View Full Version : Our rookie draft selections
andrew_embley
23 Nov 2003, 01:58
Does anyone know how many rookies (keeping in mind Edwards is still on that list) we can take this year?
Also who do Eagles fans think we should draft (in order and availability)?
I would like to see us take Surjan with our first selection. I don't think he'd be around at our second pick as Freo would probably snap him up with their first pick. Johnson is another good propect however the thing with Johnson is that he can't help us straight away next year, unless someone seriously goes down. If he was taken in the National Draft then he maybe could have done something next year; helping to aid our tall deficincies. If he was taken on our rookie list this year and wasn't elvated at any stage next year it will take a year for him to come on. By that time some of our other talls may have developed. Hence his appeal to us may drop slightly in terms of the other talent available. However if he was available with our second selction I wouldn't mind us taking him. Also would like us to take Michael Embley with a later pick. Being very raw and slight, he needs the time to develop and what better way to do so than on the rookie list where even if he doesn't come on, at least it won't affect us too much.
Thoughts?
Streaker
23 Nov 2003, 02:07
We are able to have 44 players and we currently have 37 senior players 2 veterans and 1 rookie on our list therefore we still have 4 rookie positions available.
We need to rookie list at least 2 talls
Talls: Michael Johnson, Michael Embley, William Gayfer or Chris Stewart
Medium: Jacob Surjan, Nick Sas, Lukas Teague, Callum Burges or Justin Wilson
I reckon we will probably only draft three more rookie listed players.
Surjan, Embley and Burges would be a good bunch.
no1bankteller
23 Nov 2003, 09:17
Who can clarify if we can rookie Burgess or not....
theorangeapple
23 Nov 2003, 10:04
Who can clarify if we can rookie Burgess or not....
i am certain that he cant because he is bottom age - 17- and if he was in melbourne he would play another year in the TAC.
he may be a chance for the pre-season draft ...along with gayfer, surjan and johnson.
no1bankteller
23 Nov 2003, 10:28
Originally posted by theorangeapple
i am certain that he cant because he is bottom age - 17- and if he was in melbourne he would play another year in the TAC.
he may be a chance for the pre-season draft ...along with gayfer, surjan and johnson.
Ok now I am confused Orange People? In the first paragraph you say that he can not be rookied but in the second you say that he can be pre-season drafted?
Please explain?
If they are young enough to play in the u18s again next year then they can't be rookie listed. At least, that is my understanding of it. Burges is young enough to play u18s next year so he can't be rookie listed.
no1bankteller
23 Nov 2003, 11:38
What about being pre-season drafted?
Originally posted by no1bankteller
What about being pre-season drafted?
Its possible but we would need a spare spot on our list. The only way I could see this happening is if the coaching staff decide to place Drew Banfield on the veterans list outside the 38 main squad. Don't think it would happen.
no1bankteller
23 Nov 2003, 11:44
Originally posted by Sera
Its possible but we would need a spare spot on our list. The only way I could see this happening is if the coaching staff decide to place Drew Banfield on the veterans list outside the 38 main squad. Don't think it would happen.
Are we able to delist Kane "Put some Pork on your Fork" Munro, or Trent "One and one is ???" Carroll?
Originally posted by no1bankteller
Are we able to delist Kane "Put some Pork on your Fork" Munro, or Trent "One and one is ???" Carroll?
Burges was a smoke screen. Just accept it.
no1bankteller
23 Nov 2003, 12:12
Originally posted by Sera
Burges was a smoke screen. Just accept it.
ITs ok I am fine with it...I AM...have had therapy over it and I am ok now...just keep on hearing thosue damn voices..BURGESSSSS.....
Streaker
7 Dec 2003, 23:07
OK! After my great effort in the real draft (0 from 3) I have decided to have a crack at the rookie draft.
Pick 9 - Jacob Surjan
Pick 25 - Michael Johnson
Pick 41 - Brett Jones
Pick 57 - Daniel Hunt/Michael Embley
The Dockers have a pick in the PSD so it won't suprise me to see them take Surjan or Duffield before we get a dip. Ben Clifton would have to be an outside chance to get a gig but most of them will probably be from the players training with us.
