Gary Ayres - Man of Mystery

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by macca23
This one's a mystery to me.

Too many of us are thinking/saying similar at this point. As such next season cannot possibly be filled with as much hope and expectation as last season was... and where did we finish in 2003? Sixth and out in the semis. We didn't pass go, didn't collect our $200 and sure as hell didn't win second prize in any beauty contest.

Onto 2004, sure Ricciuto's speech on Club Champion night was sexy, uplifting and appealed to the masses... but I reckon it would've been remarkably similar to 15 other speeches made around the same time across the country. "We have the players, we have the desire, we have the commitment" - But I'm sure even Carlton thinks the same following their search and destroy recruitment mission last week.

Ayres looks safe at the helm going into his fifth season at the Adelaide Football Club... but we look in real danger of going backwards. Our puzzling inactivity at trade week hasn't filled anyone with confidence and some of our delistings and rookie promotions are just as strange. Furthermore, our draft picks are as awful as can be for a side experiencing a real changing of the guard... how do we replace now and in the immediate future the heart and commitment of Bickley? The versatility of Smart? The teamwork of Carey? The tapwork of Clarke... when the majority of the league has first crack at the hottest young talent in the land over us?

Gary Ayres... man of mystery. If he has a short-term and a long-term plan - and I'm sure you'd all agree with me - I'd sure as hell like to see it.

[DaveW]

Tank 2004.

Get two early draft picks.

Get a new coach.

Rebuild.

I've been saying it for a month now. :cool:

[Jars458]

Originally posted by DaveW
Tank 2004.

Get two early draft picks.

Get a new coach.

Rebuild.

I've been saying it for a month now. :cool:

Why is everyone so negative?

At the start of last year everyone thought we could iwn the flag

Now everyone is acting like we are the worst side going around.

We have lost only Bickley and have got some development out of some other players.

We will be there or there abouts and just need to continue to gradually update our list is what I think is happening.

The AFC are going quite well in my view.

[Porthos]

If you tank 2005 instead you can get Cooney in the preseason draft for nix.

[magicman]

Originally posted by DaveW
Tank 2004.

Get two early draft picks.

Get a new coach.

Rebuild.

I've been saying it for a month now. :cool:
Are you saying that players like McLeod, Riccuito, Carey etc are going to deliberately play below their abilities to ensure of getting a good draft pick, or do you mean that the squad we have for next year is not capable of making the finals and is on par with the bulldogs, demons etc.:confused:

[DaveW]

Originally posted by magicman
Are you saying that players like McLeod, Riccuito, Carey etc are going to deliberately play below their abilities Not deliberately below.

For at least two of those players, their body will take care of that for them.

[magicman]

Originally posted by DaveW
Not deliberately below.

For at least two of those players, their body will take care of that for them.
I see your point but I can't help but think that it would take a lot of serious injuries to these types of players for us to not at least make the 8.

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by magicman
Are you saying that players like McLeod, Riccuito, Carey etc are going to deliberately play below their abilities to ensure of getting a good draft pick, or do you mean that the squad we have for next year is not capable of making the finals and is on par with the bulldogs, demons etc.:confused:

Before draft picks are taken into account, in my opinion:

Adelaide - Will finish anywhere from 5-10 depending on injuries and how other teams improve.
Brisbane - Favourites for 4-in-a-row.
Carlton - Will improve, but still probably positions 12-16.
Collingwood - Top 4.
Essendon - Same boat as us.
Fremantle - Positions 5-8.
Geelong - Meh.
Hawthorn - If not for slow start would've finished top 4 last season. Top 4 this time around.
Melbourne - Meh.
North Melbourne - Meh.
Port Adelaide - Top 4.
Richmond - Will push hard for final 8.
St. Kilda - See Richmond.
Sydney - Positions 5-8.
Western Bulldogs - Meh.
West Coast - Positions 5-8.

We're in with a real fight of just making the eight this time around let alone winning the flag. We'll finish in an honest position with another load of crap draft picks and have to deal with the possible retirements of Smart, Carey, Burns and Clarke - then things get interesting.

[Jerome]

Originally posted by dyertribe

We're in with a real fight of just making the eight this time around let alone winning the flag. We'll finish in an honest position with another load of crap draft picks and have to deal with the possible retirements of Smart, Carey, Burns and Clarke - then things get interesting.

I agree with all of that, except the draft picks its too early to call atm.

[noddy]

Originally posted by dyertribe

and have to deal with the possible retirements of Smart, Carey, Burns and Clarke - then things get interesting.

Not a problem dyertribe allow me to show you the way, :)

Smart = up steps James Begley to fulfill his true potential.

Carey = young Hentschel has finally overcome his stage fright as well as put on the extra kilos.

Burns = Shuback cometh the hour cometh the man

Clarke = this is the easy one re-draft Ben Marsh :D

[macca23]

Originally posted by Porthos
If you tank 2005 instead you can get Cooney in the preseason draft for nix.

You might actually be closer to the truth than you really thought.

If Adelaide don't go forward in 2004, it will mean that their 2nd and 3rd tier players haven't taken a step up at all.

With Carey, Smart, Burns and maybe even Clarke and Stevens in their last year in 2004, the challenge in 2005 would become enormous.

Tanking 2005 might then become easier than you think.

2004 is a critical year for the Crows (and the Power too Porthos)

[Stiffy_18]

Whats with the negativity around this place lately?????? Have you guys been taking ant pills or something??????:confused:

If we can keep majority of our top players on the park we should make the top 4. If we look at 2003 season before round 19 we would have been saying that we have done a bloody good job to be where we are considering the injuries we got earlier in the year. Just because we screwed up in 4 of the last 5 games everyone is saying how we are useless.

All things being equal we are still bloody good chance to make the top 4 next year. After that anything can happen.

One thing I would like us to do is forget about winning the wizard cup crap. Concentrate on giving as many youngsters a possible go in the wizard cup. In the last 2 games of the pre-season strat playing what we think is our best 22 to get them to start geling together. The problem in 2003 was that we peaked too early IMHO.

The best 2 games we have played in the entire year was Wizard Cup GF against Collingwood and against Essendon. After that game we strated going down hill.

[Crow-mosone]

Geez some of you talk sh*t.

There isn't a lot of difference between Ayres' game plan and leigh matthews.

Kick long and straight to a contest, man on man in defence.

If you have the players, tactics are real easy. Note the 2 biggest tacticians of the last 5 - 8 years, Eade & Wallace don't have jobs.

You can confuse your players pretty easily.

the AFC is in decent shape, just disappointing they didn't improve.

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Geez some of you talk sh*t.

There isn't a lot of difference between Ayres' game plan and leigh matthews.

Made me smile.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Made me smile.

perhaps you can enlighten us as to what, say the 5 biggest differences are?

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
perhaps you can enlighten us as to what, say the 5 biggest differences are?

1. 1990 Premiership
2. 2001 Premiership
3. 2002 Premiership
4. 2003 Premiership
5. An all-round clue

My initial post cited both on-field and off-field mysteries surrounding Gary Ayres, from our performances in season 2003 to our recruiting and decisions in the past twelve months.

While one can easily wheel out the Gary Kasparov vs. A pleb with 8 queens chess metaphor when analysing the true coaching ability of Leigh Matthews, the man has runs on the board - Gary doesn't.

You could say that Lethal likes his sides to kick long to a contest and play man on man downback - but he also allows his midfield brigade to work to their full effect, wearing sides down through the centre of the ground with the likes of Aker, Voss, Black and Lappin all getting through massive amounts of work all over the park to create play, negate opponents and finish off with goals in and outside 50.

Ayres prefers to go wide to the wings, rotating his midfield regularly both off the ground and up forward while using less renowned players in out and out tagging roles for the entire game regardless of their success in doing so.

Would Matthews have left Mattner on Woewodin to let the bleached West Aussie rack up almost 40 touches?

Would Matthews have moved McGregor into an unfamiliar forward role in this season's first Showdown and left him there, leaving Tredrea and Cornes free to wreak havoc?

Would Matthews have gambled on Perrie to play on Lynch - in a cut-throat final - instead of any number of our other recognised defenders, then leave him there once it was clear that the matchup wasn't working?

While mechanically and strategically the Ayres/Matthews gameplans may be somewhat similar, in terms of tactics, flexibility, motivation and man-management Lethal is clearly the better coach.

There's also the small matter of four Premierships since 1989 at two different clubs to prove this point.

[MaccasNeighbour]

Adelaide has the playing talent but not the coaching talent. If we win the flag in 2004 it will be in spite of Gary Ayres, not because of him.

[macca23]

Originally posted by dyertribe
You could say that Lethal likes his sides to kick long to a contest and play man on man downback - but he also allows his midfield brigade to work to their full effect, wearing sides down through the centre of the ground with the likes of Aker, Voss, Black and Lappin all getting through massive amounts of work all over the park to create play, negate opponents and finish off with goals in and outside 50.

