Who Fared Well in the Draft ?

[Kildonan]

Below is my ranking of how well each team fared in the draft:

1 Melbourne
3 – Colin Sylvia – Bendigo Pioneers
5 – Brock McLean – Calder Cannons
36 – Chris Johnson – East Fremantle
52 – Pass

Took the minimum – all class

2 Western Bulldogs:
1 – Adam Cooney – West Adelaide
4 – Farren Ray – Peel Thunder
50 – Iszac Thompson – Woodville West Torrens
62 – Pass

Question marks on Ray, but they got the best one and must be happy

3 Collingwood:
17 – Bill Morrison – Tassie Mariners
32 – Brayden Shaw – Northern Knights
35 – Brent Hall – South Fremantle
48 – Heath Shaw – Northern Knights
60 – Julian Rowe – Oakleigh Chargers

A great draft result for the wobbles, possibly the best bunch recruited

4 Geelong:
7 – Kane Tenace – Murray Bushrangers
22 – Cameron Thurley – Tasmania
38 – Mark Blake – Geelong Falcons
42 – Matthew Spencer – Swan Districts
54 – Pass

Looks like they got exactly what they were after.

5 Essendon:
6 – Kepler Bradley – West Perth
13 – Brent Stanton – Northern Knights
28 – Jay Nash – Central District
44 – Ricky Dyson – Northern Knights

The dons must be happy with that lot. Stanton may have been taken a little early, but they didn’t miss out because of it.

6 West Coast:
11 – Beau Waters – West Adelaide
20 – Sam Butler – Central District
26 – Daniel McConnell – Eastern Ranges

Took the minimum and must be happy with them.

7 Fremantle:
10 – Ryley Dunn – Murray Bushrangers
12 – Ryan Murphy – Gippsland Power
19 – David Mundy – Murray Bushrangers
27 – Adam Campbell – North Ballarat Rebels
43 – Brett Peake – East Fremantle

Freo have done well but surprised me in not taking more of the local talent.

8 Sydney:
16 – Josh Willoughby – Glenelg
29 – Tim Schmidt – West Adelaide
45 – Amon Buchanan – Sydney
47 – Andrew Ericken – Sandringham Dragons
59 – Matthew Davis – North Adelaide

Sydney have picked up quite a nice bunch with Schmidt and Willoughby headlining them.

9 Brisbane:
18 – Llane Spaanderman – East Perth
23 – Matthew Moody – East Fremantle
33 – Jed Adcock – North Ballarat Rebels
49 – Tom Logan – Waratahs
61 – Michael Rischitelli – Western Jets
68 – Pass

Although not yet convinced of Spaanderman’s value, Brisbane have fared quite well with Moody, Adcock and Logan

10 Kangaroos:
9 – David Trotter – Calder Cannons
24 – Chad Jones – Claremont
40 – Edward Sansbury – Central District
56 – Brent Le Cras – West Perth
66 – Pass

Picked up a nice mix. The roos should be pleased.

11 St Kilda:
8 – Raphael Clarke – St Marys
55 – Sam Fisher – West Adelaide
65 – Craig Callaghan – St Kilda
71 – Pass
74 – Pass
77 – Pass

Took the minimum in a weak draft. Clarke, Fisher, the smokey from West Adelaide and redraft as promised of Callaghan

12 Adelaide:
14 – Fergus Watts – Sandringham Dragons
31 – Josh Krueger – Glenelg
58 – Ben Hudson – Werribee
67 – Pass

Adelaide took the minimum in a weak draft. Fergus may be the goods to replace the aging Carey and Krueger is a ruck project.

13 Port Adelaide:
15 – Troy Chaplin – North Ballarat Rebels
30 – Brad Symes – Central District
34 – Luke Peel – Sandringham Dragons
39 – Robert Forster-Knight – Essendon
46 – Michael Pettigrew – West Perth

A few nice pick ups there.

14 Richmond:
21 – Alex Gilmour – Tassie Mariners
37 – Tom Roach – Oakleigh Chargers
53 – Daniel Jackson – Oakleigh Chargers
64 – Shane Morrison – Brisbane Lions
70 – Brent Hartigan – Calder Cannons
73 – Shane Tuck – West Adelaide
76 – Andrew Raines – Southport
79 – Simon Fletcher – Carlton
81 – Kyle Archibald – NSW/ACT Rams
82 – Pass
83 – Pass

Richmond have a good mix of youth and recycled players. Gilmour may be a “cracker” and Hartigan and Archibald could prove to be more than useful.

15 Carlton:
2 – Andrew Walker – Bendigo Pioneers
57 – Ricky Mott – Fremantle
63 – Glen Bowyer – Hawthorn
69 – Jordan Bannister – Essendon
72 – Adrian De Luca – Port Melbourne
75 – Steve Kenna – Box Hill Hawks
78 – Pass
80 – Pass

Carlton did the best they could with their draft restrictions, concentrating on recycled players because they didn’t want to get tied (2 years) to too many youngsters in this draft. In the 2004 draft, they will grab more youth, and have some idea who they will weed out of these new recruits. A long road ahead still.