Ken Ackers
8 Dec 2003, 12:36
Hi All
Long time listner, first time caller...
Damn Freo and their PSD pick. I thought for once we would have first shot at the local lads.
Michael Johnson - Would be good backup in defense - is he too old for the rookie draft?
Michael Embley - I think we all have dreams of a taller A Embley running around the park. May not be alot of space for him in the squad in 3-4 years when/if he is ready to play seeing as we already host the land of giants (with lots of potential and not much else) at the eagles
William Gayfer - would expect him to be gone in one of the eight picks before we get on the board
Chris Stewart - dont really know much of him
Jacob Surjan - pretty please with a cherry on top
Nick Sas - again, dont really know him, if he is anything as talented as the Turkish soccer player Hasan Sas, would have him in a flash
Lukas Teague - Could be a handy addition to the sqaud
Callum Burges - Too young
Justin Wilson - His brothers Owen and Luke are great actors
I love draft time!!!
Streaker
8 Dec 2003, 12:42
Welcome to BigFooty Knackers.
Juddamania
8 Dec 2003, 15:23
Originally posted by Ken Ackers
Justin Wilson - His brothers Owen and Luke are great actors
Justin Wilson's a dodgy-now dropped, Jaguar driver in Formula 1 who used to get his ass kicked by Aussie driver Mark Webber.
Originally posted by West Coast Stre
OK! After my great effort in the real draft (0 from 3) I have decided to have a crack at the rookie draft.
Pick 9 - Jacob Surjan
Pick 25 - Michael Johnson
Pick 41 - Brett Jones
Pick 57 - Daniel Hunt/Michael Embley
I reckon there is a good chance that they will take Hunt and they certainly would before Johnson, Embley and possibly Jones.
Originally posted by Sera
The Dockers have a pick in the PSD so it won't suprise me to see them take Surjan or Duffield before we get a dip. Ben Clifton would have to be an outside chance to get a gig but most of them will probably be from the players training with us.
If the Dockers planned to take Surjan, I'd be baffled as to why they didn't just take him in the national draft. At least that way he would be on their list and training already. So either they have a plan to take on a delisted player or they intend to play a player short in 2004.
Originally posted by Mr Q
If the Dockers planned to take Surjan, I'd be baffled as to why they didn't just take him in the national draft. At least that way he would be on their list and training already. So either they have a plan to take on a delisted player or they intend to play a player short in 2004.
Not necessarily, although I am inclined to agree that they will probably take a delisted player in the PSD if they took anyone at all. However, they could be thinking a young player like Surjan, Duffield, Gayfer etc could be too good a player to let them slip through their grasp. There were a few decent young players that failed to get drafted.
I also agree with Yakuza that Hunt would be pretty high on our list of priorities. He was only delisted because of injuries and Sydney have said they would rookie list him if available so we might even take him in the first round if he is there. I would say with the drafting of Waters and Butler that our midfield is bursting at the seams and that smallish midfielders like Surjan or Teague wouldn't register as a high recruiting priority...
Rubs his hands with glee at the prospect of Daniel Hunt returning to the West, with either Fremantle or West Coast......but more importantly the blood stained angels :D
Originally posted by dasler
Rubs his hands with glee at the prospect of Daniel Hunt returning to the West, with either Fremantle or West Coast......but more importantly the blood stained angels :D
Is he actually any good though? He has been injured alot the last few years. I hear he is an athlete rather than a footballer...
southjoy
10 Dec 2003, 15:50
Originally posted by dasler
Rubs his hands with glee at the prospect of Daniel Hunt returning to the West, with either Fremantle or West Coast......but more importantly the blood stained angels :D
Love it Dasler.
Sera this lad is a good footballer who travelled a fair bit in his junior days with his dad being a teacher and moving around to different locations. We even let him play up at West Perth for a while.
If ,and a big if, he can get over the run of injuries ( another case of too young a player being drafted) then he is now ripe to play the football his potential has always displayed.
I think WCE will look at him and noone has mentioned Duffield in this thread, not that i think WCE will pick him up early. If he is still there later then I think that they might go for him. Young Embley is a mile of it at the moment!
