View Full Version : If Brad Hodge was from NSW?
Bronx Bomber
22 Nov 2003, 20:06
Lets say that Brad Hodge was from NSW would he be any closer to getting a test cap than he is now??
Unwritten_Law
22 Nov 2003, 20:42
Get over it.
If he can bat throughout the whole Pura Cup and ING Cup as he as recently, then he would surely have to be on the shortlist, with Clarke and Katich, as the batsman to replace Waugh.
Originally posted by AirportWest #17
Lets say that Brad Hodge was from NSW would he ... have been consistently getting a shield game during the mid to late 90s?
TheSheik
22 Nov 2003, 21:07
Brad Hodge is oneof those players that will always dominate at Sheffield Shield level but cannot break in for a game in a Test. SA's Jamie Siddons & Tassies Jamie Cox are two others who fall into the same category.
Bronx Bomber
22 Nov 2003, 21:13
Originally posted by Unwritten_Law
Get over it.
Im not whinging I am asking a legit question
Originally posted by TheSheik
Brad Hodge is oneof those players that will always dominate at Sheffield Shield level but cannot break in for a game in a Test. SA's Jamie Siddons & Tassies Jamie Cox are two others who fall into the same category.
Bit hard to tell, he's still young. He may yet get a chance, particularly with an ageing Australian batting lineup.
Hodge will play test cricket - but he'll have to wait another couple of years. He's definitely good enough and would bat at No 4 for any other Test side - but like Lehmann & Hayden before him...he'll have to wait his turn and keep on making runs.
Originally posted by DaveW
have been consistently getting a shield game during the mid to late 90s?
What, like Richard Chee Quee?
Originally posted by RogerC
What, like Richard Chee Quee? Chee Quee wasn't around for that long.
bunsen burner
23 Nov 2003, 10:27
Originally posted by Lidge
Hodge will play test cricket - but he'll have to wait another couple of years. He's definitely good enough and would bat at No 4 for any other Test side - but like Lehmann & Hayden before him...he'll have to wait his turn and keep on making runs. Brad Hodge is not that good. Yes. he's in form now, but go have a look at his first class record. He shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Siddons and Cox.
Let's have a look at the current line-up:
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Waugh
Lehmann
Forget Hayden and Langer - Hayden should be good for another few years, and although Langer isn't near as safe, Hodge isn't an opener. If Langer went, I think they'd be looking at Love, Hussey, or Katich even before Maher.
Ponting - safe for a long long time.
Martyn, Waugh, Lehmann - Waugh will retire next year, Martyn needs to pick up his form a bit, and Lehmann has to consistently perform well to fight off younger players.
So there's one definite spot, and two possibilites. Clarke and Katich are miles ahead of the rest of the candidates. If a third spot came available, Hodge would have to compete with Love, Maher, Hussey et all, not to mention people like Marsh coming through, and also taking into account he has to maintain his recent good form over time.
Hodge for a test spot? Possible, but the odds aren't good.
bunsen burner
23 Nov 2003, 10:29
Originally posted by Lidge
He would bat at No 4 for any other Test side Oh yeah - get your hand off it.
dr nick
23 Nov 2003, 11:05
Originally posted by Lidge
He would bat at No 4 for any other Test side
beating the likes Tendulkar, Lara, Hussain, Kallis, Jayawardene, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Stephen Fleming etc..
lol :rolleyes:
It's almost criminal that after more than a decade of first class cricket, the closest Hodge has come to full international selection is a number of games, in both forms, for Australia A.
Originally posted by pazza
It's almost criminal that after more than a decade of first class cricket, the closest Hodge has come to full international selection is a number of games, in both forms, for Australia A.
I have to disagree. Whilst Hodge has established himself as a talented batsman in his first season. He became somewhat of an underachiever for quite a few seasons.
Australia has always had a multitude of excellent batsmen over the last decade. So batsmen really had to consistently get the runs on the board to push for selection.
