Salary Cap Overhaul

[Treikhis]

Hi fellow Doggies and other visitors,

I am a new member to BigFooty having viewed the Bulldogs board for a few months now and thought I should be part of it. As a lifelong bulldog supporter still living locally in the Western Suburbs, I get frustrated by the constant reminder of our perilous existance in this competition. I know all clubs are now behind financial help for clubs currently struggling (appears those with smaller supporter bases), but for how long? - till the current TV rights deal is complete?

With compounding growth we will never be able to compete with the larger clubs, just like Australia will never be economically as powerful as the USA. So to help us survive something needs to be done to allow us to be competitive in the competition we play.

As hard as it is to say a decision will need to be made in the future to either remove struggling clubs or come up with a solution to make the playing field even more even.

I beleive the current administration under Cambell Rose's guidance has done a great job - but help is needed to extend the life of this club into the future. There only so many oranges on our tree and you can only squeeze so much orange juice out of an orange.

Having said that - back to the subject matter. I am curious to know what others think of a solution to some of the problems we face as a club competing with others with bigger budgets to work from.

Imagine a league where there is not only a Player Salary Cap - but a football department salary cap. I say this because of the massive blow out in football department costs as a result of the growing number of assistant coaches etc compared to what the game had 10 years ago. Is the game any better for it? Some would say that as a result of the intense analytical approach the game is not as great to watch with zoning and cheap stats under no pressure till the play reaches the forward line.


Two options could be considered with relation to salary caps and I will play them out to you.

Option 1 - Player Salary Cap continues as it is. Also introduce a separate football department salary cap for coaches, administrators, other professional assistants etc.

Option 2 - (My preferred) combine the two above and let clubs spend where they like. We will really see the value a coach has to a side or all the assistants versus spending up big on just players and having no coaches (as an extreme). It would add another dimension. (I have images of Tony Jewell in the coaching box with one other person tearing his hair out, compared to today where there is a cast of thousands). Injured players could back up as a spotters on match day and play coaching roles etc??

I hope you can see where I am coming from and will be interested to see how you view this.

[Bloody-Redhead]

Can we compete?

Yes, but only for fleeting moments through getting young kids.
The problem is that we can't attract 'A grade' players here, and we can't compete with other bids when opponents raid our 'A grade' players.

Do you think we will garner any attention from the AFL to realistically allow us to win a premiership as we are now?
Brisbane and Sydney are the clubs they want to help first, followed by a mix of Interstaters and 'Big' Vic clubs.
We are at the bottom of the list.

If you look at the trend I would argue that the AFL is less interested in 'keeping a level playing field' then they have in quite a while : (Fair and Equitable Competition -comment has disappeared hasn't it)

Either we become a NT team in 2006 when the competitive balance gets the chop or we disappear full stop.
Apparently its already been decided 'For the greater good of footy'

You forgot one other option that people can't realistically take:

Seek entry into the VFL. That way we can survive provided we can negotiate our debt. That way the AFL gets rid of us as a AFL and Vic club (which is what they are trying to do) along with the Roos and possibly Melbourne, and they get their Interstate clubs start from scratch for their National game.

Your options aren't bad but you forget a couple of things:

Freo can offer a McDonalds franchise outside the cap to Bell
The TV empries wanted ratings so they helped get Leigh Matthews to Brisbane, likewise Barrasi and Lockett to Sydney
Richmond have large property interests which appealed to Brown.
Essendon used to pay 45 grand a year to a players Girl for her being a company secretary (working 2 hours a month)
Likewise for most other clubs.

We can't compete with that at all, so even matching the salary cap won't save us (and by making losses we obviously can't).

I like elements of your options BUT the AFL has no real reason to fully evaluate payments outside the cap.

I wouldn't actually suggest following this line of inquiry on this site though, people have a hard time seeing where we are heading and dispise any protests telling them whats going to happen.

[whythelongface]

Originally posted by Bloody-Redhead

Either we become a NT team in 2006 when the competitive balance gets the chop or we disappear full stop.
Apparently its already been decided 'For the greater good of footy'

I wouldn't actually suggest following this line of inquiry on this site though, people have a hard time seeing where we are heading and dispise any protests telling them whats going to happen.

No, no, no BRH....again you take things out of context. People are not suggesting that we don't need to look at other options to keep the Bulldogs alive. What we detest is your attitude. You are very negative towards the future of the bulldogs as they currently stand (fair enough- each to ones own opinion) and you seem to think that the bulldogs should just be a team that is supported by the western suburbs of Melbourne. You despise the fact that the VFL is now national as it means that the identity of your team has changed.

You want the Bulldogs to return to the VFL - what good is that. I mean Footscray vs Port Melbourne doesn't seem to enticing (apart from maybe a handful of people). Why not have a team that plays a few more games in Darwin to attract a supporter base up there. The team will still play a majority of its matches in Melbourne but may have 3 to 4 games a year in Darwin. You then have a team that still has support in Melbourne yet has a new supporter base in Darwin (attracting new sponsorship, members blah blah blah). You obviously don't like this idea as it goes against your belief in what is happening to the game and the team that you once were (and probably still are) so passionate about.

From what i gather your main concern is that there will be a permanent move to Darwin. You obviously seem to have some inside information as you quote "Apparently it has already been decided. For the greater good of footy" (referring to a permanent move to Darwin). Who is your source? A number of questions need to be asked if this were the case. One of those questions would be does Darwin have a large enough population to have a football team in the AFL on a permanent basis? I wouldn't think so - a town with a population of only 100,000 people.in such an isolated area. Can't see it happening on a permanent basis. To many costs involved for flying teams to and from Darwin etc. etc and not enough supporters for this to happen. In all likelihood this would only be a semi permanent move.

BRH i don't know who your source is or where you get your info from but before you suggest it is a definite decision please provide us with some facts.


I will again be interested to hear your rebuttal.

[Treikhis]

Rather than getting into where the dogs should play, will play and if they will be around in the future etc (really out of our control and in the best hands). Is anyone interested in submitting a balanced approach to buidling a team and football department with a 12 - 15 million dollar budget in this suggested model. What do you think would be a successful formula mixing player payments vs coaches and support staff. What is the real value of coaches vs players if you had a choice.

[Adrian Shelton]

Cut the cap by a 1/3, everyone survives. What are the players gonna do, strike?

[Treikhis]

Originally posted by Adrian Shelton
Cut the cap by a 1/3, everyone survives. What are the players gonna do, strike? '

I like it nice and simple. There is too much money in this competition going to waste.

[Bloody-Redhead]

Cut the cap by a 1/3, everyone survives. What are the players gonna do, strike?

Totally agree... But the AFL won't and that is a major problem.

2) Could also use gate-share agreements again... Likewise tha AFL won't do so....


3) I suggested the VFL as the *last resort* over moving *most* of our games interstate, thats keeping the club open to supporters much more every weekend now isn't it?

*Take note of the * as the key components of my arguement.


Treikhis (Some merged name of Star Trekkies + Khan (movie II)?)
Regarding the coach V players issue on salary cap I could not say, BUT for coach V players in terms of costs you just have to look at our club:

Saved money by taking Rohde (compared to Plough or anyone else)
Saved money off of Brown plus the 2003 15% salary cuts.
In terms of overall cost we cut more down in terms of players BUT when you consider the minimum payments of 92% by AFL rules its save to say that the coach gets the cuts first, doesn't it?

I have heard that comment 'For the greater good of footy' numerious times by people associated with footy clubs other then our own.

No sooner then I typed that out (and was challenged) I checked up with a board member of Hawthorn on live radio (yes that was me) and put some money on getting a quote with those exact terms. Surprise surprise on SEN Dermie said
'What will happen is for the greater good of footy'
Sounded very definite with NO room of compromise. Won me $50 on the spot.

Why are members of various different Footy clubs boards using the EXACT same response, coincidence only would tend to lead so far?
Dermie said it in a public forum so I have no trouble quoting that, only if I suggest other people I would never get a heads-up again in my life.....

[blah..blah]

2 divisions say 10 teams per division
shorter season, each team plays each other team twice.
10 home games/10 away
Religation of the bottom team to 2nd division. Winner of 2nd team promotion into top division.
Gate money (evenly distributed to clubs)
AFL sponser all clubs and pay them say 15M per year.
AFL negotate sponsers for each of the clubs, ie the clubs dont seek out individual sponsers. Surely the AFL could get 10 sponsers for the top ten teams, plus the money they get through fox and free to air to cover costs.
2nd division play all games on Sunday
1st division play games Friday and Sat
Salary cap cheats, regegation to 2nd division.
Members who join clubs have rights to buy ticket for the finals, once member tickets are exhausted then public and corp can get tickets. How flat are G.F's when 95% of the crowd dont even support either of the clubs.
GF played in the home state of team which finishes on top of the ladder.
Usual salary cap stuff. all clubs div 1 and div 2 have the same salary cap for players and admin staff.


Problem with this approach
Same issue with getting players to come to clubs that risk relegation. however if everyone is on an even financial base all clubs should be in the same situation, ie there are no more power clubs, just clubs with larger supporter bases.

[Toffeeman]

Originally posted by blah..blah

AFL sponser all clubs and pay them say 15M per year.
AFL negotate sponsers for each of the clubs, ie the clubs dont seek out individual sponsers. Surely the AFL could get 10 sponsers for the top ten teams, plus the money they get through fox and free to air to cover costs.

however if everyone is on an even financial base all clubs should be in the same situation.

Sounds like communism!

[Treikhis]

Treikhis (Some merged name of Star Trekkies + Khan (movie II)?

Your guess is close and I will give all but the actual answer.

Without knowing for sure (for many reasons), but seeing Star Trek was made in the 70's, rather than that of today. Chances are that all of Captain Kirks men and women had them. If it were made today I could not be so sure as the trend for this has changed amongst particularly younger people.

It actually derives from the first foreign word I learnt from Greek mates in first year at High School 20 odd years ago.

Millions of years ago the items to which your name refers was a much closer relative. :confused:

[blah..blah]

Originally posted by Toffeeman
Sounds like communism!

Have you been waiting long to squeze out that reply.

Oh well, I always thought the afl wanted an even competition, how can it get any fairer ?

[skooshtamart]

1 Contract for all players

all starting players get a $5K per game base of which a portion goes into an injury fund & super fund the balance is divied up via best on ground performances voted by all the players on the day

Say BOG $25K bonus cheque.
with runners up 2 x 10k
5 x 5k
6 x 2k
8 x 1k

maybe even throw a win / loss ratio into the equation

due to one contract no managers required,
players potentially can earn more.

selfish players wont get the votes off teammates, potentially improving teamwork.

At the end of the day every player gets an accurate assessment of his contributions and is renumerated accordingly.

[Maddog1980]

Originally posted by skooshtamart
1 Contract for all players

all starting players get a $5K per game base of which a portion goes into an injury fund & super fund the balance is divied up via best on ground performances voted by all the players on the day

Say BOG $25K bonus cheque.
with runners up 2 x 10k
5 x 5k
6 x 2k
8 x 1k

maybe even throw a win / loss ratio into the equation

due to one contract no managers required,
players potentially can earn more.

selfish players wont get the votes off teammates, potentially improving teamwork.

At the end of the day every player gets an accurate assessment of his contributions and is renumerated accordingly.




The simplest solution is often the most suitable!

[Bloody-Redhead]

A scale system goes against the Players Association, just like cutting the cap by a third.
As much as I tend to say that you get what you deserve and earn your rights and pay you almost need a socialist/communism mechanism in place to ensure what we all demand from the league: A FAIR AND EQUAL COMPETITION

However the AFLs decisions have steered away from that, and with channel 9 (the commercialisation channel) and Fox running the show then they will tend to demand several things:

1) Interstate clubs don't hit rock bottom (a glass floor) because its bad for ratings

2) The smaller clubs that don't rate shouldn't be the winning team (glass roof)

Along with the AFL :

wanting more interstate clubs and more games interstate
wanting as much money for their flagship emblem, had no interest in directing Toyota to clubs that need the cash (including one in their local 'community' that they brag about a lot but do little for)


*******************************************
Treikhis : What the ****!

3 or triple of something as far as I can tell

Only thing they have that aren't allowed to be made today (due to political correctness -namely government 'ethics' - namely censorship)

Those funky Zap Guns?!?!!?!?

Are you the Three Gun Cowboy!!?!?!?!?!?

[Treikhis]

Originally posted by Bloody-Redhead


*******************************************
Treikhis : What the ****!

3 or triple of something as far as I can tell

Only thing they have that aren't allowed to be made today (due to political correctness -namely government 'ethics' - namely censorship)

Those funky Zap Guns?!?!!?!?

Are you the Three Gun Cowboy!!?!?!?!?!?

Pronounced: TrrreakHisss. With a rumble of the tonque on the roof of your mouth.

No guns, no lazers, no political correctness and no cowboy. It simply refers to:

Hair - (some Greeks say specifically) it is other than that which is located on the head.

While on names what the .... Skooshtamata?? Is this a tomato which has been stepped on or a tomato on its way down a slope of some kind.

[Knackers]

Originally posted by Treikhis
Pronounced: TrrreakHisss. With a rumble of the tonque on the roof of your mouth.

No guns, no lazers, no political correctness and no cowboy. It simply refers to:

Hair - (some Greeks say specifically) it is other than that which is located on the head.



There is no "k" in Trihess, (or tpixes in Greek vocab)

[Treikhis]

Originally posted by Knackers
There is no "k" in Trihess, (or tpixes in Greek vocab)

You could be right - it was a long time ago, who am I to argue with what makes good sense. Trihess. So what do I do now I am null and void as Treikhis. Hmmmmmm!o Oh well I will stay Treikhis and so a new chapter begins.

[Bloody-Redhead]

Skooshtamata

Hmmm.....

Sexy Koosh (or toosh) on a girl named Tamara (I am predicting the person typed 't' instead of 'r' (which is right next door on the keyboard...check it out right now if you don't believe me!):eek:

[skooshtamart]

Mention the word to a member of the italian community your sure to get a laugh.
(BTW-I'm not of Italian decent, Just socialise with)

there are variant pronounciations, this is one

This word represents hopefully the opposition all year..


:D :D :D

[Ching]

????
Never did any Italian schooling but I'm pretty sure there is no 'k' in the Italian language.

What ever it means, its very slang possibly southern Italian.

[Mr. Walker]

Originally posted by Ching
????
Never did any Italian schooling but I'm pretty sure there is no 'k' in the Italian language.

What ever it means, its very slang possibly southern Italian.

Manuel in Fawlty Towers is always saying "k" but then he is from Barcelona

[Ching]

Originally posted by Mr. Walker
Manuel in Fawlty Towers is always saying "k" but then he is from Barcelona
:)
That was his pet rat!

[LondonBulldog]

The Simple Solution is for gate reciepts of every game to be spread evenly between the clubs.

Reason : We currently have and inequitable draw with certain clubs drawing "bigger" games at "bigger" grounds.

Therefore each club has there own responsibility to gain members and sponors.

[Ching]

I can now see why your posts are being deleted desi