Ayres prefers to go wide to the wings, rotating his midfield regularly both off the ground and up forward while using less renowned players in out and out tagging roles for the entire game regardless of their success in doing so.

Would Matthews have left Mattner on Woewodin to let the bleached West Aussie rack up almost 40 touches?

Would Matthews have moved McGregor into an unfamiliar forward role in this season's first Showdown and left him there, leaving Tredrea and Cornes free to wreak havoc?

Would Matthews have gambled on Perrie to play on Lynch - in a cut-throat final - instead of any number of our other recognised defenders, then leave him there once it was clear that the matchup wasn't working?

While mechanically and strategically the Ayres/Matthews gameplans may be somewhat similar, in terms of tactics, flexibility, motivation and man-management Lethal is clearly the better coach.

There's also the small matter of four Premierships since 1989 at two different clubs to prove this point.

Mate, you have won your argument by the length of the straight.

Well summed up!!

[maccas_no1]

Geez it's tough these days to have an opinion with crow-monsone around:rolleyes:

[topjars]

You missed Stenglien on Milne dyertribe...

Anyhow if there were coaches in the upcoming draft and Adelaide had first pick of whats availableor keep Gazza,Id take Ayresy without blinking.

Its pretty easy to lump it all on one bloke.
Although my wrists have just healed from our early finals exit, Id still rate him 7 out of 10.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by maccas_no1
Geez it's tough these days to have an opinion with crow-monsone around:rolleyes:

Dude,
it's not that. I can't believe so many of you think the best run club in the league is so slap happy.
The coach is clueless
the recruiting is clueless
the players are clueless etc etc.

when none of this is really true. I don't think Ayres is a better coach that Matthews but he has a very good record. remember when he came in, we were spoon fodder. Blight mortgaged the future heavily on drafting recycled players, and I'm glad he did. But after, the future didn't look good and that's a large chunk of why he left. Many people thought we were a basket case then.
2 years ago we made the eight when we were predicted to finish near bottom. Then we built on that, and finished 3rd - to everyone's surprise.

But for some player lapses and a bit of luck we would have finished 2nd at the end of the minor round, and who knows what would have happened from there.

Tactics - there is a whole bunch of people up there in the box. There is a whole game plan, and the reasons for not moving a player are not always easily discernible from the outside.

recruiting, consider where most of our best 22 came from and tell me that we don't recruit well. Given where we are as a team, and where we had been expected to be, there is a lot to be proud of.

So a couple of you guys like to talk, but for f*cks sake, cut this crap out about the AFC being the shambles you and your dumbass mates might like to think of it as being from your armchairs.

It is the most professionally run club in the league, head to down to Arden st or Moorabin if you want to see this.

We all like to think we can do certain things better than the experts, but let's all remember that deep down it aint true.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by dyertribe
1. 1990 Premiership
2. 2001 Premiership
3. 2002 Premiership
4. 2003 Premiership
5. An all-round clue


very clever, no.5 was a beauty.

My initial post cited both on-field and off-field mysteries surrounding Gary Ayres, from our performances in season 2003 to our recruiting and decisions in the past twelve months.

While one can easily wheel out the Gary Kasparov vs. A pleb with 8 queens chess metaphor when analysing the true coaching ability of Leigh Matthews, the man has runs on the board - Gary doesn't.

You could say that Lethal likes his sides to kick long to a contest and play man on man downback - but he also allows his midfield brigade to work to their full effect, wearing sides down through the centre of the ground with the likes of Aker, Voss, Black and Lappin all getting through massive amounts of work all over the park to create play, negate opponents and finish off with goals in and outside 50.

what exactly does this mean, have you read it? he allows his midfield brigade to work to full effect?? what is that

Ayres prefers to go wide to the wings, rotating his midfield regularly both off the ground and up forward while using less renowned players in out and out tagging roles for the entire game regardless of their success in doing so.

that's rubbish, and despite it's detail not true. by the way do you understand the difference between coach and coaching staff. do you think all 5 of them can't see what's going on, or that ayres overrules all of them every week?

Would Matthews have left Mattner on Woewodin to let the bleached West Aussie rack up almost 40 touches?

Would Matthews have moved McGregor into an unfamiliar forward role in this season's first Showdown and left him there, leaving Tredrea and Cornes free to wreak havoc?

Would Matthews have gambled on Perrie to play on Lynch - in a cut-throat final - instead of any number of our other recognised defenders, then leave him there once it was clear that the matchup wasn't working?

see earlier comments about coaching box. isolated incidents don't mean a lot. regarding lynch, are you talking about the previous match up's that hadn't worked? are they the ones you'd have liked?