Originally posted by southjoy
Love it Dasler.
We even let him play up at West Perth for a while...
Not called West Perth anymore, called Joondalup :(
ImperialPurple
10 Dec 2003, 16:39
Originally posted by Sera
Not called West Perth anymore, called Joondalup :(
Is that official?? When? That sucks.
no1bankteller
10 Dec 2003, 16:58
Originally posted by ImperialPurple
Is that official?? When? That sucks.
I agree.... I have always supported the mighty West Perth Falcons... who are Joondalup anyway?
I am starting to worry about this consistant level of agreement I have with you Imperial...
Its doing my head in....
southjoy
10 Dec 2003, 17:00
Originally posted by Sera
Not called West Perth anymore, called Joondalup :(
Look I'm not a West perth supporter so what I say is not emotionally tied ( which is not a bad thing in football). But surely if you relocate then why not be called the Joondalup Falcons.
I'm sure it was worst when they changed from the Cardinals to the Falcons and Fitzroy Lions to Brisbane Bears to the mor acceptable Brisbane( where they are) Lions.
Sera is this official?
ImperialPurple
10 Dec 2003, 17:07
Originally posted by southjoy
Look I'm not a West perth supporter so what I say is not emotionally tied ( which is not a bad thing in football). But surely if you relocate then why not be called the Joondalup Falcons.
I'm sure it was worst when they changed from the Cardinals to the Falcons and Fitzroy Lions to Brisbane Bears to the mor acceptable Brisbane( where they are) Lions.
Sera is this official?
I'm not a West Perth supporter either (so you're safe on that count bankteller), but I reckon just because they are now playing out of a different area, they shouldn't change their name.
They are West Perth and always have been. Why change?
(OK, I'll admit to having a very soft spot for the cardies... ever since Brian Adamson told me that I kicked and marked better than the boys I was playing kick to kick with at the time. It was about 1980 (the year the Mighty Bulldogs won the flag) and I was about 11. It is possible to feel "quite strongly" for your second team!!)
Originally posted by southjoy
Sera is this official?
Yep, it's official. Last time they tried it was over-turned but I can't see that happening again this time... :(
Originally posted by Sera
Yep, it's official. Last time they tried it was over-turned but I can't see that happening again this time... :(
I think you'll find that they are still the West Perth FC trading as the Joondalup Falcons.
Voice of Reason
10 Dec 2003, 23:28
Originally posted by YAKUZA
I think you'll find that they are still the West Perth FC trading as the Joondalup Falcons.
As a West Perth fan, I can assure you that the singing next year will revolve around the shouting of "West Perth!", rather than "Joon-da-lup cha-cha-cha" or some gay variant. Not happy with the way the board sneaked that one through. Joondalup Council would need to come up with a lot of money in sponsorship (fat chance of that in their current situation) to convince us apprentice diehards. (And hello to Waltzing Woof Biscuit, if you're still listening).
Originally posted by YAKUZA
I think you'll find that they are still the West Perth FC trading as the Joondalup Falcons.
They can put any spin on it they want but it won't work. Its like saying we are changing from the West Coast Eagles to the Perth Eagles but its OK because we are still Indian Pacific. It doesn't matter what the company name is, it matters what the football club is called... the team name the supporters barrack for...
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
Joondalup Council would need to come up with a lot of money in sponsorship...
Joondalup Council and their Liberal cronies were just sacked en masse. I wouldn't be counting on anything just atm...
Streaker
10 Dec 2003, 23:59
We must be seriously considering rookie listing a player from over east. West Coast communications manager Gary Stocks claimed that the Eagles would not rule out taking a player outside the club's training grounds or even W.A.