16 Hawthorn:
25 – Harry Miller – Port Adelaide Magpies
41 – Zac Dawson – Calder Cannons
51 – Matthew Ball – Box Hill Hawks

Took the minimum number in a weak draft.

[lamby29]

With Sylvia, McLean and Johnson... we effectively got 3 top 10 picks.

Collingwood did very well too. Morrison will be a star.

[theorangeapple]

well i'll take an unbiased view...ignoring the fact i support the eagles and say that port has done the best out of this draft considering the picks they had and the 'potential' of the players they took.

[Black Thunder]

a bit harsh on Port Adelaide there.

For a team to finish second, not trade all that much, and still get the quality of picks they got is fantastic work.

[PJ Power]

I can't help but feel that the two grand-finalists have done nothing to harm the quality of their lists with their picks.

I agree, of all the players picked outside of the top 10, Morrison sounds the most likely to be a superstar. Having said that, his pen-pic is very quick to point out that injury has already put a question-mark over his ability to fulfil such huge potential.

[BigCat1]

I reckon Essendon got four very good players. They must be happy. (much to my disgust)

[anonymous Joe]

Originally posted by BigCat1
I reckon Essendon got four very good players. They must be happy. (much to my disgust)
;)

Dodoro seems to be good Harvey was a mistake but thats an attitude not a talent problem Davies was a **** up though but more to do with SHeedy I think.

Apart from thats he's done well last years draftees will take time but look good and this years seem alright. Stanton apparently had OP if he can overcome this he could in future years be a steal @ 13. Same for Nash and Dyson.

[Hosko]

Collingwood and Port did very well given their selections

[Kenny_01]

Originally posted by lamby29
With Sylvia, McLean and Johnson... we effectively got 3 top 10 picks.


Johnson a top 10 pick? Very doubtful.

[Demonheart]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Johnson a top 10 pick? Very doubtful.

A conservative estimate would be a late first round pick. We did very well out of this draft but being rewarded for mediocrity doesn't sit that well in the stomach, I hope we are not in this position again next year.

Considering their draft picks the pies did very well, Dunn at 10 looks like a good pickup and I thought that Port did quite well.
Also Dyson @ 44 must have been a bit of a surprise for the dons.

[cjwalkley]

No one has fared well yet, as none of the players have played a game of senior football. How do people know who will be the net Chris Judd or who will be the next Danny Roach?

All the recruiters put a positive spin on the kids they get, you have to wait 3 years minimum before being able to assess who did well.

[the oggmonster]

On playing credentials alone, Essendon has done the best. All Australian and Best Player in Division 1 at the Championships, Kepler Bradley at pick 6. Stanton (13), Nash (28) and Dyson (44) are all AIS Academy players, with the last two representing their states at the National Championships over the last two years. Stanton, Nash and Dyson were all rated as first/second round selections.

Essendon now has the most exciting young list in the league whne you add Winderlich, Laycock, Walsh, Watson and Cartledge from last year.

[SCRAY72]

Why the questions marks on Farren Ray? Right now two days after the draft and 4 months from the new season there are question marks on all draftees.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by the oggmonster
Essendon now has the most exciting young list in the league whne you add Winderlich, Laycock, Walsh, Watson and Cartledge from last year.

I like to think the same, but wait until the Saints and Freo supporters get here. :D

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Stevo
I like to think the same, but wait until the Saints and Freo supporters get here. :D

Or any supporter of about 6 clubs who can also drop names of teenagers no-one has ever heard.

[Porthos]

Salopek, Gilham, Ebert, Champion, Chaplin, Symes, Peel, Pettigrew, Patfull.

See how exciting Port's list is?

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by the oggmonster

Essendon now has the most exciting young list in the league whne you add Winderlich, Laycock, Walsh, Watson and Cartledge from last year.

Not that you are biased.

I would like to know how you define the best young list, however IMO if you are looking at a list that is 25 and under then your list does not come even close to WC's.

Our list includes:

Cousins
Wira
Gardiner
Fletcher
Embley
Kerr
Cox
Sampi
McDougal
Hunter

Which co-incidently are probably very close to our top10 players too. By the way there are number of other even younger less known players not included in that comparison.

I am quiet happy for you to be excited by Essendon's accomplishments on the draft day as you have donve very well however when comparing the best young list then you are still behind WCE, Saints and Freo by a fair bit.

For the record I also now rate WB list of young talent too and would say that they are probably ahead of Essendon too.

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Porthos
Salopek, Gilham, Ebert, Champion, Chaplin, Symes, Peel, Pettigrew, Patfull.

See how exciting Port's list is?

Amazing!!!

Wells, Urch, Grima, Shore, Perry, McIntosh, Trotter, Chad Jones, Lecras, Sansbury.

Get 'em in black and red and we can't lose!!!

:rolleyes:

[electricsix]

Originally posted by anonymous Joe
;)

Dodoro seems to be good Harvey was a mistake but thats an attitude not a talent problem Davies was a **** up though but more to do with SHeedy I think.

Apart from thats he's done well last years draftees will take time but look good and this years seem alright. Stanton apparently had OP if he can overcome this he could in future years be a steal @ 13. Same for Nash and Dyson.

essendon has effectively got 4 players who couldve gone top 25.

last year they got laycock, winderlich and walsh all very very good players.

dodoro knows his stuff.

the ruck and lack of pace will be a strength in two years time

[electricsix]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
Not that you are biased.

I would like to know how you define the best young list, however IMO if you are looking at a list that is 25 and under then your list does not come even close to WC's.

Our list includes:

Cousins
Wira
Gardiner
Fletcher
Embley
Kerr
Cox
Sampi
McDougal
Hunter

Which co-incidently are probably very close to our top10 players too. By the way there are number of other even younger less known players not included in that comparison.

I am quiet happy for you to be excited by Essendon's accomplishments on the draft day as you have donve very well however when comparing the best young list then you are still behind WCE, Saints and Freo by a fair bit.

For the record I also now rate WB list of young talent too and would say that they are probably ahead of Essendon too.

essendon has 25 and under:

lloyd
jjohnson
mjohnson
ramanuaskas
bolton
solomon
hille
mcveigh
winderlich
reynolds
laycock
walsh
cupido
mcphee
welsh
rioli
richards
haynes
johns
bullen
peverill

+ this years draftees

i think this more than outdoes w.coasts list mentioned above

[Porthos]

I like 25 and under

Warren Tredrea
Peter Burgoyne
Shaun Burgoyne
Chad Cornes
Josh Carr
Domenic Cassisi
Stuart Cochrane
Stuart Dew
Steven Salopek
Kane Cornes
Toby Thurstans
Brett Ebert
Stephen Gilham
Chris Hall
Damon White
Wade Champion

+ draftees

[Stevo]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
Amazing!!!

Wells, Urch, Grima, Shore, Perry, McIntosh, Trotter, Chad Jones, Lecras, Sansbury.

Get 'em in black and red and we can't lose!!!

:rolleyes:

And what about some of the Saints' players who haven't exactly done much of note? Is it merely because they were top 5 picks?

I do agree with you, there's a distinction between the expectation and anticipation of results, and then the results themselves.

[NorthBhoy]

When in Rome.....

22 years old and under (we have stuff all from 24 to 25 years old, so in true bigfooty tradition I will do it this way. It looks better)


Petrie
Wells
Motlop
Harris
Watt
Rawlings
Urch
Grima
Shore
Perry
McIntosh
Harding
J Clayton
Firrito
Corey Jones
Hale
Watson
Baird

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by electricsix
essendon has 25 and under:

lloyd
jjohnson
mjohnson
ramanuaskas
bolton
solomon
hille
mcveigh
winderlich
reynolds
laycock
walsh
cupido
mcphee
welsh
rioli
richards
haynes
johns
bullen
peverill

+ this years draftees

i think this more than outdoes w.coasts list mentioned above

Well we will agree to disagree.

Just as a point of comparison I can only see only two players that have been AA within the Essendon list above, in Lloyd and Johnson.

Within the WCE 10 mentioned there are three in Cousins, Wira, Gardiner. There are also two runner up Rising Star nominees in Kerr and Judd, who I accidently left out within my original list. Ohh and Cousins was a Rising Star winner. At least one of the Fletcher, Embley and Kerr was increadibly unllucky to miss AA selection this year mainly due to injury.

Just on that basis and without going into stats comparison I would would prefer the WC list.

By the way the WC players I have included have actually accomplished something and are not just players rated on potential. IMO the following Ess players that you have rated on potential include.

bolton
mcveigh
winderlich
laycock
walsh
mcphee
welsh
richards
haynes
johns
bullen

[Stevo]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
bolton
mcveigh
winderlich
laycock
walsh
mcphee
welsh
richards
haynes
johns
bullen

Who rates Bolton? I don't. Similarly, I still have my doubts about Bullen.

Winderlich, Laycock, Walsh, Richards, Haynes, Johns, yep.

Welsh and McPhee deserve to be rated, both had good seasons. McPhee had a very good finals series. McVeigh was also a reliable defender. Of course, these three players aren't exceptionally talented, they are more "good ordinary players".

[no1bankteller]

Our full 25 and under list in alphabetical order only:

Damian Adtkins
Callum Chambers
Ben Cousins
Dean Cox
Andrew Embley
Chad Fletcher
Michael Gardiner
Travis Gasper
Darren Glass
Kasey Green
Paul Johnson
Rowan Jones
Chris Judd
Daniel Kerr
Quentin Lynch
Andrew McDougall
Chad Morrison (anoter ex AA by the way)
Kane Munro
Ashley Sampi
Adam Selwood
Brent Staker
David Wirrpunda

I still like our list better :D :D :D

Cheers

[marcuz]

Yet with half our senior team missing....Lloyd , hird and fletch among them we still beat a full strength WC team this year.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Stevo

Welsh and McPhee deserve to be rated, both had good seasons. McPhee had a very good finals series. McVeigh was also a reliable defender. Of course, these three players aren't exceptionally talented, they are more "good ordinary players".

I will accept that they deserve to be rated as you have a far better knowledge of your side.

[no1bankteller]

I see you really do understand the point of this discussion.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
I will accept that they deserve to be rated as you have a far better knowledge of your side.

The main point is that they have the score on the board. Is Andrew Welsh a better player than Jared Brennan? Welsh has played about 30 games and held down a spot in defence quite well. Brennan has looked promising but has achieved little. I'd say that Welsh has had a better AFL career than Brennan. Is he a better player? He's certainly not as talented, and probably Brennan will have a better career. But at this stage, Welsh has the score on the board. And it's not just about how many games one has played, obviously, but how one has played them. If football ended tomorrow, Brennan would be regarded as a flash in the pan, Welsh would be regarded as a consistent and reliable performer.

[pazza]

It comes down to this...the way the clubs have drafted this year, you have to be very hard and very harsh to be disappointed with how things have gone.

Personally, I couldn't be happier with our efforts.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Stevo
The main point is that they have the score on the board. Is Andrew Welsh a better player than Jared Brennan? Welsh has played about 30 games and held down a spot in defence quite well. Brennan has looked promising but has achieved little. I'd say that Welsh has had a better AFL career than Brennan. Is he a better player? He's certainly not as talented, and probably Brennan will have a better career. But at this stage, Welsh has the score on the board. And it's not just about how many games one has played, obviously, but how one has played them. If football ended tomorrow, Brennan would be regarded as a flash in the pan, Welsh would be regarded as a consistent and reliable performer.

No doubt about that and I agree with that logic. This is why I have only originally posted 10 WCE under 25 players, ie the ones that have score on the board. Mind you I missed out Judd which was a slight error on my behalf.

The point of my post was to say that the original post by Ogg that Essendod has the best youngest list in the competition is a biased post. I used WCE as a point of reference as their top 10 or 11 younger players have accomplished more to date then Essendon top 11 young players.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by pazza
It comes down to this...the way the clubs have drafted this year, you have to be very hard and very harsh to be disappointed with how things have gone.

Personally, I couldn't be happier with our efforts.

I agree with that and I too am happy... I love the sound of Waters and he alone makes the WCE draft special.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
No doubt about that and I agree with that logic. This is why I have only originally posted 10 WCE under 25 players, ie the ones that have score on the board. Mind you I missed out Judd which was a slight error on my behalf.

The point of my post was to say that the original post by Ogg that Essendod has the best youngest list in the competition is a biased post. I used WCE as a point of reference as their top 10 or 11 younger players have accomplished more to date then Essendon top 11 young players.

Well, Oggmonster said that we have the most exciting young list in the competition. Of course, that's also highly contentious, but I think it is indicating more towards the potential of the list, rather than the results.

But I do agree with you, otherwise.

[Kenny_01]

Can any other team field a starting 18 that would be competitive in the AFL and only contains players 22 years of age or under... well since I'm bored, I thought I'd have a shot for us.

B: Hayden Haddrill Thornton
HB: Woods McPharlin Mundy
C: Headland Hasleby Haines
HF: Dunn Polak Webster
F: Medhurst J. Longmuir Browne

R: Sandilands Pavlich Schammer

The side I just named looks pretty close to our best side anyway with Dunn, Haines, Mundy and maybe Browne thrown in.

For 25 and under, that basically includes everyone else on our list except Bell, Cook, McManus, Waterhouse, Parker and Farmer who are the only players on our list over 25.

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Can any other team field a starting 18 that would be competitive in the AFL and only contains players 22 years of age or under...

I will try...

B: Urch Watt Rawlings
HB: Firrito Brown Baird
C: Wells Harris Motlop
HF: Harding Petrie Jones
F: J Clayton McIntosh Grima

Ruck: Hale, Trotter, Watson

I: Shore, Perry, Sansbury, Lecras


I reckon that side would win 6+ games.

All potential however, except for Brown, Watt, Rawlings, Jones, Harding, Harris, Motlop, Wells, Baird and Petrie who have all showed something at the top level.

[Glory Days]

Youth obsession.

Do you think Brisbane has suffered for lack of youth? They didn't exactly need to return to year zero to (re)build their list either.

I don't think birth certificates will necessarily will pave the yellow brick road for ya mate.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Can any other team field a starting 18 that would be competitive in the AFL and only contains players 22 years of age or under... well since I'm bored, I thought I'd have a shot for us.


Kenny this is an interesting challenge. Lets see what I can come up with for WCE.

Back Humm Glass Waters ( I love the sound of him)
HB Hunter Gapser Selwood
Center Embley Kerr Judd
HF Staker Lynch Munro
FF Seaby McDougall Sampi

Rucks Cox Adkins Butler

Interchange

Hansen Nickoski Beeck McConnell

I must say though that as far as the team is concerned we are slightly top heavy based on your criteria and we are playing all three or our draftees. Howver considering that I have not included Cousins, Wirra, Gardiner and Fletcher who are a year or two older I am not at all dis-satisfied with the above team.


Good post though, an interesting question.

[Stevo]

Essendon's 22 and under side:

B: Welsh Hunt Walsh
HB: McPhee Richards Bradley
C: Reynolds Winderlich Haynes
HF: Stanton Johns Watson
F: Cupido Laycock Dyson
R: Hille Ramanauskas Bullen

Int: Nash Cartledge ...

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Stevo
Essendon's 22 and under side:

B: Welsh Hunt Walsh
HB: McPhee Richards Bradley
C: Reynolds Winderlich Haynes
HF: Stanton Johns Watson
F: Cupido Laycock Dyson
R: Hille Ramanauskas Bullen

Int: Nash Cartledge ...


IMO, the side I put up would mangle the above.

[FIGJAM]

Originally posted by Porthos
I like 25 and under...
If you're talking IQ, then you're going to have to include your coach.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
IMO, the side I put up would mangle the above.

You definitely have the advantage in talls. But if you took players of the ilk of Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher, and Wellman out of a side, you're always going to look significantly worse off. The loss of Jason Johnson and Hird hurts our midfield, but not too badly, or at least, not as badly as taking out those talls.

I'd say that the midfields are roughly even, but with guys like Petrie, Brown, Watts, and Baird, you have a clear advantage.

[Grendel]

Osborne
Bateman < > Lonie
Ladson Mitchell Kane
Hodge < > Williams
Brown
Campbell Ries Greene


Err.. no. Cant name a 'competitive' 22 or under side. 23 or under I can add Picioane, A.Cox, Croad and Jacobs but it still looks a bit crook for height. Still another 2 KP short and an on-baller. :( Didn't quite realise until I did this how small that line-up is. :(

Thankfully that side wont be taking the field without those 23 and over players. At least I can take some comfort in that.

[dasler]

IMO Western Bulldogs, Essendon and Melbourne did very well fot themselves.

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Stevo


I'd say that the midfields are roughly even, but with guys like Petrie, Brown, Watts, and Baird, you have a clear advantage.


On the surface, but Watt and Baird worry me. I have doubt over their long term value. McIntosh, Perry and Shore should take care of them soon enough.

Essendon obviously tried to adress the midfield worries last year, and I have only seen a few of them. Bullen I rate, Haynes I don't, Reynolds has a few problems but should make it. Winderlich plays like Ash Watson. Ash Watson I rate alongside Wells for midfield briliance and star quality.

Wells, Harris and Motlop will be guns. It is the only line in the team that I can say that with complete confidence.

Hille has it over Hale now, but there is a three year age gap and a major difference in body shape which is important to remember.

Cupido and Harding are very simmilar. Soft, one position players with little scope for major improvement.

McIntosh and Laycock are talls taken last year. Laycock is more athletic and looks more confident in the ruck, but Hamish is a monster kid who, with time, will be a ****ing nightmare to match up on.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
On the surface, but Watt and Baird worry me. I have doubt over their long term value. McIntosh, Perry and Shore should take care of them soon enough.

Essendon obviously tried to adress the midfield worries last year, and I have only seen a few of them. Bullen I rate, Haynes I don't, Reynolds has a few problems but should make it. Winderlich plays like Ash Watson. Ash Watson I rate alongside Wells for midfield briliance and star quality.

Wells, Harris and Motlop will be guns. It is the only line in the team that I can say that with complete confidence.

Hille has it over Hale now, but there is a three year age gap and a major difference in body shape which is important to remember.

Cupido and Harding are very simmilar. Soft, one position players with little scope for major improvement.

McIntosh and Laycock are talls taken last year. Laycock is more athletic and looks more confident in the ruck, but Hamish is a monster kid who, with time, will be a ****ing nightmare to match up on.

Haynes looks more likely than Bullen: He's quicker, has good skills, and kicks goals. Bullen doesn't look like anything special, to me. Agree about Reynolds. He's a real goer, so he could become a good rover, even though with his overhead ability he'd be a handy wingman. Winderlich is the most promising, he has the ability to do some extraordinary things, but he does look awkward in the way he moves.

At the moment, I agree with you regarding Cupido and Harding, but Cupido does have plenty of scope for improvement. The worry is whether he resists any move away from the goals. If he can push up to a wing, he'll be good. He's got plenty of pace, great skills, and is strong in marking contests.

Was surprised that you took McIntosh ahead of Laycock. I thought Laycock was the best big man in the draft. I was stoked to get him.

[Squeak]

Collingwood's 22 and under:

B: R Shaw, T Walker, M Lokan
HB: R Lonie, J Cloke, B Johnson
C: R Cole, M McGough, A Didak
HF: B Nixon, B Morrison, D Swan
F: L Davis, C Tarrant, T Davidson
R: J Fraser, B Shaw, L Shackleton
Int: C Cloke, G Richards, D King, B Hall

[electricsix]

cupido has more ability in his arsehole than leigh harding

fair return for his first full year of footy

[pazza]

Richmond will be embarrased (if they aren't already) about Haynes and Essendon.

Bullen to me is special. Hardness in the middle is an important element, and Bullen's 2003 illustrated just how hard he is in the middle.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by electricsix
cupido has more ability in his arsehole than leigh harding

fair return for his first full year of footy

Thats a one very special arsehole!!!

[Babylove]

Originally posted by Squeak
Collingwood's 22 and under:

B: R Shaw, T Walker, M Lokan
HB: R Lonie, J Cloke, B Johnson
C: R Cole, M McGough, A Didak
HF: B Nixon, B Morrison, D Swan
F: L Davis, C Tarrant, T Davidson
R: J Fraser, B Shaw, L Shackleton
Int: C Cloke, G Richards, D King, B Hall

That sounds alright. I didn't realise that Johnson was under 22 years of age. I thought he'd been around a while. But I don't mind that list.

[bulletproof]

I must disagree with my good friend Oggmonster here there are only three clubs who can lay claim to this young list potential b*ll****.
St Kilda has the cream on top with Riewoldt and all the other players gifted to them by the communist AFL but lack depth there late picks have returned little.
Similarly for Freemantle except they have fared better through late picks and rookie draft selections and have good depth of young talent.
Geelong has a very even spread of talent with Ling, Enright, Chapmen, S Johsnon, Bartel and all the rest i cant be stuffed listing all being very good young players. Unluckily for Geelong there limited (read no ) access to the top picks means they lack a genuine gun, only Ablett and maybe Kelly could lay claim to being a future superstar.

In order the best young lists are
Freemantle
St Kilda
Geelong
West Coast

The top three have little to no reliance on established players which makes them far more likely to improve than the other teams. West Coast has some old players but some genuine young guns as well so they sneak into fourth.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by pazza
Richmond will be embarrased (if they aren't already) about Haynes and Essendon.

Bullen to me is special. Hardness in the middle is an important element, and Bullen's 2003 illustrated just how hard he is in the middle.

Bullen really fell away late in the year, and I began to have doubts over whether he'll be a good long term contributor. Struggled to find the ball, and his lack of pace got shown up a few times.

Richmond won't be embarassed as yet about Haynes, he hasn't really done anything of note. But if he does, and I hope he does, then Richmond will be disappointed at having let him slip.

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Stevo
Haynes looks more likely than Bullen: He's quicker, has good skills, and kicks goals. Bullen doesn't look like anything special, to me

I worry about Rookie listed guys, especially ones who have been passed over a few times. Bullen looks to me to have the ability to step up to another level. Haynes I could compare to Jeremy Clayton. Rookie listed, 22 years old. Clayton 'won' the Liston by 6 votes and missed 7 games (5 he got called up, the other two he was rubbed out). He has won 3 B+F's in the VFL in a row, but I still worry about him making a long term impact.


Originally posted by Stevo At the moment, I agree with you regarding Cupido and Harding, but Cupido does have plenty of scope for improvement. The worry is whether he resists any move away from the goals. If he can push up to a wing, he'll be good. He's got plenty of pace, great skills, and is strong in marking contests.

I don't see it in him, nor do I see it in Harding. I don't think either clubs will be disapointed with a 40+ return each year however.

Originally posted by Stevo Was surprised that you took McIntosh ahead of Laycock. I thought Laycock was the best big man in the draft. I was stoked to get him.

In true pre-draft fashion I thought we got the best big man!!!

Height and age aside, they are very differen't footballers. Laycock is smooth and athletic, Hamish is 100 kg's of unrefined and potentially FB maiming marking machine. Like a quicker more stylish 19 yo Paul Salmon with mongrel and a pack busting leap.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by bulletproof
The top three have little to no reliance on established players which makes them far more likely to improve than the other teams.

That's exactly the question Essendon will need to answer if they are to be successful in a few years time. Hird doesn't have long left, and Fletcher and Wellman won't be far behind. We've learned to deal without Fletcher, but Hird will be a huge loss.

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by Stevo
That's exactly the question Essendon will need to answer if they are to be successful in a few years time. Hird doesn't have long left, and Fletcher and Wellman won't be far behind. We've learned to deal without Fletcher, but Hird will be a huge loss.

He will be in the sense that you will miss those games he wins off his own boot, but given the amount of positions he plays, in terms of structure, Wellman and Fletcher may be harder to replace IMO.

IMO, we will miss Colbert more than Archer in terms of results. No doubt who is the better player, but we were trash when Colbert was out this year, and only improved when he returned.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
He will be in the sense that you will miss those games he wins off his own boot, but given the amount of positions he plays, in terms of structure, Wellman and Fletcher may be harder to replace IMO.

IMO, we will miss Colbert more than Archer in terms of results. No doubt who is the better player, but we were trash when Colbert was out this year, and only improved when he returned.

If Lucas continues to settles in to CHB, then Fletcher won't be as big a loss. We've got plenty of players who can step into Wellman's shoes.

[Westy_Boy]

Bulldogs u/22 top 22:


B: ..Birss ..... Harris ... Hargrave

HB: .Gilbee .... Morgan ... Power

C: ..Murphy .... Cooney ... McMahon

HF: .Ray ....... Walsh .... Giansiracusa

F: ..Faulkner .. Bowden ... McGuiness

R: ..Skipper ... Hahn ..... Cross

I/C: Boyd ...... Wight .... Wiggins .... Murphy

[gosaints]

I'll have a go

Saints 22 & under team

B: L.Fisher Maguire Ferguson

HB: Gram Penny Guerra

C: Blake Goddard Dal Santo

HF: R.Clarke Riewoldt X.Clarke

F: Murray Kosi Milne

R: Brooks Ball Montagna

Int: T.Schwarze S.Fisher Houlihan Moyle

Hayes, Knobel and Baker all just miss. They have recently turned 23.

[dees_best]

MELBOURNE'S 22 AND UNDER

B:Hunter-Carroll-Lamb
HB:Rivers-Ferguson-Wheatley
C:Armstrong-Sylvia-Thompson
HF:Green-Smith-Bell
F:Jamar-Miller-Johnson
R:Jolly-McLean-Fisher

[Spook]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Johnson a top 10 pick? Very doubtful.
Kenny are you from WA???
What do you know about Johnson???
nothing I bet

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Can any other team field a starting 18 that would be competitive in the AFL and only contains players 22 years of age or under... well since I'm bored, I thought I'd have a shot for us.

For the Brisbane Lions 22 or under.

B: J. McDonald, D. McLaren, L. Weller
HB: R.Copeland, J. Brennan, J. Adcock,
C: M. Rischitelli , R. Hadley, T. Selwood,
HF: M. Moody, J. Brown, A. Corrie
F: A. McGrath, L. Spaanderman D.Merrett

R: J. Charman, A. Shattock, T. Logan

Had to add a rookie Luke Weller who did play for the Lions this year, but was delisted. He may be rookie listed or drafted again in the pre-season draft. Perhaps Furfaro or Ryswyck might be added to the Lions' list.

Shane Morrison would also have been in this side, probably at CHB, had he been still around.

While not the best 22 or under side, it would be very competitive against other sides.


Originally posted by Kenny_01
For 25 and under, that basically includes everyone else on our list except Bell, Cook, McManus, Waterhouse, Parker and Farmer who are the only players on our list over 25.

For 25 and under, add Luke Power, Tim Notting and Simon Black to the above list as well.

B: J. McDonald, D. McLaren, T.Notting
HB: R.Copeland, J. Brennan, J. Adcock,
C: A. Shattock, L.Power, R. Hadley,
HF: M. Moody, J. Brown, A. Corrie
F: A. McGrath, L. Spaanderman D.Merrett

R: J. Charman, S.Black, T. Logan

I: T. Selwood, M. Rischitelli, L. Weller (rookie listed?), J.Furfaro (rookie listed?).

We have some reasonable young players, despite the perception that Brisbane is ageing fast.

[stefoid]

Originally posted by Westy_Boy
Bulldogs u/22 top 22:


B: ..Birss ..... Harris ... Hargrave

HB: .Gilbee .... Morgan ... Power

C: ..Murphy .... Cooney ... McMahon

HF: .Ray ....... Walsh .... Giansiracusa

F: ..Faulkner .. Bowden ... McGuiness

R: ..Skipper ... Hahn ..... Cross

I/C: Boyd ...... Wight .... Wiggins .... Murphy

Street (23yo)

[blockerhall]

Hard to go past that saints lineup, and I'm a Dockers supporter.

On Johnson, I'm from WA, Kenny is from WA, and I and others like me are amazed at how Melbourne fans rate him.

Basically done nothing over here. If his father wasn't Alan he would have been undrafted at the end of Saturday.

[lamby29]

Originally posted by blockerhall
Hard to go past that saints lineup, and I'm a Dockers supporter.

On Johnson, I'm from WA, Kenny is from WA, and I and others like me are amazed at how Melbourne fans rate him.

Basically done nothing over here. If his father wasn't Alan he would have been undrafted at the end of Saturday.
Funny that.

Craig Cameron reckons Johnson would have easily gone 2nd round, and most likely would have gone Top 15.

So... who do I trust: Kenny, blockerhall or Craig Cameron?

:confused:

[blockerhall]

Two words... Luke Molan

[lamby29]

Originally posted by blockerhall
Two words... Luke Molan
Have you ever seen him play?

[blockerhall]

Yes, why didn't you re-draft him.

Have you seen Johnson play?

[lamby29]

Originally posted by blockerhall
Yes, why didn't you re-draft him.

Have you seen Johnson play?
Because he didn't nominate.

And yes, I have seen CJ play.

[dees_best]

Luke Molan will silence his critics in a couple of years and then you will know why Craig Cameron selected him at pick5. Chris Johnson must be a considerable talent if he made the AIS/AFL academy or can his dad just buy him into that?Personally I think he is a player of great promise.

[dees_best]

*Pick 9 sorry

[tashibatts]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
When in Rome.....

22 years old and under (we have stuff all from 24 to 25 years old, so in true bigfooty tradition I will do it this way. It looks better)



Baird

What about Boomer and Sinclair (both are 24/25)... both are.. handy.

And as for Baird- he is 23.. add LeCras (22)

Go Roos

[blaise]

FB : Mcgrath Hall Archibal


HB : Zantuck Morrison Tuck


C : Fiora Coughlan Newman


HF : Pettifer Shultz Krakouer


FF : Roach Nicholls Jackson


FOLL : Ottens Hyde Hartigan


i/c Gilmore Raines Moore


That is one classy talented group of youngsters

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by blaise



That is one classy talented group of youngsters [/B]

In the bizzaro world.....

[evo]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
In the bizzaro world.....
I saw all of Norths games last year Northbhoy and IMO you are being way to cocky.Your the man I'll be gunning for if there s any Arden St. humble pie to be eaten next season.:D

[NorthBhoy]

Originally posted by evo
I saw all of Norths games last year Northbhoy and IMO you are being way to cocky.Your the man I'll be gunning for if there s any Arden St. humble pie to be eaten next season.:D

Feel free!!!

