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McCrann

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Nov 1, 2007
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When the AFL starts asking for state league name changes and for a share in the licenses of the Eagles and Dockers then I've got serious problems with the AFL controlling the game.

In WA the WAFC controls the sport, is resposible with the WAFL for the development of top line talent within a completely separate system to AFL. Auskick or not.

The licenses that Westcoast and Fremantle hold are essential to the sports standing in the community but they belong to the people of this state and are run as such. Now if the AFL want supreme control over all clubs and competitions then they need to be governed by a separate power. Period.

Have the WAFC considered looking to introduce (perhaps in 5-6-8 years) a team from South Africa?

Perhaps the South African team (At least initially) could play half its games in Cape Town and half in Port Elizabeth. (To reduce costs for the team). And the WAFL teams could fly over to play them - paid for by the WAFC (Or AFL?).

Now that would be some real innovation on the part of the WAFC wouldn't it? Growing the game and potentially opening up a new market.

Perhaps the WAFC and Freo/WCE could do a deal with the AFL that they get priority over any potential South African recruits for a period - 10 years perhaps?

It would eliminate the bye in the WAFL for one thing wouldn't it?

When the South African team started becoming more competitive (hopefully after 2-3 years) they could start flying over to Perth to play a few away games. And then perhaps you open up the possibilty of 2 South African teams - one in Cape Town & one in Port Elizabeth - depending of course on how the team has been received in each of these cities.
 

McCrann

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Beg to differ. :)D) The Tassie Tigers cricket has had interstate coaches & players, like other states do. An AFL team in Tassie would attract the best available playing & coaching & management talent. Just like all other clubs, thats how the system works.
My point is that demonstrably their are too many teams in Melbourne, the Tassie brand would add to the AFL's national character, more so than some suburban Melbourne names. & that it would be sustainable for reasons I've put on here B4.


Interesting points you make there - I take it you are suggesting you'd be more than happy for Collingwood to relocate to Tassie?

I'm in agreement with you on that one - it would probably make more Victorians day than any other team relocating.
 

McCrann

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The 1876 season saw St Kilda re-emerge as a discrete club and sufficient improvement was shown for it to be accorded first class status (along with seven others) when the Victorian Football Association was formed in 1877.

By 1879, however, the club was in dire straits with repeated poor performances on the field causing the cancellation of the final few fixtures of the season. Between 1880 and 1885 the precise history of the club is difficult to trace, although it is clear that for at least some of that period St Kilda competed in junior ranks. By 1886, however, the club had consolidated, and was re-admitted to the VFA with full senior status.

More St Kilda History

Hmm, sounds familiar don't it, the 80s are never a good time to be a Saints fan.
 

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Aug 16, 2006
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Please dont make this a silly argument.
It has been a silly thread for a long, long while.

LIKE the Tassie tigers do, & like what will happen in Western Sydney. I mean how many people experienced & qualified to run an AFL club live in Western Sydney? Non until they got the job & moved there, I would bet.
None, but the AFL saw a significant reason to establish there, that they haven't seen in Tassie - part of that is they support & have always supported 3 or 4 league clubs.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Interesting points you make there - I take it you are suggesting you'd be more than happy for Collingwood to relocate to Tassie?

I'm in agreement with you on that one - it would probably make more Victorians day than any other team relocating.

No I dont want any Victorian teams sent here, or here to make money. I've said we want our own team. Vic teams can stay in Melbourne & play VFL if they cant cut it in the AFL.
 
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It has been a silly thread for a long, long while.

Yes but its fun & no one gets hurt:D

None, but the AFL saw a significant reason to establish there, that they haven't seen in Tassie - part of that is they support & have always supported 3 or 4 league clubs.

I know that! I agree with the move to GWS. The point is I want a Tassie team in the AFL & that their are too many Melbourne teams in it already. We have two teams here next year just down to make money. Thats happened for too long, cost too much, does nothing for local footy etc etc etc
 

EssendonNick

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Have the WAFC considered looking to introduce (perhaps in 5-6-8 years) a team from South Africa?

Perhaps the South African team (At least initially) could play half its games in Cape Town and half in Port Elizabeth. (To reduce costs for the team). And the WAFL teams could fly over to play them - paid for by the WAFC (Or AFL?).

Now that would be some real innovation on the part of the WAFC wouldn't it? Growing the game and potentially opening up a new market.

Perhaps the WAFC and Freo/WCE could do a deal with the AFL that they get priority over any potential South African recruits for a period - 10 years perhaps?

It would eliminate the bye in the WAFL for one thing wouldn't it?

When the South African team started becoming more competitive (hopefully after 2-3 years) they could start flying over to Perth to play a few away games. And then perhaps you open up the possibilty of 2 South African teams - one in Cape Town & one in Port Elizabeth - depending of course on how the team has been received in each of these cities.

