shotgun wedding

[pedrothelioness]

Found this tonite.

http://www.convictcreations.com/football/brisbanelions.htm

[amortiser]

Fat lot he knows - its the Merrett-Murray Medal.


amortiser

[luthor]

Yeah.

Some of that stuff is pretty cynical and jaundiced, not to mention downright innaccurate.

The writer seems to think one part of the club should be showing the other part who's boss.

The other thing that struck me was, that after all the negative stuff written about the merger, the author matter-of-factly gets around to the fact that the club got to win 3 Flags in a row, as if it just kinda "happened" for no particular reason.

Then we get the list of selective stats at the end to "demonstrate" that we are a bunch of low-class, no-brain rednecks.

Pfft!!!

[OldLion]

Way too 'smart arse'. It's amazing when the club's discussed that no one bothers to really understand what when on, what's going on now and where this is all headed - from the point of view of passionate footy fans who follow a team that returns that passion and commitment in spades. There's a generation of young fans who love all the Roys history - it's very accessable as junior footy is played on Brunswick St. with the old stand etc - AND love their Lions players and team. Us old codgers who went thru' the trauma aren't really the future of the club as it forms its own traditions - like knocking off the Pies at the G ( didn't see that happen much with the Roys ) - and we can only delight in the experience and that of the kids. This is obviously a unique situation - and will always be so - but with this squad, I reckon the future looks pretty good. We had a ball at the GF this year - with solid Fitzroy families to the left and footy crazies from Brisbane on the right all enjoying the ride of our lives.

[adey115]

Originally posted by OldLion
Way too 'smart arse'. It's amazing when the club's discussed that no one bothers to really understand what when on, what's going on now and where this is all headed - from the point of view of passionate footy fans who follow a team that returns that passion and commitment in spades. There's a generation of young fans who love all the Roys history - it's very accessable as junior footy is played on Brunswick St. with the old stand etc - AND love their Lions players and team. Us old codgers who went thru' the trauma aren't really the future of the club as it forms its own traditions - like knocking off the Pies at the G ( didn't see that happen much with the Roys ) - and we can only delight in the experience and that of the kids. This is obviously a unique situation - and will always be so - but with this squad, I reckon the future looks pretty good. We had a ball at the GF this year - with solid Fitzroy families to the left and footy crazies from Brisbane on the right all enjoying the ride of our lives.

wanted to come up with something intelligent, but I'll stick to the obvious... HELL YEAH.

I gotta say that I flipping loved sitting at the Grannie surrounded by Qld'ers who'd made the trek down, and ol Roy families - all as one.

[CarterS]

I've seen that before, i think i posted it on the main forum a while ago.

theres an article about every club there and a few different sports too.

[BrainOfMorbius]

I had a series of discussions with the creator of that page about 12 months ago. Got him to change some even more idiotic comments, but his main attitude was along the lines of 'these are comments by some people on another webpage, they support my argument so I'm using them'.

[Bjay]

:mad:

I think the whole article was a load of codswallop and I'm sorry I even bothered to read the thing - it spoilt my whole day!!!

(Maybe there should be a warning at the beginning of this topic - "No genuine Lions supporters allowed".)

[amortiser]

Here is his reply when I pointed out his error.


"Thats dodgy!! It goes a long way to explaining why this largely unknown fella
by the name of Murray has been such a vocal supporter of the merger. I know for
some Fitzroy people he was a champion but compared to Bunton who is an AFL
legend, Murray is an unknown.

It seems Brisbane decided they needed a prominent Fitzroy player from a by-gone
era to support the merger. So they found one and used the medal to increase his
profile to make his support seem more significant.

When the merger was first announced, the medal was going to be called the
Bunton-Merret in tribute. How quickly even that tradition was changed to suit
an agenda.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. The page will be updated with this latest
development shortly. "


Largely unknown fella - pleease!!


amortiser

[pedrothelioness]

I always wonder why people who have nothing to do with our team always try to talk down the merger. I mean, sure there were some bad points about it at first, after all, two teams of supporters were having their own teams ripped apart from them, but overall looking back, I couldnt actually be happier. Shoot me if im cliched, but I actually prefer the Brisbane Lions now more then I ever did with the Brisbane Bears, and I was a huge fan of Bears. I prefer the jumper, song, the mascot, I love how when I lived in melbourne, Id see more then one other fan at the game (going back to the early Bears games, people would ask me whether the club was paying me to wear that jumper).

Question though, since the greater majority of the team is/was bears based, so I already loved our team members ect, how did the Fitzroy guys go starting to like the players aswell? Had any previously known who any of them really were and liked them ect ect?

[adey115]

Originally posted by amortiser
Here is his reply when I pointed out his error.

