View Full Version : Post Trade, Pre Draft 2004 Line Up
evertonfc
22 Oct 2003, 00:51
B: Robbins - Croft - Hargrave
HB: Smith - Grant - Koops
C: Murphy - West - Johnson
HF: Giansiracusa - Walsh - Eagleton
F: Faulkner - Bandy - Bowden
Foll: Darcy - Hahn - Gilbee
Int: Skipper - Power - McMahon - Street
Reserves: Dimmatina, Boyd, Power, Garlick, Minson, Cross, Wiggins, Harris, Harrison, McGuiness, Birss, Morgan, Bassett.
Food for thought:
Can Tim Walsh and Cameron Faulkner start despite not playing in 2003?
Yes. I think the kids need to be thrown to the wolves. While most will agree with Faulkner, Walsh is the one who will most probably draw your ire. He's had his year off, and will be better for it. But he needs to be brought in ASAP. I believe there is such a thing as keeping a player on ice too long.
Wayde Skipper shapes up as another option to take the CHF position, as he has more experience.
Shane Birss not in the 22?
We all acknowledge that Shane Birss is a talent who's taking major strides with every game he plays, but I just feel that Sam Power and Jordan McMahon are slightly ahead of him at this stage.
Not far away, though.
Are Matthew Croft and Chris Grant still capable?
Grant certainly is, and I'm sure that Crofty still has another season of elite backline football left in him. Injuries and being played up forward distorted his 2003 season, but I'm positive that Croft has what it takes to return to his 2001-2 form if everything falls into place.
Harris will be pushing firmly for a spot in the back half, while Rohde showed he hasn't totally committed Bowden to the forward line.
Didn't you just say that young guys needed to be played? Yet the defence is Dad's army!
Fair call. I feel however, that the Dogs' attacking structure doesn't need the maturity as urgently as the back half does.
Losing Brown is a major blow, but I'm sure that Bowden, Faulkner, Walsh and Skipper will step up in 2004 to fill the attacking void left by Grant, Garlick and Brown.
Perhaps Brian Harris can be eased into the FB position as a replacement for Crofty, but I think that the Dogs need some mature defensive stock and some attacking youthful flair.
Future Additions to the side
If Rawlings comes in, then it's fair to say that Walsh would go straight to the bench.
Cooney + Bradley (at a pinch) might need a little work at Weribee to begin with, but will no doubt feature in 2004.
What are your thoughts, guys?
Rocco Jones
22 Oct 2003, 00:59
Harris will be our full back, Croft will be a spare parts man.
Walsh is too raw, has spent vast majority of season in Bees 2nds so going straight into a CHF role round 1 is a bit much, I think he will play a handful of senior games but just looking at it being a development year for him.
Borgsta
22 Oct 2003, 01:00
Not a bad side, not too sure about Robbins staying in the backline. I think he makes too many mistakes when the pressure is on. Also Gilbee in the middle to start the season, i dont think will happen. I wouldnt mind seeing Robbins in the middle to add a tough nut and someone who isnt afraid of putting their head in.
and i agree with Rocca, harris will b full back
As usual everton ur contribution has been well thought and is appreciated.
Rocco Jones
22 Oct 2003, 01:02
Robbins shouldn't play in backline, gets heaps kicked on high. Playing him up the ground will minimise his weaknesses more than it will reduce his strengths.
evertonfc
22 Oct 2003, 01:37
Originally posted by Rocco Jones
Harris will be our full back, Croft will be a spare parts man.
Walsh is too raw, has spent vast majority of season in Bees 2nds so going straight into a CHF role round 1 is a bit much, I think he will play a handful of senior games but just looking at it being a development year for him.
Fair point, I appreciate that youth is the answer, but for my linking as of Round One 2004, Brian Harris at FB spells suicide.
He lacks the mental and physical accountability at the moment, and although impressed spasmodically in defence last year, he needs to curb his rash temper and learn to beat his man.
