View Full Version : Drop MacGill for White in Sydney>>
ARDENSTREETforever
26 Dec 2003, 16:44
After watching MacGill bowl superbly today: 14overs 1 mdn 1for 70 which included 3 massive sixes. But wait, theres more, Stuart MacGill actually chased down a ball which went to the fence, at full speed, but then the 3rd umpire said 4 runs.
Even on ABC774, this morning, Kerry O'Keefe and the gang, were bagging the sh*te out of him, sayin he was basically absent minded, and wishing he was somewhere else in the field, and he batting was not even up to District Standard.
He makes Glenn McGrath look like a gun!
Crooked Rain
26 Dec 2003, 16:59
We can definitely do without him, especially against the likes of India and Sri Lanka.
cr.
Fall Out Boy
26 Dec 2003, 17:00
I'd love to see Cam White play, but he isn't ready.
Sadly, MacGill is safe.
Originally posted by NorthBoi96
But wait, theres more, Stuart MacGill actually chased down a ball which went to the fence, at full speed, but then the 3rd umpire said 4 runs.
The way it was travelling, it would have been a huge ask for anyone else to stop it either. The save and scoop up were very well executed.
CatManDo
26 Dec 2003, 17:09
Originally posted by NorthBoi96
Drop MacGill for White in Sydney
No.
lamby29
26 Dec 2003, 17:13
In: Hogg
Out: MacGill
* Awaits abuse *
Unwritten_Law
26 Dec 2003, 17:40
MacGill for Harvey *washes out mouth*
No spinners are worthy and he can provide the variety with the added bonus of not getting carted to the fence every over. SCG will suit.
I still think it is more likely that they'll play 5 full-time bowlers in Sydney and one of the batsmen goes (probably Martyn). Gives Katich and Gilchrist a better chance of making a heap of runs.
Fall Out Boy
26 Dec 2003, 17:49
Does Bevan's shoulder allow him to bowl?
If so, bring him in for Martyn, and then replace MacGill with another seamer.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Does Bevan's shoulder allow him to bowl?
If so, bring him in for Martyn, and then replace MacGill with another seamer.
Another seamer from NSW?
Don Nash?
Doug Bollinger?
Cooldude
26 Dec 2003, 19:18
Originally posted by NorthBoi96
After watching MacGill bowl superbly today: 14overs 1 mdn 1for 70 which included 3 massive sixes. But wait, theres more, Stuart MacGill actually chased down a ball which went to the fence, at full speed, but then the 3rd umpire said 4 runs.
Wait, this is a first day pitch, wait, the pitch is as barren as the mongolian plains, wait, Macgill came on to bowl when the score was 100/0, to two batsmen that are well set.
Then people say he's useless coz he bowled crap, when the quicks bowled WAY worse than Macgill ever would.
Macgill's never expected to have a great role to play today, there are no spinners in the world, not even Warne or Murali, who would've survived against the blade of Virender Sehwag today, that bloke was on fire. Then instead of saying how well Sehwag batted, we say how crap Macgill bowled.
We seems to forget that Sehwag should've been out stumped off Macgill, or even before that, should've been run out. Macgill should not have been bowling to him
I'd rather see us play 10 in Sydney that MacGill get another run. Other than Tendulkar - he has pretty much helped the rest of the Indian squad find their form The bloke is a liability - with the bat, ball and in the field.
Personally - I'm happy to see the Aussies take some stick today, backing up from Adelaide. Hopefully this will give the selectors a reality check and prod them to make some decisions and changes to the bowling side.
That said, we'll probably get the curries out for 400, our batsmen will do well, but I just don't see the current lineup having the ability to take 20 wickets.
Sure Warne & McGrath are due back soon, but we need to blood some talented bowlers, as these 2 stars won't be on the scene forever.
This doesn't mean Bracken either (a young talent). I couldn't believe how slow he was bowling (just a nudge above Steve Waugh's gentle medium pacers). Ditto with Williams.
Brett Lee needs to go back to basics. He only pitched a handful of balls up where you should. 90%+ of his balls were pitched before or around halfway down the track. Not sure how he expected to take a wicket bowling that ****.
Originally posted by Cooldude
We seems to forget that Sehwag should've been out stumped off Macgill, or even before that, should've been run out. Macgill should not have been bowling to him
Yes but that is cricket and as it happened MacGill did bowl to Sehwag and as it happened he bowled a plate of tripe to him.
He bowled 35 balls that went for 48 against Sehwag.
Including 6 4's and 3 6's.
superstar
26 Dec 2003, 19:59
White isn't ready. He was ordinary for Australia A.
Macgill should be dropped, although I reckon most people are pretty harsh on him. He's a very good bowler, just horribly out of form, and too expensive in a team with Lee and WIlliams as well.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Sadly, MacGill is safe.
Does anyone know any hitmen ? :D
We may as well play Katich as the spinner in Sydney.He looks more dangerous than MacGill.
McAlmanac
26 Dec 2003, 20:53
Originally posted by pazza
I still think it is more likely that they'll play 5 full-time bowlers in Sydney and one of the batsmen goes (probably Martyn). Gives Katich and Gilchrist a better chance of making a heap of runs.
In Test match cricket, batsmen to number 7 have a chance of making a heap of runs every time they go out to bat.
It seems everyone has forgotten how well MacGill has done in the past. Why would you drop a spinner on his home track, with a great track record there, with no obvious replacement? We just have to take the medicine of having a poor pace attack.
ajackett110
26 Dec 2003, 21:10
Yeh, sounds fair to replace MacGill with White, I'll even back it up!
Why wouldn't you drop the leading wicket-taker the 2003 from all countries, for a young leg-spinner that averages low 30's in pura cup that isn't proven yet?
Oh so logical...
C'mon guys, get real, MacGill is the 2nd best spinner in the country, and the team would have less variety if you tried to replace him with another pace bowler, or an unproven, inexperienced spinner.
ScouseCat
26 Dec 2003, 21:16
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Sadly, MacGill is safe.
Until Shane Warne returns in February 2004... 45 days to go. :)
Even though MacGill has done well when Warne has been absent, he's had the likes of McGrath, Gillespie and Lee in the side to keep things tight at the other end, (not so much Lee) which means if he goes for a few runs, it's not noticed as much providing he gets wickets which he has been doing. Unfortunately for MacGill, we desperately needed a spinner to keep things tight today and he simply wasn't up to standard. Don't get me wrong, Sehwag played brilliantly, but MacGill's bowling was nothing short of absolute rubbish. Even Steve Waugh came on and kept things fairly quiet, and managed to jag a key wicket in the process.
How funny was the crowd chanting "Warney" whenever MacGill came onto bowl today?? :D
CarterS
26 Dec 2003, 21:21
Well if you don't give anyone a chance then they'll never be proven, nor experienced won't they?
I'd like to see Hogg get into the side, or failing that White or Hauritz definitely deserve chances. If MacGill continues like he is surely he'll be under a bit of pressure...
wagstaff
26 Dec 2003, 22:04
Originally posted by NorthBoi96
Even on ABC774, this morning, Kerry O'Keefe and the gang, were bagging the sh*te out of him, sayin he was basically absent minded, and wishing he was somewhere else in the field, and he batting was not even up to District Standard.
Actually KOK was defending MacGill of the criticism of his overall play that was coming from co-commentators like Glenn Mitchell today.
I can see where KOK is coming from to an extent - cricket fans in Aust love to get stuck into MacGill more then any other Aust player but in my mind, he's the only bowler Australia have in this Test who's of international standard.
Sure, he's struggled in Adelaide and so far at here but so has Warne over the years... India are the best players of spin going around. MacGill was on a hiding to nothing today coming on when two batsmen were set on a benign pitch.
If there's criticism of MacGill, then there should be criticism of the three pacemen who as a whole were very unimpressive today.
harry_hawka
26 Dec 2003, 22:12
I've never been a fan of the 'Bring Cam White into the side' argument, but I must say it's starting to sound like a good idea. Unfortunately for MacGill, he hasn't had a chance to bowl well because the Indians have obviously made a plan to smash him over the fence whenever possible. He's barely been able to settle in at all this series. But that's where a good cricketer would learn to adjust (Warne is a master at trying something new when the chips are down), and it seems MacGill isn't playing like a good cricketer.
Unfortunately I think whichever spinner comes into the side this series will get smacked around the park, as the Indians have realised that's the best way to get a spinner off his game. So, as much as I'd like to see MacGill replaced, I don't think the bowler coming into the side would be treated with any respect at all (not always a bad thing, but with India in form they have the potential to kill the confidence of a young debutante).
At the moment I'd be more inclined to play an extra batsman, or an all-rounder, in replace of MacGill. It seems at the moment that anything would be better than the current setup.
Cooldude
26 Dec 2003, 22:57
If you have this "drop Macgill for White" thread, you might as well open up a "Drop Williams for Kasprowicz", Williams bowl ten times worse than Macgill today, at least Macgill got a wicket.
Originally posted by Cooldude
If you have this "drop Macgill for White" thread, you might as well open up a "Drop Williams for Kasprowicz", Williams bowl ten times worse than Macgill today, at least Macgill got a wicket.
Williams bowled a heap of short rubbish a metre outside off stump yesterday, especially his spell after tea.
The batsmen couldn't reach all of it, but what they could reach got smacked to the fence.
If he'd been called for a few of those wides, and forced to adjust his line a little, he'd have had figures of 0-120 by stumps.
White isn't ready yet. Keep MacGill for sydney.
Just a few of critisisms of MacGills bowling that he needs to work on IMO:
1. Control
I wonder if he is working hard enough in the nets. Warney didn't take up Leg-Spin until his mid to late teens. Yet he is able to land it on the spot ball one. Now im not saying he has to be that accurate but he bowls to many wide balls and full tossers for the good spinner that he is.
2. Temprement
Gets way to angry to quick. Again comparing him to warney, Warney does get angry but you will often see him smile when he gets hit for a boundry as he is working the batsmen out. MacGill also shows know emotion. Not the kind of bloke that sets his team alight. Now thats ok you cant all be extroverts but sometimes when the chips are down you need to take it upon yourself to show some enthusiasm and lead the team outa the hole it has dug itself.
3. Cricket Brain
He doesnt think out on the field. He rarely sets batsmen up. Gets punished bowling the same delivery to a batsmen who has just smacked him to the boundry. Warne is the best i've seen at outhinking batsmen. It's not all about how far you can spin the ball. Sometimes its about subtle variations of spin that catch out batsmen. It seems to me that Stuey has Plan A but if that doesnt work then he has no Plan B or C.
4. Batting and Fielding
Both these can be improved somewhat with practice. McGrath even though he is still a number 11 has improved significantly in his batting. MacGill's batting may have gotten worse as the years have gone on. MacGills fielding is also hopeless. Now its hard to work on a throwing arm if it isnt that strong in the first place. But he can work on fitness and lateral movement to help him out in the field.
ajackett110
27 Dec 2003, 13:57
Originally posted by CarterS
Well if you don't give anyone a chance then they'll never be proven, nor experienced won't they?
I'd like to see Hogg get into the side, or failing that White or Hauritz definitely deserve chances. If MacGill continues like he is surely he'll be under a bit of pressure...
Hogg, Hauritz and White have not shown enough or done enough to suggest they should be in the Aus Test team IMO. Hogg is close to being dropped from WA team, Hauritz and White are both class acts with age on their side but when they start to dominate the first class scene, that is when they'll come into it.
It's much like Michael Clarke... It's obvious he has the talent, but he needed to string a few good seasons together, and start dominating the competition until he will be given a red-hot chance in the Test team.
As much as I want to see hauritz, white and clarke in the test team, I don't want them rushed in too early so they are playing out of their depth!
ajackett110
27 Dec 2003, 13:58
On top of that, MacGill bowled nicely this morning and picked up another 2 wickets.
Cooldude
27 Dec 2003, 16:19
Originally posted by marcuz
White isn't ready yet. Keep MacGill for sydney.
Just a few of critisisms of MacGills bowling that he needs to work on IMO:
1. Control
I wonder if he is working hard enough in the nets. Warney didn't take up Leg-Spin until his mid to late teens. Yet he is able to land it on the spot ball one. Now im not saying he has to be that accurate but he bowls to many wide balls and full tossers for the good spinner that he is.
Well you can't compare Warne with Macgill, Warne's miles ahead of everyone as far as spin bowling's concerned, he's a natural genius. You can't really call him a traditional leg spinner, coz he's almost like a medium pacer with great control who spins a bit away from the bat, while you'd call Macgill a normal wrist spinner, who will bowl loose ones.
Hard work in the nets doesn't mean much, wrist spinners have always been inaccurate, we're born with that, if you pursue big spin like Macgill does then you will bowl loose ones, but if you wanna be as accurate as Warne or Tiger O'Reilly, you won't turn the ball as much. Warne only became a real accurate bowler when he had all those finger and shoulder operations and can't spin the ball as far as he used to.
If you think Macgill's control is bad, you should look at mine, I can't even land the ball on the pitch.
2. Temprement
Originally posted by marcuz
Gets way to angry to quick. Again comparing him to warney, Warney does get angry but you will often see him smile when he gets hit for a boundry as he is working the batsmen out. MacGill also shows know emotion. Not the kind of bloke that sets his team alight. Now thats ok you cant all be extroverts but sometimes when the chips are down you need to take it upon yourself to show some enthusiasm and lead the team outa the hole it has dug itself.
Warne is possibly the most patient bowler the world has ever seen, not many other leg spinners have the patience that he does. Macgill gets angry and does things, so does other great leg spinners like Abdul Qadir or even Anil Kumble, they all get frustrated at times.
As of Warne, he has the control to just bowl maiden after maiden and bog the batsman down and somehow take a wicket, but he's Warne.
3. Cricket Brain
Originally posted by marcuz
He doesnt think out on the field. He rarely sets batsmen up. Gets punished bowling the same delivery to a batsmen who has just smacked him to the boundry. Warne is the best i've seen at outhinking batsmen. It's not all about how far you can spin the ball. Sometimes its about subtle variations of spin that catch out batsmen. It seems to me that Stuey has Plan A but if that doesnt work then he has no Plan B or C.
Warne is the smartest bowler the game's seen, he's like a spider trapping his prey. I tell ya, a lot of topline spin bowlers don't think either, not even Murali thinks much, he just bowls a few of his big off breaks and bowl a toppie and hope the batsman nicks it or something.
4. Batting and Fielding
Originally posted by marcuz
Both these can be improved somewhat with practice. McGrath even though he is still a number 11 has improved significantly in his batting. MacGill's batting may have gotten worse as the years have gone on. MacGills fielding is also hopeless. Now its hard to work on a throwing arm if it isnt that strong in the first place. But he can work on fitness and lateral movement to help him out in the field.
I reckon McGrath should bat ahead of Macgill, that's how bad Macgill is, but Warne never really become a topline first slip fieldsman until Taylor retired and he had that shoulder recontruction and couldn't bowl for 12 months, so he went to the nets and did a lot of batting and slip catching and improved his game.
It's unfair to compare Macgill to Warne, Warne is daylights ahead of all the modern spin bowlers, quite possibly the greatest of all time, though Grimmett and O'Reily are all in a league of their own (from what I heard about Grimmett, his bowling is very similar to Warne). Some regard Warne as the greatest bowler the game has seen. You just can't compare Macgill with Warne, it's unfair on the bloke.
ARDENSTREETforever
27 Dec 2003, 16:36
Brad Williams this morning: 1 over, 1 for 1
Oh yeah, f*ck Bracken off, Steve Waugh, swings the ball more and bowls faster than him!
Clearly the Selectors should bring in Inness for Bracken, and Hodge for Katich.
Lets have a look at the State by State Break down:
NSW: S.Waugh, S.Katich, N.Bracken, B.Lee, S.MacGill
VIC: NIL!!!
TAS: R.Ponting, even though he lives in NSW
S.A: NIL!!!
WA: A. Gilchrist, B.Williams, J. Langer, D.Martyn
QLD: M.Hayden, A. Bichel
Milenko
27 Dec 2003, 19:56
What about state of origin?
NSW: S.Waugh, N.Bracken, B.Lee, A. Gilchrist,
VIC: B.Williams
TAS: R.Ponting,
S.A: NIL!!!
WA: J. Langer, S Katich, S MacGill
QLD: M.Hayden, A. Bichel
NT: D Martyn
No huge changes really.
The Spornstar
27 Dec 2003, 21:27
Originally posted by CarterS
Well if you don't give anyone a chance then they'll never be proven, nor experienced won't they?
I'd like to see Hogg get into the side, or failing that White or Hauritz definitely deserve chances. If MacGill continues like he is surely he'll be under a bit of pressure...
Look I think getting White in the side would be a little silly at this stage (though hopefully one day he'll make it) but to suggest Hogg is complete lunacy when you look at his shield record and the fact that he may be dropped for WA soon. Ian Harvey would be a much better choice then him, in fact picking Harvey doesn't sound so stupid when you think about it. It'd never happen though.
I wish people would get off this pick White bandwagon - I'm a huge fan but he's a long way off yet.
Black Thunder
27 Dec 2003, 21:42
To drop MacGill would be suicide if it was for another spinner, and going into the Sydney test without a spinner would be suicide itself.
He is without doubt the second best spinner in the land. White, who is very talented is no where near ready to take his place on the test arena. If you think what he Indians are doing against MacGill (who isn't actually bowling that bad), than imagine what they'd do against anyone else.
Originally posted by Black Thunder
To drop MacGill would be suicide if it was for another spinner, and going into the Sydney test without a spinner would be suicide itself.
He is without doubt the second best spinner in the land. White, who is very talented is no where near ready to take his place on the test arena. If you think what he Indians are doing against MacGill (who isn't actually bowling that bad), than imagine what they'd do against anyone else.
Exactly right. I seem to recall one convicted drug cheat getting thumped about worse in India.
Cooldude
28 Dec 2003, 09:15
Originally posted by RIPPER_46
Exactly right. I seem to recall one convicted drug cheat getting thumped about worse in India.
The one convicted drug cheat is about twenty times better a bowler than Macgill, and Macgill is one of the best wrist spinners ever seen.
Fall Out Boy
28 Dec 2003, 10:09
Originally posted by JUBJUB
Does anyone know any hitmen ? :D .
I know one, but he's a pussy.
I'd do the job for nothing, would be a pleasure to take the arrogant little shit (i'm talking MacGill btw ;) ) out.
Dog Town
28 Dec 2003, 12:33
Macgill is struggling but he is still the best we have for the time being.Whites not ready,Hoggs out of form and the rest are not up to it.Only way Macgill would be in trouble is if they went for a batsman who bowls a bit of spin which as was pointed out is madness in Sydney.
Crooked Rain
28 Dec 2003, 23:19
Originally posted by ajackett110
On top of that, MacGill bowled nicely this morning and picked up another 2 wickets.
Yep bring him on for the tale as usual, I know he got Laxman out, but to see him warming up after the fast bowlers had done the early damage was a huge pain in the neck.
No wonder he has a good strike rate. I'm sure Lee, Williams or even Langer blindfolded could've knocked over Knan or Nehra easy.
Stuey goes from ****house to having the figures for the innings.
What a champion!!!!! not. If he was a true champion he would've bowled more than 15 overs.
cr.
Cooldude
29 Dec 2003, 09:19
Originally posted by Crooked Rain
Yep bring him on for the tale as usual, I know he got Laxman out, but to see him warming up after the fast bowlers had done the early damage was a huge pain in the neck.
No wonder he has a good strike rate. I'm sure Lee, Williams or even Langer blindfolded could've knocked over Knan or Nehra easy.
Stuey goes from ****house to having the figures for the innings.
What a champion!!!!! not. If he was a true champion he would've bowled more than 15 overs.
cr.
HA! Macgill's the one who got the first wicket when the quicks couldn't do a crap, and can't bowl more than 15 overs? What the hell are ya talking about, this is a first day pitch, very few spinners would've bowled more than 15 overs.
Warne got a lot of tailenders as well, I don't see you bagging him for that.
Wrist spinners are specialists at cleaning up the tail, if you have a problem with that, then look at England, those guys can't clean up the tail for sh*t and no.9 and 10 kept scoring 50s against them
Originally posted by Crooked Rain
Yep bring him on for the tale as usual, I know he got Laxman out, but to see him warming up after the fast bowlers had done the early damage was a huge pain in the neck.
No wonder he has a good strike rate. I'm sure Lee, Williams or even Langer blindfolded could've knocked over Knan or Nehra easy.
Stuey goes from ****house to having the figures for the innings.
What a champion!!!!! not. If he was a true champion he would've bowled more than 15 overs.
cr.
Williams - 5 wickets : 1 batsman, 4 tailenders
MacGill - 5 wickets : 3 batsmen, 2 tailenders
Yet you have singled out MacGill... :confused: