saw this last nite..
enjoyed it immensely...
my only negative... bloody lucy liu...
who i cant stand...
she looks crap, not menacing at all...
her schoolgirl protege truly kicks ass...
shes also in another over the top
violent japanese movie called 'battle royale'
.. which also has bucketloads of blood...
will be lining up to buy:
- the dvd (hopefully with the full colour scenes included)
- the fantastic soundtrack
- the f*ckin game (which will be crap)
damn...
forgot signatures were gone..
was about to change it to:
"my name is buck... and i came to f*ck"
Originally posted by thehardaway
Saw it tonight, and IMO it blew
Wish I could have those 2 hours back :(
meh me too.
an R rated cartoon, and it was totally crap.
the way the blood came p1ssing out everywhere was getting a little bit old by the middle of the movie.
tarantinos other movies are way better then this one.
bennyblues9
14 Nov 2003, 12:05
Finally saw it last night.
Excellent flick.:D
NICK THE PIE MAN
14 Nov 2003, 12:12
Loved it.