View Full Version : Time for Langer to get the chop?
Maybe he's taken too many blows to the head at short leg...but his form has dropped right away. While I never thought he was a worthy inclusion in our Test XI - he eventually got on a roll and built himself an impressive test record.
But 2003 - another story. 2 completed series against the minnows (who wouldn't beat any of our State sides) and here's his output:
4 Test matches. 5 innings for a total of 103 runs at a paltry average of 21.6.
Could be an opportunity around the corner for one of the state openers should Langer not get amongst the runs in the next 2 Tests.
crudbucket
20 Oct 2003, 18:32
So who's opening for NSW right now ?
No one else need apply ....
Who would be in line to replace Langer?
Is Shaun Marsh ready yet? I haven't ever seen him play but I heard he has big wraps on him. To be honest, I don't even know if he's an opening batsman.
Will Matthew Elliot be given another chance? Will Michael Slater?
Russian
20 Oct 2003, 18:38
Originally posted by Lidge
Maybe he's taken too many blows to the head at short leg...but his form has dropped right away. While I never thought he was a worthy inclusion in our Test XI - he eventually got on a roll and built himself an impressive test record.
But 2003 - another story. 2 completed series against the minnows (who wouldn't beat any of our State sides) and here's his output:
4 Test matches. 5 innings for a total of 103 runs at a paltry average of 21.6.
Could be an opportunity around the corner for one of the state openers should Langer not get amongst the runs in the next 2 Tests.
I'd probably give him the 4 tests but if an opener (Maher, Love, Blewett, Elliot, Hussey, Arnberger) starts the Pura Cup season brilliantly and Langer fails in Brisbane i'd be prepared to drop Langer for Adelaide. He's going to have a few domestic games over the next month to find some form
A guy who as an opening batsman who averages over 46.5 deserves a bit of slack.
Black JuJu
20 Oct 2003, 18:57
As soon as I heard he went cheaply today I thought to myself "ahh the sharks will be circling"
Cut the guy some slack, despite all his success at the top level he is still not given the same leeway as some of his team mates.
If he fails against India, that would warrent a form slump, a few poor outings against low quality opposition is just a hiccup in my book.
He'd have to have a few more bad tests yet for him the be in trouble I would suspect.
GoEagles
20 Oct 2003, 19:21
Langer to me is the player that gets his motivation from playing against the big test nations - vs England he was bloody awsome, and even his debut vs West Indies showed his grit and courage.
Give the boy some slack if he fails against India, but I don't think its warranted against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.
KiNgCliVe26
20 Oct 2003, 19:45
Langer in now way in the world deserves to be dropped. He will come back with avengence.
fitzmantle
20 Oct 2003, 19:55
Drop him. Hes to old, get some young blood. Love should replace him.
EagleBlue
20 Oct 2003, 20:31
Originally posted by Lidge
Maybe he's taken too many blows to the head at short leg...but his form has dropped right away. While I never thought he was a worthy inclusion in our Test XI - he eventually got on a roll and built himself an impressive test record.
But 2003 - another story. 2 completed series against the minnows (who wouldn't beat any of our State sides) and here's his output:
4 Test matches. 5 innings for a total of 103 runs at a paltry average of 21.6.
Could be an opportunity around the corner for one of the state openers should Langer not get amongst the runs in the next 2 Tests.
Such as ????? Elliott, Blewett, Maher , Plllllease !!!!
Still many chances for Langer yet. Ill admit though his form his a worry, barely got the ball off the square today, I have no doubt with Indias pie-checkers due in the country this summer I reckon Langer will bounce back and make some big scores
I'm not a huge Langer fan, but I don't think he's in danger of being dropped. With Hayden, he's formed one of the best opening combinations of all time. I expect he'll be out of this current slump sooner rather than later.
Besides, who have we got to replace him? Perhaps Jimmy Maher. I don't see very many opening batsmen pushing for a Test spot.
Gee, some of you guys are hard judges.
Langer is safe.
Young blood? Love? Gimme a break.
Wasn't too impressive in this Test. You have to remember though that one of the things about opening batsmen is that they are more than likely going to get a couple of tricky ones early, so they usually get a bit more leeway.