Players who did not get drafted:
Jacob Surjan
Will Gayfer
Aaron Davey
Ben Clifton
Jake Furfaro
Adam Hartlett
Joel Campbell
Dylan Pfitzner
Brett Jones
Chris Stewart
Paul Duffield
Brett Robinson
Ben Cosgriff
Michael Johnson
Dylan Harper
Craig Jovanovic
Jarrod Silvester
Andrew Ericksen
Luke Jackson
Robert Douglas
Brent Hartigan
Phillip Georgios
Jeremy Everett
Luke Buckland
Nathan Foley
Jarrod Kayler-Thomson
Pat Travers
Shaun Daly
Matthew Sharkey
Rowan Williams
Nick Potter
Rowan Bonson
Ronald Smith
Darren Rochford
Lachlan Smith
Brett Robinson
Murray Boyd
Cameron Gauci
Clint Dubieniecki
Stephen Kenna
I'm pretty sure Kenna was recruited by Carlton and Eriksen by Sydney. Bonson isn't eligible...
Streaker
11 Dec 2003, 00:10
Still leaves us with plenty of options.
Would be great if we got both Surjan and Duffield but I can't see it happening.
Streaker
11 Dec 2003, 00:37
Duffield would be the better option if we were looking at a bit of game time for next year whereas Surjan is a longer term prospect. With Matera getting older Surjan might be a good replacement down the track. I like the idea of drafting someone like Furfaro, Gayfer or Cosgriff simply because I believe they could have an impact next year, given the right environment. I would also like to see us take some taller players such as Hunt, Clifton, Pfitzner or Johnson just on the off chance they develop into a decent player.
Jacob Surjan
Details:
Club: South Coogee/South Fremantle
DOB: 15 Aug 85 Hgt: 179cm Wgt: 75kg
Position: Onballer/Half Forward Flank
Natural foot: Left
Honours:
Westen Australia 2003
National Draft Camp Invitee 2003
Profile:
Fairly small onballer who loves to go forward and kick the impossible goal. Surjan has been touted as a top 10 pick by some people, I'm not sure if he worth that much but he should definitely be picked up.
Had a pretty good carnival for WA, in particular the first game against Vic Country at the G. Both of his goals were fantastic snaps, really knows how to find the big sticks. He always looks dangerous with the ball and is so elusive he would be hard to close down.
Jacob hits the ball at pace and also has a massive leap on him for someone not that tall. Took one of the marks of the carnival against SA. He is very good at reading the play in close, just one of those kids who knows where the footy will end up.
Some great results at draft camp, number 1 for agility and in the top 10 for the sprint and vertical leap. Like Farren Ray, he probably needs a little bit of time in the gym and to work on his defensive game, but he looks a pretty good prospect.
Paul Duffield
Details:
Club: West Authur/South Fremantle
DOB: 5 Feb 85 Hgt: 185cm Wgt: 80kg
Position: Flanker
Natural foot: Right
Honours:
Western Australia 2003
Half Back Flank in WAFL Colts Team of the Year
National Draft Camp Invitee 2003
Profile:
Duffield is a flanker who played at either end of the ground for WA in the carnival. He was easy to spot in his lairy white boots.
Paul was a solid performer, showing flashes of class at times. He had a very good ability to find space where there was none, and he was always very balanced when disposing of the footy. His disposal by foot was very good.
Kicked a nice goal from the pocket against Vic Country.
Voice of Reason
11 Dec 2003, 10:48
I don't believe that in most cases the club recruits a rookie to have an impact next year. It has to be a longer term (2 years out) proposition that they are worth promoting to the main list. A late developer perhaps, such as a large ruckman who needs time to learn the role (eg Cox and maybe Beeck).
I have no idea who it would be this year. Don't know what happened with Surjan - everyone had him taken in the draft, except the clubs.
Originally posted by West Coast Stre
Duffield would be the better option if we were looking at a bit of game time for next year whereas Surjan is a longer term prospect.
It's more likely the other way around
Streaker
11 Dec 2003, 12:23
Originally posted by Voice of Reason
I don't believe that in most cases the club recruits a rookie to have an impact next year. It has to be a longer term (2 years out) proposition that they are worth promoting to the main list. A late developer perhaps, such as a large ruckman who needs time to learn the role (eg Cox and maybe Beeck).
Historically, the Rookie list was there mainly for "projects" and also in case you had an appalling run that season (i.e. heaps of medium-long term injuries in your main list). Because of the much smaller "salaries" to rookies, you could afford to take that 6'6" beanpole who might never put on the necessary weight or, if he did, might lose the athleticism, say, that appealed to you. You accepted that the kid may very well never make it and, even if he did, it would probably take some years but you felt he had good upside that made the relatively low risk worthwhile. Similarly for a shorter player who had significant deficiencies (maybe even just being tiny) at the time but who you thought he might be a chance once he gained experience and had worked on his defiencies and had had a chance to show form against men. So, theoretically, the "best available" doesn't have to be "immediately available / ready to play". A kid could be deemed "best available" because he is considered to have greater upside / potential, especially in the context of the type of player your list needs, down the track than someone else who will "mature" much earlier but is deemed to have less potential.
However, if we look at what has changed since the early days of the Rookie List:-
1. Main lists are shorter so you don't need so many injuries before you may need to call up a rookie to cover the immediate long-term injury hole(s). By definition, such a rookie needs to be at least able to step up immediately without being an embarrassment.
2. Recent changes to the veteran rule enable a team with fewer that 2 vets to elevate a nominate rookie(s) at the start of the season to be on the main list all that year. Obviously the only rookies who could be used would have to be pretty much ready, especially physically. That rules out the beanpole project rookie.
3. Footy has become somewhat akin to "scrumby". With serious flooding and a floating scrum of 16-22 plays at stop plays, there is greater requirement now for a player to be a "strong body" build. That is not the description of a typical Rookie from earlier years.
4. Costs of developing players have risen enormously. Coaching staff sizes (and cost) have risen enormously. A Rookie still takes up his proportion (maybe more) of their time and overhead cost. Ditto for Player Welfare, Football Manager, etc staff.
5. Monies directly attributed to Rookies have also increased.
Of these 5 factors, the most important are the first 3.
In short, you can still afford to have traditional project rookies but you must also balance it with virtual "ready to run" options.
There should always be a place on a Rookie List for a project. However, the Rooke List is no longer just a virtual nursery. It should now be seen as very much a resource for the season. Some clubs seem to have embraced this paradigm shift in player list management more than some other clubs have.
Voice of Reason
11 Dec 2003, 12:48
Sound argument - you've convinced me.
Ironically, I think points 1-3 are probably bad for football (2 less so)!
I didn't see Bentick on your list WCS.
Wacko^Jacko
11 Dec 2003, 13:12
Originally posted by YAKUZA
I didn't see Bentick on your list WCS.
and hartigan was drafted!! he was on your list
Streaker
11 Dec 2003, 13:22
Thought an inside midfielder like Bentick would be more along the lines of Freo's wishlist. I really like his work ethic but his speed would be of a little concern.
There's no such entity as Joondalup - never has been, never will be.
There's only ever been West Perth - the mighty fighting Cardies.
Anything else is utter heresy.
I invoke the names of Dempsey, Whinnen, Fong, Menaglio, Knell, Duckworth, Dyson, O'Dwyer, Watling, Harris, Trewellha and a legion of champions as testimony to that fact.
Duffield has better skills than Surjan and not such a big head
but you guys dont have to worry cause he will probably end up at Geelong or Fremantle.
Originally posted by Exeter
There's no such entity as Joondalup - never has been, never will be.
There's only ever been West Perth - the mighty fighting Cardies.
Anything else is utter heresy.
I invoke the names of Dempsey, Whinnen, Fong, Menaglio, Knell, Duckworth, Dyson, O'Dwyer, Watling, Harris, Trewellha and a legion of champions as testimony to that fact.
Joondie Woondies. Nah nah na na nah.
Streaker
11 Dec 2003, 17:43
Originally posted by Exeter
There's no such entity as Joondalup - never has been, never will be.
Just as there is no such entity as:
The Kangaroos
Western Bulldogs
Brisbane Lions
Years down the track they will be saying, West who... never heard of them.
You will get used to it, old man.
Not only is there no such entity as Joondalup, I've yet to see compelling evidence that the so called "City of Joondalup" exists.
It's chimera in the mind of some deranged urban planner.
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."