While mechanically and strategically the Ayres/Matthews gameplans may be somewhat similar, in terms of tactics, flexibility, motivation and man-management Lethal is clearly the better coach.

I don't dispute that, and that was my entire point that their game plan is very similar and this has been noted many pundits.

But how can you talk about motivation and man management when Brisbane's playing list is head and shoulders above the rest of the league. that's why the salary cap issues, that they have managed to hold the list together when other's couldn't. Credit Graeme Allen for as much of this as Matthews.

There's also the small matter of four Premierships since 1989 at two different clubs to prove this point.

more garbage, absolute moronic rubbish. many coaches just don't have the cattle to contemplate winning a flag, it's what they do with what they have. Now I agree Matthews is a great coach, but he wasn't so hot in his last 4 or 5 years at Collingwood without the cattle.

Answer me this: how many flag's do you think the AFC should have won under gary ayres? and in which years?

we have been punching above our weight for 3 years now, and you have become complacent. Not recognising the achievement in the first place, just thinking irrationally that we should have done better.
I'd have thought most of the reason we didn't do better this year was injuries that never gave us our best settled line up for any length of time. But for some reason you think it's the coaching staff.

[spindoctor]

Gary Ayres shows a distinct lack of innovation. He prepares good plans pre-game, but unfortunately he has shown time and time again that his match-day thinking isnt up to scratch.

Perrie was worth a try, but needed to be moved after the first goal or two. When McGregor accidentally swapped with Perrie for 5 minutes, it worked very well. Ayres didnt follow it through and didnt keep the match-up. Smart has a good record on Lynch, he didn't get a look in. Biglands was there, too.

Playing McLeod out of the midfield for so long in the late season was stupid. When he got his small look-ins, he dominated.

I could go on...he is just too stubborn.

[MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl]

I LOVE it when the armchair coaches come out to play!!!

Isn't if funny how we all could do better than Gary Ayers :cool:

LOL - enjoy if guys - in five minutes the alarm is going to go off and you will all be woken from your dreams!

k
xx

[macca23]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Dude,
it's not that. I can't believe so many of you think the best run club in the league is so slap happy.
The coach is clueless
the recruiting is clueless
the players are clueless etc etc.


Tactics - there is a whole bunch of people up there in the box. There is a whole game plan, and the reasons for not moving a player are not always easily discernible from the outside.



Dude,

As you like to call others.

We must read different posts.

The majority of us are very proud of the way that the club is run in general. I've never seen one post that says the AFC is run in a slap happy fashion.

Of course we don't always agree with what they do. More often than not they are going to be right for reasons that we don't know. But they do make mistakes as well, because they are actually humans and not programmed robots.

However footy is a passionate game and passsionate supporters are entitled to and always will have their opinion. E.g., you have yours.

The main area of criticism of Ayres in particular, which was basically the thrust of dyertribe's post, has alwys been in the area of match day tactics.

Ayres and his men have done a mighty job in changing Adelaide from a dishonest soft team going nowhere to one in the top bracket of teams which plays it honestly and hard.

BUT


Those examples of poor tactical matchday coaching that dyertribe gave us are all correct!!!

His only mistake was not mentioning more.

A case in point - remember the Collingwood loss after the siren, and tell me if there wasn't a coaching error involved in that loss.

It's one thing to try and suppress other opinions by criticism, but it loses something when the critic ignores facts.

I love the club and while I think it's the greatest, I'm not blind to the fact that like all clubs it has some short-comings.

[spindoctor]

I have never said I could be a better all-round coach than Ayresy. But sometimes I wish I could sit in there on match-day, and make a few changes when he's being particularly stubborn. Generally he's OK, but sometimes he just can't bite the bullet and admit he's wrong.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by spindoctor
I have never said I could be a better all-round coach than Ayresy. But sometimes I wish I could sit in there on match-day, and make a few changes when he's being particularly stubborn. Generally he's OK, but sometimes he just can't bite the bullet and admit he's wrong.

This I agree with 100%
but I strongly feel that some of the criticism of Gary Ayres get's more emotive than this. Suggesting he hasn't got a clue is ridiculous, he is very good coach and a former great player. he does know more about the game than most.

I think he has done a very good job, and he did a pretty good job down at Geelong. I wish he was more forthcoming, and he obviously has a stubborn streak.

the 2 best match day coaches I have seen in the last 10 years have been John Northey & Rodney Eade. Northey revved 'em up beforehand like no one's business, and eade was tactically very innovative - but neither's preparation of the team was very good.