Here are his season-by-season stats:
Mat I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St Team
1993-94 11 21 2 991 106 52.15 1 8 6 - VIC
1994-95 10 19 2 457 116 26.88 48.56 2 1 4 - VIC
1995-96 5 9 1 174 43 21.75 - - - - VIC
1996-97 7 14 0 282 51 20.14 - 2 7 - VIC
1997-98 7 14 1 494 116* 38.00 50.20 1 2 3 - VIC
1998-99 10 18 1 706 120 41.52 2 5 8 - VIC
1999-2000 11 20 3 423 96 24.88 43.34 - 3 5 - VIC
2000-01 13 23 3 1129 134* 56.45 47.41 5 3 7 - VIC/AUS-A
2001-02 10 18 3 858 140 57.20 48.55 4 2 4 - VIC
2002-03 10 16 1 503 183 33.53 47.99 1 1 6 - VIC
2003-04 2 4 1 195 111* 65.00 52.00 1 - - - VIC
Great debut season. But he really tapered off after that. It took Hodge until 2000/1 to score his first (and so far only) 1000 run season in Australia. That's something the likes of Blewett and Lehmann have done many times.
I like Hodge; he's a talented player. But his failure to earn international selection simply highlights the strength and depth of Australian batting.
DaveW has nailed it comprehensively.
Damning evidence really. In ten completed seasons, Hodge has had three good ones, two solid ones, and five completely shithouse.
It took him until late in his 9th season to whack a score greater than 140.
And this is in an era when Victoria had arguably the strongest domestic attack, which other states' batsmen had to face, and he obviously didn't.
In footballing terms, if Hayden was Buckley, Ponting was Hird and Gilchrist was Voss.... Brad Hodge would be Justin Peckett.
Dog Town
23 Nov 2003, 15:50
Currently averaging 130 in pura cup matches aswell80 in the ING cup.....
Bronx Bomber
23 Nov 2003, 15:54
Australian selectors arent going to pick him on what he has done in the past they will pick him on what he is currently doing! "HORSES FOR COURSES"
bunsen burner
23 Nov 2003, 16:09
Originally posted by AirportWest #17
Australian selectors arent going to pick him on what he has done in the past they will pick him on what he is currently doing!
Pick him for what? There's no spots in the one day side - they're going to have trouble fitting Lehmann back in.
Test side? Only an idiot would think that the selectors are thinking about anyone else outside Clarke and Katich.
"HORSES FOR COURSES" Hodge for Australia A then.
The Spornstar
24 Nov 2003, 06:12
Originally posted by Darky
And this is in an era when Victoria had arguably the strongest domestic attack, which other states' batsmen had to face, and he obviously didn't.
However you could also say that Melbourne pitches and conditions have always been bowler friendly making it harder for Hodge to show his capabilities, at least on the stats sheet.
Cupido13
24 Nov 2003, 14:10
Originally posted by The Spornstar
However you could also say that Melbourne pitches and conditions have always been bowler friendly making it harder for Hodge to show his capabilities, at least on the stats sheet.
Bowler friendly, cut it out. The SCG, yeah, GABBA, maybe, WACA, maybe, Adelaide and MCG, right up there with the best batting tracks in the world. The MCG turns a bit on the 4th and 5th and besides that it is a paradise. Hodge is a good player, but should not feel hard done by at not being in the Australian side cos he simply hasn't earnt it. In support however, Michael Clarke's 1st class are no better than Hodge's, he is just considered a better long term prospect with probably more room for improvement than Hodge, but lets face it, overall, neither of these guys have all that impressive statistics.
Cupido13
24 Nov 2003, 14:12
MJ Clarke 32 58 3 2058 134 37.41 7 9 27 - NSW/AUS-A
BJ Hodge 100 183 18 6433 183 38.98 17 29 55 - VIC/AUS-ACAD/AUS-A/DURHAM
Both of them are good stats, neither of them are great however.
Cupido13
24 Nov 2003, 14:16
Originally posted by Cupido13
MJ Clarke 32 58 3 2058 134 37.41 7 9 27 - NSW/AUS-A
BJ Hodge 100 183 18 6433 183 38.98 17 29 55 - VIC/AUS-ACAD/AUS-A/DURHAM
Both of them are good stats, neither of them are great however.
You also must note that those Hodge stats have been inflated by a few years feasting on poor English County attacks.
And Clarke is several years younger...
bunsen burner
24 Nov 2003, 18:51
And Clarke aquits himself very well in the one day team - esp for someone so young.
