View Full Version : Andy Flower
Russian
19 Oct 2003, 14:15
Out for a 4th-ball duck!!!! WA take the first outright win of 2003-4 with SA 4/50, Blewett 1 not out from 27 balls. I thought we were going to improve this year?!?
EagleBlue
19 Oct 2003, 19:56
Originally posted by Russian
Out for a 4th-ball duck!!!! WA take the first outright win of 2003-4 with SA 4/50, Blewett 1 not out from 27 balls. I thought we were going to improve this year?!?
Yeah great post !!!!! SA 9/315 with the gun Flower making a duck, Higgs making a duck and Blewett "only" 85 . We will improve this year, with (finally) some young quality quicks in Cleary, Tait, Rofe, with a target to bowl at. We just need to weed out Fitzgearald, Higgs, Deitz with maybe Cosgrove, Ferguson ?????? and some other young kids at Grade level ??????
Originally posted by EagleBlue
We just need to weed out Fitzgearald, Higgs, Deitz with maybe Cosgrove, Ferguson ?????? and some other young kids at Grade level ??????
Agreed, we need to weed out the dead wood.
That should have already started with a new coach in charge. Sadly it hasn't.
18 off 71 balls... another painful display of batting from Mr Deitz. He can be the first to go. He's just an average Sydney grade cricketer, and one who never would have got close to state selection if he'd stayed in his home state. I'd be happy if I he never played another match for SA again.
Fitzgerald has been a good contributor in the past. But his form is very up and down. He's had some good seasons mixed in with some poor ones. He's still our best opener though.
Mark Higgs is a very talented player, but lazy. He was always in and out of the NSW side, now he's in SA and he's almost guaranteed of a spot each game. Well that has to stop; Higgs has got to earn his place in the team. He had a real lull season but stayed in the side. An in form Mark Higgs walks into the Redbacks' side, but an out of form Mark Higgs shouldn't.
Are Cosgrove and Ferguson the answer though? I get the feeling that SA's kids are a bit overrated.
Originally posted by DaveW
Are Cosgrove and Ferguson the answer though? I get the feeling that SA's kids are a bit overrated.
Not really, they are pretty well placed compared to some of the talent at similar ages in other states I think. That said I think everyone acknowledges the problems faced in the District Cricket scene in SA which does not help the development of these boys.
Jars458
20 Oct 2003, 13:03
Manou makes another first baller as well
Perhaps they can find another opener and let Dietz keep as he would be a bit more useful at number 7.
Congrats to Blewy for getting past Les Favell on the list of all time 1st class run scorers for SA
I am assuming he is only behind Boof and Hooksey now.
Higgs out 5th ball as well going for an ugly swipe.
Still 300+ in the first innings of the new season is a reasonable foundation.
Davison with a quick 30 off 20 as well.
Santos L Helper
20 Oct 2003, 13:13
Originally posted by Jars458
Manou makes another first baller as well
Perhaps they can find another opener and let Dietz keep as he would be a bit more useful at number 7.
Congrats to Blewy for getting past Les Favell on the list of all time 1st class run scorers for SA
I am assuming he is only behind Boof and Hooksey now.
Here's (http://www.cricket.org/link_to_database/STATS/AUS/DOMESTIC/SS/SOA/SS_BAT_MOST_RUNS_SOA.html) the link to those stats.
Check out Barry Richards' record for us. Oh jesus, I just saw Bradman's too.
Disgustipated
20 Oct 2003, 15:13
Originally posted by EagleBlue
Yeah great post !!!!! SA 9/315 with the gun Flower making a duck, Higgs making a duck and Blewett "only" 85 . We will improve this year, with (finally) some young quality quicks in Cleary, Tait, Rofe, with a target to bowl at. We just need to weed out Fitzgearald, Higgs, Deitz with maybe Cosgrove, Ferguson ?????? and some other young kids at Grade level ??????
Higgs averaged 50 last season if i recall!
Jars458
20 Oct 2003, 18:07
WA bowled out for 178 with Wilson collecting a short ball on the chin and is off to hospital.
Another WA bowler is injured and can't bowl leaving worthington Angel and Casson
SA respond in true style and are 12 for 2 with both openers out for not much.
Flower got his first runs.
Russian
20 Oct 2003, 18:35
Originally posted by Jars458
WA bowled out for 178 with Wilson collecting a short ball on the chin and is off to hospital.
Another WA bowler is injured and can't bowl leaving worthington Angel and Casson
SA respond in true style and are 12 for 2 with both openers out for not much.
Flower got his first runs.
Don't i look stupid now
Darren Wates is the other WA bowler injured. Hussey took the ball in the 9th over.
Cosgrove and Ferguson - they've both opened in district cricket, we need a good start. I'd promote Blewett to open with one of these and Davies at 3
Marcus North was off the ground too, but he's back on now
SA 2/37 with 25 overs to be bowled today
EagleBlue
20 Oct 2003, 20:26
Originally posted by Disgustipated
Higgs averaged 50 last season if i recall!
:eek:
didnt think he had that good a season.
Egg on face !!!!!
Originally posted by Jars458
Manou makes another first baller as well
Perhaps they can find another opener and let Dietz keep as he would be a bit more useful at number 7. Find another opener and get rid of Deitz.
Why should we get rid of a genuine talent in Manou?
Jars458
21 Oct 2003, 09:50
Originally posted by DaveW
Find another opener and get rid of Deitz.
Why should we get rid of a genuine talent in Manou?
Because he is an average keeper at best and his batting is fair dinkum appalling most of the time.
Originally posted by Jars458
Because he is an average keeper at best and his batting is fair dinkum appalling most of the time. Manou's a decent keeper - superior to Deitz at least - and his batting isn't too bad. He's got a bit of attacking flair which is good for a number #7 (heck he's opened on ocassions in the one-day cup). It's not Manou's fault numerous top order collapses mean he often has to bat cautiously - which he can't do.
Disgustipated
21 Oct 2003, 11:07
Originally posted by EagleBlue
:eek:
didnt think he had that good a season.
Egg on face !!!!!
He had a couple of red inks which did help the ave but hit two of the quickest centuries of the season. Think the one he hit in the last game against the Vics was off 80 balls.
Should be getting more of a bowl this season. Very under rated offie and seeing as chinamen are back in the trend his leggies are ok also, better then Katich.
Yeah my memory of Higgs' first season with SA is one of cameo innings and getting out cheaply at crucial stages.
Jars458
21 Oct 2003, 14:54
SA 8 for 195 at lunch.
Manou a cameo for 29. Dave you meay be right, I think he can only hit fours.
Cleary doing the job again at 33 not out
I think that 343 is plenty to be ahead on that pitch.
We still have a very brittle batting line-up - not one score above 40.
I would have liked to have seen us get a 400+ lead to really put the match out of WA's reach.
Worthington has taken five for the innings and if he picks up the remaining couple he'll have taken ten for the match. Not bad for a guy in his third first class match whose first two games yielded 0/132.
Western Australia will chase a target of 371 with a day and a half to go. So we should get an outright winner out of this match.
The tail wagged beautifully in the 2nd innings: 86 runs for the last three wickets.
Cleary top scored with 45 (just to contradict what I said in my previous post).
Worthington took 9 for the match for WA.
WA 5/144 at stumps
South Australia in the box seat now. :cool:
Clearly got Hussey and Goodwin in the one over, topping off a pretty good day for him.
Jars458
22 Oct 2003, 11:07
Originally posted by DaveW
WA 5/144 at stumps
South Australia in the box seat now. :cool:
Clearly got Hussey and Goodwin in the one over, topping off a pretty good day for him.
Things are looking good for our bowling stocks this year I reckon.
And we still have Trent Kelly on the sidelines.
Originally posted by Jars458
Things are looking good for our bowling stocks this year I reckon.
And we still have Trent Kelly on the sidelines. Yes we have so much raw bowling talent that Rofe is now the experienced head!
Originally posted by DaveW
The tail wagged beautifully in the 2nd innings: 86 runs for the last three wickets.
That proved to be the difference in the end. A 56 run win for the Redbacks.
We start the season off with 6 points. You little beauty. :cool:
Well done fellas. Gave us a scare though especially when Worthington started spanking them.
Set up in the first innings when by all accounts the wicket had a bit in it and after a poor start we still managed over 300.
Rofe with 8 for the match and Tait 6 gives us something to look forward to. Deitz and Fitzy still don't really inspire a lot of confidence as an opening combo though. I know its only one game into the season but lets try plan B. Andy Flower opened for the Zims so maybe he could replace Dietz and bring in Cosgrove at 5 or 6. AF may be getting too old to open but we need a change.
Great start for the year though.
Russian
22 Oct 2003, 17:04
Originally posted by Spogs
Well done fellas. Gave us a scare though especially when Worthington started spanking them.
Set up in the first innings when by all accounts the wicket had a bit in it and after a poor start we still managed over 300.
Rofe with 8 for the match and Tait 6 gives us something to look forward to. Deitz and Fitzy still don't really inspire a lot of confidence as an opening combo though. I know its only one game into the season but lets try plan B. Andy Flower opened for the Zims so maybe he could replace Dietz and bring in Cosgrove at 5 or 6. AF may be getting too old to open but we need a change.
Great start for the year though.
Great start for the Redbacks. I'd like to see Cosgrove and Ferguson replace Deitz and Fitzgerald, one opening with Blewett/Flower and the other at 4. Hopefully these 2 can establish themselves then become the new opening combination in 2004-5. I'd like to get Davies in there at 3
Rofe, Tait, Cleary, Kelly. Tough decision who to leave out when they are all fit. All are potential Australian players
Bit disappointed we let the Warriors get within 56 but at least we won
How i'd line up for the next game:
Blewett
Ferguson
Davies
Flower
Cosgrove
Higgs/Miller depending on which type of bowler we need
Manou - have to leave him there for the whole season and see how he improves under Flipper
Davison
Cleary
Rofe
Tait
My problem with Blewett opening is that it makes the middle order look a bit weak. The best batsman in the side should bat at 3 or 4. Someone else needs to shoulder some responsibility.
Also not sure about Davies. Can look very good and I do like him but as with most of our batmen is so damn inconsistent. This really has to be his year or he'll be up for the chop next year.
Haven't seen or heard enough about Ferguson to make a judgement. Obviously has some talent and would prefer to see the younger blokes get a good go early instead of bringing them in for a couple of games late in the season when the pressure could be on for finals births.
Jars458
22 Oct 2003, 17:32
My team would be
Johnson
Fitzgerald
Blewett
Flower
Higgs
Davies
Dietz
Davison
Clearly
Tait
Rofe
12th man - Miller.
I thought Miller was too much the same as our other bowlers whereas Johnsons mediums are generally a good wicket breaking type of delivery. Miller although he batted well in the first innings is not the future of our team.
Davies to be given a chacne at six though would be happy for either Cosgrove or Ferguson to get a chance there.
Ftizy is at least rasonably reliable to open and I agree that we need our two best batsmen at 3 and four.
Dietz to keep as he can bat and should do better not exposed to teh new ball. Manou just can never take his chancs and is too one dimensional as a batsman in my view.
My team would be pretty similar to Jars:
Johnson
Fitzgerald
Blewett
Flower
Higgs
Miller
Manou
Davison
Cleary
Tait
Rofe
I've debated the keeping position already.
Number six is a raffle: Miller can hang onto it whilst he's getting results with bat and ball. If he's not, I would love to see Davies finally realise his potential at the top level. Likewise it would be also good to see Cosgrove step up. Obviously the number six bat would be the first player to make way if Lehmann is fit and available.
The bowling is quite raw. I'm still not sure what's going to become of Tait and Cleary, but so far their figures are pretty impressive. Rofe is clearly the star. Davison is the best spin option we've got, and despite being much maligned, he actually didn't do too badly last season.
Originally posted by Spogs
Andy Flower opened for the Zims
Never in Tests.
He was mostly a number five.
Russian
22 Oct 2003, 18:28
Originally posted by Spogs
My problem with Blewett opening is that it makes the middle order look a bit weak. The best batsman in the side should bat at 3 or 4. Someone else needs to shoulder some responsibility.
We have to make a new reliable batsman. Blewett can go back to number 3 when we have developed one of these batsman into a reliable one. Plus his chances of replacing Langer (out of form and no ready replacement) appear higher than replacing Ponting (in fantastic form with Love waiting for an opportunity) although his chances aren't great either way. We can't afford to be 2/20 in almost every game. Flower will have to hold up the middle order until someone new comes through.
Originally posted by Russian
Plus his chances of replacing Langer (out of form and no ready replacement) appear higher than replacing Ponting (in fantastic form with Love waiting for an opportunity) although his chances aren't great either way. That's what I could never understand.
When Blewett was dropped as an opener in the Test side, he went back to being a number three at Shield level.
Yet Australia's middle order has always been very strong and the openings (no pun intended) for a spot were always likely to be at the top of the order. This was before even Hayden had established himself.
It made no sense for a fringe Test opener to be batting at number three.
But Blewett obviously prefers first drop. And his Test career is long over. I can't see him going up the order now.
red+black
22 Oct 2003, 20:00
maybe i missed something, but why was this game played? my official fixture which i received not too long ago shows no games until november and this particular match scheduled for march?
Russian
22 Oct 2003, 20:03
Originally posted by red+black
maybe i missed something, but why was this game played? my official fixture which i received not too long ago shows no games until november and this particular match scheduled for march?
Some financial opportunity for the WACA so they moved the early season WA v SA clash to the WACA for now and the late season one for the same dates but at Adelaide Oval
Originally posted by red+black
maybe i missed something, but why was this game played? my official fixture which i received not too long ago shows no games until november and this particular match scheduled for march? There was a fixture change.
Here's the press release: http://www-aus.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2003/SEP/266087_CA_30SEP2003.html
red+black
22 Oct 2003, 20:15
thanks guys. more of a commercial opportunity than a cricket one.
Russian
23 Oct 2003, 21:50
Originally posted by Russian
Rofe, Tait, Cleary, Kelly. Tough decision who to leave out when they are all fit. All are potential Australian players
And then there's Ryan Harris who would still be in the side had he not got injured
EagleBlue
23 Oct 2003, 22:29
Originally posted by Russian
And then there's Ryan Harris who would still be in the side had he not got injured
More of a one-day selection. Miller has gone ahead of him in the the 4-day side.
Thunderstruck
24 Oct 2003, 11:56
SA will be right up there this year, the coach has got them thinking properly.
Heres my lineup:
Johnson
Fitzgerald
Blewett
Flower
Higgs
Miller
Manou
Davidson
Cleary
Rofe
Tait
12th man Cosgrove
Id expect Cosgrove to replace Johnson or Fitgerald pretty soon, maybe for some games this year but also next year. He is better suited to open.
Ferguson has real talent and can bowl as well. Worth a spot in the middle order in the next couple of years but is off the mark atm.
They should have kept Adcock
Rofe is def our best bowler he is the Mcgrath of the team and will play for the aussie in the coming years. Tait is quick and takes wickets, and Cleary can def bat but also bowls well but is a bit hot and cold.
Rookies in grade level - James Harford, small well built tacker, very powerful square of the wicket, he will cut all day. Has a habit tho of getting bowled. I went to school with him, atm I think he is 17, def a batting prospect.
Trent Kelly, his form with the bat at Grade level has been excellent, scored a century and is only touted as a bowler. Is also a prospect for the coming years.
All in all, id expect SA to start ripping thru other teams batting lineups this year, but more so next year.
Batting is the problem, Flower is def not the solution to all our problems, sure he helps but really we need Boof back to really get things going. That would push out Miller id say. Too many times we have collapses and in quick sucession rather than building solid partnerships. Davies is ok but better suited to the one day game i reckon. Very good at 2nd XI level tho.
Originally posted by DaveW
That's what I could never understand.
When Blewett was dropped as an opener in the Test side, he went back to being a number three at Shield level.
Yet Australia's middle order has always been very strong and the openings (no pun intended) for a spot were always likely to be at the top of the order. This was before even Hayden had established himself.
It made no sense for a fringe Test opener to be batting at number three.
But Blewett obviously prefers first drop. And his Test career is long over. I can't see him going up the order now.
Langer never opened the innings prior to replacing Slats in 2001. Albeit it was a tour a replacements were scarce it shows it can be done.
Originally posted by Thunderstruck
They should have kept Adcock Now there's another wasted talent. Worth keeping, but like Davies really has to step up sooner or later.
Batting is the problem, Flower is def not the solution to all our problems, sure he helps but really we need Boof back to really get things going. We need solidarity in the batting and we've recruited a guy who averages over 50 in Test cricket. "Not the solution to our problems"?? What are you after, Don Bradman?
Originally posted by llosis
Langer never opened the innings prior to replacing Slats in 2001. Albeit it was a tour a replacements were scarce it shows it can be done. That's not the point. Just because Langer was promoted to opener when there were no other options at the end of a tour, doesn't mean the selectors will suddenly be turning state number threes into Test openers.
Blewett's best chance to regain his Test spot was as an opener. But it's a moot point now anyway, as that boat has sailed.
Kane McGoodwin
26 Oct 2003, 12:29
Johnson
Cosgrove
Blewett
Flower
Higgs
Miller
Manou
Davidson
Cleary
Rofe
Tait
I would move Fitzgerald on as he has only been an average performer for a while now. Time to blood some youth with Flower & Blewey around.
Johnson is under-rated IMO. Handy partnership breaker too.
Should persist with Manou for at least the 1st third of the season ahead of Deitz. Playing both is stupid.
If the batting becomes too brittle, should consider bringing in another batsman for Miller as have plenty of bowling options.
Thunderstruck
28 Oct 2003, 14:12
What I mean Dave, is that one guy is not going to solve our batting problems. Yep he has averaged 50 in test cricket which is fantastic but realistically, 11 doesnt go into one.
Originally posted by Thunderstruck
What I mean Dave, is that one guy is not going to solve our batting problems. Yep he has averaged 50 in test cricket which is fantastic but realistically, 11 doesnt go into one. Yeah we really should have recruited someone who could fill 3 or 4 batting spots. :rolleyes: