View Full Version : Andrew Bichel Quote
Fall Out Boy
3 Feb 2004, 19:26
"Maybe there are double standards" - Andrew Bichel.
Say goodbye to your career Andy, can't have you highlighting the shady nature of selection in this country.
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
"Maybe there are double standards" - Andrew Bichel.
Say goodbye to your career Andy, can't have you highlighting the shady nature of selection in this country.
Exactly...Just ask Dean Jones.
He is wrong. There is not much "Maybe"
Dropping Bichel is an absolute disgrace. He is one player who consistently puts in 100%. Too much politics in Cricket Australia I am afraid. I think we need more representative selectors.
Why are they still perisiting with Martyn - ask Deano :eek:
Kapow!!!
3 Feb 2004, 19:54
Unfortunately Bic won't be back for that. Marto in, Katto in. Disgraceful. Kaspa I've wanted to see in for a while, even if it was for Bic!
that decision is an absolute disgrace... bic has been unjustly cut from both the test and 1 day sides, and i am almost certain that his international career is now over... if he can't get a game now with mcgrath and warne not playing, when is he going to get another shot, especially when blokes like williams and bracken are preferred ahead of him...
Originally posted by Kapow!!!
Unfortunately Bic won't be back for that.
Why ?
Cartman had an out burst at the selectors after being dropped for the first test,yet got recalled for the second test.
ViperV10
3 Feb 2004, 21:00
Originally posted by w00dy
that decision is an absolute disgrace... bic has been unjustly cut from both the test and 1 day sides
Not if you look at the stats....
I do agree that it is a bit disheartening that Bichel has been dropped after one bad series (remember he went bloody brilliantly in the world cup) while Martyn has had an equally useless series...but has not even shown determination like Bichel has....or ability in the field.
Looking at his stats, it is fair to assume that he needed a good game last match to stay in...unfortunately he couldn't manage much when we were on fire with the ball.
Crooked Rain
3 Feb 2004, 21:19
Originally posted by phatandphreaky
"Maybe there are double standards" - Andrew Bichel.
Say goodbye to your career Andy, can't have you highlighting the shady nature of selection in this country.
Yep Bic refuses to be an ACB puppet and will probably pay the price. He is not one of the media darlings therefore has not been given every opportunity to prove his worth. The guy is a splendid new ball bowler for his state, but has never been given an opportunity to prove his worth with the new pill for Australia even with injuries to other players. When Bic opened the bowling for QLD this year on a flat Adelaide track he got 10 wickets. You get the feeling they'd go for Marto with the new ball ahead of Bic if it came down to it. He has been unfairly pigeon-holed which is probably a legacy of bowling behind the likes of McGrath and Dizzy for most of his Test career. But to see the likes of Bracken and Cartman jump ahead of him as new ball bowlers, especially in the Tests is downright disgraceful.
One thing's for sure Queensland will be the stronger.
Long live Bic!
cr.
dan warna
3 Feb 2004, 21:38
Bix should be dropped on current form.
but then why is lee retained in the test side?
even martyn has been averaging 40ish in the test side, which, while not brilliant certainly a cut above the duration slats and m.waugh were retained in the test side.
it seems the rules are different for different players.
as for bracken getting selected, that was generally one out of the blue (literally as well as figuratively) he certainly is an ok bowler, but rofe, bix, inness and a swag of other first class bowlers are better credentialed than him (same with clarke, to a lesser degree)
it does seem there is a smoother path to the national side if your a NSW, and it does seem that there is additional protection if you are 'friends' with the in crowd.
Lehmann is clearly the outstanding domestic first class player in Aus along with Hayden, but it took till he was nearly 30 to crack the side, because lesser players such as slater, Taylor, m.waugh couldn't be dislodged.
if lehmann had the run m.waugh did, im sure we'd have seen another aussie crack 10,000 runs, instead of relatively average return from m.waugh.
Black Thunder
3 Feb 2004, 21:45
well this may just be the biggest hint yet that the selectors are gonna take Kasper to Sri Lanka - not an overly bad move in my book, but i would prefer Bichel.
I still think they'll take one of Williams and Bracken, probably Williams.
They'll take one of Bichel and Kasprowicz, now it looks as though that may be Kasprowicz.
And if Lee continues to show the reasonable form he has in the one dayers, he'll go. Otherwise they'll take one of Rofe, Inness or Harvey, most probably Rofe based on his form.
