View Full Version : Port are not so stupid
st philip
17 Oct 2003, 16:46
When you think about it, why would you do a deal to get rubbish just to do a deal when you are then strengthening an already formidable midfieldin Collingwood. Especially when Port's nemesis in finals recently has been Collingwood!
This way, sure Port end up with nothing but so do Collingwood and Stevens ends up playing with either doggies or carlton who at this stage still look like they won't be threatening anyone for a top 8 position for atleast another couple of seasons.
I for one, applaud Port's thinking. In this case, nothing is better than something and they have got something for nothing in terms of outcomes not affecting their attempt to win a premiership next year!
rUsTy_mAgPiE
17 Oct 2003, 16:50
1- Port loose, port loose a player for nothing, do we loose anything? no we loose nothing and give up nothing its as if stevens was never being traded as far as we are conserned but for port they have just lost there best player for sweet FA
2- whats to say collingwood still cant get him? Stevens can put a 900k a year price tag on his head in the draft, everyone over looks him collingwood takes him then either renegotaties his contract or pays him sweet FA after it runs out to make up for him being over paid
st philip
17 Oct 2003, 16:53
rusty
i never said the pies are a loser in this, i just simply said port are not. sure they lose a player but in the context of their attempt on a premiership next year they have not strengthened one of their rivals.
as for the PSD you are dreaming if you think he will put such a high price on his head for the pies to grab him at pick 15! when you come back to earth think about this point a little more and you'll realise why it is so stupid!
rUsTy_mAgPiE
17 Oct 2003, 16:56
not really, he wants to come to collingwood it is posible for that to happen
if collingwood tell him to nominate 900k im pretty sure he'd do it
and why do people think port arnt looser? they have lost there best player for nothing it my mind thats loosing no mattert the situation
also this they have looked strong and people wont hold them to randsom blah blah **** is a joke, after next year when port loose more finals williams will be gone from coach and it starts again people will mess round the new coach in charge just like stevens did with williams
Ausgard
17 Oct 2003, 17:05
Spin Doctor Board
Port lost huge - they lost a 24 possie / game midfielder and got nothing in return.
To say that at least he will not go to anyone good is a dangerous thing to say in such an even competition. (even if the blues kinda suck a bit at the moment)
morgoth
17 Oct 2003, 17:08
Woo Hoo, well done Pies (just got back from a loooong lunch and saw the news), so much for all the talk about a buying spree etc.
Time to sack some people in our trading department, joke, deal should have been done. Pathetic, we should have come up with a decent trade.
Porthos
17 Oct 2003, 17:08
Ausgard, the real question is whether Port lost any more by sending him to the draft than they would've by trading him for an ordinary pick in a weak draft and a dud that would struggled to make the 22, while simultaneously greatly strengthening the team that contested the last two grand finals.
I think the answer is simple; Port did the smart thing.
Ausgard
17 Oct 2003, 17:13
Originally posted by Porthos
Ausgard, the real question is whether Port lost any more by sending him to the draft than they would've by trading him for an ordinary pick in a weak draft and a dud that would struggled to make the 22, while simultaneously greatly strengthening the team that contested the last two grand finals.
I think the answer is simple; Port did the smart thing.
If Port Beat Collingwood in a grand final (tautology?) by choking their midifleld and I will take everything back.
Otherwise, even if you only got pick 17 (or whatever) and a fringe player - Pick 17 can often get you a bloody decent player and that player will now be playing for the pies rather than for Port.
Keep an eye on this player and see if you need to reconsider your opinion (with all things considered equal)
st philip
17 Oct 2003, 17:14
Originally posted by Ausgard
Spin Doctor Board
Port lost huge - they lost a 24 possie / game midfielder and got nothing in return.
To say that at least he will not go to anyone good is a dangerous thing to say in such an even competition. (even if the blues kinda suck a bit at the moment)
augard
carlton are no threat to port's chances of a premiership within the next couple of years unlike the pies. no spin just calling it as i see it and as it is.
and whilst people keep saying they lost their great midfielder they get francou back from injury who they were without this year. i still don't see this as a loss.
Rusty Magpie,
If Stevens puts 900k on his head, that is what Collingwood, or anyone else for that matter has to pay. There is no re-negotiating or anything like that allowed once a player names his price. The club can either afford him(within salary cap restrictions of course) or they can't.
Looks like its off to the Blues after all for Stevo.
Stevens will be back at Port.
He'll want to play finals not support the ladder on the bottom with Carlton.