Croft is clearly the better option at this stage, but I don't deny that as the season goes on, Harris may shape as better prospect with a view to future defensive success.
As for Walsh, he needs to be blooded. A year off is enough. He needs to get a taste for senior football as of Round One next season. Not saying he has to play all 22 games - but Rohde needs to show him a little faith. It will do wonders for his development.
Originally posted by Borgsta
Not a bad side, not too sure about Robbins staying in the backline. I think he makes too many mistakes when the pressure is on. Also Gilbee in the middle to start the season, i dont think will happen. I wouldnt mind seeing Robbins in the middle to add a tough nut and someone who isnt afraid of putting their head in.
and i agree with Rocca, harris will b full back
Originally posted by Rocco Jones
Robbins shouldn't play in backline, gets heaps kicked on high. Playing him up the ground will minimise his weaknesses more than it will reduce his strengths.
Robbins is better than what you give him credit for.
His disposal is far better than what most people think. He is quick, can take an opposition small forward out of the game and has the footy smarts. Never gives in and has proven in the past few years that he is determined to become an integral part of the Dogs' defence. The 'hard man' role is already taken - Mitch Hahn and Scotty West have this sewn up.
While I wouldn't mind him in the midfield, the Dogs need a small defender to handle the Milne's and Matera's of the league. The time has come for Murphy to shift up to the midfield, and that means Robbins is realistically the only player who's fit to take that position.
Daniel Cross may come into the side during the year, but I'd still take Robbins at this stage.
Putting Lindsay Gilbee in was a tough one, but I think the time has come for #9 to step up and hit the centre square. He has the talent and poise to go a very long way, and I'd prefer him in the middle over 'outside' midfielders like Power, Murphy and McMahon.
Originally posted by Borgsta
As usual everton ur contribution has been well thought and is appreciated.
Thanks mate,
Only decent Dogs board I can find to post at is this one, so we need to look after it!
Rocco Jones
22 Oct 2003, 03:21
Originally posted by evertonfc
Robbins is better than what you give him credit for.
Mate I rate Robbins very highly, I just think he could be of better service to us in the midfield or up forward. I'd use him a bit like the Eagles use Chick, having a guy with defensive skills up forward will help keep the ball there at times.
evertonfc
22 Oct 2003, 03:26
Originally posted by Rocco Jones
Mate I rate Robbins very highly, I just think he could be of better service to us in the midfield or up forward. I'd use him a bit like the Eagles use Chick, having a guy with defensive skills up forward will help keep the ball there at times.
Well said.
He could very well be a defensive forward; certainly if his position in defence can be covered, I would consider this role for Sexy.
Originally posted by evertonfc
Brian Harris at FB spells suicide.
Don't agree with that at all. With Grant at CHB and possibly Croft along side at BP, smith at HB, there are enough cool heads there to help him out. His performance in the last round against Lynch was very encouraging considering Lynch's great final series.
As for Walsh, he needs to be blooded.
Not for round 1 2004. Blood in the wizard cup or practices matches and if he performed well then start him off the bench. He missed a lot of footy late last year and even then before that wasn't dominating. Skipper a better option at the moment.
Robbins-can take an opposition small forward out of the game
That hardly happened in 2003 when almost all small forwards kicked goals against us. Yes he was under constant pressure but performances in past years at BP haven't been that consistent.
Thanks EFC!
stefoid
22 Oct 2003, 11:50
Robbo will be played in defence, Rhode answered that question on Rhode replies late last year.
He has demonstrated an ability to improve each year, people have come down hard on him for a relatively few glaring mistakes...OK he is a back pocket so mistakes often result directly in goals, but our clanger king last year was darcy by a huge margin.
Robbos kicking under little pressure is excelent, hes a real 90m player. He needs to work on his disposal under pressure, particularly handball.
With a decent spine, and less pressure on the backline (accountability through the midfield and forwad line), he wont be under the pump so much, he'll do fine.
Prior to the WC game, I couldn't remember any mistakes in 4 years that Robbo made in the back pocket. His courage has always been of the highest order. I think that mistake he made late in the WC game sapped his confidence for the rest of the year (Marty McGrath even carved him up!!), but expect to see the real Robbo back in action come Round 1. Anyway, that mistake ultimately helped us get Cooney :)
Gilbo_Fan
22 Oct 2003, 13:17
I agree with comments on Robbins, in a better performed side his job would be easier. Robbins is still a class act.
As for Walsh and Faulkner, remember we are talking about two 18 year old kids who are coming off broken legs and feet respectively.
If they get a taste of senior football in 2004 that would be a good result because it will mean there form at W'Bee was good. It would be even better if the play well in the games they get.
But it is unrealistic to expect either of them to be starting 18 players, particularly Tim Walsh as KP prospects take longer.
Arsene Wenger
22 Oct 2003, 13:20
That side will win maybe 6 or 7 games next season... be honest about it, it is still an average side compared to likes or brisbane, coll wood, port, adelaide essendon , perth sides, hawthorn and sydney
dogman22
22 Oct 2003, 13:38
Originally posted by Arsene Wenger
That side will win maybe 6 or 7 games next season... be honest about it, it is still an average side compared to likes or brisbane, coll wood, port, adelaide essendon , perth sides, hawthorn and sydney
Correct, but keep in mind that you could potentially add Adam Cooney, Colin Sylvia/Kepler Bradley and Jade Rawlings to that line-up come Round 1 2004, who aren't there due to constraints of the post!!
Arsene Wenger
22 Oct 2003, 13:40
Absolutely, I live in adelaide, il be honest with u, I dont like cooney, but thats just me, U should go for bradley or sylvia in my eyes, good luk to the doggies
Is scotty basset still there?
will he get a game?
Isdogisgood
22 Oct 2003, 13:48
It is ridiculous to make predictions like that and narrow it down to 6-7 wins. Many so called experts tipped Sydney to finish bottom this year. Brisbane, Port Adelaide and Collingwood....then the rest this year. A lot of changes will be made (some already) by next year to all teams. We are not that far off. What is your opinion based on? Compare the 2004 side to 2003 side.
Dry Rot
22 Oct 2003, 14:04
If the full 2004 list is available, it is much much better team than that of 2003.
But how many games will we win? Will we make the 8?
Buggered if I (or anyone else) know.
sfish54
22 Oct 2003, 21:41
I think we need to put in Walsh and Fualkner in the side as soon as possible to give then some experience, even though they have just had some big injuries.
evertonfc
22 Oct 2003, 23:46
Originally posted by sfish54
I think we need to put in Walsh and Fualkner in the side as soon as possible to give then some experience, even though they have just had some big injuries.
Let the kids go wild, I say.
They've had a year off, that's long enough for me, now show some faith in the lads and let them do their thang.
Westy_Boy
23 Oct 2003, 00:35
Originally posted by sfish54
I think we need to put in Walsh and Fualkner in the side as soon as possible
They're not ready - inexperienced 18 year olds 15-20kgs below their ideal playing weight getting pummelled and embarassed by seasoned performers doesn't help their development.
Walsh should aim to establish himself at VFL level, maybe dominate a game or two, then look for 4-5 games off the bench in the seniors. Ditto Faulkner, except he's a little more physically developed and will probably aim for a few more senior matches.
I didn't agree with the short-term trade strategy, but youngsters being given more time to develop is certainly a big advantage of going down that path.
sfish54
23 Oct 2003, 01:32
When faulkner broke his foot i felt sorry for him as he was supposed to play AFL senior the next week. I think he is ready to play in the seniors in either round 1 or 2 of 2004 priemiership season.
Westy_Boy
23 Oct 2003, 01:51
Originally posted by sfish54
When faulkner broke his foot i felt sorry for him as he was supposed to play AFL senior the next week.
You've gotta remember that it was at a time when we had about a dozen injuries - with a full list to choose from he probably would have been a little further away from a senior berth.
Faulkner will hopefully be given a run in the Wizard cup, and if he performs well he might be a starter come round 1. But considering that he's competiting with the likes of McMahon, Cross, Birss, Power, Boyd, Cooney etc, as well as a host of other more established types for a spot in our top 22, I reckon mid-season might be a more realistic time frame for his debut.
ReservoirDog
23 Oct 2003, 05:42
Originally posted by Arsene Wenger
That side will win maybe 6 or 7 games next season... be honest about it, it is still an average side compared to likes or brisbane, coll wood, port, adelaide essendon , perth sides, hawthorn and sydney
I agree with the above. Look at the forward line and think about how many goals it would kick, week in week out.
HF: Giansiracusa - Walsh - Eagleton
F: Faulkner - Bandy - Bowden
I hope im wrong.
IA CORN
23 Oct 2003, 07:19
This what I think the team would look like as of the right now after trading:
B: Birss Harris Hargrave
HB: Smith Morgan Koops
C: McMahon Murphy Power
HF: Johnson Bandy K mac
F: Faulkner Grant Bowden
R: Darcy Hahn West
Int: Street Gia Gilbee Skipper
Emg: Robbins Boyd Walsh Minson
I think we have a pretty good balance include Rawlings, Cooney and Sylvia in that and I think were a pretty good chance of doing a fremantle and make the 8.
Mr. Walker
23 Oct 2003, 08:58
This is not crying over spilt milk but with the recent delistings by other clubs there seem to be some good opportunities to pick up some talls very cheap. After all we do have first pick in the PSD. Oh I fogot, by not securing Rawlings in the trade period we have committed that pick already. Pity
Bulldog1954
23 Oct 2003, 13:01
Walsh does not need to be blooded in round 1, and he most definitely does not need to be blooded in the hardest and most important position on the ground
Originally posted by Mr. Walker
This is not crying over spilt milk but with the recent delistings by other clubs there seem to be some good opportunities to pick up some talls very cheap. After all we do have first pick in the PSD. Oh I fogot, by not securing Rawlings in the trade period we have committed that pick already. Pity
And how were we supposed to secure Rawlings when he refused to come here? You make it sound as if it was the club's fault.
What other talls would like us to take with pick 1? Glenn Manton? None of the others are anywhere near the quality of Rawlings.
SCRAY72
23 Oct 2003, 14:19
Originally posted by Curly5
And how were we supposed to secure Rawlings when he refused to come here? You make it sound as if it was the club's fault.
What other talls would like us to take with pick 1? Glenn Manton? None of the others are anywhere near the quality of Rawlings.
Agreed Curly
The club wanted compensation for Judas and they identified Rawlings from the start. Luckily for us the Kangas trade fell over.
A key position player that can play both ends at the peak of his career.
Mr. Walker
23 Oct 2003, 14:29
Originally posted by Curly5
And how were we supposed to secure Rawlings when he refused to come here? You make it sound as if it was the club's fault.
What other talls would like us to take with pick 1? Glenn Manton? None of the others are anywhere near the quality of Rawlings.
I am saying the club should have worked harder to secure Rawlings during the trade period. The facts should have been laid out and Rawlings convinced that coming to us was the best outcome.
And Glenn Manton - just how dumb do you think I am?
Isdogisgood
23 Oct 2003, 14:37
Originally posted by Mr. Walker
I am saying the club should have worked harder to secure Rawlings during the trade period. The facts should have been laid out and Rawlings convinced that coming to us was the best outcome.
Realistically that would not have been possible. Consider the situation from Rawlings point of view. It was a fair effort in itself to construct a deal that Hawthorn were happy enough with to not take a deal from the Roos.
Bulldog1954
23 Oct 2003, 15:08
The club would have tried as hard as possible to convince Jade that Whitten Oval was the place to be. But playing with his brother was obviously important to him and it would be hard for our club to convince him we are the best team to come to when we are broke, came last and have asked players for pay cuts in the past.
It should also be remembered that when we did the deal to get Rawlings into the PSD we did not know that no deal had been done for Stevens. when you look at it closely IMO we did very well out of the trade period and have moer then compensated for the loss of a class player
evertonfc
24 Oct 2003, 01:44
Originally posted by ReservoirDog
I agree with the above. Look at the forward line and think about how many goals it would kick, week in week out.
HF: Giansiracusa - Walsh - Eagleton
F: Faulkner - Bandy - Bowden
I hope im wrong.
Dogs have kicked plenty of goals in the past few years, but they need to cover the 50 kicked by Brown.
I reckon Walsh, Eagleton and Faulkner can get at least 20 each.
Giansiracusa, Bandy and Bowden should all get 30+.
Johnson will probably shift forward, and as we know, can kick anywhere up to 50 goals depending on where he plays.
Wayde Skipper should be able to chip in with a few, and don't forget Rohan Smith. Could kick 30 between them.
Luke Darcy should be able to rotate with Bandy and Street, ensuring he spends ample time in the forward line. Should get 1-2 goals every game.
I'm not worried about goals at all. Plenty of fire power from all quarters.
It's the backline that needs work.
The Doctor
24 Oct 2003, 08:11
Originally posted by Curly5
And how were we supposed to secure Rawlings when he refused to come here? You make it sound as if it was the club's fault.
Who's fault is it then?
The fact remains we don't have him and may not get him. As you say he didn't want to come to us and could still make it excruciatingly difficult for us to get him, even now. He can still place a huge fee on his head.
What then? Will we still be seen as clever?
This is a high risk move with a very high price that has already paid.
We can only pray now that it all works out for us.
But even then the cost has been a potential 200 game champion, plus ALvey, plus a good player in the PSD, which is just a bit exhorbitant.
Mr. Walker
24 Oct 2003, 08:58
The Doc and I are in agreement here (as we are in most things - such as an ability to spot and assess young football talent;) ;) :p )
My whole point is that the club traded away too much on just a "maybe" with Rawlings. If you give away pick 6 you should be certain you get your man IMO.
Originally posted by The Doctor
Who's fault is it then?
The fact remains we don't have him and may not get him. As you say he didn't want to come to us and could still make it excruciatingly difficult for us to get him, even now. He can still place a huge fee on his head.
What then? Will we still be seen as clever?
This is a high risk move with a very high price that has already paid.
We can only pray now that it all works out for us.
But even then the cost has been a potential 200 game champion, plus ALvey, plus a good player in the PSD, which is just a bit exhorbitant.
So you're saying that the club should have known that trying to get a player of Rawlings' calibre was going to be too difficult and not worth the effort and risk. The very first high-profile player ever to come anywhere near being signed by us and we should have backed off.
Who dares wins.
Originally posted by Mr. Walker
just how dumb do you think I am?
:rolleyes:
Pretty slow from Sporty/PC here.
The Doctor
24 Oct 2003, 12:01
Originally posted by Curly5
So you're saying that the club should have known that trying to get a player of Rawlings' calibre was going to be too difficult and not worth the effort and risk. The very first high-profile player ever to come anywhere near being signed by us and we should have backed off.
Who dares wins.
I have never said that at all.
There is another saying that could be applied here. 'A fool and his money is easily parted'. This is a very realistic possibility for us.
What will you say if we don't get him and we are the laughing stock of the league?
When you are going to part with so much you want some guarantee of a return. Not some faint hope.
Our on field future is at stake here. Whether we get him or not the price will still have been a huge one to pay. And it is not Jonathon Brown or Michael Voss we are getting here.
The issue that still remains is the one where we make the club attractive to good players to come to so we do not have to resort to such tactics. Pick 6 + Alvey should have been more than enough and would have been for most clubs. Then we could have used the psd pick on another good player making us even stronger.
As I've said earlier the club would have deserved untold praise had they landed Rawlings at this cost, but they haven't. So this is the area that our club has got to work harder to fix up.