Largely unknown fella - pleease!!

amortiser

that wally (not you amo, the website bloke) has got to be kidding.... largely unknown? why the hell is he on the front of The Brownlow Book? Why is he in the AFL Hall of Fame? Why does he have more B&Fs for an AFL/VFL club than any other player?

I blame the Commodore computer company for this coddswallop. They made Commodore 64's affordable for idiots like this bloke when he was a kid, and he's just built on his knowledge from then. Just because he knows how to setup a web page doesn't mean he knows jack about The Brisbane Bears Fitzroy Football Club trading as The Brisbane Lions.

[OldLion]

Originally posted by pedrothelioness
how did the Fitzroy guys go starting to like the players aswell? When the team showed the passion required to take it up to the 'traditional' Melbourne clubs on their turf. Pretty depressing to go to a Lions game and fail to be inspired - after all the bravery we witnessed watching an increasingly undermanned and undermined Fitzroy squad. The turning point for me was the 2001 game v Blues - the Fitzroy Team of the Century day - when the team not only got flogged but tossed in the towel ( you could sense that they were looking at their flight timetable to get an early exit ) and us Melbourne fans had to endure the endless ( and accurate ) wind ups from Blues fans. After the excitement of 1999, it was very depressing to experience that capitulation. We always attend away games - obviously - and therefore are always in the minority at the big games. Very character building ( like the QF this year ). So when the team came out and flogged the Pies at the G in 2001, it was a revelation ( first time I'd actually seen us beat the Pies there ). Since then .. apart from our inability to play Docklands .. the passion and commitment is there, personified by JB .. and of course the Heritage game this year was one of the great experiences.

[adey115]

Originally posted by OldLion
When the team showed the passion required to take it up to the 'traditional' Melbourne clubs on their turf. Pretty depressing to go to a Lions game and fail to be inspired - after all the bravery we witnessed watching an increasingly undermanned and undermined Fitzroy squad. The turning point for me was the 2001 game v Blues - the Fitzroy Team of the Century day - when the team not only got flogged but tossed in the towel ( you could sense that they were looking at their flight timetable to get an early exit ) and us Melbourne fans had to endure the endless ( and accurate ) wind ups from Blues fans. After the excitement of 1999, it was very depressing to experience that capitulation. We always attend away games - obviously - and therefore are always in the minority at the big games. Very character building ( like the QF this year ). So when the team came out and flogged the Pies at the G in 2001, it was a revelation ( first time I'd actually seen us beat the Pies there ). Since then .. apart from our inability to play Docklands .. the passion and commitment is there, personified by JB .. and of course the Heritage game this year was one of the great experiences.

ditto. and apart from that, 99% of ther football public love Michael Voss, even if they don't barrack for us. All of a sudden in 97 we had that bloke running around the paddock in "our" team.

[rchowell]

I have to agree that perhaps this bloke's analysis of the whole situation was somewhat superficial - he's really glossed over a lot of stuff as you guys have pointed out. Doesn't really strike me as a real "football person" if you get my drift. Seems to me like more of a business person, and maybe he doesn't understand that the culture of a nationwide footy club (or two footy clubs depending on your point of view) is a bit different to the culture of a nationwide business.

My take on the whole situation is that we should be grateful that at least out club has a culture, whether it's good or bad, unlike many of the American football franchises which are constantly changing cities and really are treated like large scale organisations (with owners), rather than football clubs (with members). And anyway, I look at my original club's culture (described in the article as "unique" - I spose that's one word he could have used!), and I wasn't terribly upset by the merger in 1996 because my club was young (as was I) and I wasn't ingrained in the whole caper like maybe some of the older Fitzroy fans were.

And secondly, I look at a bloke like Kevin Murray, who has just embraced the whole Brisbane Lions concept, and you hear people talking about what a champion player he was, and then you have David Parkin who describes the year he coached Fitzroy to a preliminary final as his finest coaching achievement, and it makes me think that even despite their struggles in their final years, Fitzroy had a pretty good footy culture - one that I have tried to embrace, hard as it is living in Tassie. The fact that there is tribute payed to former Fitzroy greats down the corridors of the 'Gabba is important to me as well. The Brisbane Lions are one club, and no amount of bickering and infighting will change this.

I'd like to put a bit of a positive spin on his article though if I may. He was right on the money with this -

"Collingwood has lost two Grand Finals to Brisbane and rather than be humble and accept that they have psychological deficiencies, the Pie's president Eddie McGuire has attributed their failure to Brisbane's salary cap concessions. Of course, such excuses make all subsequent humiliations of the Magpies that much more enjoyable."

:D

By the way did anybody bother to click on the Disagree? (http://www.convictcreations.com/football/psychology.htm) link?

"In this site, an effort has been made to insult every team in the AFL and the NRL. If you are a person who would prefer that football be devoid of such commentary and instead be characterised by happy smiling faces, then perhaps a church singalong or Moony convention may be a more appropriate way to spend your time."

