View Full Version : 21 Jump Street
stefoid
21 Oct 2003, 16:35
I reckon most people will be suprised by how much this guy adds to the side.
He'll probably contest every centre bounce, then drop back to fill the hole just like Wyndy used to do for us. Imagine you are an opposition half back flanker or midfielder steaming upfield, and there is this 208cm guy standing 40m out from your goal. Street might not be the best contested mark going around, but at that height, hes going to be able to spoil pretty easilly.
Wynd is our ruck coach, so he should be working overtime with Street on reading the play etc...
Meanwhile Darce and Rawlings are running around the forward line, and possibly Bandy as well!
Mr. Walker
21 Oct 2003, 16:38
Given that he was 208 centimetres tall last year and the year before that and still did nothing I do not hold out great hope for a miracle (used them all up on Wiggins I am afraid).
I do hope you are right though.
stefoid
21 Oct 2003, 16:41
If we had Stphen King, we wouldnt have drafted him!
SCRAY72
21 Oct 2003, 16:53
We regularly get smashed in the centre and at the stoppages because Darcy is not a very good ruckman. He is a follower/ruckrover. If Street can create a contest and get his hands on the ball and at 208cm should be able to do that then we can adjust our game plan to suit and Darcy and Bandy can be marking targets. And Rawlings too of course.
Geelong couldn't get the mix right with King, lets see if we can make it work.
I will wait till next year before passing judgement.
Kretiuk #35
21 Oct 2003, 18:39
Originally posted by SCRAY72
We regularly get smashed in the centre and at the stoppages because Darcy is not a very good ruckman. He is a follower/ruckrover. If Street can create a contest and get his hands on the ball and at 208cm should be able to do that then we can adjust our game plan to suit and Darcy and Bandy can be marking targets. And Rawlings too of course.
Geelong couldn't get the mix right with King, lets see if we can make it work.
I will wait till next year before passing judgement.
Darcy not a good ruckman? What the?
lol, Darcy will be our #1 ruckman until he retires, hes a gun
Look at what happened when he didn't play against St Kilda, we got flogged.....
Reality is, we're $hit without Darcy, i'm sure you agree
SCRAY72
21 Oct 2003, 18:56
Originally posted by Kretiuk #35
Darcy not a good ruckman? What the?
lol, Darcy will be our #1 ruckman until he retires, hes a gun
Look at what happened when he didn't play against St Kilda, we got flogged.....
Reality is, we're $hit without Darcy, i'm sure you agree
I didn't say he is not a great player, he is an ordinary tap ruckman. Jumps too early, not a ruckman in the true sense of the word. Still prefers to grab than tap which other sides know hence he is caught holding the ball too often.
Originally posted by Kretiuk #35
Look at what happened when he didn't play against St Kilda, we got flogged.....
As opposed to the first time round, when he got flogged.
He is an ordinary ruckman. His value in the middle has mainly being getting clearances himself rather than tapping to our midfielders for them to get the clearances. He doesn't really get his hands on that many ruck contests.
He also rarely takes a contested mark around the ground.
If Street could step up and take the main ruck load, I'd rather play Darcy at FF alot of the time.
Kretiuk #35
21 Oct 2003, 19:00
Originally posted by K9-54
As opposed to the first time round, when he got flogged.
He is an ordinary ruckman. His value in the middle has mainly being getting clearances himself rather than tapping to our midfielders for them to get the clearances. He doesn't really get his hands on that many ruck contests.
He also rarely takes a contested mark around the ground.
If Street could step up and take the main ruck load, I'd rather play Darcy at FF alot of the time.
So i'm guessing you'd prefer to see Street taking the first tap out from the centre in round 1 of the 2004 season?
You make good points, but he doesn't get beaten week in and week out in my books
scooter600x
21 Oct 2003, 19:17
The problem with darcy as a ruckman is that he's just too short (also applies to Wayde Skipper).
When there was some skill in ruckwork still, Darcy more than held his own, but these stupid rule changes mean it's more important to be tall than good.
Polly Farmer and John Nicholls would have been CHF's if these rules were in place in the 60's.
Originally posted by Kretiuk #35
So i'm guessing you'd prefer to see Street taking the first tap out from the centre in round 1 of the 2004 season?
If Street is any good, I'd prefer that , yes. But I have no idea whether Street is any good so I'm not sure whether I'd even prefer him playing at Werribee yet.
Captain Sensible
21 Oct 2003, 21:16
I keep thinking back to the 2nd quarter against Brissy at Telstradome. Darcy was roaming the forward line and we really stretched them. I thought we played some of our best footy for the season that night, if Street can just hold his own in the ruck and at least make a contest we will be a much better side.
OldSchool
21 Oct 2003, 21:19
Originally posted by scooter600x
Polly Farmer and John Nicholls would have been CHF's if these rules were in place in the 60's.
What was the rule change that convinced our own Polly (Purser) into retiring early ?
I doubt that Purser could have played many other position but what a grat player he was
Captain Sensible
21 Oct 2003, 22:30
Originally posted by OldSchool
What was the rule change that convinced our own Polly (Purser) into retiring early ?
I doubt that Purser could have played many other position but what a grat player he was
I wasnt aware of any rule change. I thought it was business pressures forced him to retire early.
Anja_Nees
21 Oct 2003, 22:41
Originally posted by Kretiuk #35
Look at what happened when he didn't play against St Kilda, we got flogged.....
Reality is, we're $hit without Darcy, i'm sure you agree
The following week StKilda played Geelong. Street got 47 hitouts and 2 Brownlow votes against the same ruck combo. Should be a handy pickup for us, though I agree Darce should still spend time in the Ruck.
OldSchool
21 Oct 2003, 22:55
Originally posted by localyokel
I wasnt aware of any rule change. I thought it was business pressures forced him to retire early.
I think it was a rule change. Was it the line across the circle ??
I seem to remember him saying that he wasn't tall enough to play in the ruck especially at the centre bounces.
Around the ground he was great.
Originally posted by OldSchool
I think it was a rule change. Was it the line across the circle ??
I thought came about in the late 70s after Moore and Dempsey were wrestling
OldSchool
21 Oct 2003, 23:12
Originally posted by Ching
I thought came about in the late 70s after Moore and Dempsey were wrestling I think you are right but I am nearly sure that there was a rule change of some description
I remember he (Purser) was well respected by his ruckman peers, always gave 100% even though he was undersized. Was very disappointed we he retired because he left a huge hole. Richard Cousins come CHF comeruck come nothing, couldn't hack it and we had to fast track Scott Wynd. Which in the end probably shortened Scott Wynd career.
We were very lucky Darcy was given time to muture.
Westy_Boy
21 Oct 2003, 23:27
Like I said when Street's name came up earlier this month, if how hard we chased Brogan last year is anything to go by, someone behind the scenes has some exceptional judgement in picking ruckmen who are ready to fire at AFL level.
Looking at possible draftees and unestablished trade targets isn't all that disimilar - whether they're 17 or 23, our recruiting department are looking for signs that the player involved will cut it at senior level ... for Street, those signs would have come in the form of his performances at reserve level (it was mentioned that he was dominating in the VFL - for the first time in his career?), and his performances in the last few games at AFL level (he did ok). If he's got a bit of development left in him and 'does a Brogan', we will have done very well, especially given our structure - even if he turns out to only be a serviceable long term ruckman (to give us 3-4 years service after Darcy retires), we'll have come out of the trade ok.
The problem is that the way we negotiate, he has to become a quality long term player for the price we paid to be even remotely fair ... the genuine risk (and most likely outcome) that he may never truly establish himself hasn't been factored into what we've coughed up for him.
Dry Rot
21 Oct 2003, 23:35
Originally posted by Mr. Walker
Given that he was 208 centimetres tall last year and the year before that
Really? I heard that he was 175 cm in 2001 and 190 cm in 2002.
In 2004 I expect him to be at least 225 cm and be able to hide the ball in the roof struts of Telstra Dome when we're under the hammer.
stefoid
21 Oct 2003, 23:36
Theres no question Street can get his hand to the ball, is there? It must be very tiring for an opposition ruckman to contest against a guy 8-10 inches taller than him, even for throw-ins.
Playing two ruckman of differing styles is going to confuse the opposition as well. After they have managed to come to terms with Darce pushng and shoving and grabbing the ball, we put Street on who just jumps over the top of them.
I imagine in most cases Street will warm the bench when not assuming rucking duties, whereas Darce would rest in the forward line.
Dry Rot
21 Oct 2003, 23:39
How do you think Street compares with Spider Burton?
scooter600x
21 Oct 2003, 23:48
Originally posted by Dry Rot
Really? I heard that he was 175 cm in 2001 and 190 cm in 2002.
In 2004 I expect him to be at least 225 cm and be able to hide the ball in the roof struts of Telstra Dome when we're under the hammer.
He was a promising 203cm in 1999 before reaching a career high 217cm in 2000. The 175cm year (2001) was injury riddled, although he did add about 6cm in the last two games.
Dry Rot
21 Oct 2003, 23:57
Originally posted by scooter600x
He was a promising 203cm in 1999 before reaching a career high 217cm in 2000. The 175cm year (2001) was injury riddled, although he did add about 6cm in the last two games.
Yes, the Cats were really ****ed off with his skylarking after the 2001 pre-season cup, when he suffered massive compression fractures in his back from parachuting. Was a niggly in and under midfielder in the VFL that year, but rehab and stretching his back worked wonders for 2000.
