View Full Version : cooney and tenace
murphy2bedabest
22 Oct 2003, 11:46
i have a strong feel that tenace might still be around by pick 4. now with 1 cooney is 99% to be that pick but a few comments form cart and melb in the past month or so cart were happy to keep there number 2 pick so they can take raph clarke as for melb they said at the draft camp that they were after leadership and the have seen that in DUNN if that was to go that way tenace would be left to pick up number 4 and take him with rawling in psd along with koops street morgan and veale a few handy pick ups
Walker will go before Tenace IMHO, Carlton may take him, I wouldnt mind seeing Colin Sylvia at North.
Go Roos in 2004
Latest talk from Carlton is that Walker is now a shoo-in for pick 2. Really depends on what Melbourne want from pick 3. If it's a tall, then it will be Bradley, if it's a midfielder it will be Sylvia. So that leaves us with Tenace either way by the looks. Bombers should also be happy as pick 6 might end up being Clarke or Ray.
The Doctor
22 Oct 2003, 11:56
sorry I couldn't understand most of that but I gather you were suggesting we pick up Tenace with pick 4.
My answer to that is an emphatic NO.
While he is skilfull and has terrific pace he is essentially an outside player. We have enough of these on our list. I also think he goes missing at crunch times or when matched up on competent opponenets. He will rip apart lesser teams. Could be another Fiora.
I would rather we go for an inside player which Dunn is or Sylvia is. Alternatively a prolific ball winner who would be difficult to contain, like Bradley. Or someone who can add flair to our forward or defensive lines in which case Clarke and Walker would have to prime considerations. Just don't think we need another receiving winger.
SCRAY72
22 Oct 2003, 12:00
I agree with Doc, don't need another outside midfielder.
I'm not suggesting that Tenace will definitely be pick 4. My suspicion is that we will get Sylvia (as Melbourne will get Bradley). I am saying that Tenace looks like he will now be available at pick 4, and he has been the pick 2 flavour of the month all year, and all of a sudden he has gone down the pecking order. To be honest, I don't know enough about the under 18's, but a mate who works for Eastern Rangers has been giving me the mail on the Victorians, and he has rated Tenace and Sylvia as the standout midfielders. Walker as a long term option, and he also talked up Brock McLean as the premier in and under midfielder. Fergus Watts was supposedly the best KP Victorian
Originally posted by murphy2bedabest
i have a strong feel that tenace might still be around by pick 4. now with 1 cooney is 99% to be that pick but a few comments form cart and melb in the past month or so cart were happy to keep there number 2 pick so they can take raph clarke as for melb they said at the draft camp that they were after leadership and the have seen that in DUNN if that was to go that way tenace would be left to pick up number 4 and take him with rawling in psd along with koops street morgan and veale a few handy pick ups
Help Grammar Police!!!!!:confused:
What does all this mean?? A few well placed full stops would be a big advantage. :D
dogman22
22 Oct 2003, 12:37
If we had the choice of Sylvia or Tenace at 4, then I'd take Sylvia. Why, you ask? In browsing several posts on the potential draftees since I've been here, a generalisation about Tenace is that he's an outside midfielder, whereas I read a post yesterday about Sylvia that mentioned his hardness at the ball, and that he's got a "generous dose of the C-word".
I believe that we have enough outside midfield types (Eagleton, Giansiracusa, Dimmatina), and that someone who can get the ball out is invaluable. Imagine Hahn, Cooney and Sylvia in the same midfield, then with the above mentioned plus Murphy, Smith and Koops streaming past them, delivering to Bandy, Bowden and (hopefully) Rawlings in the forward line. Sounds like something that a game plan can be built around
brunswick ben
22 Oct 2003, 12:46
Originally posted by Mo7
Help Grammar Police!!!!!:confused:
What does all this mean?? A few well placed full stops would be a big advantage. :D
The internet is for all people if you dont want to use grammar fine.
Its big footy for godsake not an ESL lesson
Gilbo_Fan
22 Oct 2003, 13:11
I am not sure why you can consider Dimmatina an outside player.
Its a fine balance between inside and outside, too many inside and you get cut up for leg speed, too many outside and then there are downhill skier accusations. Basically the modern footballer has to be able to do both.
Rhode has said previously that the challenge for our young runners is to develop inside/defensive skills. Simon Black is the role model as he can do it all.
Originally posted by brunswick ben
The internet is for all people if you dont want to use grammar fine.
Its big footy for godsake not an ESL lesson
Exactly my point Ben! A few full stops would make it readable for all people on the internet. Quite frankly I'm still trying to translate it.
:(
stefoid
22 Oct 2003, 15:39
Originally posted by Gilbo_Fan
I am not sure why you can consider Dimmatina an outside player.
Its a fine balance between inside and outside, too many inside and you get cut up for leg speed, too many outside and then there are downhill skier accusations. Basically the modern footballer has to be able to do both.
Rhode has said previously that the challenge for our young runners is to develop inside/defensive skills. Simon Black is the role model as he can do it all.
Dimma has a good balance, but his disposal/descion making is pretty ordinary. A few players like dimma, darce, robbins etc... seem to suffer from a need to pinpoint the ball 100% of the time, and end up putting themselves under big pressure or coughing it up.
We need to be prepared to play the percentages more and just bang it for distance a bit more frequently, I reckon. Take the pressure off ourselves a bit. Especially if we are to be more accountable...means we will be winning more contested ball, but handling it less frequently. what does L.mathews say? 2 kicks to every handball? Dont know what our percentage is, but its probably the reverse.
murphy2bedabest
22 Oct 2003, 18:02
Originally posted by Sedat!
I'm not suggesting that Tenace will definitely be pick 4. My suspicion is that we will get Sylvia (as Melbourne will get Bradley). I am saying that Tenace looks like he will now be available at pick 4, and he has been the pick 2 flavour of the month all year, and all of a sudden he has gone down the pecking order. To be honest, I don't know enough about the under 18's, but a mate who works for Eastern Rangers has been giving me the mail on the Victorians, and he has rated Tenace and Sylvia as the standout midfielders. Walker as a long term option, and he also talked up Brock McLean as the premier in and under midfielder. Fergus Watts was supposedly the best KP Victorian
agree tenace isn't the player we need at the moment (but what bout in 3-5 years time) but i still think he would be around by pick 4 with walker, sylivia and mclean. now brock would be a handy pick up. he is one of the best inside midfilders (what we need) as well he really stood up in the finals he was best on in the granny, and in the best in all the finals, this is what we need, look at the pies they have so many good players all season when the finals come round the don't stand up.
OldSchool
22 Oct 2003, 18:58
Originally posted by The Doctor
sorry I couldn't understand most of that but I gather you were suggesting we pick up Tenace with pick 4.
My answer to that is an emphatic NO.
While he is skilfull and has terrific pace he is essentially an outside player. We have enough of these on our list. I also think he goes missing at crunch times or when matched up on competent opponenets. He will rip apart lesser teams. Could be another Fiora.
Doc, I have seen Tenace several times of over the last two years and I don't think your comparision to Fiora is accurate nor is regarding him as an outside midfielder.
I have seen two or three games in particular this year where he has been a a real in an under baller getter. One 40 plus possession game in very heavy rain really highlighted to me that he is a very versatile and capable midfielder.
I would think he would be in the mix for the number 4 selection with a lot of other quality guys but there are also a few I would rate ahead of him.
The player that really excites me apart from the top 3 of Cooney, Sylvia, Walker is Ryley Dunn. Hard-at-it midfielder that is exactly what we need.
Anyway, all year people have talked about Farren Ray all but at the Bulldogs. Our picks 1 & 4 may very well already be settled as far as the recruiting people are concerned.
OldSchool
22 Oct 2003, 19:19
Originally posted by Tank
The player that really excites me apart from the top 3 of Cooney, Sylvia, Walker is Ryley Dunn. Hard-at-it midfielder that is exactly what we need.
Anyway, all year people have talked about Farren Ray all but at the Bulldogs. Our picks 1 & 4 may very well already be settled as far as the recruiting people are concerned.
Ryley Dunn is a very talented footballer who is mature beyond his years. Can play as a forward, defender or as a midfielder.
The only doubts I have about him is that he is a step slow and he does rely on his marking strength. I'm not sure his marking strength will be as evident in the AFL. He is a bit of a tweener but you cant underrate his ball getting skils nor his work ethic.
Nice kid as well and will try his utmost to make it at the senior level
The Doctor
22 Oct 2003, 19:36
Originally posted by OldSchool
Doc, I have seen Tenace several times of over the last two years and I don't think your comparision to Fiora is accurate nor is regarding him as an outside midfielder.
I have seen two or three games in particular this year where he has been a a real in an under baller getter. One 40 plus possession game in very heavy rain really highlighted to me that he is a very versatile and capable midfielder.
I would think he would be in the mix for the number 4 selection with a lot of other quality guys but there are also a few I would rate ahead of him.
He is an outsider in my opinion.
Especially when the going gets hot and this what I was suggesting in my earlier post. I don't dispute he can get the hard ball but he is not like McLean or Dunn or a few others who are always right in the thick of it. He does his best work when running off the packs and dashing away.
Fiora might be a rough call but he was much the same at a similar age. If there is a highly rated prospect this year that could disappoint I suspect it could be him.
Dog Town
22 Oct 2003, 20:44
Originally posted by stefoid
We need to be prepared to play the percentages more and just bang it for distance a bit more frequently, I reckon. Take the pressure off ourselves a bit. Especially if we are to be more accountable...means we will be winning more contested ball, but handling it less frequently. what does L.mathews say? 2 kicks to every handball? Dont know what our percentage is, but its probably the reverse. Nailed it Stefoid!Our skills are not neccesarily worse than any other teams its just the ridiculous amount of pressure our game plan puts on our players to spot up a target.Poor Rob Murphy has copped it all year.He is on the end of every second rebound from 50 and gets the ball and has to try and split 4 players to find a free man.
scooter600x
23 Oct 2003, 00:30
Originally posted by The Doctor
sorry I couldn't understand most of that but I gather you were suggesting we pick up Tenace with pick 4.
My answer to that is an emphatic NO.
While he is skilfull and has terrific pace he is essentially an outside player. We have enough of these on our list. I also think he goes missing at crunch times or when matched up on competent opponenets. He will rip apart lesser teams. Could be another Fiora.
I would rather we go for an inside player which Dunn is or Sylvia is. Alternatively a prolific ball winner who would be difficult to contain, like Bradley. Or someone who can add flair to our forward or defensive lines in which case Clarke and Walker would have to prime considerations. Just don't think we need another receiving winger.
I've only seen Tenace play once (vs. Vic Metro) and at the time I had no idea who he was (I was being a Melbourne supporter - go no. 25).
I thought he looked more like an inside player than an outside player that day. Looked to me like he got his own ball.
Along with Fergus Watts, Tenace was the standout for me that day.
sfish54
23 Oct 2003, 01:48
For our number four pick we should get either Bradley or Tenace but lately I heard that Carlton's number 1 option would be to use their number 2 pick on Tenace.
stefoid
23 Oct 2003, 17:49
This is his summary from the main board link. Looks like he could crack into an AFL team on a half back flank or wing in his first year.
Details:
Club: Shepparton Bears
DOB: 4 Jul 85 Hgt: 181cm Wgt: 80kg
Position: Wing
Natural foot: Right
Honours:
Victoria Country 2002, 2003
All Australian 2003
Wing in TAC Team of the Year
National Draft Camp Invitee 2003
TAC Stats:
2002: 14 games, 11 goals, 18.1 PPG.