To be frank, I don't think he even achieved this in the article! I mean for one, it's hard to criticise a team that wins 3 premierships in a row, but really his analysis was too superficial even for this! If he'd wanted to do a proper job he should have dug depper into the acrimony in 1996, the chronic loss of form in late 1997 and the resultant board infighting and the Northey sacking in mid 1998 (coinciding with the Voss broken leg), and if he was fair dinkum he would also have mentioned the salary cap, the draft concessions, the IV drips, the hypoxicator, the painkillers, the fact they got Channel 7 to pay part of Leigh Matthews' salary. Is there anything else? Just go the whole "Brisbane cheated their way to 3 flags" hog :rolleyes: Credit to the bloke though, he couldn't bring himself to stoop that low. Not even a mention of the Shane Strempel incident, although I'm not sure that's relevant to this story.

[timbo]

Dont be so hasty to completely towel this guys article, some of it is totolly lucid and historically factual. The history given behind the birth of the club is as concise as ive seen and some of the emotions described in the article regarding Fitzroy people, I could relate to, especially in the first couple of years, the rest of the article, i cant see any sence behind. As we enter our eighth year,
the nightmare of the clubs playing history is still unresolved, once
again during the finals at the MCG, I had to sit and see the head to head stats of my club against Collingwood be represented by the Brisbane Bears on the scoreboard. No offence, but this is not a good thing.

This is why articles like the one highlighted, are important and very much relevant to current times even if they hit a nerve, contain a personal agenda or just dont make sence.
Timbo.

[MSB ROYS]

I have said this before but this is how our stats versus other teams should be:

Brisbane Lions W/L
Fitzroy W/L
Brisbane Bears W/L

[luthor]

Originally posted by MSB ROYS
I have said this before but this is how our stats versus other teams should be:

Brisbane Lions W/L
Fitzroy W/L
Brisbane Bears W/L

Yes, it would make a lot more sense.

What would make even more sense IMO, would be to compile ALL stats for ALL sides since the inception of the AFL (as opposed to the VFL) ie from the ( 1990?) season

I always have a good chuckle when supporters of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon (and maybe, to a lesser degree Richmond and Melbourne) rattle on and prattle on about their"proud" records and how THEY have won all these mutiple Flags.

Most of their "multiple" flags were achieved in the a 12 ( or less) team local comp, ie in the VFL, in a completely different era under different rules AND with NO SALARY cap in place.

The "big" clubs simply bought all the good players from the poorer ones.

And then these same "proud" supporters have the hide to accuse the Lions' Premierships of being "tainted" because of the cap allowance, conveniently overlooking the grossly more tainted nature of the vast majority of their own Premierships achieved in a bygone era.

Now if we want to talk REAL AFL premierships ( and not the ones buried in the paleantological record), I would say, off the top of my head the holder of the most AFL Premierships, numbering 3, is none other than........................... the Brisbane Lions

:D

[Roylion]

Originally posted by luthor
Yes, it would make a lot more sense.

What would make even more sense IMO, would be to compile ALL stats for ALL sides since the inception of the AFL (as opposed to the VFL) ie from the ( 1990?) season

I always have a good chuckle when supporters of Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon (and maybe, to a lesser degree Richmond and Melbourne) rattle on and prattle on about their"proud" records and how THEY have won all these mutiple Flags.

For once I have to agree with the supporters of the Melbourne clubs. What ever way you look at it there's no denying that the current competition began in 1897. A name change does not a new competition make.

Originally posted by luthor

Most of their "multiple" flags were achieved in the a 12 ( or less) team local comp, ie in the VFL, in a completely different era under different rules AND with NO SALARY cap in place.

I don't think this should make one scrap of difference, whether the rules at one stage of the competition were different than they were now. There's no doubt the competition has evolved, but the current AFL is merely an expanded VFL.

Originally posted by luthor

And then these same "proud" supporters have the hide to accuse the Lions' Premierships of being "tainted" because of the cap allowance, conveniently overlooking the grossly more tainted nature of the vast majority of their own Premierships achieved in a bygone era.

Here I tend to agree. However that still doesn't change the fact that the competition in which the Brisbane Lions currently compete, began in 1897.

Originally posted by luthor

Now if we want to talk REAL AFL premierships ( and not the ones buried in the paleantological record), I would say, off the top of my head the holder of the most AFL Premierships, numbering 3, is none other than........................... the Brisbane Lions.

16 to Essendon, I make it. 8 to Fitzroy. 3 to the Brisbane Lions.

Agree totally with the MSB ROYS. The stats should be represented as:
Brisbane Lions W/L
Fitzroy W/L
Brisbane Bears W/L

[Mobbenfuhrer]

I somewhat enjoyed the article, though obviously it is fraught with spin that even non-Brissy Roys fans such as myself would not associate with.

I took it for what it was, an jaunty meal high in skylark.