Dog Town
24 Nov 2003, 20:32
Originally posted by Cupido13
Bowler friendly, cut it out. The SCG, yeah, GABBA, maybe, WACA, maybe, Adelaide and MCG, right up there with the best batting tracks in the world. . Your kidding arn't you?Prior to the last couple of years the MCG was on par with the gabba as the second most bowler friendly deck in Australia.It was only after an out cry about the low scores at the mcg that they closed in the boundaries and prepared more batsmen friendly decks.The SCG and Adelaide are well and truly the best batting decks in the country with Perth and Brisbane being the most helpful to the bowlers.
If Hodge was from NSW...
he wouldn't be a Victorian and so none of you guys would over-rate him like you currently do.
End of story.
Cupido13
25 Nov 2003, 11:53
Originally posted by DaveW
Here are his season-by-season stats:
Mat I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St Team
1993-94 11 21 2 991 106 52.15 1 8 6 - VIC
1994-95 10 19 2 457 116 26.88 48.56 2 1 4 - VIC
1995-96 5 9 1 174 43 21.75 - - - - VIC
1996-97 7 14 0 282 51 20.14 - 2 7 - VIC
1997-98 7 14 1 494 116* 38.00 50.20 1 2 3 - VIC
1998-99 10 18 1 706 120 41.52 2 5 8 - VIC
1999-2000 11 20 3 423 96 24.88 43.34 - 3 5 - VIC
2000-01 13 23 3 1129 134* 56.45 47.41 5 3 7 - VIC/AUS-A
2001-02 10 18 3 858 140 57.20 48.55 4 2 4 - VIC
2002-03 10 16 1 503 183 33.53 47.99 1 1 6 - VIC
2003-04 2 4 1 195 111* 65.00 52.00 1 - - - VIC
Stats don't lie. You name the Australian side that Brad Hodge should be playing in and I am sure we will all be able to name 3 players who woudl get picked in that side before Hodge. There are plenty of players who make a few tons in a row, doing it over a few years is what gets you picked (with the exception of Katich, who fluked it this time round, right place, right bowling action, right time). For example, Love, Hayden, Lehmann, then look at Cox, Siddons, Law, all dominate players who would get picked in front of Hodge any day of the week yet only played 1 Test between them, despite making over 50,000 first class runs.
The Spornstar
25 Nov 2003, 15:46
Originally posted by Cupido13
Bowler friendly, cut it out. The SCG, yeah, GABBA, maybe, WACA, maybe, Adelaide and MCG, right up there with the best batting tracks in the world. The MCG turns a bit on the 4th and 5th and besides that it is a paradise. Hodge is a good player, but should not feel hard done by at not being in the Australian side cos he simply hasn't earnt it. In support however, Michael Clarke's 1st class are no better than Hodge's, he is just considered a better long term prospect with probably more room for improvement than Hodge, but lets face it, overall, neither of these guys have all that impressive statistics.
Ha! Mate you have no idea if you think that the MCG has been a batting paradise, as said by Dog Town only recently has it been any help to a batsman at all, and it's still not that great. And it was at its worst during the years that we are discussing here with regards to Hodge. I agree with Dog Town - SCG and Adelaide easily the best for batsmen - the G is improving but was (and still is) no where near the best for batsmen.
The Spornstar
26 Nov 2003, 16:17
Well his form is getting hard to ignore.
348 runs @ 87 in the Pura Cup, and now 143 not out as we speak, making his first class average for the summer 123. This doesn't include his great form in England (yeah I know, not the strongest comp).
Originally posted by The Spornstar
Well his form is getting hard to ignore.
348 runs @ 87 in the Pura Cup, and now 143 not out as we speak, making his first class average for the summer 123. This doesn't include his great form in England (yeah I know, not the strongest comp).
His form is now almost as good as Katich's :D
The Spornstar
26 Nov 2003, 16:37
Originally posted by llosis
His form is now almost as good as Katich's :D
Katich has averaged 126 in first class games this summer. If Hodge makes just a few more runs tomorrow he will overtake him. So yes, they are very close. Don't forget that now that Waugh has retired another spot may open, depending on whether Lehmann can recover well from his injury.
Jars458
26 Nov 2003, 16:42
Hodge is in good form and good on him for that
He would be behind Katich Love and Clarke still though.
Tough on him I know but, Boof and Law put up with much worse.
Fall Out Boy
26 Nov 2003, 16:55
Some 2003-04 numbers
First Class
468 runs @ 117, with 3 centuries
ING Cup
258 runs @ 129, with 2 centuries
Overall, 5 centuries and 726 runs in just over a month. Fair effort that.
Tour Matches
143 Runs @ 143, with 1 century.
Originally posted by Nandoz
Tour Matches
143 Runs @ 143, with 1 century.
He hasn't got out yet so he doesn't have an average in this game yet.
I think you'll find Phat has included the tour match into the FC stats.
Fall Out Boy
26 Nov 2003, 18:35
Originally posted by llosis
I think you'll find Phat has included the tour match into the FC stats.
Indeed.
:p Righteo...thanks for informing.
Cheers
Cupido13
27 Nov 2003, 06:20
Bottom line is, this is the first absolutely boomer year he has had. The guys mentioned throughout this thread who have been unlucky to be out of the side, Lehmann, Hayden, Cox, Love, Siddons, Law have been doing it for years and years. It is a matter of right place at the right time and Hodge may be timing his run perfectly as he is booming around about the time of Steve Waugh's retirement. However, you can not say he is hard done by so far and now is probably the first time you could justify his selection in the Test or ODI sides.
Portmagpies
27 Nov 2003, 07:51
Two good matches in a ten year career and the Vic's are clamouring for his inclusion in the test side. Ridiculous.
If Langer does get dropped this summer, however unlikely, could Blewett be a smokey to open with Hayden?
Originally posted by Portmagpies
Two good matches in a ten year career and the Vic's are clamouring for his inclusion in the test side. Ridiculous.
If Langer does get dropped this summer, however unlikely, could Blewett be a smokey to open with Hayden?
Blewett could be a smokey, yes. But I think the selectors could go for some younger blood personally. Having said that I don't think JL will get the chop this summer.
If Brad Hodge was from NSW...
He would not have had the chance to score a double century against a feeble Indian attack this week.
Bronx Bomber
27 Nov 2003, 12:17
Feeble as it may be a 200 against a test nation is still a 200.........and correct me if I am wrong the Indian attack will be more or less the same in the test matches? Let's see if whoever replaces Boof will make a 200................I do't think so
P.S. 240 AND STILL GOING :p
Well done Hodgey. 252* and still going.
Test series is officially over without a a ball being bowled. He has single handedly broken their spines and spirits with this display.
(which is the job of state sides when playing the tourists in warm up games)
BJ Hodge c Dravid b Sehwag 264 (380b 39x4 1x6)
Out to a part-timer!
As the old saying goes....shlt gets wickets.
Anyone who doesn't think this effort is worthy of further consideration by Australian selectors really needs their head read. Even Tendulkar would be impressed with his efforts.
Hodge deserves consideration, particularly when Waugh's retirement will open up a spot for the Indian tour, but I suspect he's still back in the pecking order a bit.
Martin Love scored a double century against the touring New Zealanders in the 1997/98 season and had to wait a few years before playing a Test.
Fall Out Boy
27 Nov 2003, 16:12
Originally posted by Portmagpies
Two good matches in a ten year career
That would explain the 26 first class centuries, and the 302* he made a few years ago.
Fall Out Boy
27 Nov 2003, 16:14
Originally posted by DaveW
Hodge deserves consideration, particularly when Waugh's retirement will open up a spot for the Indian tour, but I suspect he's still back in the pecking order a bit.
Summed it up beautifully.
I don't expect him to play a test, but i would at least like some confirmation that the selectors have actually considered him.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Summed it up beautifully.
I don't expect him to play a test, but i would at least like some confirmation that the selectors have actually considered him. We agree on something. I'm shocked. :D
You'd expect that confirmation will come for the Australia A game between the 2nd and 3rd Tests.
Love, Clarke and Hodge are all shoo-ins for the middle order spots.
Cupido13
28 Nov 2003, 08:11
Originally posted by AirportWest #17
"HORSES FOR COURSES"
Horses for courses refers to things like playing 4 quicks at the WACA, or 2 spinners at the SCG or 5 bowlers on belters. Not, dropping perfectly good, in form batsman for someone who is in good form as well.
Cupido13
28 Nov 2003, 08:16
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
That would explain the 26 first class centuries, and the 302* he made a few years ago.
I think you mean a couple of months ago. It was for Leicestershire in the recently completed County season. Interesting to see how many of those hundreds were in Pura Cup and how many were in England. I would guess he has made about 10 - 15 Pura Cup tons, which is only a little over 1 a year over a 9 year career, not the most convincing stats, that was probably not a good one to quote. Forget history, just go with the current facts. Hodge, alongside Matt Hayden, are the current most in form batsmen in Australia, he has not been hard done by, but if he keeps up this type of form and doesn't go to Sri Lanka, or at worst play in the next home Test series in 2004/2005, then we can say he is hard done by.
Originally posted by Cupido13
Hodge, alongside Matt Hayden, are the current most in form batsmen in Australia, he has not been hard done by, but if he keeps up this type of form and doesn't go to Sri Lanka, or at worst play in the next home Test series in 2004/2005, then we can say he is hard done by.
I would say Katich is in fairly good form at the minute as well and could be added to those two.
Cupido13
28 Nov 2003, 11:49
Originally posted by llosis
I would say Katich is in fairly good form at the minute as well and could be added to those two.
Yeah, pretty ignorant of me actually, he has made about 150 runs more than anyone else in Oz so far this season. They are both smashing it, I would say both in better form than Hayden, the recent ODI tournament is hard to go by though as the bowling was a bit average, and one day cricket can be pretty deceptive.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
That would explain the 26 first class centuries, and the 302* he made a few years ago.
How many centuries have his immediate rivals made in that time, relative to matches played? More than 26, I would guess, and bigger innings too.
Well you'd guess wrong, Darky.
I take it his immediate rivals are Katich, Love, Clarke and maybe Hussey. If you have any other candidates let me know, but on statistics alone, there's not much to choose between the first four.
Love has 28 centuries from 151 matches - average 51.03.
Hodge has 26 centuries from 122 matches - average 44.29.
Katich has 23 centuries from 104 matches - average 50.72.
Clarke has 7 centuries from 33 matches - average 37.07.
Hussey has 8 centuries from 142 matches - average 44.83.
Hodge holds his own in that company. Not that I'm saying Hodge is likely to get a test spot - just that you shouldn't go pointing at his track record, because it's pretty sound.
Originally posted by DaveW
If Brad Hodge was from NSW...
He would not have had the chance to score a double century against a feeble Indian attack this week.
That's a pretty pointless thing to say, Dave. When our test team makes big scores against the same attack next week, we'll all be wetting our pants. Just as we did when they piled on the runs against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. I take it you were one of those unimpressed by Hayden's 380?
The best thing about Hodge's massive score this week is that it was entirely expected. He was the most likely candidate of the Victorians to make a big score, and he didn't let us down.
Yeah it was pointless but I knew I'd get at least one bite from a Victorian. :)
EagleBlue
28 Nov 2003, 22:01
Originally posted by Portmagpies
If Langer does get dropped this summer, however unlikely, could Blewett be a smokey to open with Hayden?
No chance, Blewett is washed up as an international cricketer. See he got bowled AGAIN today. Would love to see his dismissal mode of bowled % I would say it would be amazingly high for a top-order batsman.
Would say Elliott would be next in line, although I would go for Hussey
Nibble, Dave, you got a nibble. :)
Brad Hodge is a long way down a very very long list...
Originally posted by RogerC
Hussey has 8 centuries from 142 matches - average 44.83.
Rog, are you sure that figure is correct? I think Hussey has a lot more centuries than that?
Cupido13
1 Dec 2003, 14:45
Originally posted by llosis
Rog, are you sure that figure is correct? I think Hussey has a lot more centuries than that?
I am going to look that up now, I reckon he would have closer to 30 than 8.
Cupido13
1 Dec 2003, 14:50
Michael Hussey
FIRST-CLASS
(1994/95 - 2003/04; last updated 30/11/2003)
M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 140 249 18 12084 331* 52.31 31 52 142 0
That is 31 100's in 142 games at 52. I don't know where you made those other figures up from. Which makes me doubt all your figures.
Cupido13
1 Dec 2003, 14:51
Actually, you have his One Day stats.
Originally posted by RogerC
Well you'd guess wrong, Darky.
I take it his immediate rivals are Katich, Love, Clarke and maybe Hussey. If you have any other candidates let me know, but on statistics alone, there's not much to choose between the first four.
Love has 28 centuries from 151 matches - average 51.03.
Hodge has 26 centuries from 122 matches - average 44.29.
Katich has 23 centuries from 104 matches - average 50.72.
Clarke has 7 centuries from 33 matches - average 37.07.
Hussey has 8 centuries from 142 matches - average 44.83.
Hodge holds his own in that company. Not that I'm saying Hodge is likely to get a test spot - just that you shouldn't go pointing at his track record, because it's pretty sound.
Pretty sound? Three of the four rivals you mentioned have better averages, and all except Martin Love (best record by far) are younger.
It's still a concern that it took Hodge 8 or 9 years to get past 140 in a first class match. He is in a run of sensational form at the minute, but as I pointed out earlier for half the seasons in his career he has been complete garbage.
Another point : I also consider guys like Lehmann, Martyn and Bevan his immediate rivals (across the game's two formats). Hodge not only has to be better than the Shield batsmen, but (more importantly) better than the blokes he is keen on replacing.
If Katich has a good series against India, it'll be hard to pry him out, and after Steve Waugh's retirement it'll be very hard to pick between Lehmann, Love and (if his spot is on offer) Katich. Hodge would be considerably behind those three.
Didn't David Mensch look like he would win Geelong's B&F for about half a season? ;)
Apologies for the mess I made of Hussey's stats, Cupido and Iosis. That was very dumb of me - I've gotta stop looking these things up in the middle of the night. His look like the best of the lot.
Darky, my reply was a direct response to the claim you made about number of centuries per matches played. I threw the averages in in the interests of fairness, but they have nothing to do with your original contention.
You're making a completely different claim now - one which, incidentally, I agree with. My candidates for test spots, in order of precedence, go: Clarke, Katich, Love, Hodge/Hussey. Stats don't always tell me what I need to know.
(To illustrate that, on first class figures alone Bevan would have a test spot ahead of Martyn - Martyn would also be behind Love and Katich. But his test figures are exceptional.)
Only 18 months separates the ages of Love, Hodge, Hussey and Katich, so I doubt age is much of a factor anyway.
I was just surprised to find that Hodge's stats weren't too far away from those other candidates for the vacant spots. And if his early form was so ordinary, that only makes his recent form that much more spectacular, given that it's raised his figures to something near every other candidate's.
In fact, just on Hodge: he had a habit for a few years of excelling at District level, and then failing at First Class level. My reservations with him are mainly to do with his ability to step up. A player like Symonds or Bracken (at least in the one-day game) seems to find something extra at international level. I sense the same with Noffke and Clarke. Cameron White will, I feel, need time to adjust to playing at Test level, but the rewards will come. I just don't think Hodge would cut it.
Originally posted by RogerC
I was just surprised to find that Hodge's stats weren't too far away from those other candidates for the vacant spots. And if his early form was so ordinary, that only makes his recent form that much more spectacular, given that it's raised his figures to something near every other candidate's.
This really surprised me too. Until a year or two ago, his F/C average had sat at around 38 for quite a long time... his two years of good form, plus his 302* and 264 recently have helped it get up to 44.
Does 1-2 seasons of good form mean consistency? Aks Darren Lehmann, or as you mention, even Michael Bevan whose F/C record in this country is just about unparalelled in the current day.
Originally posted by RogerC
In fact, just on Hodge: he had a habit for a few years of excelling at District level, and then failing at First Class level. My reservations with him are mainly to do with his ability to step up. A player like Symonds or Bracken (at least in the one-day game) seems to find something extra at international level. I sense the same with Noffke and Clarke. Cameron White will, I feel, need time to adjust to playing at Test level, but the rewards will come. I just don't think Hodge would cut it.
I think someone like Martin Love would struggle too... in the same way as Andy Bichel does. Won't be disgraced by any stretch, but won't scare the opposition (unless you're the Bangers or Zimbo's who pack their dacks at an under 12's team), and overall won't make a genuine impact. Back to Shield level, and these blokes are guns. Happens with the VFL to AFL step-up all the time, probably the same sort of thing in cricket.
Basically, my reluctance to accept Hodge as a genuine candidate is probably down to his inconsitency over a long period. Unfulfilled potential blah blah blah...
Mark Waugh looked great but never quite joined the elite at Test level, Brad Hodge is that way at Shield level, and IMHO that makes him short of the mark when it comes to international selection, given that the incumbents & hopefuls around him have been better for longer.