In the Perth Test, I thought he looked like he was on the way to a big score. In fact I thought he looked a lot more comfortable than Hayden early on.
wagstaff
20 Oct 2003, 21:49
I don't think Langer is in trouble for a few Tests at least but his performances have been erratic since the beginning of the tour of South Africa in 2002.
Typical was his performance in the 2002/03 Ashes series - he got his highest ever score (250*) in Melbourne but failed to reach 50 in his 7 other innings.
His excellent series against the West Indies earlier this season keeps his spot safe for the time being as it's the only series in the last 18 months where he consistently delivered. All the others have been full of flashy cameos instead of substantial contributions.
I think part of the problem is that he's trying to replicate Hayden and be as dominant as he is - but he simply isn't as good as him. His innings in Perth against Zimbabwe was a good example. He raced out of the blocks with a rash of boundaries but then played a loose defensive shot and was out bowled, while Hayden started off much more slowly and ended up with a world record.
themoose
20 Oct 2003, 23:15
Opening the batting is all about the partnership, notjust the individual. Langer and Hayden are the most sucessful opening partnership ever. A couple of bad tests and he's for the chop . If Langer and Hayden haven't added two 100 partnerships by the end of the summer then you think about it.
BTW Langer will struggle while umpires don't know that you can't be LBW if the ball pitches outside leg stump. 20+ incorrect dismissals in tests for JL!! Ask him!
Originally posted by crudbucket
So who's opening for NSW right now ?
Richard Chee Quee ? :D
Disgustipated
21 Oct 2003, 15:08
Greg Mail. Was 13th man in the Sydney Test, will leapfrog all and be next Aussie opener
ViperV10
21 Oct 2003, 15:22
Martyn is the one who should be dropped, couldn't catch a fly in his pants. Not only can't he field but his batting is mediocre at best.
I also thought the sharks would be circling with Langer failing in these past 2 tests, but he still deserves a chance considering he and Hayden are a great combo when together and in form.
If they were to drop Langer though, Arnberger should be miles in front of anyone else to replace him.
Not to mention both Matthew Inness and Damien Wright should be considered ahead of Bracken and Williams respectively.
Adrian Shelton
21 Oct 2003, 22:26
Slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttttttsssssssssssssss!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(yes i'm at it again this summer):rolleyes:
red+black
22 Oct 2003, 20:19
Originally posted by GoEagles
Langer to me is the player that gets his motivation from playing against the big test nations - vs England he was bloody awesome
big test nations
England
help me out here
stmookeyj
22 Oct 2003, 20:25
There's really no-one there to replace him ATM. Maher is not a test batsman, Blewett, Slater and Elliott have all had their chance and Arnberger and Mail need a big season before being looked at. Maybe Mike Hussey is the man if Langer is to be replaced.
Originally posted by stmookeyj
Arnberger and Mail need a big season before being looked at.
Arnberger needs a big feed by the look of him:eek:
Lonie_from_50
23 Oct 2003, 13:19
Certainly, let Gilly open with Haydos. my new look team for 2004 series v SRI LANKA
Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting(c)
Martyn
Clarke
Katich
Bichel
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath
MacGill
Warne will finish off in 2004 and then MacGilla Gorilla will cement himself for the ?next decade?
guess_who
23 Oct 2003, 13:20
Dude Gillie won't open in the test, Warne if he has any dignity at all won't play again!!!
Who will open who knows? it should be a young up and commer,
Thunderstruck
24 Oct 2003, 12:06
I reckon Gilly should open for the test. Langer's time has come, sorry mate uve been great for us but really we need an injection of new blood and its needed now.
Heres my best Aussie lineup minus Langer
Hayden
Gilchrist
Ponting
Martyn
Waugh
Lehmann
Clarke
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath
12th man Bichel, the poor bugger.
Clarkes time to bat up the order will come
Black Thunder
24 Oct 2003, 13:02
If Langer got dropped for two poor series against minnow teams (and is there a better team to have a poor series because you know that more than likely the others in the team will do well) than it would be a disgrace!!!!!
anduril
24 Oct 2003, 13:09
langer is in NO danger at all of being dropped.....now run along idiotic vultures
ViperV10
24 Oct 2003, 16:38
There is no way Gilly should be opening in a Test...his batting will majorly suffer because there will be way too much strain on him to field all day..and then attempt to concentrate on batting without a break.
He should only open in one-dayers...and even then when the Aussies are batting first.
Originally posted by ViperV10
There is no way Gilly should be opening in a Test...his batting will majorly suffer because there will be way too much strain on him to field all day..and then attempt to concentrate on batting without a break.
He should only open in one-dayers...and even then when the Aussies are batting first.
I agree, Gilly isn't a test opener.
Langer deserves another test or two but if he is replaced than i'd open the batting with Martyn & Hayden then bring Clarke into the middle order to bat between Waugh & Gilly.
Russian
24 Oct 2003, 17:13
Originally posted by muesli
I agree, Gilly isn't a test opener.
Langer deserves another test or two but if he is replaced than i'd open the batting with Martyn & Hayden then bring Clarke into the middle order to bat between Waugh & Gilly.
I'd open with Love for a while. Clarke will have to wait for next summer when Waugh has retired. Martyn/Lehmann are not permanent openers, only open if one of the others is injured for a match or two? Langer's spot is looking shakier after being knocked over for 11 against the Redbacks. Unless Blewett/Maher/Love do something special in the next month and Langer doesn't, he should stay at least until Christmas
Bomber Spirit
24 Oct 2003, 18:27
Originally posted by JUBJUB
Richard Chee Quee ? :D That name's a blast from the past. He hasn't played for a few years now.
Slater & Mail are the normal NSW openers these days - thank goodness when I'm down in Bowral on Sunday I'll be spared having to put up with that chronic underachiever Corey Richards.
But there's no way in the world Langer's spot's in any danger.
GoEagles
25 Oct 2003, 17:52
Originally posted by red+black
big test nations
England
help me out here
Ok, maybe 'traditional' test nations would have been a better way of rephrasing that.
Still, I'd put England in the top 4 bracket of test playing nations [Australia, South Africa, India, England]
West Indies & Pakistan are far too eratic to measure their form.
red+black
25 Oct 2003, 18:25
Originally posted by GoEagles
Still, I'd put England in the top 4 bracket of test playing nations [Australia, South Africa, India, England]
You're kidding aren't you? New Zealand are #3 in the world and their recent 2 tests v India away proved that they are a force to be reckoned with. If only they could get their best team on the park.
England are #4 in the world and I would probably have to agree with that. India are a joke on the road, and only competitive at best at home. That Kolkata test against us last tour was a one in a million event. Laxman's 281 is still India's only ever individual score of 250+. It was simply a freak event.
I think the New Zealand v South Africa series next year will be very interesting. New Zealand could be #2 within 6 months.
Kane McGoodwin
26 Oct 2003, 12:36
Langer deserves to be safe until the end of the summer, based on his past few years record. Could have a detrimental affect on Hayden if JL was given the boot.
If JL were to be replaced, Love could do the job for now. Hussey would also be around the mark.
15 from 50 in a 1-dayer is terrible. Has a Pura Cup game against NSW, ING against SA and a Pura Cup game against Victoria. He'd better perform or someone else will be partnering Hayden in Brisbane imo.
Wicked Lester
3 Nov 2003, 08:51
His 15 from 50 balls yesterday was terrible and personally I'd prefer to watch bananas ripen than watch Langer bat.
I cracked up laughing when Tony Greig was referring to Don Nash's figures of 7 overs, no wicket for 11.
The other commentator noted that Nash had been unlucky and could very easily have had Langer out LBW.
Greig replied "if he'd got Langer out, his figures might have been 1 for 30."
BUT I think he'd need to fail badly in the first two tests against India to be in any danger. He's got a few credits in the bank surely and compared to some he's a spring chicken.
At the same time a young opener would need to stand out and I guess that's the problem. I don't think there are any that are truly demanding selection right now.
With no ready made replacement opener knocking on the door dropping Langer would be foolish. I thought his series against the Windies as excellent. I think you can overlook the test v Bangla and Zim on that account. Hayden and Langer are still our best opening combo and should face up to the Indians.
Bombers_Forever
4 Nov 2003, 11:04
There are no obvious replacements (Maher would be one) but Langer is in big danger now. Another failure in the Pura Cup today against the Blues.
SpecialBruce
4 Nov 2003, 11:49
Langer deserves a chance against India. I would keep Langer in for the whole series against India considering the batting lineup below him is strong if he fails. Then, if he has a mediocre series, his replacement should be made.
Kane McGoodwin
4 Nov 2003, 12:18
Originally posted by Bombers_Forever
There are no obvious replacements (Maher would be one) but Langer is in big danger now. Another failure in the Pura Cup today against the Blues.
Quite frankly I don't think JL is going to get dropped on poor Pura Cup form. He is safe for the Indian series.
Bombers_Forever
4 Nov 2003, 14:02
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Quite frankly I don't think JL is going to get dropped on poor Pura Cup form. He is safe for the Indian series.
Agree Kane.....he deserves to go to India but his summer so far will only get people talking. He will go to India for sure- the selectors are not that impatience. He will probably come out in the second innings and get a century!
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Quite frankly I don't think JL is going to get dropped on poor Pura Cup form. He is safe for the Indian series.
Don't forget that the Pura Cup standard is a couple of classes above the previous 4 tests. With our domestic cricket being stronger than most international teams - I don't believe it is right that out of form players be carried for extended periods.
We need to take a longer term look to the future and start blooding some new players. I'd rather have a 20 year old kid cutting his teeth and averaging 20 than someone in their 30's out of form.
That said - I reckon the selectors should tell Langer he's safe until Xmas or he's gone (ie needs to make a ton or a solid contribution). With that sort of rocket - you'd imagine he'd start making runs pretty quickly.
Yep - time for the selectors to start earning their dough.
SpecialBruce
4 Nov 2003, 18:20
For the replacement if Langer does get dropped, which is a long shot, I wouldn't write off Slater just yet, or Elliot and Love.
How about Katich stays in and Langer makes way for Lehmann?
Boof/Kat/Marto/Gilly could open with Hados
Originally posted by Russian
How about Katich stays in and Langer makes way for Lehmann?
Boof/Kat/Marto/Gilly could open with Hados How about Katich stays in and Lehmann stays out?
Kane McGoodwin
4 Nov 2003, 20:45
Originally posted by scmods
How about Katich stays in and Lehmann stays out?
Geez, I hope not, as Katich isn't anywhere near Lehmann's class. :mad:
themoose
4 Nov 2003, 23:41
JL's Test record in past 12 months (from start Nov 2002)
Tests Inns NO Runs HS1 HS2 HS3 Ave 100 50 0
13 21 1 1014 250 146 111 50.70 3 3 1
Time for a replacement?
Tom_Sainter
5 Nov 2003, 00:17
I would love to see Langer dropped. Ive never liked this mug, he is the luckiest cricketer i can remember. How many chances did this guy get in england that year. The selectors dropped slats over one bad innings. Give me Slats over this joker anyday.
From Baggy Green today... (finally the press are starting to take notice)
Langer's run drought fails to break
Will Swanton
November 4, 2003
Here's a tip - Justin Langer is struggling.
Langer's miserable start to the season continued today when he made only four runs in the Pura Cup match against NSW at the Sydney Cricket Ground, where rookie leg spinner Liam Zammit bowled in his baggy blue cap, West Australian Murray Goodwin cracked 184 not out and a conveniently rescheduled drinks break lasted 12 minutes so the players could watch the Melbourne Cup on the big screen.
Mark Waugh, a gambler of some repute, successfully backed Makybe Diva, as did NSW coach Steve Rixon.
Waugh - who admits to throwing away his wicket in a club game years ago in order to watch the Cox Plate - also pulled the names out of the hat for the NSW team's Cup sweep, but he wasn't lucky enough to get the winner twice.
Langer, the Test opener, is having plenty of luck - none of it good.
His scratchy 23-ball knock came after lowly returns of 26, two and eight in the Tests against Zimbabwe, and 11 and 15 in the ING Cup. His average is 11 in a season where so many of Australia's premier batsmen are gorging themselves on runs, both here and abroad.
WA was 8-350 at stumps, with Goodwin, the former Zimbabwe Test batsman, letting his bat do the talking after being reprimanded last month for saying Zimbabwean selections favoured black players.
"I couldn't believe how far that (his comments about black players) had gone," said Goodwin.
"It was just a personal comment on my experiences and got me into hot water. I couldn't believe it when I had to employ lawyers and stuff like that to defend me, it was ridiculous.
"It's nice to get some runs when you've been in the press for not the right reasons, and it's nice show WA I'm willing to work hard and play well for them." Goodwin, who did his dough on Distinctly Secret, was gobsmacked when umpire Darrell Hair told him drinks would be taken at the unheard of time of 3.08pm.
"I found it hard to start up again after the race because you get into a rhythm, and then you've got to stop," he said.
"It's such a big race, and I think a few of the guys had a bit of money on it. They wanted to stop, so I went with the flow. The umpire came up and said we're going to have a drinks break for the Melbourne Cup and I said, 'oh, okay." Goodwin - using SCG Test century-maker Stuart Carlisle's locker - saved WA after the failures of Langer and Mike Hussey.
Langer slashed at a drive from NSW fast bowler Matthew Nicholson, succeeding only in giving a catch to Greg Mail at gully.
Nicholson, in his first match for the Blues since switching from WA, had already made his presence felt by trapping Hussey LBW for a duck with his fifth ball of the day. Bowling in his cap like the legendary Clarrie Grimmett, Zammit took wickets with two of his worst balls, a full toss which had Marcus North (26) LBW and a long hop which Shaun Marsh (29) played onto his stumps, but there was plenty of good stuff in between.
He finished with 2-71 from 17 overs.
The 22-year-old has been bowling in a cap since he started playing for Penrith in the Sydney grade competition eight years ago. He's worn the caps of NSW and Australian junior representative sides while bowling and saw no reason to change when he stepped up in class today.
With the Melbourne Cup starting at 3.10pm, drinks were taken at 3.08pm and continued until 3.20pm. Waugh watched his nag get up then walked back to slips with his arms folded, not saying much.
© 2003 AAP
Originally posted by Tom_Sainter
I would love to see Langer dropped. Ive never liked this mug, he is the luckiest cricketer i can remember. How many chances did this guy get in england that year. The selectors dropped slats over one bad innings. Give me Slats over this joker anyday.
Langer lucky? You must have brain damage. Langer is probably the unluckiest cricketer i've seen, the number of times he gets out to sh*thouse umpring decisions (particularly early in his career) is unbelievable.
BTW, Langer didn't play until the 5th test in the last series in England. And in that game, he scored a hundred. If you're referring to the series before that, you must have real psychological problems to hold grudges over something that happened in 1997.
Ice goddess
5 Nov 2003, 17:19
Langer is ok, but anyone batting for Australia the last three or four years would have a good average. Cannot remember a decent bowler, let alone attack they have faced. All of the averages are inflated.
Originally posted by Ice goddess
Langer is ok, but anyone batting for Australia the last three or four years would have a good average. Cannot remember a decent bowler, let alone attack they have faced. All of the averages are inflated. Or perhaps they're a group of bloody good batsmen?
Your statement implies that no other country has any decent bowlers. In that case, why aren't all the other countries batsmen also recording high averages? They're playing against the same bowling attacks.
Think he's pretty safe now (81 not out of 134 balls with 10x4 and 1x6)
Now the question must be Lehmann or Katich
Originally posted by Russian
Think he's pretty safe now (81 not out of 134 balls with 10x4 and 1x6)
Now the question must be Lehmann or Katich
Katich, for the future's sake.
Langer was always safe, and will remain so while there is no genuine contender for the openers spot. I notice Katich has opened for NSW, but the test selectors are nowhere near revolutionary enough to consider him as a test opener.
We'll probably see Lehmann straight back into the test team, which I think is a pity because Katich is in top form.
Another pity is Watson. Picked a terrible time to get injured. He'll be serving an apprenticeship in the one day team for a couple of years now. They wasted years of Hayden's career that way.
Bombers_Forever
7 Nov 2003, 04:53
I knew Langer would get a big score in this innings after his last two efforts......century will ease the pressure on him (for now)
Ice goddess
7 Nov 2003, 05:10
schmods domestic cricket would be more challenging than most world attacks today. True, the Aussies have better averages than most batsmen around the world but don't have to face their own bowlers. Even some of the ordinary NZ batsmen etc. rack up big scores against some of the cricket minnows. Think they would have struggled against Joel Garner and the boys. Name all the class bowlers. And isn't if funny how Langer, Hayden et al struggled earlier in their careers but there is a strong correlation between their performances of late when bowlers are thin on the ground, compounded by heavy schedules and injuries. Lucky to be playing today.
Originally posted by Ice goddess
schmods domestic cricket would be more challenging than most world attacks today. True, the Aussies have better averages than most batsmen around the world but don't have to face their own bowlers. And all the others only ever play series against Australia? They don't play Australia more than once every couple of years. They should all be averaging 50.
Anyway, Iche Goddeshsh, it's irrelevant. It makes no sense to criticise Australian batsmen on the basis that the bowling their facing is no good. All they can do is hit what's put up to them.
It's all part of the typical "an Australian team is doing well, better pour **** on them" routine, which alternates regularly with the "an Australian team is doing badly, better pour **** on them" routine.
Fact is, the Australian team in recent years have been the best in the world and have made everybody else look ordinary. If that embarrasses you, find another way to pass the time.
Wicked Lester
7 Nov 2003, 09:17
Originally posted by scmods
Or perhaps they're a group of bloody good batsmen?
Your statement implies that no other country has any decent bowlers. In that case, why aren't all the other countries batsmen also recording high averages? They're playing against the same bowling attacks.
That the Australian line up are a group of superb batsmen there is no doubt.
Nevertheless there may be a little truth to what the Ice Goddess is saying.
I read a piece by an English Cricket Statistician recently who asserts that the last few years have been the best time to be a batsman since the 1930's.
The article noted that in the first 28 tests played this year there had been an incredible 11 double centuries scored. The piece was full of data and carried quite a persuasive argument. It suggested that even allowing for the addition of new test playing nations there hadn't been a period since the 1930's when so many batsmen at an international level had averaged either over 50, or in the high 1940's. In essence there are a substantial number of players worldwide with relatively high averages.
The article was not trying to downplay the ascendancy of the Australian team over the others, but was arguing that for comparison purposes with other eras, the present is a pretty good time to be a batsman.
Originally posted by Wicked Lester
The article was not trying to downplay the ascendancy of the Australian team over the others, but was arguing that for comparison purposes with other eras, the present is a pretty good time to be a batsman. It's probably true, but to use that as the basis for criticising the batsmen who are succeeding does not make sense.
We don't say "well, Bradman was pretty good but the bowling attacks of the 30's were poor". And in thirty years time we'll be saying how good this current crop of batsmen were too.
Wicked Lester
7 Nov 2003, 09:44
Originally posted by scmods
It's probably true, but to use that as the basis for criticising the batsmen who are succeeding does not make sense.
We don't say "well, Bradman was pretty good but the bowling attacks of the 30's were poor". And in thirty years time we'll be saying how good this current crop of batsmen were too.
I don't criticise the current Australian batsmen. As I said they are a championship unit.
I do advocate change - as I believe the policy of the last decade ('retiring' an established player each year even if it is against their will) is what has kept the Australian team fresh.
But I do think its important to retain a little perspective. Cricket is a great sport for statisticians. And when comparing players of different eras its certainly worth keeping in mind data which suggests we are presently in a golden age for batsmen.
As for Bradman - well even if the 1930's were also a good period for batsmen with a signifiacnt number managing to average in the mid to high 50's, Bradman averaged 99.94 - enough said!
I believe the improvement of pitches, especially in Australia in the last decade has had a great impact on batting results. Remember some of those cracks at the WACA.
Time to close this thread.
Langer has obviously been reading this thread and taken notice and found some long overdue form.
It's official - his spot in the team is safe (for 2003/04).