[Jars458]

Crows players 25 and under as at 1 Jan 2004

James Begley
Nathan Bock
Matthew Bode
Bret Burton
Michale Doughty
James Gallagher
Trent Hentschell
Luke Jericho
Graham Johncock
Chris Ladhams
Kris Massie
Martin Mattner
Ken McGregor
Ian Perrie
Brent Reilly
Ben Rutten
Jacob Schuback
Robert Shirely
Tyson Stenglein
Scott Welsh
Hayden Skipworth
Scott Stevens
Fergus Watts
Ben Hudson
Josh Kruger

25 players, even enough for three emergencies

Welsh Hentschell Schuback
Burton Perrie Ladhams
Johncock Stenglein Reilly
Bebley McGregor Mattner
Shirley Rutten Massie
Hudson Bode Skipworth
Watts Doughty S Stevens J Gallagher

Em: Kruger Bock Jericho


26 - 28 a brilliant group of key players

McLeod, Ricciuto, Edwards, Goodwin, Hart, Biglands, M Stevens, N Basset and J Torney

30 and over

Smart Burns Carey and Clarke all of who are probably in their last year.

A very well balanced list in my view, with all the guys in the last year covered for the years ahead with the ruck the only real concern.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Jars458

26 - 28 a brilliant group of key players

Biglands, M Stevens, N Basset and J Torney


Do you seriously consider these players brilliant?

IMO and I am no authority on Crows, but I would say that they are good players but not brilliant.

[fishman]

Too add in my bid...here is Geelongs younguns...

b: wojcinski scartlett rahilly
hb: enright harley rooke
c: tenace corey kelly
hf: ablett loats haynes
ff: chapman mccarthy playfair
r: king ling spriggs
i: s.johnson d.johnson gardiner moloney

[evo]

Had to add a rookie Luke Weller who did play for the Lions this year, but was delisted. He may be rookie listed or drafted again in the pre-season draft.

I'm lead to believe he s training at Tigerland, Roylion.Would appreciate any info and your opinion on him.

Also interested in your thoughts on Morrison and whether he ll be good enough to walk straight into our starting 22,we sure lack his body type down back.

[wooshta_9]

Dockers players 25 and under as at 1 Jan 2004

Andrew Browne
Matthew Carr
Ryan Crowley
ben Cunninghan
Brett Doswell
Greg Edgcumbe
Daniel Gilmore
Antoni Grover
Robert Haddrill
Daniel Haines
Paul Haselby
Roger Hayden
Des Headland
Justin Longmuir
Troy Longmuir
Luke McPharlin
Paul Medhurst
Matthew Pavlich
Graham Polak
Aaron Sandilands
Byron Schammer
Andrew Siegert
Troy Simmonds
Scott Thronton
James Walker
Dion Woods
Luke Webster.

[Jars458]

Originally posted by no1bankteller
Do you seriously consider these players brilliant?

IMO and I am no authority on Crows, but I would say that they are good players but not brilliant.

I said a brilliant group of players

I listed all the plyers we have in that age group. Wasn't saying they were all brialliant but that in total its a brilliant group.

[Its All Goodes]

I am going 23 and under for Sydney...not a bad side as not many teams can boast a Brownlow winner, an Irishmen, an Ablett and a hyphen


B Dempster C Bolton Fixter
HB Powell James Kennelly
C McVeigh N Davis Sundqvist
HF Ablett Roberts-Thomson O'Keefe
F Doyle Thewlis Schneider
Foll Goodes J Bolton Fosdike
Int From Meiklejohn Willoughby Schmidt Buchanan Malceski Ericksen M Davis


About half that team is in Sydneys best side

I expect players like McVeigh, Thewlis, Dempster to get a taste this year....maybe even the latest draftees...Willoughby and Schmidt

[Kildonan]

I think Sydney made a smart move drafting Willoughby and Schmidt together. Despite the fact that they may be at times competing for the one senior spot, these guys have been opponents and teammates in SA, and may grow closer both being cosidered equal B&F for the SA under 16 side, and sharing a similar experience of moving to the BIG city together.

I am a real rap for Schmidt, he is a gutsy player with great disposal skills. I think both players are capable of appearances in the senior team late 2004 and by 2006 could be anything.

[no1bankteller]

Originally posted by Jars458
I said a brilliant group of players

I listed all the plyers we have in that age group. Wasn't saying they were all brialliant but that in total its a brilliant group.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Jars458
[B]26 - 28 a brilliant group of key players

McLeod, Ricciuto, Edwards, Goodwin, Hart, Biglands, M Stevens, N Basset and J Torney/B][/QUOTE]

Jars as far as I can see you have said that between ages of 26-28 you have a brillieant group of key players and whilst I do agree that McLeod, Ricciuto and Hart (even Goodwin is a above average player) are brilliant players I do not think the other five are. I thank you for your explaination it is just that it seemed that you were suggesting that all of those players werew brilliant. Glad to see that we are on a same page.