Port will have him on their terms.
Collingwood again walk away from a trading period with empty hands. Their strategy of getting value but not paying for it has not worked once. If you consider the O'Brie trade a success than maybe once in 10 years.
Once again, my prediction Stevens to remain with Port.
Well-done Williams!!!!!!
Arsene Wenger
17 Oct 2003, 17:17
You say we are losing a 24 touch per gam midfielder. yep thats correct. we a re also losing a receiver soft cok who doesnt get the hard footy...
Meanwhile regaining a great ball getter and fantastic club man in Josh Francou, also a fit roger james is far more important to port than stevens
with salopke ebert and hall cumin thru we will b just fine
Originally posted by Dogga
Rusty Magpie,
If Stevens puts 900k on his head, that is what Collingwood, or anyone else for that matter has to pay. There is no re-negotiating or anything like that allowed once a player names his price. The club can either afford him(within salary cap restrictions of course) or they can't.
Looks like its off to the Blues after all for Stevo.
If Stevens puts 900K's on his head yes Collingwood can renegotiate but the 900k's stays as part of Collingwood's Total Player Payments. Do they have that much room to carry in their TPP? Don't think so. Like I said Stevo has only two options stay with Port on Port's terms or accept Carlton in the pre season draft on Carlton's terms.
Check/Mate for Stevo unfortunately. Very amateurish on his and his manager's behalf. Obviously they thought Williams was bluffing. Not so as it has turned out.
Stevens has some thinking to do. Carlton is in a great position. I just hope Port did a deal with Carlton to keep Stevens away from Collingwood. Won’t be surprised if the pay back is in next year’s draft. Watch this space in 2004.
The dealings between Carlton and Port should be very interesting next year.
Is this draft manipulation? Sure is but all within the rules.
I repeat watch this space in 2004
rUsTy_mAgPiE
17 Oct 2003, 17:41
Rusty Magpie,
If Stevens puts 900k on his head, that is what Collingwood, or anyone else for that matter has to pay. There is no re-negotiating or anything like that allowed once a player names his price. The club can either afford him(within salary cap restrictions of course) or they can't
you cant negotiate the price on his head, thats not what im saying, i say we draft him with that price, sign him a contract with that price, 2 weeks later renegoiate his contract like alot of players and clubs do quite often and do it that way, its perfectly legal to renegotaite a contract, happens all the time when players are under performing or teams are in cap trouble
rUsTy_mAgPiE
17 Oct 2003, 17:55
Collingwood's Total Player Payments. Do they have that much room to carry in their TPP? Don't think so.
Well we apparently had 700-750 odd thousand before trade period and scotland is gone now who would be on around 100-150
I just hope Port did a deal with Carlton to keep Stevens away from Collingwood.
Sort of like what the scotland for a ****ty pick apparently was?
Their strategy of getting value but not paying for it has not worked once. If you consider the O'Brie trade a success than maybe once in 10 years.
O'Bree wasnt traded he was picked up in the preseason draft, but i think trades such as Brodie Holland and James Clement for pick 39 and Woey for pick 16 wernt to bad considering Jacobs was pick 6 and alvey
Ausgard
17 Oct 2003, 18:13
Originally posted by irel
Collingwood again walk away from a trading period with empty hands.
How often do they come away empty ?
I mean Woewodin wasn't brilliant but he had a decent year that was spoiled by a few lame efforts in the grand final
at the time it was a coup to get a brownlow medalilist at a rock bottom price.
The Shev
17 Oct 2003, 18:31
OK, hypothetical situation.
Pre-season draft.
Bulldogs take Rawlings with their number 1.
Carlton choose Stevens with their number 2, but Stevens doesn't accept coz he doesn't want to play for Carlton. So Carlton either get someone else or pass.
Then, melbourne with pick 3 step in and take Stevens.
Would this be possible, for Stevens to reject Carlton if they picked him?
Porthos
17 Oct 2003, 18:34
No. If he's picked, he's picked. If he doesn't like it, he can sit out of the AFL until next season and re-enter through the national draft.
If he gets past Carlton, Port can pick him.
Originally posted by The Shev
OK, hypothetical situation.
Pre-season draft.
Bulldogs take Rawlings with their number 1.
Carlton choose Stevens with their number 2, but Stevens doesn't accept coz he doesn't want to play for Carlton. So Carlton either get someone else or pass.
Then, melbourne with pick 3 step in and take Stevens.
Would this be possible, for Stevens to reject Carlton if they picked him?