Originally posted by AirportWest #17
Lets say that Brad Hodge was from NSW would he be any closer to getting a test cap than he is now??
No!!! He'd be lucky to get a spot in the NSW team - maybe at the expense of Slater. :D
Cupido13
2 Dec 2003, 06:32
Originally posted by RogerC
I was just surprised to find that Hodge's stats weren't too far away from those other candidates for the vacant spots. And if his early form was so ordinary, that only makes his recent form that much more spectacular, given that it's raised his figures to something near every other candidate's.
These figures have been inflated by some English County cricket as well, I think the best way to look at it would be to take out the County figures. If you look at Symond's record his English stuff makes his overall First Class record look impressive when in reality it is pretty mediocre (not that I am saying Symonds is a good enough player, just siting him as an example). Then again, I guess that all of the above mentioned have played in England at some stage, excpet maybe Katich, he may have even. I know that Hodge, Love and Hussey have. But, I think that Hussey's record in Pura Cup, also Love's would far outshine Hodge's record. By the way, I am Victorian, so don't say I am biased.
corporal
2 Dec 2003, 06:53
Originally posted by Cupido13
These figures have been inflated by some English County
, I think that Hussey's record in Pura Cup, also Love's would far outshine Hodge's record.
If you want to talk about inflated county figures, when was the last time Hussey scored a century on Australian soil?
Hussey's Pura record has been dismal for the last three years, where for northants he has been absolutely slaughtering attacks.
Love has also benefited from county.
Also consider Phil Jacque's of NSW has just come off a 1500+ run season in England when last year he couldn't get a game in Australia.
I don't think past records should be so important. If horse's for course's applies then current form should be the main factor
Cupido13
2 Dec 2003, 14:54
Originally posted by corporal
If horse's for course's applies then current form should be the main factor
Can people please stop referring to horses for courses as a reference to current form, it is a reference to playinf 2 spinner at the SCG, or taking a good player of spin to India then dropping him when you get home. Not to just randomally bringing in players due to a boom in their form.
corporal
2 Dec 2003, 15:21
Originally posted by Cupido13
Can people please stop referring to horses for courses as a reference to current form, it is a reference to playinf 2 spinner at the SCG, or taking a good player of spin to India then dropping him when you get home. Not to just randomally bringing in players due to a boom in their form.
Fair enough, however to consider Hussey for a test position would be a lot more random then picking hodge because of a form boom.
My point was that currently Hodge's record in Australia is a lot better then Hussey's.
I like Hussey however how can be a contender for a Test position when he has averaged little over 30 in Australia over the last couple of years. Incidently his record in one dayers has been great and I would like to see him in the one day side.
Originally posted by corporal
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Also consider Phil Jacque's of NSW has just come off a 1500+ run season in England when last year he couldn't get a game in Australia.
Can be misleading though... he can be the 10th best batsman in the country and be his state's 7th best (just as an example)...
He might be behind Slater, Katich, M.Waugh. S.Waugh, Bevan and Clarke (fair top 6, that), but looking at the standard above him, it certainly doesn't mean he's rubbish. Might very well be a certain starter for most of the other states.
Probably the same as when Gavin Robertson played for Australia... Australia had two spinners and they both played for NSW... NSW played the regulation one spinner, and Australia needed two on a subcontinental tour. hence the selection irregularity....
I do agree though that (generally) county figures inflate what a bloke is really worth. I think 44 to 45 is probably the minimum Shield average to really push for a spot, blokes who average mid 30s at home and nudge it up with county scores are polishing a **** IMHO.
The dearth of openers at the minute might lower the requirements though, as the true big scorers are all getting on.
Originally posted by corporal
I like Hussey however how can be a contender for a Test position when he has averaged little over 30 in Australia over the last couple of years.
Go over 3 to 4 years and Hodge's record has been pretty poor too....
Hi all,
I thought it would be interesting to see what the contenders average in Sheffield Shield/Pura Cup so I have collated the data (from baggygreen.com.au) and present it below. I have also listed other batsmen for comparison. I'm not exactly sure how up to date these figures are.
I could not format the list to display properly in the message so I have uploaded it and you can view it by following the link below:
Sheffield Shield/Pura Cup Averages (http://www.geocities.com/agkan24/PuraCupAvg.htm)
Cheers,
Tuhob