I would love to combine those 2 with Gary Ayres, but if I had to choose one, I am not so unhappy with who we got.
geez would you rather grant thomas :D

[DaveW]

John Northey, now there's a very underrated coach.

He got the best out of some of the most mediocre teams in Melbourne, Richmond and the Bears.

It's a shame how it all ended for him at Brisbane.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by noddy
Clarke = this is the easy one re-draft Ben Marsh :D We really have to admire noddy's loyalty:p

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
We really have to admire noddy's loyalty:p
Admire isn't the word I would use! :o

[Jars458]

Originally posted by MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
I LOVE it when the armchair coaches come out to play!!!

Isn't if funny how we all could do better than Gary Ayers :cool:

LOL - enjoy if guys - in five minutes the alarm is going to go off and you will all be woken from your dreams!

k
xx

What so the only coment allowed on this board is about Mark Stevens bum or the next ridiculous social fucntion you and your mates are going to.

This is a very interesting thread with good comments being made on both sides. Its a real football discussion.

Supporters are allowed to criticise and are not supposed to blindly follow no matter what their team does.

Rant over.:o

[noddy]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
We really have to admire noddy's loyalty:p

Ben Marsh :confused: never heard of him.

Huddo's the man for me :) = the next S Rehn.



:cool:

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by noddy
Ben Marsh :confused: never heard of him.

Hudo's the man for me :) = the next S Rehn. Hudo?????? Who's he??????:confused:









:p

[afc9798]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Geez some of you talk sh*t.

There isn't a lot of difference between Ayres' game plan and leigh matthews.

Kick long and straight to a contest, man on man in defence.

If you have the players, tactics are real easy. Note the 2 biggest tacticians of the last 5 - 8 years, Eade & Wallace don't have jobs.

You can confuse your players pretty easily.

the AFC is in decent shape, just disappointing they didn't improve.

Sorry to say so, but as i said on the main board previously, either Ayre's gameplan is a dud or the players don't listen to him-either way it's starting to look like time for a change. For the end of last season and then first up in the Wiz. Cup this year, the ball has constantly been criss-crossing the lines and certainly has not been "long and straight to a contest". Our defence also started to show some fragility late last year when under pressure. Facts need to be faced when a gameplan is devised and Ayres seems unprepared to acknowledge the need for a more direct plan. The other area that is holding back the club, is Ayre's stubborn refusal to make changes when the momentum of a game has changed. This lost us several games last year and the same happened against St Kilda. I am of the opinion that we need Carey playing at full forward or pocket and that Perrie or Stevens (Scott), need to be given a run along CHF. I have also suggested previously that McGregor should be given a shot at CHF to see how he handles it. Ayres is very unimaginative and seems determined to allow things to go awry simply so he can say that he did it his way.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by afc9798
Sorry to say so, but as i said on the main board previously, either Ayre's gameplan is a dud or the players don't listen to him-either way it's starting to look like time for a change. For the end of last season and then first up in the Wiz. Cup this year, the ball has constantly been criss-crossing the lines and certainly has not been "long and straight to a contest". Our defence also started to show some fragility late last year when under pressure. Facts need to be faced when a gameplan is devised and Ayres seems unprepared to acknowledge the need for a more direct plan. The other area that is holding back the club, is Ayre's stubborn refusal to make changes when the momentum of a game has changed. This lost us several games last year and the same happened against St Kilda. I am of the opinion that we need Carey playing at full forward or pocket and that Perrie or Stevens (Scott), need to be given a run along CHF. I have also suggested previously that McGregor should be given a shot at CHF to see how he handles it. Ayres is very unimaginative and seems determined to allow things to go awry simply so he can say that he did it his way.

blah blah blah.

it's a trial game, relax.

[bionicsasquach]

I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree that Choco and his smurfs are chokers during finals. But you would then also have to admit that Ayres is **** under pressure. He had one of the best teams of the last 20 years in Geelong and failed to get them to the goal despite their dominance of teh league throughout the regular season. Now it appears he has done the same wiht the crows, you looked very good last year and probably had one of the most challengeable teams to Brisbanes might, how ever most have mentioned you fell down at the end of the year....That is the life of Gary Ayres. Personally i think You neede a coach in the mould of Woosha, i honestly beleive he would of lead you closer than the granny

[dyertribe]

That was an entertaining strut down Memory Promenade.

[bionicsasquach]

Originally posted by dyertribe
That was an entertaining strut down Memory Promenade. where you refering to my post?:confused: if you were are you being sarcastic

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by bionicsasquach
He had one of the best teams of the last 20 years in Geelong and failed to get them to the goal despite their dominance of teh league throughout the regular season.

your lithium dosage is running low, this is utter fiction.

95 Geelong one of the best teams of the last 20 years???

Nurse... come quickly.

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by bionicsasquach
where you refering to my post?:confused: if you were are you being sarcastic

Non. I was referring to the posts in this thread from last year.

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by bionicsasquach
... But you would then also have to admit that Ayres is **** under pressure. ... Personally i think You neede a coach in the mould of Woosha, i honestly beleive he would of lead you closer than the granny
The same Woosha who was beaten by Ayres in last years' finals. Yeah I can see your point! :o

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
The same Woosha who was beaten by Ayres in last years' finals. Yeah I can see your point! :o :D

Peter Jonas or O'Donnell. Probably leading towards Jonas as he is a local lad. Didn't Jonno lead Central District to a premiership????? Jerome?????

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
:D

Peter Jonas or O'Donnell. Probably leading towards Jonas as he is a local lad. Didn't Jonno lead Central District to a premiership????? Jerome?????
Yeah, the Bullies 1st flag I believe. Certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Yeah, the Bullies 1st flag I believe. Certainly wouldn't be a bad choice. I think we need someone who will get along well with players (not that Gary doesn't), who can think outside the square, who is imaginative and is not as stubborn as a mule. Someone who can see when a match up is not working and will react by making a change. Someone who will not be stupid enough to say to the press conference that player X didn't hurt us when its obvioust to even a blind freddy that player X was the difference between 2 teams.:rolleyes:

[dyertribe]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Yeah, the Bullies 1st flag I believe. Certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.

But didn't Peter Rohde do a sterling job while at Norwood?

[afc9798]

Originally posted by dyertribe
But didn't Peter Rohde do a sterling job while at Norwood?
Is there a coach at the moment who we would want and could realistically get? Of the top coaches Malthouse (God help me for saying that:eek: ), Matthews are not a realistic option. Matthews wants to stay in Bris. even when he's finished and Malthouse moved back to Melbourne because that's where he wants to live. Sheedy IMHO is a fool who has had some luck-5 years past his "best by" date.

If we were to change coaches it would have to be to an untried coach at AFL level ie: Mark Harvey, Guy McKenna, Shaun Rehn (my vote) or the club could try Neil Craig. The only other option is someone like Terry Wallace or Rodney Eade. One 's players hated him and the other's players were betrayed by him, so I'm not too happy with that option. Not a great scenario either way.

[Crow-mosone]

Terry wallace is a fine coach, and would be a great replacement if it comes to that.

[McAlmanac]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Peter Jonas or O'Donnell. Probably leading towards Jonas as he is a local lad. Didn't Jonno lead Central District to a premiership????? Jerome????? You're a local and you don't know that Peter Jonas was Central's first premiership coach? :(

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
:D

Peter Jonas or O'Donnell. Probably leading towards Jonas as he is a local lad. Didn't Jonno lead Central District to a premiership????? Jerome?????

Yes he did. Peter Jonas would certainly be my choice for the next AFC coach. Being Centrals inagural premiership coach is one of many reasons why I think he'd be a good choice for the club.

[maccas_no1]

Originally posted by macca23
You might actually be closer to the truth than you really thought.

If Adelaide don't go forward in 2004, it will mean that their 2nd and 3rd tier players haven't taken a step up at all.

With Carey, Smart, Burns and maybe even Clarke and Stevens in their last year in 2004, the challenge in 2005 would become enormous.

Tanking 2005 might then become easier than you think.

2004 is a critical year for the Crows (and the Power too Porthos)

My thoughts exactly there is no point in tanking this year, the whole idea of getting Carey was to have a tilt at the flag, if we waste this season then the club has gained nothing by having Carey on the list for the last two seasons. 2004 we must go for broke and go after the flag, that has to be the focus, then from 2005 onwards the rebuild begins, I know for sure though that if the AFC have a mediocre 2004 Ayres will be gone.

[Wayne's-World]

I thought this might be of interest in comparing game-styles of the leading clubs.
Got it out of "Inside Football"

Stats That Matter - The Seven Year Trend

Adelaide

..........K....MK....HB...GL..HO..TACK
1997 5067 1878 2356 369 707 868
1998 4903 1711 2517 376 1056 917
1999 3995 1519 2156 275 639 469
2000 4353 1735 2405 323 694 669
2001 4440 1628 2278 304 829 837
2002 4617 1781 2938 373 960 1095
2003 4367 1703 2821 338 1051 1092

Brisbane
1997 4382 1698 2292 310 489 745
1998 4253 1602 2475 261 637 604
1999 5045 1911 2605 404 921 696
2000 4857 2036 2692 409 776 781
2001 4795 1628 2278 304 829 924
2002 4780 2174 2711 416 928 1143
2003 4987 2296 2886 394 956 1156

Comments:
1. There's a high correlation between tackle count and the success of the team. Collingwood in 2001 had the highest tackle count in 5 years at 751. In the two years it made the grand finale, Collingwood had 1,117, and 1,111 respectively.
Are we bringing into the team, enough hard nuts, with good tackling skills?.
2. The possessions per goal comparison is :
.....Adelaide.......Brisbane
2001 22.0.............23.26
2002 20.25...........18.0
2003 21.26...........19.98
1997 20.11...........21.52
1998 19.73...........25.7
There is certainly a difference between Blights preference for kicking and not handballing, V Ayres reliance on more handball. But this is not dissimilar to Mathews and the Brisbane style with one exception - The huge disparity in Marking stats.
Are we handballing more, to run through the lines, due to our KPP players inability to take marks?

Interesting stats - whats your thoughts

[afc9798]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Terry wallace is a fine coach, and would be a great replacement if it comes to that.

Terry Wallace is another yesterday's man. His us against them, scrag and scratch game plan worked for a couple of years and then fell apart spectacularly. Wallace was universally regarded as a poor judge of talent, which is why the Bulldogs squad is where it is currently. He was a good game day coach, but was found wanting in other areas. Adelaide had the chance to recruit Wallace to coach us, but passed on him in favour of renewing Ayres' contract. Wallace strikes me as another Robert Shaw in waiting and we all know how good he was for the AFC>:eek:

[Wiljoy]

IMO Gary Ayres is such a mystery man he doesn't even know himself what he is doing.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[macca23]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World

2. The possessions per goal comparison is :
.....Adelaide.......Brisbane
2001 22.0.............23.26
2002 20.25...........18.0
2003 21.26...........19.98
1997 20.11...........21.52
1998 19.73...........25.7
There is certainly a difference between Blights preference for kicking and not handballing, V Ayres reliance on more handball. But this is not dissimilar to Mathews and the Brisbane style with one exception - The huge disparity in Marking stats.
Are we handballing more, to run through the lines, due to our KPP players inability to take marks?

Interesting stats - whats your thoughts

They are interesting stats.

The one odd year is Brisbane's first flag - the possessions per goal are high at 23.26. These stats for their other two flags are rather similar to our 1997 and 1998 flags.at around 20 or less.

They indicate a long kicking direct game which is the kiss principle. Both Blight and Matthews have been quoted as saying that footy is a simple game - get the ball and kick it long to advantage down the spine of the ground.

The other stat that really stuck out by comparison which won't surprise any one is our inability to mark contested balls. That has been our achilles heel for some years.

Good stuff Wayne's-World.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
The other stat that really stuck out by comparison which won't surprise any one is our inability to mark contested balls. That has been our achilles heel for some years. But not for much longer. In 2-3 years time when Krueger and Watts develop we will have some major marking power in our forward line. Keep in mind that Welshy and Burton should still be around by then.

I guess you can never have too many talls that consistently take contested grabs but I think in time we will address these needs. There is really no quick fix available. I guess if we can't take contested marks then our talls must make a contest and we should surround them with smart and quick crumbers.

As much as our forward line in 2002 was makeshift it did a very good job. Stevo would always give us a contest at CHF and we had Burton out of the goalsquare as agoal kicker. I still think if Stevo didn't get cleaned up against Collingwood in the prelim that year we would have gone through to the GF.

I don't understand why we can't have a very similar structure this year except we would have Carey as the iceing on the cake in FP. Perrie is no Stevo but he will give you a contest and bring it to the front of the pack.

Also I don't think its a coincidence that our possesions per goal ratio was better in 2002 than in any other year in the finals under Ayres. We can still be that effective if we get the player positioning right.

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18

As much as our forward line in 2002 was makeshift it did a very good job. Stevo would always give us a contest at CHF and we had Burton out of the goalsquare as agoal kicker. I still think if Stevo didn't get cleaned up against Collingwood in the prelim that year we would have gone through to the GF.

I don't understand why we can't have a very similar structure this year except we would have Carey as the iceing on the cake in FP. Perrie is no Stevo but he will give you a contest and bring it to the front of the pack.

Also I don't think its a coincidence that our possesions per goal ratio was better in 2002 than in any other year in the finals under Ayres. We can still be that effective if we get the player positioning right.

Amen to all of the above. It's called structure.

Go back to 97/98. Robran was not a huge marker of the ball, nor was he overly mobile. But he played at CHF where blighty wanted him to play and he wasn't allowed to move from there.

Structure.

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by afc9798
Terry Wallace is another yesterday's man. His us against them, scrag and scratch game plan worked for a couple of years and then fell apart spectacularly. Wallace was universally regarded as a poor judge of talent, which is why the Bulldogs squad is where it is currently. He was a good game day coach, but was found wanting in other areas. Adelaide had the chance to recruit Wallace to coach us, but passed on him in favour of renewing Ayres' contract. Wallace strikes me as another Robert Shaw in waiting and we all know how good he was for the AFC>:eek:

where did you get this from, there is almost nothing in the above post that I agree with. perhaps you could expand?
specifically
yesterday's man - go on.
Poor judge of talent? Isn't that the football department and recuitment's job? primarily anyway.
Good match day coach, wanting in other areas ...?

Also, When did Adelaide have the chance to recruit him, or is this just a general comment on him being without club?

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by macca23
Amen to all of the above. It's called structure.

Go back to 97/98. Robran was not a huge marker of the ball, nor was he overly mobile. But he played at CHF where blighty wanted him to play and he wasn't allowed to move from there.

Structure.

FWIW Robran was excessively mobile, and covered huge distance within a game. I remember during the first quarter on the 1998 GF he had covered more ground than most of midfielders when they tracked him.
I always thought of him more of a headless chook than anything else.

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
FWIW Robran was excessively mobile, and covered huge distance within a game. I remember during the first quarter on the 1998 GF he had covered more ground than most of midfielders when they tracked him.
I always thought of him more of a headless chook than anything else. He did cover a lot of ground there is no question about that. He wasn't a bad mark either. On his day he could dominate a game, the operative phrase being on his day.

In both GF he had no impact on the game what so ever. He couldn't take marks. He was just this big frame that was positioned at CHF and all he did was provide a contest.

I am pretty sure that Ian Perrie can provide us with a contest. Last year his game against Brisbane at the GABBA where he took Leppa and Mal Michael to cleaners and against Geelong where he took Scarlett to cleaners suggest that he is capable of playing CHF role well.

[afc9798]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
where did you get this from, there is almost nothing in the above post that I agree with. perhaps you could expand?
specifically
yesterday's man - go on.
Poor judge of talent? Isn't that the football department and recuitment's job? primarily anyway.
Good match day coach, wanting in other areas ...?

Also, When did Adelaide have the chance to recruit him, or is this just a general comment on him being without club?
1. Yesterday's man= no idea of any other technique than shutting a game down with flooding and creating masses of stoppages. His game plan worked OK because his players couldn't do much else.
2. You're correct it is the recruiting dept's job, but this is done with the direction of the senior coach and the recruiting staff follow the directives as to what sort of player they want. James Fantasia did not decide to recruit Wayne Carey, the coach said they wanted him and James' job was to go and get him. The same happens at draft time. James Fantasia will be given a list of pre-requisites and then James presents his findings on the best available talent.
3. Terry Wallace was a very proactive coach and was quick to make moves when things weren't working, but he didn't really have the cattle to make it work all the time. This is the one area where he would be far better than Gary Ayres IMHO.
4. Just before Ayres' contract was renewed (if you remeber correctly the club was holding out on renewing his agreement, but eventually succumbed to the pressure just before the finals). Wallace was supposed to be going to Sydney and I have it from a reliable source that Adelaide was also a destination that he had nominated to his manager. The club did not approach Wallace, which indicates that they determined he was not the man they wanted. Same story applies with Rodney Eade also.

[dyertribe]

BUMP.

Halfway mark of the season - I wish my thread-opening post wasn't so ****ing right.

[McLeod23]

You are da man DT - in this case, rather unfortunately.

If Essendon of '93 were the Baby Bombers - what will Adelaide of 2005 be?

Childcare Crows?

[Carmelo Anthony]

Comparing next years crows to a premiership side is an insult to the Essendon football club :p

[jmorg1]

Originally posted by McLeod23
You are da man DT - in this case, rather unfortunately.

If Essendon of '93 were the Baby Bombers - what will Adelaide of 2005 be?

Childcare Crows?

Cherubim Crows

[jc67]

Originally posted by jmorg1
Cherubim Crows
spermointicrowsus