The Mission Man
11 Dec 2003, 18:27
Go you Joondie Woondies!
The Joondalup Goonies sounds more derogatory. I'm disappointed in you Mission Man.
Actually MM and Ripper I'm surprised that you didn't come back with the comment that Joondalup is somewhere on the west coast - wherever that is.
Its called a free hit.
I remain a true believer.
Originally posted by sam1
Duffield has better skills than Surjan and not such a big head
but you guys dont have to worry cause he will probably end up at Geelong or Fremantle.
Disagree 100% on the skills, persona probably is true however. Teague's skill level would be higher than both I would imagine.
Smart rates Duffield pretty highly so I'm thinking PSD pick may come to fruition.
Voice of Reason
12 Dec 2003, 11:00
Originally posted by The Mission Man
Go you Joondie Woondies!
The disturbing aspect to this is that, of your 276 posts, 94% of which have been on the West Coast Eagles board, that was up there with the best of them.
WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!! WEST PERTH!!!
southjoy
12 Dec 2003, 12:07
Originally posted by dasler
Disagree 100% on the skills, persona probably is true however. Teague's skill level would be higher than both I would imagine.
Smart rates Duffield pretty highly so I'm thinking PSD pick may come to fruition.
You never cease to amaze me Dasler.
Once again you are pretty close to the truth of these kids at S.F
However(skills) under pressure I would like to back Jake instead of Lucas. But Lucas has so much room to move into. I would also state that as athletic as Jake and Theo are! As the game progressses Lucas keeps going. He is very quick and has great speed endurance. So at the end of the game he is almost as quick as when he started.
Originally posted by dasler
Disagree 100% on the skills, persona probably is true however. Teague's skill level would be higher than both I would imagine.
Smart rates Duffield pretty highly so I'm thinking PSD pick may come to fruition.
Geez, it makes me wonder then, why they have bothered looking at Duffield and Surjan, when Teague's skills are above theirs?
How did Teague get into this equation when he is not even in the running????
Originally posted by sam1
Originally posted by dasler
Disagree 100% on the skills, persona probably is true however. Teague's skill level would be higher than both I would imagine.
Smart rates Duffield pretty highly so I'm thinking PSD pick may come to fruition.
Geez, it makes me wonder then, why they have bothered looking at Duffield and Surjan, when Teague's skills are above theirs?
How did Teague get into this equation when he is not even in the running????
Just my observations from watching them play southjoy and brief chats to them.
Sam1 it takes more than simple skill to make a footballer. The way I see it Surjan is better than Duffield who is better then Teague slightly. (btw the way I am a fan of Lukas' football so spare me the occasional rose coloured glasses comment):D
IMHO no matter what the "ego" etcetera Surjan was the unluckiest not to be drafted this season as I simply cannot find an on-field reason as to why he should have been overlooked. I think his confidence within himself may be mistaken as arrogance. As for Duffield well he is equally as unlucky as he strikes me as an extremely poised individual on and off the field.
It's a travestry when you see recycled hacks kept in the system when you have players like these two looked over.
Originally posted by southjoy
You never cease to amaze me Dasler.
Once again you are pretty close to the truth of these kids at S.F
However(skills) under pressure I would like to back Jake instead of Lucas. But Lucas has so much room to move into. I would also state that as athletic as Jake and Theo are! As the game progressses Lucas keeps going. He is very quick and has great speed endurance. So at the end of the game he is almost as quick as when he started.
Agree with you on both fronts there southjoy
Hey Dasler Thanks! I have just collected on a bet.
good luck to duffield and surjan hopefully neither will go to Freo they dont know what talent is just look at who is selecting for them. Dumb and Dumber!
Originally posted by sam1
Hey Dasler Thanks! I have just collected on a bet.
What was the bet and what did you collect?
BigCat1
13 Dec 2003, 22:10
Originally posted by sam1
Duffield has better skills than Surjan and not such a big head
but you guys dont have to worry cause he will probably end up at Geelong or Fremantle.
Pretty much spot on. There was an article in today's age refering to the fact we had cooled on the idea of trying to convince Harvey to play. Duffield has now become the favourite for our last spot.