No. If Stevens refused to play for Carlton he woudl have to sit out the year. Any threats to do his would attract severe draft tampering allegations.
Originally posted by The Shev
OK, hypothetical situation.
Pre-season draft.
Bulldogs take Rawlings with their number 1.
Carlton choose Stevens with their number 2, but Stevens doesn't accept coz he doesn't want to play for Carlton. So Carlton either get someone else or pass.
Then, melbourne with pick 3 step in and take Stevens.
Would this be possible, for Stevens to reject Carlton if they picked him?
only if stevens wants to be punished by the afl, and that is if carl draft him and then doesn't sign for his nominated yr + $
Macca19
17 Oct 2003, 18:40
Originally posted by rUsTy_mAgPiE
not really, he wants to come to collingwood it is posible for that to happen
if collingwood tell him to nominate 900k im pretty sure he'd do it
You have 900k in the cap free do you? Dont think so! If he put 900k on his head the AFL would end up telling Collingwood they cant pick him up ala Fabian Francis last year. You pick him up, go over the cap and then Port will get a priority pick and end up being the winners!
and why do people think port arnt looser? they have lost there best player for nothing it my mind thats loosing no mattert the situation
We didnt allow a homesick princess to dictate how we run our football club. Thats how we arent losers.
The Shev
17 Oct 2003, 18:43
Damn. No Stevens then.
Originally posted by Ausgard
at the time it was a coup to get a brownlow medalilist at a rock bottom price.
North got one for David Teague and Digby Morrell. Bargain!:D
Macca19
17 Oct 2003, 18:49
Originally posted by Ausgard
Otherwise, even if you only got pick 17 (or whatever) and a fringe player - Pick 17 can often get you a bloody decent player and that player will now be playing for the pies rather than for Port.
History shows pick 17 hasnt been too succesful a draft pick in the past. Lance Picioane, Ezra Bray, James Davies, Peter Street, James Kelly. Yup...a whos who of star footballers there!
Its difficult for people outside Port to understand why we like this decision.
Stevens and his manager said to Port that any trade to a Melbourne club will do. I dont care what morgoth says about people he knows and whatever...all that matters is Max and Nick Stevens said to Port that a trade to a Melbourne based club will suffice. We did this. We organised a trade and what happens? Nick backs out on Thursday bloody afternoon and then trys to tell us how to run things. Well im sorry. But Nick Stevens doesnt run the Port Adelaide Fooball Club. If we bowed down to him and said 'yes sir, anything you want sir' and accepted not much for him and sent him to Collingwood...we would be worse off. I dont care for the whole making a good side stronger. Its more to do with pride. If it was Hawthorn, West Coast or St Kilda instead of Collingwood I would think the same thing.
Instead, we tell Nick that he doesnt run the show and that he can run off to the draft after trying to screw us over when trade week is all but over. Why should we simply bow down to all his demands after he blatantly lied to us and screwed a perfectly good deal for us? Get stuffed. He can go suck his own d**k.
Instead it shows to players on our list that we wont be screwed over and they wont always get what they want.
Had Nick been honest with Port and said Collingwood or nothing at the start instead of on Thursday afternoon then im sure a deal would have been made and we'd all be friends. Instead, he lied to us, burnt us, screwed us over, and tried to dictate how to run our club. Well im sorry...but im gonna raise the big middle finger towards the fairy princess and tell him to **** off! He now more than likely will spend a few years at a team he said no to a trade to in the first place! He is the loser here. His name is tainted. Ports isnt.
Hollypig
17 Oct 2003, 19:05
Interesting interview with Bucky Cunningham half an hour ago.
Port were prepared to take any of Didak, Lonie, & Licuria, plus pick #17. Seemed a pretty good deal to me.
Crow-mosone
17 Oct 2003, 19:48
Originally posted by rUsTy_mAgPiE
you cant negotiate the price on his head, thats not what im saying, i say we draft him with that price, sign him a contract with that price, 2 weeks later renegoiate his contract like alot of players and clubs do quite often and do it that way, its perfectly legal to renegotaite a contract, happens all the time when players are under performing or teams are in cap trouble
NO.
you would be prohibited from taking him in the first place.
think Fabian Francis and Freo; if you have no cap room you cannot take the player.
besides such a renegotiation would be conduct prejudicial to the draft, and carry stiff penalties.
Crow-mosone
17 Oct 2003, 19:51
Originally posted by Macca19
Its difficult for people outside Port to understand why we like this decision.
this is nothing to do with port, and their way of doing things. This is a stance adopted successfully by brisbane, and rightly used by Port to send out certain messages.
Brisbane were the visionaries, and Port were smart enough to see the benefits over the medium term.
azza102
17 Oct 2003, 19:56
Originally posted by Crow-mosone
NO.
you would be prohibited from taking him in the first place.
think Fabian Francis and Freo; if you have no cap room you cannot take the player.
besides such a renegotiation would be conduct prejudicial to the draft, and carry stiff penalties.
But apparently collingwood does have the cap room!
i wonder how this will pan out. I'm sure collingwoods legal advisers are looking throuhg it all right now.
Crow-mosone
17 Oct 2003, 20:03
Originally posted by azza102
But apparently collingwood does have the cap room!
i wonder how this will pan out. I'm sure collingwoods legal advisers are looking throuhg it all right now.
No you don't.
you do not have the cap room to absorb a contract so large as to prohibit him being drafted by 14 other clubs!!
why don't you pie's get it into your noggins, that you screwed the pooch this time.
azza102
17 Oct 2003, 20:18
buckley onto vetrans list - thats about $250k a year saving
molloy gone
betheres gone
richardson gone
scotland gone
existing amount we are under the cap.
That will go close to a significantly high amount
Crow-mosone
17 Oct 2003, 20:26
Originally posted by azza102
buckley onto vetrans list - thats about $250k a year saving
molloy gone
betheres gone
richardson gone
scotland gone
existing amount we are under the cap.
That will go close to a significantly high amount
Re-signing you own players is where it's going. you could have taken on a reasonable salary, but you seem to think you have more cap room than ANY other club.
complete rubbish, not get over it.
No. If he's picked, he's picked. If he doesn't like it, he can sit out of the AFL until next season and re-enter through the national draft.
You Port and Pie supporters are the greatest load of naive nongs I have every read.
Get it through you thick heads............................
"The Deal is Done the Fix is In"
AND HAS BEEN FOR SOME WEEKS I MIGHT ADD.
You have all been scammed big time by Collo.
"THE FAT LADY HAS SUNG, IS SINGING AND WILL CONTINUE SINGING UNTIL PSD."
Hey Porthos, with your head in the sand in complete denial. This is no dream sequence you hope you can wake up from.
I told you to watch this space about 3 weeks ago.
Now the space is full.
Wait till Deej gets here. Best run and hide nowif I was you.
AaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaa. SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
PS. Don't waste you time giving me a gob full in reply.
Winners are grinners and the rest *&%$ of and please themselves.
azza102
17 Oct 2003, 20:38
both port and the pies with or without stevens are still 10 times better than the blues.
we didn't lose anything, just missed an opportunity
and well done on getting scotland - will be a top player - always liked the guy just never given enough gametime
themoose
18 Oct 2003, 00:58
when I watch port v the pies i hope both teams go and smash each others heads in!
But Port did the right thing. If players want to come home you make it worth the teams while (Headland - Bell trades) you get a quality players while the other teams get something in the realm of fair compensation.
Collingwood were arrogant flankers (surprising!!). Port said we will suffer a loss to prove that we will not be walked over. Collingwood have done it before (Buckley, Rocca, Licuria, O'Bree (PSD)) and will do it again as their attitude is always we are the greatest club in the land and we have the power (no pun intended!) to dictate to other clubs. Well you are only 1/16th of the competition.
And Collingwood, most of the league think it was correct thar Port were not pressured to take the crap you were offering. In the long run Port will win from the hard decisions - and no-one will trade with Collingwood!
Adrian Shelton
18 Oct 2003, 01:18
What has happened in the last 2 days wasn't quite the 'don't trade and then redraft Brown in the PSD' situation i was hoping for but i've had a very big smile on my face all day, you play punk you get punked baby!!!!
stmookeyj
18 Oct 2003, 01:28
Believe me, according to 6PR and his manager, he is VERY HAPPY to play with Carlton. If Collingwood had 900K, why wouldn't they trade their 1st rounder inthe first place? If they did they would have a player right now. Of course, if we somehow found the money out at Dog Land and drafted him..........
Originally posted by stmookeyj
Believe me, according to 6PR and his manager, he is VERY HAPPY to play with Carlton.
Course he is, after the fact of course.
Just ask his manager, it wasn't HIS fault a trade couldn't be arranged....
Yeah right.....
I hope the Bullies or Melbourne pick him up.