I'm majorly over the run Bracken has been getting - and just on that, where he's been for the one dayers??
The whole selection process is becoming a bit of a farce.
How about a selector from each state with a chairman?
At a cricket club I played with we had 8 on the selection comittee. There was some doozies and late nights but in general, personal bias was 1 vote in 8, not 1 in 3. The best sides usually got selected.
Black Thunder
3 Feb 2004, 21:48
Originally posted by EssJayW
The whole selection process is becoming a bit of a farce.
i wouldn't say that.
the fact we've been the premier cricketing team in the world for the best part of a decade now is testemant to the fact that the best teams have generally been picked......
Originally posted by Black Thunder
i wouldn't say that.
the fact we've been the premier cricketing team in the world for the best part of a decade now is testemant to the fact that the best teams have generally been picked......
I added an edit.
Looking from the outside in, I hate to admit it, but there seems to have been some blue bias over the years.
Black Thunder
3 Feb 2004, 21:54
Originally posted by EssJayW
Looking from the outside in, I hate to admit it, but there seems to have been some blue bias over the years.
there probably has been.
most of the "shock" selections over the years have been NSW guys being picked in the team, but i don't think its near as bad as what the Vics would like to think it is. sometimes i think they just need something to whinge about ;)
Originally posted by Black Thunder
there probably has been.
most of the "shock" selections over the years have been NSW guys being picked in the team, but i don't think its near as bad as what the Vics would like to think it is. sometimes i think they just need something to whinge about ;)
I am one of these odd people (most will agree with that statement alone) that was born in NSW, lived for 17 years in Vic and now live in QLD.
I obviously followed the blues in my young days, but did change to the Vics. I am still with the Vics. Will never barrack for anything QLD.
So some type of loyalty always told me that the Blue Bias was just a myth, but it seems to be more than that.
BTW, We all know the Vics love a whinge. Its part of the fun.:D
Originally posted by EssJayW
The whole selection process is becoming a bit of a farce.
How about a selector from each state with a chairman?
At a cricket club I played with we had 8 on the selection comittee. There was some doozies and late nights but in general, personal bias was 1 vote in 8, not 1 in 3. The best sides usually got selected.
Couldn't agree more!! it is so blatantly obvious Bic is not popular with the powers that be. if he had the backing from Ponting that Lee and Martyn received he would be opening the bowling.
I also loved the NSW fan banner saying "Play Bichel or I'm streaking"
Bichel for PM
Originally posted by Rex
Couldn't agree more!! it is so blatantly obvious Bic is not popular with the powers that be. if he had the backing from Ponting that Lee and Martyn received he would be opening the bowling.
I also loved the NSW fan banner saying "Play Bichel or I'm streaking"
Bichel for PM
I dont always tend to blame the Captains. Do they really get much of a say in the actual selection of the team. I dont think so. But they can have a big influence on the performance on the ground. Look at Hayden with SW, and Symonds in the ODI arena with Ponting.
Whatever happens to Bichel in the future, he and his fans know that he always gave everything when he played.
BTW. Would love to see Symonds get a go in the tests.
str8khlr
3 Feb 2004, 22:48
Forget about bias and lee and marto, etc...and just look at bichel - his figures have been fairly ordinary in this series, haven't they? And IMO, our bowling has played a large part in the problem of us 'just getting by' against India...come on, their middle order isn't that good that we shouldn't be able to get past Laxman, something's wrong there. Bichel's figures:
Mat O M R W Ave Best 4w 5w SR Econ
6 37 2 197 3 65.66 1-31 - - 74.0 5.32
Look at Gillespie's figures:
Mat O M R W Ave Best 4w 5w SR Econ
6 58 3 252 6 42.00 2-21 - - 58.0 4.34
That's not much better. He hasn't been good enough. Only Williams has done the job.
Crooked Rain
3 Feb 2004, 23:08
Originally posted by Black Thunder
there probably has been.
most of the "shock" selections over the years have been NSW guys being picked in the team, but i don't think its near as bad as what the Vics would like to think it is. sometimes i think they just need something to whinge about ;)
Even when I was a small boy I could recall the NSW bias. Only Peter "Who" could 've come from NSW. And there have been plenty of Blue Bolters since.
Andy had to take a huge amount of wickets for QLD before he was considered worthy enough to be even a mr fix it by the selectors.
Lets put this in perspective people, you're comparing apples to oranges. Go back to the TVS Cup in India where Bich had a terrible series.
Bich = useless TVS Cup, useless VB series = gone
Marto = solid TVS Cup, useless VB series = almost gone
Ipso facto if Marto has a useless VB finals series he deserves the same treatment as Bich.
Crooked Rain
4 Feb 2004, 04:21
Bichel might have played six games for only three wickets, but of a possible 60 overs he only bowled 37 largely due to Ponting not giving him a decent go and one of the games being washed out. Martyn and Lee on the other hand were given every opportunity to shine following a period of terrible form. They were promoted if you like. Lee was given the new ball and Martyn was made opener. The double standards are clear to me.
cr.
Bombers_Forever
4 Feb 2004, 06:04
He is right.
Maybe he needs to be a NSW player to be a protected species. How many chances has Lee got?
dan warna
4 Feb 2004, 06:47
The reason aus has been doing so well is because of the depth of talent in the country.
we could serious field 3 international teams and the third team would still be competitive (see a thread about 2 weeks ago) with even the best sides, and be at least ahead of middle teams like the brits and the windians.
That has allowed players to be overlooked like hayden.
in all seriousness Hodge, while not good enough for much of his career for a serious consideration for the Australian side, would be a walk up start in the batting line up for any country (with the exception of India, and possibly RSA, although their batting is more brittle and is not as strong as their attack)
love, elliot, hussey snr, cox, lehmann, Maher, hodge, Blewett, DeVenuto, Watson, North, Symonds, harvey etc, would walk into the brit line up, Its a testament to the quality of Aus cricket and the national pride we have, that Aussies would rather stay and play for a chance to wear the gold and green, than go and qualify for the NZ of Brit or Bok side, where they would be pretty much guaranteed a spot.
you only have to look at their county comp to see Aussies, indians, boxs and the odd lankan dominate the stats.
goaldrush
4 Feb 2004, 07:06
He will cop the roth of Ricky Ponting and possibly the selecters.
I think that they have made the biggest error and they should have dropped Martyn.
Wicked Lester
4 Feb 2004, 07:30
Bichel had a terrific World Cup - it was no doubt the high point of his international career.
He also gives 100% everytime he wears Australian colours. That much is not in question, but (along with several others) his recent form has been pretty ordinary.
The point that distinguishes Bichel from Lee, or Martyn, is that Bichel (nearly 34 now) is not a prospect for the next World Cup. In fact if Australian cricket is to avoid an ageing catastrophe he is not even a prospect (test or ODI) a year or so out from now.
Certainly not if McGrath (also 34) returns, along with Warne and a prematurely ageing Gillespie.
Kaspa is 31 and clearly not a 'youth' selection either but I suspect he has been selected with the tours of Sri Lanka and India in mind. Why? Because he's the best exponent of swing bowling in Australia and swing is crucial to our chances on the Subcontinent.
Think of Kaspa as a possible 'bridging' option until a Tait or Rofe is ready.
As for Bichel the end has been nigh for some time now. His test and ODI records are mediocre at best.
Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But just ask Sam Trimble, Ian Brayshaw, Lehmann, Siddons, Jones and countless others about fair. If Bich was 27 he'd have a genuine axe to grind, but in truth at almost 34 he must have seen the writing on the wall. Australian cricket cannot afford to carry two 34 year old fast bowlers for too long and personally I'd opt for McGrath.
The selectors have to choose a team not only for now, but for the future as well.
Sorry Bich, but you're not part of future plans. Thanks for your lionhearted service to Australian cricket.
Originally posted by Wicked Lester
The selectors have to choose a team not only for now, but for the future as well.
Sorry Bich, but you're not part of future plans. Thanks for your lionhearted service to Australian cricket.
You do make a fair point but...
Why would the selectors drop him now with only the finals to go?
For god sake there is only two maybe three matches left and if you want to start in a new direction then just dont pick him to tour sri lanka. The timing of this stinks to me.
Originally posted by Wicked Lester
Bichel had a terrific World Cup - it was no doubt the high point of his international career.
He also gives 100% everytime he wears Australian colours. That much is not in question, but (along with several others) his recent form has been pretty ordinary.
The point that distinguishes Bichel from Lee, or Martyn, is that Bichel (nearly 34 now) is not a prospect for the next World Cup. In fact if Australian cricket is to avoid an ageing catastrophe he is not even a prospect (test or ODI) a year or so out from now.
Certainly not if McGrath (also 34) returns, along with Warne and a prematurely ageing Gillespie.
Kaspa is 31 and clearly not a 'youth' selection either but I suspect he has been selected with the tours of Sri Lanka and India in mind. Why? Because he's the best exponent of swing bowling in Australia and swing is crucial to our chances on the Subcontinent.
Think of Kaspa as a possible 'bridging' option until a Tait or Rofe is ready.
As for Bichel the end has been nigh for some time now. His test and ODI records are mediocre at best.
Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But just ask Sam Trimble, Ian Brayshaw, Lehmann, Siddons, Jones and countless others about fair. If Bich was 27 he'd have a genuine axe to grind, but in truth at almost 34 he must have seen the writing on the wall. Australian cricket cannot afford to carry two 34 year old fast bowlers for too long and personally I'd opt for McGrath.
The selectors have to choose a team not only for now, but for the future as well.
Sorry Bich, but you're not part of future plans. Thanks for your lionhearted service to Australian cricket.
Top post.
I agree with all that and am a Bichel fan but he's just not bowling well right now and we can't be confident of getting a decent 10 overs out of him before the Indians, who clearly have no respect for his bowling, smash him out of the attack.
Gillespie, Williams and Lee are clearly more deserving of a spot tomorrow night so the 4th bowler will be out of Harvey, Hogg and Kaspa. I'm tipping Harvey.
Why Martyn has had so many more chances god only knows - perhaps if Bevan had not been injured Martyn might have been dropped by now, probably not though. If he fails in this first final and we lose, he HAS to go.
I think the selectors are simply still searching for the answer. Given Gillespie and Lee are automatic selections (no matter what people's opinion of Lee may be, he's there for at least another year of two), and regardless of the prospect of McGrath (we just don't know if or for how long he will return to form), two more fast bowlers are needed. Williams may be one (though his test form is still unconvincing), but Bichel and Bracken have been trialled and found wanting.
I'm not convinced the selectors have faith in Kasprowicz - it's more like "Let's see how this one goes." He's in some form, he has the experience, and he's showed form on the Subcontinent.
But I think it's more an act of (slight) desperation by a selection team who still haven't settled on a bowling line-up they like for Sri Lanka and India.
I wouldn't rule Bichel out, though. If he bowls well for Queensland, he's still in the mix.
CatManDo
4 Feb 2004, 09:54
Interesting that no-one is blaming Bichel for speaking his mind, yet so many fell over themselves to lambast Williams for doing the exact same thing.
Double standards?
The invisible mullet
4 Feb 2004, 10:14
You can't blame Bichel for speaking out but really he can't back it up with his form for some time.
Originally posted by RogerC
I'm not convinced the selectors have faith in Kasprowicz - it's more like "Let's see how this one goes."
Definitely true. There's a stat that says, in his career, Kaspa has never played more than 3 tests consecutively. Something like that. His career went down the toilet when Lee was given the red carpet from his 1st test match.
Wicked Lester, top post, I think you're right, unfortunately. Bichel has been one of the unluckiest players in Aussie cricket for some time (along with Lehmann I think).
I think Kaspa can count himself a shoe-in for Sri Lanka selection....getting a game there is a whole other thing though.
Crooked Rain
4 Feb 2004, 17:23
Originally posted by Wicked Lester
Bichel had a terrific World Cup - it was no doubt the high point of his international career.
He also gives 100% everytime he wears Australian colours. That much is not in question, but (along with several others) his recent form has been pretty ordinary.
The point that distinguishes Bichel from Lee, or Martyn, is that Bichel (nearly 34 now) is not a prospect for the next World Cup. In fact if Australian cricket is to avoid an ageing catastrophe he is not even a prospect (test or ODI) a year or so out from now.
Certainly not if McGrath (also 34) returns, along with Warne and a prematurely ageing Gillespie.
Kaspa is 31 and clearly not a 'youth' selection either but I suspect he has been selected with the tours of Sri Lanka and India in mind. Why? Because he's the best exponent of swing bowling in Australia and swing is crucial to our chances on the Subcontinent.
Think of Kaspa as a possible 'bridging' option until a Tait or Rofe is ready.
As for Bichel the end has been nigh for some time now. His test and ODI records are mediocre at best.
Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. But just ask Sam Trimble, Ian Brayshaw, Lehmann, Siddons, Jones and countless others about fair. If Bich was 27 he'd have a genuine axe to grind, but in truth at almost 34 he must have seen the writing on the wall. Australian cricket cannot afford to carry two 34 year old fast bowlers for too long and personally I'd opt for McGrath.
The selectors have to choose a team not only for now, but for the future as well.
Sorry Bich, but you're not part of future plans. Thanks for your lionhearted service to Australian cricket.
Martyn is no spring chicken either. But maybe he's one of the boys - Ponting's boys. Tony Greig was just on Sports Today (Sydney) and hinted that Ponting had a lot to do with Bichel's axing for the finals and most probably forever.
BTW, Bichel is 34 in August, he's not there yet.
Originally posted by Crooked Rain
Martyn is no spring chicken either. But maybe he's one of the boys - Ponting's boys. Tony Greig was just on Sports Today (Sydney) and hinted that Ponting had a lot to do with Bichel's axing for the finals and most probably forever.
BTW, Bichel is 34 in August, he's not there yet.
Who did greigy suggest was getting the easy ride in the bowling dept? What did he say in regards to Ponting conspiring to have him outed? i wish i heard it.
IceTemple
4 Feb 2004, 20:03
Just some stats for your browsing and arguments:
Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w
Bichel (overall)
Test:
19 355 71 16.90 0 1 58 5/60 32.24 1
ODI:
67 471 64 20.47 0 1 78 7/20 31.57 2
Lee
Test:
37 593 62* 19.76 0 2 139 5/47 31.66 4
ODI:
79 346 51* 14.41 0 1 145 5/27 21.71 3
Kasprowicz
Test:
17 234 25 13.00 0 0 47 7/36 37.00 2
ODI:
18 62 28* 31.00 0 0 24 3/50 32.25 0
Williams
Test:
3 21 10* 10.50 0 0 9 4/53 37.66 0
ODI:
20 27 13* 13.50 0 0 30 5/22 22.53 2
Frightening, isn't it. Get beyond McGrath and Gillespie, and the next prospects in the fast bowling department can't muster an average below 30.
Crooked Rain
4 Feb 2004, 22:11
Originally posted by RogerC
Frightening, isn't it. Get beyond McGrath and Gillespie, and the next prospects in the fast bowling department can't muster an average below 30.
Getting the new ball occasionally would've helped a few on that list especially Bic - a new ball specialist for his state.
cr.
Originally posted by Crooked Rain
Getting the new ball occasionally would've helped a few on that list especially Bic - a new ball specialist for his state.
cr.
And therein lies the problem.
Bichel has taken heaps of wickets at State Level - just about the most successful over the last few years. Everyone expected him to excel at International level - it never happened. Sure, can't deny he always put in 100%, but the results were rarely there. The days of bags of wickets (say, over two) were a rarity, rather than the norm. He was basically half a level below International. As someone previously said - his figures have been mediocre at best. He never really cemented his spot, for exactly that reason - he never "got the runs on the board".
Crooked Rain
4 Feb 2004, 23:16
Watching the likes of Bracken and Williams just leap-frog him to the new ball, particularly in Test cricket, must have been disheartening for him.
Just plain wrong actually.
The invisible mullet
5 Feb 2004, 09:20
Bichel had a great opportunity to cement his place in the test lineup this year but didn't take it. His bowling was dreadful in Brisbane and while better in Adelaide he demonstrated that he takes the odd wicket but he is unable to contain batting lineups let alone strike some fear into them. In the one day matches Ponting's lack of confidence in his ability meant the he rarely completed his full complement of overs.
Marissa16
5 Feb 2004, 13:27
Originally posted by The invisible mullet
You can't blame Bichel for speaking out but really he can't back it up with his form for some time.
Well Damian Martyn hasn't been in form for a while and you dont see him being dropped.
Cooldude
5 Feb 2004, 15:18
Can understand why Bichel's being so upset, he's played two poor series and has been dropped. Lee's been playing poorly in the test team for 2 years and was only dropped very briefly.
All those lionhearted efforts he's put in for his country when his team's in trouble seem to have counted for nothing in the end
You have to say there IS double standards there.
corporal
5 Feb 2004, 15:38
Its a strange quote from Bichel considering his motto was "Play every test as it is your last"
rchowell
5 Feb 2004, 19:46
Originally posted by corporal
Its a strange quote from Bichel considering his motto was "Play every test as it is your last"Obviously his philosophy for one dayers is different ;)