View Full Version : Black trade beaten by the clock
Poor Bastard
4:19:26 PM Fri 17 October, 2003
Barry Levinson
afl.com.au
Every year on the final day of trading there are the stories of players who almost changed clubs, but were beaten by the 2pm deadline.
On Friday, it was St Kilda’s Heath Black who was the player to miss out on a return to Fremantle, after the necessary paperwork failed to be lodged in time.
The Dockers and the Saints had agreed on a trade that would have sent Black back to Perth in exchange for pick 27 in the National AFL Draft, Fremantle’s second round selection.
But according to Fremantle football manager Steven Icke, the deal simply ran out of time.
“There were a couple of little hiccups in the finish that never got resolved and the paperwork never got lodged,” a disappointed Icke said.
“It’s unfortunate for everybody because the two clubs had come to an arrangement. It’s unfortunate for Heath and it’s certainly unfortunate for us, because we would have liked to have had Heath play for us next year.
“The AFL are pretty hard and fast on the rules. It’s a two o’clock deadline and we all know that. But it’s disappointing.
“Our paperwork was there with a couple of minutes to go. We were just waiting on the fax to come from Ron Joseph (Black’s manager) and, because of a couple of points that he needed to have clarified with St Kilda, that didn’t arrive in time for the deadline.”
Despite having one-year remaining on his contract, Black wanted to return to Perth with his two children and partner, who he met in Western Australia.
He has only been at Moorabbin for two years, after he was traded from Fremantle to the Saints at the end of 2001.
St Kilda recruiting manager John Beveridge was disappointed that all parties came away dissatisfied, but he is confident that Black can be a strong contributor for the Saints next year.
“It was all ready to go, but the whole paperwork didn’t get completed on time,” Beveridge said.
“He’s still a contracted player and usually those things fall into place okay.”
they had how many days to get this sorted? no sympathy for all parties concerned.
Originally posted by feher
they had how many days to get this sorted? no sympathy for all parties concerned.
exactly
bloody stupid, why the hell do they always hold everything to the last two days of the period? guess how much effort he will put in for the saints next year. we could have really used him, and he'll be lucky to get a guernsey next year with the saints.
ThePope
17 Oct 2003, 17:51
If it was pick 19, you could understand it, as they only had that confirmed a few hours earlier... pick 27 though was Freo's from the start.
Maybe St Kilda was waiting on what it had to give up to get Guerra?
PrideOf
17 Oct 2003, 18:16
There's always one every year isn't there?
Five days to get their sh*t together and they get beaten by minutes.
pav_is_god
17 Oct 2003, 18:17
Originally posted by zero
bloody stupid, why the hell do they always hold everything to the last two days of the period? guess how much effort he will put in for the saints next year. we could have really used him, and he'll be lucky to get a guernsey next year with the saints.
damn straight!!!
you never know though, the saints may delist him. then we could pick im up in the pre-season draft!
i may be a bit too hopefull though...
Pornstar
17 Oct 2003, 18:29
Funny how the only time (that i can remember) that the AFL extended the 2:00pm cutoff was for the benefit of SYDNEY (A.Rocca to Collingwood).
actually it was collingwood who were late lodging the paperwork with the afl for rocca and somehow pulled a swifty to get the deal through, surely they received some benefit from it pornstar??
Crow-mosone
17 Oct 2003, 20:07
Originally posted by zero
bloody stupid, why the hell do they always hold everything to the last two days of the period? guess how much effort he will put in for the saints next year. we could have really used him, and he'll be lucky to get a guernsey next year with the saints.
he puts in zero effort, he won't play afl in 2005.
it's a business, he knows that.
SydneyBomber
17 Oct 2003, 21:19
At least it wasn't essendon this year.
we finally got alvey.
and I'm stoked about it.
:)
riccardo
17 Oct 2003, 22:00
Now Grant Thomas and St Kilda have to have a sit down discussion with Black and see if its in the best interests of both parties to part ways. Black wouldn't be a huge loss for us, but to see the trade deadline stop the deal going through between us and Freo isn't good, especially when intentions were declared to get Black to Freo from day 1. Someone messed up here, probably both parties are at fault, and, in the end, we may just lose Black for nothing.
Joffaboy
17 Oct 2003, 22:15
Originally posted by riccardo
Now Grant Thomas and St Kilda have to have a sit down discussion with Black and see if its in the best interests of both parties to part ways. Black wouldn't be a huge loss for us, but to see the trade deadline stop the deal going through between us and Freo isn't good, especially when intentions were declared to get Black to Freo from day 1. Someone messed up here, probably both parties are at fault, and, in the end, we may just lose Black for nothing.
It was all down to timing.
Waldron on Fox Footy just said
a) Black doesn't have a problem playing for the Saints, his girlfriend wanted to go home and the Saint did everything to accommodate him.
b) he is contracted to the Saints and will play there next season
c) deal fell through becaues Blacks manager didn't sign the paperwork, therefore neither club to blame.
d) Only got Guerra at 1.50 pm, Saints wanted pick 19 but Freo didn't want to give it. To help Black get to Perth the Saints settles on pick 27 (they thought he is worth much more than that), Freo agreed, both signed, but Blacks manager wouldn't.
So to all the dill that said they had 5 days to do it, learn how the flipping trade period works, it all Dovetails right at the end.
If you want a scapegoat blame Blacks manager.
Anyway # 27 for Black is a complete ripoff. I would have rather kept him, which we did.
theferrett
17 Oct 2003, 22:25
actually it was collingwood who were late lodging the paperwork with the afl for rocca and somehow pulled a swifty to get the deal through, surely they received some benefit from it pornstar??
anyone got any details on this one
riccardo
17 Oct 2003, 22:37
Originally posted by Joffaboy
It was all down to timing.
Waldron on Fox Footy just said
a) Black doesn't have a problem playing for the Saints, his girlfriend wanted to go home and the Saint did everything to accommodate him.
b) he is contracted to the Saints and will play there next season
c) deal fell through becaues Blacks manager didn't sign the paperwork, therefore neither club to blame.
d) Only got Guerra at 1.50 pm, Saints wanted pick 19 but Freo didn't want to give it. To help Black get to Perth the Saints settles on pick 27 (they thought he is worth much more than that), Freo agreed, both signed, but Blacks manager wouldn't.
So to all the dill that said they had 5 days to do it, learn how the flipping trade period works, it all Dovetails right at the end.
If you want a scapegoat blame Blacks manager.
Anyway # 27 for Black is a complete ripoff. I would have rather kept him, which we did.
Thanks for that info, Joffaboy, I'm happy that Blacky is committed to St Kilda. When you hear a player asks to be traded back home, you fear and suspect the worst, but now we know his reasoning, so I'm content.
Agree also that #27 is a joke. Especially as a player of less ability than Black, Steven Koops went for #19.
The Spornstar
17 Oct 2003, 22:46
Originally posted by Pornstar
Funny how the only time (that i can remember) that the AFL extended the 2:00pm cutoff was for the benefit of SYDNEY (A.Rocca to Collingwood).
Didn't Collo make up some story about the fax machine at Carlton being broken?
Joffaboy
17 Oct 2003, 23:11
Originally posted by riccardo
Thanks for that info, Joffaboy, I'm happy that Blacky is committed to St Kilda. When you hear a player asks to be traded back home, you fear and suspect the worst, but now we know his reasoning, so I'm content.
Agree also that #27 is a joke. Especially as a player of less ability than Black, Steven Koops went for #19.
Yup, his young girlfriend has two children and wants to be with family in Perth. Anyone can understand that. Unfortunately the Saints and Freo couldn't swing it, so lets give heath black another go. We all know he can play, lets hope it is next season for us.
sainter
17 Oct 2003, 23:25
Disappointing for Heath.
Good news for the Saints. #27 was too good a deal for the Dockers. #12 would have been too much. The #19 pick they received for Koops would have been the fairest.
He has a lot to offer. At his best he is definitely in our best 22. If he still wants to go back to WA in a years time I'm sure he will be traded.
The best scenario for us is that he has a great season and decides that is future lies with us
The worst scenario is if his private life suffers and he is not committed to his footy.
I rate him highly. He probably didn't endear himself to a lot of the saints fans because of his indiscretion with Riewoldt. But with our supporters, say a bad word about Nick and you'll do well to remain alive. :)
evertonfc
18 Oct 2003, 01:13
Originally posted by sainter
Disappointing for Heath.
Good news for the Saints. #27 was too good a deal for the Dockers. #12 would have been too much. The #19 pick they received for Koops would have been the fairest.
He has a lot to offer. At his best he is definitely in our best 22. If he still wants to go back to WA in a years time I'm sure he will be traded.
The best scenario for us is that he has a great season and decides that is future lies with us
The worst scenario is if his private life suffers and he is not committed to his footy.
I rate him highly. He probably didn't endear himself to a lot of the saints fans because of his indiscretion with Riewoldt. But with our supporters, say a bad word about Nick and you'll do well to remain alive. :)
Fantastic post.
Couldn't agree more.
I rate Heath extremely highly and at his best, he walks into our 22.
With form and confidence back, he can be far more 'damaging' (read: not neccesarily prolific) than Hayes, Powell and Ball.
He has pace to burn and can kick goals; something we really lack.
Just needs to keep backing himself. A very talented young man who I still believe has what it takes to become an integral part of future success.
go team
18 Oct 2003, 01:38
why doesn't the afl use email
ausfatcat
18 Oct 2003, 12:32
glad black deal didn't go thru
deserves freo right for jerking the saints around.
I read somewhere can't remember, that the saints offered a straight swap for croad, rejected.
Then agreed on princeable that if freo got pick 10 would trade pick 12 for black. They changed their minds
Then on thursday it was two second round picks. they changed their mionds at the last mintue.
They tried to rip the saints off by baking them into a corner and nearly succeded but for a slight mistake (thank god).
So go stick it up your arse freo.
sorry for spelling
KiNgCliVe26
18 Oct 2003, 18:22
Thats rubbish Fatty! Freo went in to the trade period and put pick #27 up for Black, which was fair enough since he hasnt set the world on fire in his last 2 years. The saints then **** farted around and tried to screw the dockers over by asking for too much for him. The big loser in this deal is Heath and its St Kilda's fault for ginning around for too long on the Guerra deal.
Savatage
18 Oct 2003, 19:32
Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
Thats rubbish Fatty! Freo went in to the trade period and put pick #27 up for Black, which was fair enough since he hasnt set the world on fire in his last 2 years. The saints then **** farted around and tried to screw the dockers over by asking for too much for him. The big loser in this deal is Heath and its St Kilda's fault for ginning around for too long on the Guerra deal.
Actually, you agreed to give us 2 second round picks, your deal was then changed from another club in a previous deal, so you ended up not wanting to give us your highest 2nd rounder. We agreed with 10 minutes to go on pick 27 & the paperwork was stuck with Ron Joseph.
Get your facts right.
Joffaboy
18 Oct 2003, 19:47
Originally posted by Savatage
Actually, you agreed to give us 2 second round picks, your deal was then changed from another club in a previous deal, so you ended up not wanting to give us your highest 2nd rounder. We agreed with 10 minutes to go on pick 27 & the paperwork was stuck with Ron Joseph.
Get your facts right.
Thats what the story is. Oh well so be it. both the Saints and Freo tried to do the best deal for themselves and Freo almost came out the better.
Oh well who cares, Black says he is happy to play his contract out next year. If he comes good, who knows, we have a year to talk him around. If not we will trade for him next year.
Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
Thats rubbish Fatty! Freo went in to the trade period and put pick #27 up for Black, which was fair enough since he hasnt set the world on fire in his last 2 years. The saints then **** farted around and tried to screw the dockers over by asking for too much for him. The big loser in this deal is Heath and its St Kilda's fault for ginning around for too long on the Guerra deal.
THAT'S RUBBISH Clive! Seriously, get YOUR facts right! What fatcat said was correct.
themoose
20 Oct 2003, 02:03
Actually I just heard Icke and Waldron on the replay of Trading Places. There was no deal as Freo thought anything above #27 was too high. #27 was on the outside of St Kilda's range (a bit on the low side) and would only agree to trade Black for 27 if they grabbed Guerra. They grabbed Guerra (at a bargain pick) with 10 minutes to go meaning that trade was a goer. However Joesph couldn't get the paperwork completed in the 10 minutes. Neither club was to blame, and they'll probably go through the same scenario next year, with Black's performance sending the pick up or down!
gosaints
20 Oct 2003, 16:05
I'm pretty happy that the trade didn't go through. From a St.Kilda perspective, Heath Black is worth more than pick 27, he will have a good season in 2004 and IF he still wants to go back to WA he will be worth more than pick 27.