Rivalries

[Kildonan]

I know there are teams we prefer to beat but I dont think that we (St Kilda) have a traditional rival.

I have a few excerpts from another thread on the main discussion board Saints to finish above Freo (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95271)

Originally posted by RIPPER_46
Get ready for 8-10 years of healthy rivalry. Every game between the two teams will be super exciting.

Originally posted by marcy8811
Both have the most exciting young lists in the comp and in 2 years time, I see them finishing around the top 2 on a regular basis. Why bag each other? Both teams have so much to look forward 2.

Bag the inferior teams whose supporters for so long let us know all about how bad our list were, about our losing cultures etc etc

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Comparing individual players is a stupid way to measure teams and how good they are going to be.

St. Kilda's younger players have had less time playing together than ours, but last season, they still had a lot of older/ experienced players (Harvey, Burke, Voss, Hamill, Powell, Gehrig, Thompson, Peckett, Lawrence, Hudghton, Hamill) who played regularly... so age/inexperience can't really be used as an excuse.

No doubt they have a great group of core youngsters, but how's the depth?

Originally posted by Black JuJu
I'm not one for comparing player vs player when rating a team as a whole so I'll just say that I think the Dockers are the better side at the moment, they play great consistent football, won a sound amount away from home. Yes, the likes of Sam Newman have hung onto the "cant win outside of Perth" idea but really folks, I'd take a guess that their away record was about average or above when compared to the rest of the league.

The Saints, although promising are simply yet to put the runs on the board - so I really have no reason to think an equally, if not more promising team in Fremantle would finished below them next season.

Now despite my team copping the usual crap in the always tedious Chris_Judd/Joffaboy side act, I think this is an interesting question and would have to agree with Ripper that the coming years of Saints vs Freo should be interesting and a great chance for both teams to establish an a rivalry to play off - something the Saints really lack and the Dockers only really have the Eagles - so it could be great for fans of both clubs to get pumped for the games, if you get me.

Originally posted by no1bankteller
B Ju Ju good post as always...

I think that great sides thrive on rivalry and I remember when we were making grand finals we had three great rivals, Hawthorn, Essendon and Melbourne... Interestingly though we never really had a great rivalry with Geelong...

Recently we too have slipped in the rivalry stakes as Melbourne has performed poorly over last few years and Hawthorn too has under achieved. Instead our rivalry is now with Essendon and Freo only and Freo has only become competitive over last few years.

IMO there is a correlation of good sides winning Grand Finals if they have had a strong rivalry against strong clubs throughout out the year.

Sides that come to mind are Essendon and Hawthorn of the 80's. WCE and Hawthorn early 90's. Essendon, Carlton and Roos mid 90's. Even this year Essendon, Port Adelaide and WCE had established a strong rivalry with Brisbane. Whilst Collingwood rivalry was only with Port Adelaide, IMO I do not think they had a rivalry thing going with Brisbane as they were in the awe of them rather then seeing them as they equals....

I am keen on encouraging the formation of a genuine rivalry between Freo and ourselves. I think that teams only develop rivalries through mutual respect and I believe it can also bring out a superior performance - both of these teams will be a power in the AFL for several years (till the end of the decade at least, even if we stop developing new youth now) and hopefully this will be a springboard for continued success for years after that.

[riccardo]

South were traditional rivals with the Saints, due to the location of the teams on either side of the Lake. Thier matches were known as the "Lake Premiership". The rivalry continued into the 1920's from the VFA days, but seemed to drop off a bit in the intervening years until the moves of St Kilda to Moorabbin and the Swans to Sydney.
I am looking forward to a great rivallry with the Dockers in the future, it will be good just to be compeditive enough to do so.

[Kildonan]

Traditional rivalries have often been between cotenants - this may happen, but I like the idea of developing one now - creating history as it were. Freo seem to be the one in my opinion to parallel our development and are likely to peak at about the same time as us (maybe just a little earlier).

Some people have also mentioned that we are allocated the "blockbuster match" with Richmond - so why aren't they our new "traditional rivals"? Is this what the AFL want?

[evertonfc]

Face it, we haven't got any true rivals. The Hawthorn one was genuine in the Waverley days, but not any more.

Games against Richmond and Carlton seem to be especially heated, though.

Carlton fans are loathe to admit it, but they hate us and it has always contributed to a good atmosphere. If they nick Goddard back and Bradley gets an off-field role there, it will be on for young and old ;)

[sainter]

Originally posted by evertonfc
Face it, we haven't got any true rivals. The Hawthorn one was genuine in the Waverley days, but not any more.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on the way you look at it, we don't have any true rivals because we don't have the respect of the rest of the competition.

I suppose the one good thing you can take from that is that supporters of opposition clubs are genuinely upset when they lose to us. "How can we lose them?"

One of the things that used to frustrate me beyond belief was having many opposition supporters offering their sympathy and telling you that the Saints are their second favourite team. The appointment of Grant Thomas has changed that. People are starting to revel in our losses and genuing hoping that we don't succeed.

As for developing a rivalry, that takes many, many years. We shouldn't concern ourselves with trying to harness a rivalry with a particular team. Simply becoming a successful club, winning games, finals and eventually premierships is all we need to worry about. If other clubs see us a genuine threat, they will want to beat us.

[JeffDunne]

Originally posted by sainter
One of the things that used to frustrate me beyond belief was having many opposition supporters offering their sympathy and telling you that the Saints are their second favourite team. The appointment of Grant Thomas has changed that. People are starting to revel in our losses and genuing hoping that we don't succeed.
I knew there was a reason I liked GT.

Over the years we have developed some short-lived rivalries but invarabley these die during one of our down-periods.

The Carlton one has a bit of interest ATM, which is ironic considering the W-L ratio of the teams. Since Elliotts comments, the Hamill thingy, losing Goddard to us, the 'spoons @ PP, etc. it has all the ingredients to hang around for a while. I'm hoping the W-L battle will be in our favour in the immeadiate future, but the overall record will keep blues fans in it. Having Hamill & Goodard around should also ensure their hatred, keeping up their end of the bargain.

The best rivalries seem to maintained by big games (finals). Here's hoping the next decade provides lots of opertunities for decent on-fields rivalries to develop.

[Winmar]

There's nothing better than beating Carlton. Even picking up a supermodel wouldn't compare. :)

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by Winmar
There's nothing better than beating Carlton. Even picking up a supermodel wouldn't compare. :)

someone say supermodel?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Tivoom/Saintelle.jpg

[ComicStoreGuy]

Originally posted by Falchoon
someone say supermodel?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Tivoom/Saintelle.jpg :D :D :D :D

[Falchoon]

I'd be happy to give Carlton a 15 goal start ;)

[garth p]

What do you mean, " nic goddard back" evertonfc. You can't get "back", what you never had in the first place. In any event BJ ain't going anywhere.

[Kildonan]

An old post, but still relevant (and the Elle poster is worth checking out)

Are we developing any rivalries?

Geelong ? (or is that just hatred)

Adelaide ?

Sydney ?

West Coast ?

Brisbane ?

Freo ?

[Kildonan]

There's nothing better than beating Carlton. Even picking up a supermodel wouldn't compare. :)

I hope we can maintain our winning streak against this rabble for a few more decades - gees I hate Carlton supporters.

[TheHeatleyStand]

Your traditional rivals are Freo....

[TheHeatleyStand]

I hope we can maintain our winning streak against this rabble for a few more decades - gees I hate Carlton supporters.


4 or 5 more decades of beating us and we will be just about even.....

[m.diddy]

nah i reckon the last two years our main rival has been geelong and it will be for the next 5-8. They wont to prove they have the better younger side, which they clearly don't

[sainter]

4 or 5 more decades of beating us and we will be just about even.....

Looks like we'll both enjoy the next 40 years then. We'll beat you every time and you'll have your much valued winning record.

I'm inclined to agree with Milnedog and say Geelong as well. Both teams have great young lists and haven't always seen eye to eye in recent times. Provided our clubs continue to be towards the top of the ladder and challenge for the premiership in the immediate future I think the basis is there for a healthy (and sometimes bitter) rivalry.

[Rocco Jones]

What about us? Apparently we have a few decent youngsters down at the club now. Both traditional strugglers, everytime we have a big year you seem to be up there too. Like sainter I think due to lack of respect we don't have a real rival. Essendon is a bit of a Western suburbs derby, but we must be low down on their list. Richmond is more a pure hatred thing from our part.

[Kildonan]

Actually Rocco, there is always an intensity to the matches we play.
The match against the Doggies 2005 was one tough match for both teams.
The Saints had just been upset (butter boys) around that time and had a point to prove. The Dogs just wouldn't cave in despite the pressure and both our teams started our march towards finals soon after. You guys capitulated against Melbourne wasn't it? and we succumbed to the umpires / Freo.
The point was that such a tough match started both teams on the right track.

I didn't include Western bulldogs in my original thoughts because I quite like the Doggies and don't have an axe to grind there.

[Terry Tan]

I think your traditional rivals are probably the Bulldogs cos you both only got 1 Flag hahhahahahhahahhahaHA!!

[Turbocat]

I think your traditional rivals are probably the Bulldogs cos you both only got 1 Flag hahhahahahhahahhahaHA!!

F***en Richmond . Fair Dinkum all class.

[Turbocat]

nah i reckon the last two years our main rival has been geelong and it will be for the next 5-8. They want to prove they have the better younger side, which they clearly don't

Cleary? big to diff but there you go. In truth in these days of an equallised comp true rivalries , where sides play each other in big games year in / year out . like Hawks/Roos , Hawks/Essendon are rare but..

Cats V Saints in the next 3-4 GF's would infact create a true rivallry.

[Kildonan]

Well a rivalry has already broken out between us, (Cats and Saints), without trying.

The end of the 2003 season was when the Saints started coming of age. We won four on the trot in impressive fashion and the last game of the season was against the Cats. They jumped us and soured our self congratulations. The next season, we first met in the preseason comp in the GF. The Saints turned the tables winning and to Geelong's chagrin, we kept a lid on it. The Cats coach, Thompson was less than graceful about the loss, and Chapman acting as club spokesperson, issued a statement that suggested the Saints were inferior to the Cats and this would be shown to be the case next time they met. The Saints subsequently crushed the Cats leaving no doubt as to who was the young up and coming team was. The Cats were livid, and the next time we met was a cracker of a match at Kardinia Park which the Cats won (in a closely fought match). In 2005, we had two matches, the first where the Saints cruised to a comfortable lead, then capitulated due to loss of players in the midfield rotation. The Cats stormed home to win. The next match was an injury depleted Geelong, playing a dour brand of football to prevent a blowout win to the Saints.

How will the next few meetings go?

[Captain Sensible]

F***en Richmond . Fair Dinkum all class.



I think he's a trolling bulldog supporter. A Richmond supporter wouldnt use a disparaging term bulldog supporters use amongst ourselves for our ex-coach as his user name. I cant think of a reason a Richmond supporter would even know that name.

[mad dog muir]

I think that Geelong are it with Freo as a rank outsider,all teams young and with good lists,all trying to stake their claim to fame FIRST!!:thumbsu:

[Sound]

HAHA you have got to be joking!!! Rivalries!! haha.... OPEN YOUR EYES! you have a pathetic history and a small fanbase...you need to be successful to EARN Rivalries! Your team is the complete opposite! as someone said in this thread, if anything, people felt sorry for st kilda, your everyone’s second favourite team :) ... nobody hates you... you need to EARN hate, not to sit on the bottom for 110 years, win one flag and then get some draft picks for finishing on the bottom and come good (which wont last long) anyway...some good world class Rivalries - Carlton vs Collingwood , Essendon vs Collingwood, Richmond vs Essendon (teams with rich histories and these games always draw 60,000/70,000 + even if the teams are in the bottom 4) Hawthorn vs Essendon (80's powerhouses), Adelaide vs Port Adelaide and Fremantle vs West coast (the Derbies) ... as much as you would like to think that Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon and Richmond hate st kilda......they don’t!!!, its just another small game against a small club with no history and a weak little crowd of about 35,000 at TD …..

[CharlieG]

The old Lake Oval rivalry seems to be warming up again in the past couple of years - especially since we've played in two do-or-die finals in a row.

[sainter]

Good to hear from you again Sound. Your input is as welcome as it was for your first post.

Did you even read the thread?

We're perfectly comfortable with our past and we enjoy being in a situation where we can look ahead and create some new history.

At least stick to the facts please. That means doing a bit of research and looking at our attendances and membership figures in recent years to stop yourself looking so foolish.

We don't claim to be the biggest or most successful club but we've a very bright future. I'd think most people would prefer an exciting future than to have had a successful past.

Thanks again.

Oh, there's an option where you can choose what team you support. It might give you a bit of more credibility in the future.

[Kildonan]

The old Lake Oval rivalry seems to be warming up again in the past couple of years - especially since we've played in two do-or-die finals in a row.

I expect that next time we meet, the Saints will be out to prove that the prelim was not a true representation of what our club is about. If Sydney are fair dinkum, it will be a cracker of a match.

[Kildonan]

Well a rivalry has already broken out between us, (Cats and Saints), without trying.

The end of the 2003 season was when the Saints started coming of age. We won four on the trot in impressive fashion and the last game of the season was against the Cats. They jumped us and soured our self congratulations. The next season, we first met in the preseason comp in the GF. The Saints turned the tables winning and to Geelong's chagrin, we kept a lid on it. The Cats coach, Thompson was less than graceful about the loss, and Chapman acting as club spokesperson, issued a statement that suggested the Saints were inferior to the Cats and this would be shown to be the case next time they met. The Saints subsequently crushed the Cats leaving no doubt as to who was the young up and coming team was. The Cats were livid, and the next time we met was a cracker of a match at Kardinia Park which the Cats won (in a closely fought match). In 2005, we had two matches, the first where the Saints cruised to a comfortable lead, then capitulated due to loss of players in the midfield rotation. The Cats stormed home to win. The next match was an injury depleted Geelong, playing a dour brand of football to prevent a blowout win to the Saints.

How will the next few meetings go?

Geelong appear to be trying to capitalise on the burgeoning rivalry (between Cats and Saints) ...

Warrnambool Standard
BLOCKBUSTER (http://the.standard.net.au/articles/2006/02/10/1139465825111.html)
By ANDREW THOMSON
February 10, 2006

THE AFL's greatest new Victorian rivalry this century is set to take a leap forward with Geelong pushing for clashes with St Kilda to become designated `blockbusters'.

With both clubs having solid claims to the best team in Victoria and last year's matches playing to packed houses at the Telstra Dome, Geelong backman Tom Harley believes matches between the clubs becoming blockbusters is a natural progression.

Blockbusters are played annually on set dates and involve greater promotion and marketing opportunities for the clubs.

``We were asked about the rivalry between Geelong and St Kilda at the forum (on Tuesday night), about whether that was genuine, and I can assure you it definitely is,'' Harley said.

``We've basically each got claims as the best Victorian side.


``They are a top young side and we feel we have the same claim. Every time we play each other now it's generally a sell-out crowd.''

Harley said it was time for the AFL to consider developing new blockbusters.

``We've never really had a blockbuster game, but I'd like to think over the next couple of years they could really market that,'' he said.

``Whether we play on an Anzac Day or an Easter Thursday or something like that, we could really hype it up.''

The Cats play St Kilda twice in 2006, both times at the Docklands Stadium, away from the greater capacity MCG.

``I haven't really looked at the draw this year, but I would like to think it could be a 70,000 crowd-type game,'' he said.

``Telstra Dome when it's full though, it's always rocking, it's a great place to play football.''

Geelong plays St Kilda twice this year with both games at Telstra Dome, on Friday, May 12 and Sunday, August 13.

Cats CEO Brian Cook said the blockbuster Geelong-St Kilda concept had been tabled with the AFL and was a possibility.

However, he said while the concept had AFL support finding an annual weekend to play the match would prove more difficult with other clubs not willing to give up dates such as Anzac Day. Cook said Easter weekend was a possibility but all options needed to be considered.

[Kildonan]

The Saintsational thread on the St Kilda - Geelong rivalry (http://www.saintsational.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17003&sid=76014c4df783454cc35f44bbae8c7c84) is interesting.
Whilst many posters embrace the concept and agree these games should be rated blockbusters, there are several posters who claim that Geelong are not yet an equal partner in the blockbuster process, in fact some go so far as to say that if we are rivals with Geelong then that depreciates our club and standing.

I don't know that I agree.

For so long we were considered a joke, wooden spooners who will remain so.

Now that we've had some very little success, is not yet the time to get all high and mighty.

If Geelong want to declare rivarly status with us - I see that as an acceptance of our improved status - I say bring 'em on!

...and that goes for any other team out there who is good enough to challenge us on-field, and wants to make it more intense - bring 'em all on!!!

[St DAC]

I wouldn't mind developing a "blockbuster" rivalry with the Pussies. They are about on par with us with their results over the past couple of years, in fact we've split wins for the last 3 years. They've a good squad that matches up pretty well against us, and the atmosphere now at TD when we play them is electric.

Although nothing, absolutely nothing, is as sweet as belting Essendon!

[cats2rise]

If Geelong want to declare rivarly status with us - I see that as an acceptance of our improved status - I say bring 'em on!
Geelong fans know that StK are the only victorian team that could/would take a flag before us leaving them as the better Victorian side.

But i am sure over the next few years things between our respective clubs will get savage!

I think Geel/StK will be a bigger rivalry than StK/Freo because StK/Geel are both victorian teams therefor sloser and will know alot more about respective clubs.

It is looking like a great 10 years for both clubs though.

Bulldogs and Freo are the 2 teams under Geel/StK i think that in 2-3 years will be having the same argument as us!

[evertonfc]

Fremantle will be a much bigger rivalry if they get their house together as they have a potentially premiership winning team.

Adelaide, too, has the potential to develop a rivarly - as with Sydney.

As a power club in a national competition, I think it's healthy to look across the nation to establish rivalries.

I don't mind the hatred that comes from Geelong and Carlton fans - if they want to fuel up what they think is a rivalry, good for them. They're just more of the same to me.

[mad-saint-guy]

Nah, I reckon the only team we'll have a true rivalry with will be Geelong.

I just don't care about Sydney or Freo...the reason I hate Geelong so passionately is because I know so many feral, arrogant Cats fans, wheras I don't know a single Sydney or Freo fan. It's hard to hate a team that you have nothing to do with, and never discuss. That is the exact opposite with Geelong, there's a huge amount of cats fans in Warrnambool, and they're constantly being hyped up, either by idiots or idiots in the media (the standard does nothing but kiss their arse now that they've been to Warrnambool twice..though it isn't all bad. I knocked over a geelong player doing a clinic (can't remember who it was though) when I was in primary school, which is something I'm very proud of).

[Kildonan]

The thing about rivalries is that they help generate revenue through great crowds.
I'm not about to exclude clubs who believe they have a rivalry with us.
It's all good for the Saints.

Look at the derbies in SA and WA, the passion involved almost guarantees a full crowd and both clubs involved benefit.

Look at Collingwood, who seem to hold traditional rivalries with almost every Vic based club, (or did, back when they were good) and a few interstate ones. Each club they have "rivalries" with benefits both partners, but because all of these "rivalries" involve Collingwood, they benefit multiple times over their opponents.

This is the sort of future I envision St Kilda should chase, having every club wanting to beat us so passionately that they come out in droves to see it happen. Sadly they make their way home with their tails between their legs (is the way my vision continues).

This sort of passion will ensure our future, (not that it is in any danger ATM), because the tide may turn at some time in the future. We need to 'make hay while the sun shines'. We are still in debt (but look set to pay off all our debts late 2006 or early 2007 (see AGM thread (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222094)). We need to do more than be debt free, and that is exactly what we are doing with the redevelopment of Moorabbin (should be complete 2008). Having long term rivalries helps us help ourselves.

We should be aiming to develop comparable off-field revenue producing facilities to Collingwood, Adelaide and West Coast or we may end up struggling like the once powerful Carlton in the distant future.

The Geelong "rivalry" is topical, we are both contenders (or at least believe ourselves to be).

I also believe that there is a lot of passion in the Saints - Bulldogs matches.

Our traditional rivals are the Swans and while there is no longer a geographical link (Lakeside), we've had some interesting and somewhat contraversial results recently.

Others suggested are Adelaide, Fremantle, West Coast and Brisbane (and someone said Carlton :) ).

[bluejay]

From my point of view, a rivalry is defined by how badly the fans (and in the ends, also the players) want to win that concrete game against the other team.

If you take a look at other sports, sometimes rivalries include political reasons (FC Barcelona vs. Real Madrid for example), geographical proximity reasons (Milan AC vs. Internazionale Milan), economical reasons (Boca Juniors vs. River Plate in Argentina's capital Buenos Aires), or simply a shared long period of mutual and excluding success (LA Lakers vs. Boston Celtics).

While probably political reasons might not be the case for footy, what could you aussies tell me about the other 3 reasons? From what I've read, the possibilities might be:

- The Geelong rivalry can become both a geographical (victorian) and sucess one in the near future.
- The Swans rivalry is more a traditional ex-geographical one, but as this factor does not exist anymore, it might fade away within time
- The Carlton rivalry can be included in both geographical and economical types, and by reading some threads in this forum, it is a really fierce rivalry for some people also

So, in the end, it is about... HOW 'much more' BADLY you want your team to win against this team than against the others?

Decide for yourself, everyone has their own reasons, but as St Kildonian says, it would be best for the club if the majority of the Saints fans share this rivalry thought.

PS: Those were just a recollection of my thoughts, they don't have to be the absolute truth ;)

[evertonfc]

Nah, I reckon the only team we'll have a true rivalry with will be Geelong.

Hard to see it happening if St Kilda fans don't acknowledge Geelong as a rival.

I just don't care about Sydney or Freo...the reason I hate Geelong so passionately is because I know so many feral, arrogant Cats fans, wheras I don't know a single Sydney or Freo fan.

That's probably because you live in Warnambool.

How can Geelong fans be arrogant? Christ, you make them sound like Collingwood. They're confident in their own team, nothing more.

It's hard to hate a team that you have nothing to do with, and never discuss.

In the past three finals series in which St Kilda has competed in, we've come up against Sydney in sudden death matches. They've put us out twice. They stole Lockett, Hall, O'Brien and have cost us a flag.

Uh-huh. I just love them.

And Fremantle? Have a look back to Round 21 last year. Have a look at what they're capable of. If they can pull it together, they're going to be huge.

Our rivals will be teams who are competing for premierships.

That is the exact opposite with Geelong, there's a huge amount of cats fans in Warrnambool, and they're constantly being hyped up, either by idiots or idiots in the media (the standard does nothing but kiss their arse now that they've been to Warrnambool twice..though it isn't all bad.

Indeed, in Warnambool, you're probably up against it. It might seem a bit bigger to you down there.

But in Melbourne, which is virtually in a different timezone, Geelong aren't on our radar.

[Kildonan]

Channel 9 made a big deal of the developing rivalry between Saints and Brisbane - showing highlights of physical clashes. They pointed out specifically the Saints good recent record against the Lions in Melbourne.

Round 11, 07-Jun-2003 at Telstra Dome : St Kilda vs Brisbane 90 - 85
Round 6, 01-May-2004 at Telstra Dome : St Kilda vs Brisbane 92 - 91
Round 22, 27-Aug-2005 at Telstra Dome : St Kilda vs Brisbane 186 - 47
Round 3, 14-Apr-2006 at Telstra Dome : St Kilda vs Brisbane 124 - 87

We will know that we have truly become a power when we can beat them at the Gabba.

[Kildonan]

Well here we are again in the rivalry round.

This year our traditional rivals are Western Bulldogs

What about us? Apparently we have a few decent youngsters down at the club now. Both traditional strugglers, everytime we have a big year you seem to be up there too. Like sainter I think due to lack of respect we don't have a real rival. Essendon is a bit of a Western suburbs derby, but we must be low down on their list. Richmond is more a pure hatred thing from our part.
Actually Rocco, there is always an intensity to the matches we play.
The match against the Doggies 2005 was one tough match for both teams.
The Saints had just been upset (butter boys) around that time and had a point to prove. The Dogs just wouldn't cave in despite the pressure and both our teams started our march towards finals soon after. You guys capitulated against Melbourne wasn't it? and we succumbed to the umpires / Freo.
The point was that such a tough match started both teams on the right track.

[Kildonan]

The very next week after the rivalry round we play Geelong

The story so far....

The end of the 2003 season was when the Saints started coming of age. We won four on the trot in impressive fashion and the last game of the season was against the Cats. We were cocky after such a few wins and Geelong jumped us and soured our self congratulations.
The next season, 2004, we first met in the Grand Final of the preseason comp. The Saints had learned some humility, their focus was on the REAL thing and to Geelong's chagrin, we kept a lid on it, we were unemotional about the win. Geelong took exception to this (as if it were a personal affront). The Cats coach, Thompson was less than graceful about the loss, and Chapman acting as club spokesperson, issued a statement suggesting the Saints were inferior to the Cats and this would be proven the next time they met. The Saints subsequently crushed the Cats, in a totally dominant display, leaving no doubt as to who the young up and coming team was.
The Cats were livid, (a genuine rivalry was beginning to evolve) and the next time we met was a cracker of a match at Kardinia Park. The Cats won in a closely fought match. This was a ripper of a match, and despite losing, I still find to be one of the most entertaining matches to watch.
In 2005, we had two matches, the first where the Saints cruised to a comfortable lead, then capitulated due to loss of players in the midfield rotation. The Cats stormed home to win. They were lucky and Thompson was gracious enough to say so in the post match conference. The next match was an injury depleted Geelong, playing a dour brand of football to prevent a blowout win to the Saints.
Both 2005 matches were not a true indication of how these two teams can play. 2006 will again see two matches between these rivals. Both at Telstra Dome (The Cats don't want to sacrifice the extra cash that these meetings can generate and so the Saints gain a slight advantage)

The first is on Friday Night, a home game for the Saints.

Here is the AFL site preview (http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=matchdetails&spg=display&articleid=264304):

ST KILDA v GEELONG

WHERE & WHEN: Telstra Dome, 7.40pm, Friday 12 May.

TV & RADIO: Channel Nine, 3AW, Triple-M, ABC Radio, K-Rock

OUR COVERAGE: live scores, stats & audio, Game Day News Desk, match replay (24 hour delay)

HEAD TO HEAD: Played 196 - Won: St Kilda - 78, Geelong 118

LAST TIME: St Kilda 13.18 (96) def. Geelong 8.7 (55) Round 19, 2005, at Telstra Dome


TAB SPORTSBET: St Kilda $1.62, Geelong $2.15

THE MEDICAL ROOM: Justin Koschitzke heads a long list of injured players at Moorabbin. His skull fracture, sustained in a clash with Bulldog Daniel Giansiracusa at Telstra Dome last Saturday will keep him sidelined indefinitely. The Clarke brothers, Raphael (quad strain) and Xavier (hip) will miss 2-3 and 6-8 weeks respectively while James Gwilt will be sidelined for between 6 and 8 weeks also with a left superior tibia/fibula sprain. Fergus Watts (broken leg) is unlikely to be ready to return until mid-season at best. For the Cats, skipper Steven King, a late withdrawal against the Demons in round six faces a fitness test on his hamstring, and there will be tests also for Tom Harley (knee) and Paul Koulouriotis (quad). Brent Prismall (broken arm) faces 6-8 weeks out of action while Nick Batchelor (hamstring) will miss 2-3 matches. There's a question mark over Peter Riccardi who pulled-up last Friday night with some tightness in his ageing hamstrings.

THE STORY SO FAR: The Saints' season is delicately balanced with three wins - against Richmond, Brisbane and the Bulldogs last Saturday, and three losses - to West Coast, Port Adelaide and Fremantle in Launceston. The Cats were travelling nicely, with thumping wins over Brisbane and the Kangaroos in the opening two rounds before a run of four straight losses to Hawthorn, the Bulldogs, Sydney and Melbourne.

THE WHITEBOARD: Steven King hadn't trained since doing his hammy against the Hawks in round three, so his late withdrawal against the Demons last Friday was no great surprise. He will presumably need to perform well on the track to come up this week. Brad Ottens has lifted in King's absence, but the captain's return would allow Ottens to pitch-in up forward. Henry Playfair and Kent Kingsley will be better for the run against the Demons, but the Cats are still relying too heavily inside their forward 50 on the likes of Gary Ablett and Paul Chapman. After more than matching Aaron Sandilands one-out in Launceston St Kilda utility Jason Blake felt the pinch rucking against Peter Street last week, and the case for Michael Rix's inclusion for his first game is strengthening. Matthew Scarlett has looked out of sorts in the two weeks since returning from suspension and will need to be at the top of his game to counter Fraser Gehrig who, last week against the Bulldogs, finally managed to channel his energies into kicking goals rather than boxing and wrestling. Nick Dal Santo's outstanding form will entitle him to a chaperone for the evening in the form of Jarad Rooke or perhaps Jimmy Bartel.

THE VERDICT: The Cats arrived at the crossroads two weeks ago - and they're still there, but only just. With Collingwood to come in round eight, they simply must win to get their season back on track. St Kilda recovered from the disappointments of Launceston and a week of debate and distraction to outplay and outmuscle the Bulldogs who were also on the rebound. In the expectation that the Saints will play to their strengths and give 100 per cent, nothing less than Geelong's best will be enough. It's been ages since the Cats produced anything like it and it's difficult to imagine they will turn it around on Friday night. St Kilda by 25 points.

[Soupy]

Will be a ripper of a match. A good rivalry forming here.

Shame the AFL has robbed us in the pass because there are some great match ups last year I think they rubbed out Gehrig for a soft tummy tap which meant we lost the Gehrig/scarlett battle. (Best FF and FB going around at the time) and now with the AFL rubbing out Mooney we have lost the Hammil/Moons match up. The angry, angry Men they are provide great entertainment.

Saints might get us this time, still should be a great match. :thumbsu:

[jacross]

Looks like we'll both enjoy the next 40 years then. We'll beat you every time and you'll have your much valued winning record.

I'm inclined to agree with Milnedog and say Geelong as well. Both teams have great young lists and haven't always seen eye to eye in recent times. Provided our clubs continue to be towards the top of the ladder and challenge for the premiership in the immediate future I think the basis is there for a healthy (and sometimes bitter) rivalry.

Yeah I consider the Saints to be our main rivals at the moment (the melbourne thing simply being a factor of 150 years) and for the same reasons. I love the Saints though so I wouldn't consider it a hatred, just a nice good competitive rivalry.

[Kildonan]

Round 7 Clash - Saints v Geelong

Cats rediscover their claws (http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=printerfriendly&spg=default&articleid=265224)
Friday 12 May 2006
Andrew Wu
afl.com.au

A four-goal-to-one burst in the third quarter has helped Geelong snap a four-match losing streak with an 18-point victory over an, at times, haphazard St Kilda at Telstra Dome on Friday night.

Unable to find inspiration on a night where champion Robert Harvey broke St Kilda's all-time games record, the Saints lacked precision and purpose heading forward and, apart from a brief flurry in the final quarter ,were no match for the Cats, who posted a 12.10 (82) to 9.10 (64) victory.

With Aaron Hamill forced off the field early in the first quarter after clashing with Steve Johnson, and Fraser Gehrig unable to shake off Matthew Scarlett, the Saints' highly rated forward line was limp and impotent.

No match for Steven King and Brad Ottens, the Saints ruck pair of Cain Ackland and Jason Blake was again smashed in the ruck 35 hit outs to 12, while at ground level the Cats won the clearances 37 to 15.

Kent Kingsley struggled up forward, goalless for a third straight match, but the Cats were dangerous when the ball hit the deck with Paul Chapman, who was best on ground with 26 possessions, and the recalled Steve Johnson booting three majors each.

Cameron Ling and Darren Milburn worked hard for 27 touches each, while Brendon Goddard, Nick Dal Santo and Lenny Hayes had 29, 26 and 25 disposals respectively to be the Saints' best.

Played at a frenetic pace, both teams were fierce at the contest early in the first term with Hamill and Steve Johnson both forced off the field after clashing heavily.

Jarad Rooke and James Kelly both booted fine running goals for the Cats either side of an accurate set shot from Troy Schwarze but both teams both squandered relatively simple opportunities in front of goal.

Kingsley, Henry Playfair and Steve Johnson all erred from directly in front while up the other end Andrew Thompson missed when running into an open goal.

Steve Johnson atoned in the opening minute of the second term, dribbling one through from just inside the boundary line to put his side 12 points up but Nick Riewoldt, who started the game in defence, replied two minutes later.

Tired from a chaotic opening term, both teams then settled into a dour struggle, playing what the experts now call 'tempo football'.

An incisive Ottens kick into the corridor opened up play for the Cats, a chain of unbroken passes allowing Playfair to convert from 40 out, and when Chapman split the big sticks the Cats were out to a 16-point lead.

Sensing the danger, Grant Thomas threw his players behind the ball and at one stage all 36 players were in the Cats' forward half.

Somehow, Scarlett found space inside Geelong's forward 50, pinpointing Steve Johnson - who kicked truly for his second of the quarter - and the Cats were out to a 21-point lead.

Well held by Scarlett, Gehrig broke the shackles to goal at the 24-minute mark of the second term but missed minutes later after showing all his strength to fend off the Cat defender with one hand while controlling the ball with his other.

Trailing by 15 points at the long break, Ackland crumbed and goaled for the Saints but majors to Chapman and David Johnson stretched the margin out to 21 and the Cats looked on the verge of cracking the game open.

Riewoldt pegged one back after climbing high in the goal square, but with his much-vaunted teammates in the forward line failing to present up the ground, the Saints resembled a rudderless ship rather than a premiership contender.

Showing resolve after a trying week, the Cats pounced with Chapman goaling before setting one up for Ling and the margin blew out to 27 points.

Jason Gram narrowed the gap to 23 and when Matt Maguire goaled from an impossible angle after Ling and Kingsley both missed chances to ice the game, the margin was just 19 points.

Starting to show more urgency, the Saints moved the ball with more fluency, Goddard snapping truly and when Riewoldt marked just 20 metres out after a brilliant run by Aaron Fiora, a remarkable come-from-behind victory was a realistic possibility.

However, Riewoldt missed and Cats speedster Kane Tenace slotted one home from the 50-metre line and Geelong had stemmed the Saints' tide, stretching the margin out to 19 points a few minutes shy of time on.

And when Steve Johnson made the difficult look ridiculously easy for his third, the Cats had ruined Harvey's record-breaking night.

At his post-match media conference, Geelong coach Mark Thompson agreed this was a must-win game for the club.

"We had our sharpness back, our intensity. We were a pretty desperate club tonight. It was a good test of our leadership group," Thompson said.

"It was how we played that was most important. We were just on."

"We trained the best we've trained for three or four weeks and while I wasn't fully confident, I got the feeling we were going to get something back this week."

Not wanting to blame Riewoldt's miss in the last term for the loss, Grant Thomas was more critical of his team's attitude, which he said contributed to the side being smashed in the clearances.

"We were second to the footy. They won the hard inside footy. They beat us by 20-odd in the hard ball gets. That's something we pride ourselves on," Thomas said.

"It's just a classic example of the importance of attitude in a game of footy. We had a lot to play for in relation to our season and getting a semblance of a bit of form going and there's the other motivation for a guy like Rob Harvey as well.

"Obviously their motivation was stronger and harder and you can only take your hat off to them."

GEELONG: 2.4, 6.5, 10.7, 12.10 (82)
ST KILDA: 1.4, 3.8, 6.8, 9.10 (64)

GOALS – Geelong: Chapman 3, S Johnson 3, Rooke, Kelly, Playfair, D Johnson, Ling, Tenace
St Kilda: Riewoldt 3, Schwarze, Gehrig, Ackland, Gram, Maguire, Goddard
BEST – Geelong: Chapman, King, Ottens, Kelly, S Johnson, Ling, Scarlett
St Kilda: Dal Santo, Hayes, Goddard, Gram, Voss
INJURIES – Geelong: Nil
St Kilda: Hamill (jarred knee)
CHANGES: Nil
REPORTS - Nil
UMPIRES - Chamberlain, Ryan, Goldspink
CROWD - 48,313 at Telstra Dome

[Kildonan]

Last time, the Saints were hot and the Cats were wretched - yet the Cats found a way to get up.

This time the fortunes are reversed - can we be the team to cause the upset ?

[Kildonan]

Bumped - because I think the continuing rivalry with Geelong is topical

[PAFC_1]

I reckon Geelong is your biggest rival, you've had good games with Freo lately too.

Port vs Saints games are really heated tough encounters, but obviously you guys won them all early, and we won all but one since, so it's a bit hard to develop that. I remember a game at Tassie where Shaun Burgoyne was running down the field with his guernsey ripped off, sort of sums up the rough play.

[Kildonan]

A few ungracious Geelong supporters during and after the 2008 round 4 Telstra Dome match which Geelong won...

LOL, are you smoking drugs, seriously?

The funny thing is, Geelong have the injuries prematch, St Kilda none. What will the excuses be if they lose this?

What will be your excuse this week? Lost your 36 year old player to a soft tissue injury? Umpires?

Fair bump - go play netball you sissy pie.

you moron, west did yous a favour by taking clarke off the ground.

Here come the excuses.

Excuse number 2 from you.

Funny that most of the rough stuff was done by our younger skinny players.

St Kilda are just a bunch of front running posers who wilt under under a bit of phisical pressure.

Pathetic umpiring...

St Kilda very lucky they kept them in it for the first half...

St Kilda are soft weak pea hearts...

No excuses

And another pretender bites the dust. NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty bitter hey?

lol pretty weak that all we need to do to put the saints off their game is to give them few bumps. If we know thats all u gotta do with the saints then we sure got them now in our back pocket. heheh.

Here's to being the better team!!

Ah, I see. Remind me, where was Steven Baker today? :rolleyes:

Didn't you guys have an alleged "hard man" who injured his knee by deciding that kneeing opposition players in the ribs was better than picking up the ball?

Suck it up. We won, you lost and we were just too good.

And I'll anticipate the response - I don't care how we win or how many opposition players get knocked out. You have no sympathy for us, I see no need for us to reciprocate.

[ChrisFooty]

St.kilda have been well beaten by Geelong in the past two encounters. For this rilvary to continue, St.kilda has to at least push Geelong. Can they do it?

[Gogeelong]

StKilda was allways been compared to Geelong, lets face it

The reason being that they both had young lists at the same stage of development
Geelongs earliest pick was 7 as compared to KtKildas long list of early picks

Geelong have produced the goods and looks as if it can deliver

I am only stating the obvious. If StKilda is to improve it has to alter its mix or reposition its players

[Lunchlady Doris]

A few ungracious Geelong supporters during and after the 2008 round 4 Telstra Dome match which Geelong won...

Trolling the gameday thread to fuel a rivalry, were you K? You made some questionable posts yourself :p

[bubblegoose]

Trolling the gameday thread to fuel a rivalry, were you K? You made some questionable posts yourself :p

I was a bit lost there reading the first part of this thread thinking - what year am I in? Where the hell am I & where did all these people come from? :confused: