View Full Version : Don't get me wrong I am a fan but...
...how disappointing as Lee been in this test?
He's been great for Aussie cricket & provided a lot of excitement. However in this test he's been very poor. He's not swinging his yorker (on the odd occasion when he hasn't bowled too short).
If the selectors are serious about winning this series they should drop him for the terribly unlucky Bichel in Sydney.
He hasn't lived up to the hype in this test, simple as that!
He hasn't played much cricket this season and is just returning from injury. If he gets a go on the SCG, we may see him run into form.
Even though he didn't bowl all that well, he was still a contributing force in helping Australia to a winning position. Some of the Indian batsmen who were comfortable in the first two tests suddenly looked decidedly uncomfortable just knowing he was there.
Far too many people on this forum underestimate the true value of an express bowler to the Australian team. Line and length will never upset the Indian batsmen.
Originally posted by Becker
He hasn't played much cricket this season and is just returning from injury. If he gets a go on the SCG, we may see him run into form.
He should be regaining his form & fitness in Shield games, especially when you've got a good bowler like Bichel carrying the drinks.
He should be dropped, but I doubt he will be.
SCRAY72
30 Dec 2003, 07:20
Who will Dizzy replace?
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Who will Dizzy replace?
If Dizzy's 100% fit then he replaces Bracken IMO.
Fall Out Boy
30 Dec 2003, 08:01
Lee is averaging something like 38 with the ball in his last 13 matches.
He has been disappointing for 15 months, not just one week.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Lee is averaging something like 38 with the ball in his last 13 matches.
He has been disappointing for 15 months, not just one week.
He's been injured on and off for at least that long too:(
I agree his form should have been confirmed in shield games, get him back bowling express pace and he's a commodity not many teams have......
Though i can see why he was brought back as well, we're a touch light on in the bowling department this summer.
Fall Out Boy
30 Dec 2003, 08:29
Lee played two first class matches before the test, took 10 wickets @ 34. Surely another one was justified.
I cannot fathom how Lee is considered an automatic selection for Australia.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Lee played two first class matches before the test, took 10 wickets @ 34. Surely another one was justified.
I cannot fathom how Lee is considered an automatic selection for Australia.
Nor can I to be honest!
His express pace can be a great asset but he just bowled too short, especially with the 2nd new ball on day 1.
If he's been injured for 15 months then that's fine, but once you make yourself available then you're judged on your performances. His have been below par. He needs to add some variety, more swing & cut. It'll do his body more good in the long run too.
Cupido13
30 Dec 2003, 08:36
Lee's form in ODI's, along with his early figures in Test cricket, along with the teams record whilst he is in the side (I am not saying that he is responsible for it, but you must admit the win-loss ratio when he plays is pretty damn good) will ensure that he is an automatic selection for a while to come yet.
I agree that he is not world class (when it comes to Test cricket, he is, without question, in one day cricket) however, the replacements at present are no better. When McGrath, Gillespe and Warne are all fit and with the development of some other bowlers being talked about around the traps (Rofe, Tait, if Nicholson continues his recent form, Inness, not likely to get a go but still a good bowler) Lee's spot could come in for some real heavy scrutiny.
Originally posted by Cupido13
I agree that he is not world class (when it comes to Test cricket, he is, without question, in one day cricket) however, the replacements at present are no better.
Bichel is in better form & he's a smarter bowler than Bing. Lee has time to develop the guile reqiured to be world class & until he does he should be selected on merit.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Lee played two first class matches before the test, took 10 wickets @ 34. Surely another one was justified.
I cannot fathom how Lee is considered an automatic selection for Australia.
Aussie selectors possibly figured he come back and bowl 145+ and even if he did not take wickets he would unsettle a few....something that looked badly needed after the AO disaster.
Note the delivery that got Dravid...better yet note Dravid himself, at first glance it looks like he just plays a lazy shot away from his body.....and thats partly true....but his feet are also going backwards, they still don't want to get in line while he's bowling, and he was only clocking 135...it's an aura thing...reputation...yep he goes for runs, but he hits blokes to, and when that yorker is working....well.
Kok has been saying for years "Aus selectors love the extra Yard of pace" and they do....i'd say it stems from the fact that a couple were playing when the Windies were terrorizing the world.
Like Becker said we underestimate the value of an express/or perceived express bowler......they're not that much fun to face:eek:
Fall Out Boy
30 Dec 2003, 08:58
Originally posted by Zyban
Like Becker said we underestimate the value of an express/or perceived express bowler......they're not that much fun to face:eek:
Ask any test batsman whether they'd prefer to face McGrath/Pollock or Lee.
I guarantee every single one would choose Lee, without hesitation.
Originally posted by Zyban
Aussie selectors possibly figured he come back and bowl 145+ and even if he did not take wickets he would unsettle a few....something that looked badly needed after the AO disaster.
Note the delivery that got Dravid...better yet note Dravid himself, at first glance it looks like he just plays a lazy shot away from his body.....and thats partly true....but his feet are also going backwards, they still don't want to get in line while he's bowling, and he was only clocking 135...it's an aura thing...reputation...yep he goes for runs, but he hits blokes to, and when that yorker is working....well.
Kok has been saying for years "Aus selectors love the extra Yard of pace" and they do....i'd say it stems from the fact that a couple were playing when the Windies were terrorizing the world.
Like Becker said we underestimate the value of an express/or perceived express bowler......they're not that much fun to face:eek:
He's bowled poorly in this test, don't lose sight of that fact.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Ask any test batsman whether they'd prefer to face McGrath/Pollock or Lee.
I guarantee every single one would choose Lee, without hesitation.
Of course... but you're comparing him to to of the best stranglers going aroung, Lee ain't ever going to be a strangler, this does not mean that threatening pace is not an asset mate.....
What we are missing is the Mcgrath type....but why wouldn't you, thats why Bichel as a line and length man would have been the perfect foil for Lee in this test.....
Originally posted by Zyban
Of course... but you're comparing him to to of the best stranglers going aroung, Lee ain't ever going to be a strangler, this does not mean that threatening pace is not an asset mate.....
What we are missing is the Mcgrath type....but why wouldn't you, thats why Bichel as a line and length man would have been the perfect foil for Lee in this test.....
No-one's saying his pace isn't an asset, but I'd like to have seen him in better form before he was picked in the test side.
I agree that Bichel would've been very valuable in this test, his MCG record is good.
Perhaps Williams was fortunate to be picked. He's done pretty well in this test but perhaps McGill,Bracken,Lee & Bichel would've been a more balanced & varied attack.
scottywiper
30 Dec 2003, 09:15
Lee has been ordinary since he lost his ability to swing the ball away. The combination of swing and pace will undo any batsman. But when it is just pace, the batsman will soon get used to it.
Originally posted by BT
He's bowled poorly in this test, don't lose sight of that fact.
I haven't and i stated it yesterday, i don't think on form he should be picked for the 4th test.
But i can see the rational of picking him for this one, and if he can get his pace back i can see the logic in continuing to pick him.
Originally posted by Zyban
I haven't and i stated it yesterday, i don't think on form he should be picked for the 4th test.
But i can see the rational of picking him for this one, and if he can get his pace back i can see the logic in continuing to pick him.
His pace isn't the problem for mine. He's bowling too short & where has his swinging yorker gone? He hasn't bowled smart for mine.
We saw with Shoaib yesterday what a dangerous delivery it can be to any batsman.
Originally posted by BT
His pace isn't the problem for mine. He's bowling too short & where has his swinging yorker gone? He hasn't bowled smart for mine.
We saw with Shoaib yesterday what a dangerous delivery it can be to any batsman.
I think the pace is a prob, but i agree about the yorker and asked that question yestereday as well......
I don't mind the short stuff at pace but he has to have the yorker to counter it......like i said did he even bowl one in this game, he started to get some swing back into the Goul late yesterday....would have been the perfect time to throw one in and maybe he was trying, but they just ended up length balls two of which Ganguly dispatched the other nearly uprooted off, maybe we just expect to much to soon and indeed maybe he should have been held back till the 4th.
Originally posted by Zyban
maybe he should have been held back till the 4th.
On that I think we can agree!
At his best I'd have him in but i'm disappointed Bichel was dropped for him when he's obviously not in top form.
SCRAY72
30 Dec 2003, 09:39
Originally posted by BT
If Dizzy's 100% fit then he replaces Bracken IMO.
Williams and Lee are realistically the same type of bowler. Williams is probably bowling better at the moment. Bracken is supposed to be in the side to add variety.
Selectors should bite the bullet and drop Lee.
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Williams and Lee are realistically the same type of bowler. Williams is probably bowling better at the moment. Bracken is supposed to be in the side to add variety.
Selectors should bite the bullet and drop Lee.
While I think variety is a good thing, I don't think the fact that Bracken is a left armer should affect the decision. He's taken 3 wickets in this test. If it were a dead rubber I'd be all for Bracken as it'd be great for his development.
Either way, if Dizzy's fit I'd have him & Bichel in for Lee & Bracken.
EssJayW
30 Dec 2003, 10:46
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Ask any test batsman whether they'd prefer to face McGrath/Pollock or Lee.
I guarantee every single one would choose Lee, without hesitation.
So what does this prove. That McGrath and Pollock are better bowlers than Lee. Of course they are.
Lee is struggling after an injury, where his action has slightly changed which has reduced his pace. In the selectors and captains opinion, Lee is the best available strike bowler for Australia. I will go with them.
Cheers
SJW
:) :) :)
beckybiglands
30 Dec 2003, 12:08
IMO drop Lee and Bracken
Bring back Bichel and Dizzy
Cooldude
30 Dec 2003, 12:12
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Ask any test batsman whether they'd prefer to face McGrath/Pollock or Lee.
I guarantee every single one would choose Lee, without hesitation.
Nah, I prefer Pollock
120 kph short of a length just outside off that you can shoulder-arm and leave alone most of the time, or 140 kph thunderbolts targeting your ribs and hitting your head.
Pollock hasn't been bowling that brillantly in the West Indies series
Originally posted by EssJayW
Lee is struggling after an injury
Exactly & that's why he shouldn't be in the test team at the moment.
He should be sharpening himself up in the Pura Cup.
When he gets himself right, get him straight back in!
Cupido13
30 Dec 2003, 12:17
Originally posted by Cooldude
Nah, I prefer Pollock
120 kph short of a length just outside off that you can shoulder-arm and leave alone most of the time, or 140 kph thunderbolts targeting your ribs and hitting your head.
Pollock hasn't been bowling that brillantly in the West Indies series
Not that the question was ask any Test player. I can't remember anyway called Cooldude strolling out to the wicket at no. 5 for Australia, can any of you guys?
Originally posted by Cupido13
Not that the question was ask any Test player. I can't remember anyway called Cooldude strolling out to the wicket at no. 5 for Australia, can any of you guys?
Hehehe, good point!
EssJayW
30 Dec 2003, 12:27
Originally posted by BT
Exactly & that's why he shouldn't be in the test team at the moment.
He should be sharpening himself up in the Pura Cup.
When he gets himself right, get him straight back in!
Mate, the selectors pick him, the captain gives him the new ball, so they obviously think he is the best available at the moment. Lee is defineately struggling but still has the ability to intimidate and get vital wickets. eg. Sehwag and Dravid.
Personally, I look forward to having Ooh Aah and Dizzy back, with Lee and Warne after them.
Cheers
SJW
:) :) :)
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
I cannot fathom how Lee is considered an automatic selection for Australia.
I really do wish people would pay attention to what is going on. Selection is about horses for courses. Gillespie, Bichel, etc are good bowlers, nobody is arguing that. However, the thing Indian batsmen hate the most is pace and bounce, that is what was missing in the Adelaide test, and that is why Lee was chosen.
Originally posted by Becker
However, the thing Indian batsmen hate the most is pace and bounce, that is what was missing in the Adelaide test, and that is why Lee was chosen.
But did his return have the desired impact?
Cooldude
30 Dec 2003, 13:54
Originally posted by Cupido13
Not that the question was ask any Test player. I can't remember anyway called Cooldude strolling out to the wicket at no. 5 for Australia, can any of you guys?
I guess if your nickname's Cupido, you'd make a smartass comment every now and again, or most of the time