The Doctor
22 Oct 2003, 00:19
Originally posted by Dry Rot
but rehab and stretching his back worked wonders for 2000.
I heard a rumour from a very reliable source, and you can understand that I can't name that person here, that Will Misnon is expected to undergo similar treatment.
This year he started at 198cm, by this time next year he is expected to be 215cm, in 2005 he will be 228cm and is expected to peak at 277cm by the time he is the same age as Street.
I think there is every chance Street could yet resume his role as a niggly in and under midfielder and rove to him a few years down the track.
SCRAY72
22 Oct 2003, 11:29
Taking his height into account, Andrew Purser is one of the best ruckmen I have seen.
Back to the Street question. I think it is a gamble the club had to take and I wouldn't be surprised, picking up another ruckman, was part of Darcy's contract re-negotiation.
The Doctor
22 Oct 2003, 11:40
Now the Bulldogs have 2 AFL ready ruckmen
Darcy - the mobile ruck roving type who can go forward
Street - the tap specialist
I still think we need to identify another young ruckman either from within the club or from the draft. One we can develop into a ruck specialist. Not a spare parts man.
Skipper, Minson and Wight are the guys we have at the club now. It would appear the club see them as Key position players who can help out in the ruck. All are under 200cm.
Can anyone see any of these guys becoming a potential leading ruckman for us?
Isdogisgood
22 Oct 2003, 13:56
It would seem that the club is not trying to develop either Skipper, Minson or Wight into becoming a no1 ruckman. We need to draft someone we see as being capable of filling this role very soon as they will need plenty of time to develop...before Darcy retires. Perhaps we could pick one up with the no. 50 selection in the draft??
The Doctor
22 Oct 2003, 14:03
Originally posted by Isdogisgood
Perhaps we could pick one up with the no. 50 selection in the draft??
that's what I was thinking ;) .
Isdogisgood
22 Oct 2003, 14:06
Originally posted by The Doctor
that's what I was thinking ;) .
Got anyone in mind? I suppose you want to wait for the phantom draft.
The Doctor
22 Oct 2003, 14:10
Originally posted by Isdogisgood
Got anyone in mind? I suppose you want to wait for the phantom draft.
There are a couple about who could still be around by that stage. Of course you don't take one just for the sake of it they need to be able to play well.
If we don't nab one this year we must make it a priority for next year I would think.
stefoid
22 Oct 2003, 15:33
I thought Wight was a ruckman?
Captain Sensible
22 Oct 2003, 15:33
Originally posted by The Doctor
I still think we need to identify another young ruckman either from within the club or from the draft. One we can develop into a ruck specialist. Not a spare parts man.
Skipper, Minson and Wight are the guys we have at the club now. It would appear the club see them as Key position players who can help out in the ruck. All are under 200cm.
Can anyone see any of these guys becoming a potential leading ruckman for us?
Minson does a lot of one on one work with Scott Wynd at training. I would think that the club have identified him as the best ruck prospect from our batch of developing talls. The kid is huge and still growing-those jokes about him finishing at 277 cms might not be far from the truth.
Captain Sensible
22 Oct 2003, 15:35
Originally posted by Dry Rot
Really? I heard that he was 175 cm in 2001 and 190 cm in 2002.
In 2004 I expect him to be at least 225 cm and be able to hide the ball in the roof struts of Telstra Dome when we're under the hammer.
I think its a reportablre offence to kick the ball into the roof at Telstra Dome. I dont know how the AFL would react to guys hiding the ball up there.
Originally posted by stefoid
I thought Wight was a ruckman?
The way the coaching staff has talked about Wight this year & played him for Werribee it seems they are grooming Wight for Centre Half Back.
OldSchool
22 Oct 2003, 19:25
Originally posted by stefoid
I thought Wight was a ruckman?
He was as a junior but he will need time before he could do that at the senior level. With his mobility, a go at CHB seems to be a great opportunity for him
Dog Town
22 Oct 2003, 20:39
Originally posted by stefoid
I reckon most people will be suprised by how much this guy adds to the side.
He'll probably contest every centre bounce, then drop back to fill the hole just like Wyndy used to do for us. Imagine you are an opposition half back flanker or midfielder steaming upfield, and there is this 208cm guy standing 40m out from your goal. Street might not be the best contested mark going around, but at that height, hes going to be able to spoil pretty easilly.
Wynd is our ruck coach, so he should be working overtime with Street on reading the play etc...
Meanwhile Darce and Rawlings are running around the forward line, and possibly Bandy as well! I would be very suprised if he is able to do anything besides contest the centre bounce.His only value after the bounce would be just to put a big body in the hole because from what I have seen he wouldn't be doing to much backing back and intercepting passes.Darcy will still play the majority in the ruck I would say especially if the ruck rule reverts back to its original form.Happy to be proven wrong but I am not getting excited about a guy who has played one handy game of AFL footy.