2003: 18 games, 11 goals, 27.3 PPG.
Profile:
There have been strong rumours for a couple of months that Carlton will be taking Kane Tenace with pick 2 in the National draft. Whilst I'm not sure if he is the 2nd best available talent, he is easily within the top 10 and is just the type of quick wingman we could do with.
Tenace has all the tools you would want. He is blindingly quick, particularly over the first five yards (2nd at draft camp in the 20m sprint). He can really just take the pill and leave a congested pack of players standing.
He is a superb kick, with distance, on either side of the body (he is almost dual footed). Nearly always hits targets. He has an uncanny knack of knowing where the ball will end up. I wouldn't call him a downhill skier, but at times he just knows when to run slightly forward of the play and he will almost certainly end up with the ball.
Tenace had an excellent carnival in 2002, was very impressive against SA. He went one better this year and was named All Australian. Kane was also co-captain of Vic Country.
He has the ability to just break a game open with a great goal, usually after a couple of bounces. He attacks the ball hard, isn't a receiver and will work when required. Has excellent judgment, and will gain a lot of distance with his ball carrying and long kicking. As can be seen from his stats, gathers a lot of the pill, had over 30 possessions 8 times.
The only thing I can fault him for is he tends to flash in and out of games, can have quiet patches. I'd write more but there isn't much point, he won't be around by Hawthorn's 1st pick. Top 10, probably top 5.
OldSchool
23 Oct 2003, 20:01
Originally posted by The Doctor
He is an outsider in my opinion.
Must have seen different games
OldSchool
23 Oct 2003, 20:02
Originally posted by sfish54
For our number four pick we should get either Bradley or Tenace but lately I heard that Carlton's number 1 option would be to use their number 2 pick on Tenace.
That one has been doing the rounds for ages
The Doctor
23 Oct 2003, 20:03
Originally posted by OldSchool
Must have seen different games
I am definately in the minority who think that way but it doesn't alter the way I see it, nor will it change my opinion.
OldSchool
23 Oct 2003, 20:10
Originally posted by The Doctor
I am definately in the minority who think that way but it doesn't alter the way I see it, nor will it change my opinion. I didn't think I was asking you to change your mind.
I have no problems with a differing opinion.
Originally posted by OldSchool
That one has been doing the rounds for ages
The latest news is it seems Carlton are keen on Andrew Walker with pick #2.
OldSchool
23 Oct 2003, 20:32
Originally posted by Tank
The latest news is it seems Carlton are keen on Andrew Walker with pick #2.
Another one that has been talked about since the draft camp :)
The Doctor
23 Oct 2003, 20:32
Originally posted by OldSchool
I didn't think I was asking you to change your mind.
I have no problems with a differing opinion.
didn't suggest you were, and am also happy with differing opinion. I differ with nearly everyone on this one but am convinced on it. His GF performance rubber stamped it.
I think with Tenace a lot of people get excited by his dash. Which is easily done. When he gets on his bike he can make you stand up and watch.
I hope folks are not mistaking me too much on him in that I think he's no good. Of course he is a talent and some clubs would have a great need for a player of his kind. I am rating him purely in the context of how I see our needs and compared to what other talent is available to us with such a valuable draft pick. As I've stated before I have about 9-10 players I would prefer ahead of him.
murphy2bedabest
24 Oct 2003, 18:17
Originally posted by The Doctor
. As I've stated before I have about 9-10 players I would prefer ahead of him.
name them
1.cooney the who???? i wanna know
as i pointed out first cart have show intrest in players such as clarke dunn walker as well as tenace, given who cart and melb pick up at least 2 will be there for pick 4 with others such as ray bradley and mclean. i have really gone of bradley (with the pick up of street, with morgan and last year minson wight and welsh)
-as for clarke dunn walker tenace ray and mclean pick up the best 200+ game player we can you have look at 3-5 years from now so it won' matter who it is, inside outside just make shore it's the best that might be tenace.