That's a long long and expensive away trip.
 
Apr 13, 2006
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1924 actually

But the point remains, is that ideally a set up AFL would not have being an expanded VFL. Many of the Victorian teams (big four, hawthorn, geelong- possibly Melbourne for historic reasons) would have made it.

The AFL should have being created from scratch.

God no. There is not a less deserving club in the league, GWS included. Outside the silly "we have to have a team called Melbourne, we were the first club and the even more tenuous we invented the game" there is not a club the epitomises being there for legacy reasons than the senile inbred blue bloods who last held some relevence when Polio was in fashion.
 

Simple Jack

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Have the WAFC considered looking to introduce (perhaps in 5-6-8 years) a team from South Africa?

Perhaps the South African team (At least initially) could play half its games in Cape Town and half in Port Elizabeth. (To reduce costs for the team). And the WAFL teams could fly over to play them - paid for by the WAFC (Or AFL?).


Surely if we're going down the South Africa route you would have half the games/eventually 2 teams in Joburg/Cape Town.

Putting a team in Cape Town and Port Elizabeth is akin to introducing two NZ teams at Queenstown and Invercargill.

I think a better way would be have one team split its games between Cape Town/Port Elizabeth and another split between Joburg/Pretoria (they are effectively 1 city anyway*).



*For those unaware Joburg and Pretoria are roughly 30 mins away by car. So it's like having Melbourne 30 mins from Canberra.
 
Jan 26, 2006
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Have the WAFC considered looking to introduce (perhaps in 5-6-8 years) a team from South Africa?

Perhaps the South African team (At least initially) could play half its games in Cape Town and half in Port Elizabeth. (To reduce costs for the team). And the WAFL teams could fly over to play them - paid for by the WAFC (Or AFL?).

Now that would be some real innovation on the part of the WAFC wouldn't it? Growing the game and potentially opening up a new market.

Perhaps the WAFC and Freo/WCE could do a deal with the AFL that they get priority over any potential South African recruits for a period - 10 years perhaps?

It would eliminate the bye in the WAFL for one thing wouldn't it?

When the South African team started becoming more competitive (hopefully after 2-3 years) they could start flying over to Perth to play a few away games. And then perhaps you open up the possibilty of 2 South African teams - one in Cape Town & one in Port Elizabeth - depending of course on how the team has been received in each of these cities.

Do WAFL clubs have the money?

I'd suggest not.
 
What I would do if I wanted to retain the megalomania is:

I would rename the AFL to the ANFC.
But keep the league named the AFL.

First-tier members of the ANFC would be subject to an agreement with that body as well as notability requirements (ones that I'm thinking only the AFL, VFA, SANFL and WAFL would meet right now) but in return would have their records and premierships counted as part of ANFC records. The AFL's records would comprise the VFL 1897-1989 and AFL 1990- and that's all.

This would additionally solve the whole Port Adelaide bleating by allowing them to say they had thirty-whatever ANFC premierships.

Carlton and Essendon (and hopefully Collingwood in a couple of weeks :p) would in turn still be allowed to claim that they had the most AFL premierships.

As more leagues meet notability requirements they too would be incorporated into ANFC records.

No. The AFL Commission would remain, with responsbility for running that one league only, its club interactions, tribunal etc. It would be voted in by the AFL clubs only and keep records of AFL premierships.


The ANFC commissison would be voted for by all member organisations and be responsible for the Laws of the Game, Australian Football Hall of Fame, Foxtel Cup and other inter-league competitions, rugby-territory and international development, etc.
It would keep all 'First Class' records, and would be the sport's equivalent of the ICC, FIFA, etc.



Because it makes it difficult to separate the AFL from Australian Football as a whole. Already we have the situation where NSW and Qld people are actively being encouraged to call the entire sport "AFL", which just leaves every other competition ever in the dust.
Completely agree. I think the AFL have dropped the ball by marketing the sport as AFL. As such, the FFA have stepped in and have taken the term 'football' and even 'Australian football' by stealth and now almost completely dominate it.

The AFL has a standing offer to the WAFL . Change the league name to AFLWA and we will up your funding. The WAFL has said no thus far.

I think an ANFC should be formed and have a commision formed by One rep from each league/state. Plus an AFL Rep.

The ANFC should be given to safeguard;

Rules of the Game
History
Hall Of Fame etc
Financial Control of development money

No way would the AFL want that, but with the AFL being a not for profit organisation its the way to go
Changing the name of the WAFL to AFLWA would just be another step of the death of Australian Football at the expense of the mighty "AFL".

Completely agree with your suggestions too.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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Completely agree. I think the AFL have dropped the ball by marketing the sport as AFL. As such, the FFA have stepped in and have taken the term 'football' and even 'Australian football' by stealth and now almost completely dominate it.


Changing the name of the WAFL to AFLWA would just be another step of the death of Australian Football at the expense of the mighty "AFL".

Completely agree with your suggestions too.
Forgive me, but what would it change, exactly???
If it's same clubs, same set-up (not having dedicated WCE/Freo reserves etc).
 

Poskitt

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Forgive me, but what would it change, exactly???
If it's same clubs, same set-up (not having dedicated WCE/Freo reserves etc).

"AFLWA" would suggest a subsidiary or derivative of the AFL, when in fact the WAFL goes back 125+ years and is an entirely different competition with its own history, etc. Name changes have already been tried twice since the introduction of the AFL: in 1990, and from 1997–2000. Both of these coincided with some of the worst attendances in history.
 

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Poskitt

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Nov 13, 2011
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Have the WAFC considered looking to introduce (perhaps in 5-6-8 years) a team from South Africa?

Perhaps the South African team (At least initially) could play half its games in Cape Town and half in Port Elizabeth. (To reduce costs for the team). And the WAFL teams could fly over to play them - paid for by the WAFC (Or AFL?).

Now that would be some real innovation on the part of the WAFC wouldn't it? Growing the game and potentially opening up a new market.

Perhaps the WAFC and Freo/WCE could do a deal with the AFL that they get priority over any potential South African recruits for a period - 10 years perhaps?

It would eliminate the bye in the WAFL for one thing wouldn't it?

When the South African team started becoming more competitive (hopefully after 2-3 years) they could start flying over to Perth to play a few away games. And then perhaps you open up the possibilty of 2 South African teams - one in Cape Town & one in Port Elizabeth - depending of course on how the team has been received in each of these cities.

With all due respect, that's pretty ****ing stupid. Peel Thunder was introduced into the competition in 1997; 15 seasons later, and they haven't made a finals series yet. The club is based in a heavy football area.

South Africa has virtually no support for a WAFL club. Even heavily subsidised, a team would struggle to beat most suburban clubs.
 

RogersResults

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May 7, 2009
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Interesting that the AFL's new Facebook timeline goes back to 'Founded' in 1858.

Bit like the founding of a New South Wales penal colony in the British claimed half of the continent in 1788 is celebrated as "Australia" Day.

Most assume that it is called the "Australian Football League" because the competition has teams from more Australian states than it doesn't.

Perhaps it is really The Australian Football League and Australian Football traditionally traces its origin back to 1858.

Most don't think about these things whether it affects them or not.
 
Bit like the founding of a New South Wales penal colony in the British claimed half of the continent in 1788 is celebrated as "Australia" Day.

Most assume that it is called the "Australian Football League" because the competition has teams from more Australian states than it doesn't.

Perhaps it is really The Australian Football League and Australian Football traditionally traces its origin back to 1858.

Most don't think about these things whether it affects them or not.
But in no shape or form is the AFL the same as Australian Football, and Australian Football is not the AFL.

As we all know the AFL was previously known as the VFL and was formed in 1897. It is just another example of it trying to rewrite history and become the only elite form of the game.
 

RogersResults

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But in no shape or form is the AFL the same as Australian Football, and Australian Football is not the AFL.

As we all know the AFL was previously known as the VFL and was formed in 1897. It is just another example of it trying to rewrite history and become the only elite form of the game.

I hope you'll sign the next petition to move "Australia Day" from the ridiculous Jan 26th.

If the AFL is not now "in some shape or form" the "same as Australian Football" what or who is? When the AFL assumed the former role of the Australasian Football Council/Australian National Football Council/Australian Football Council which was recognised as the national controlling body of the sport (it set the rules) could it not be said that the AFL is in fact something significantly in shape or form, "Australian Football". Unlike the federation of Australia where the members retained their sovereignty, the constituent members of the Football Council let the strongest member become not only the capital but also have a unitary sovereignty over the sport.

Who else now has more if any say in the direction the game of Australian Football will take than the AFL?

Those who think about it may nor like it, but it is very difficult to deny.
 
I hope you'll sign the next petition to move "Australia Day" from the ridiculous Jan 26th.

If the AFL is not now "in some shape or form" the "same as Australian Football" what or who is? When the AFL assumed the former role of the Australasian Football Council/Australian National Football Council/Australian Football Council which was recognised as the national controlling body of the sport (it set the rules) could it not be said that the AFL is in fact something significantly in shape or form, "Australian Football". Unlike the federation of Australia where the members retained their sovereignty, the constituent members of the Football Council let the strongest member become not only the capital but also have a unitary sovereignty over the sport.

Who else now has more if any say in the direction the game of Australian Football will take than the AFL?

Those who think about it may nor like it, but it is very difficult to deny.
But that's exactly it, they assumed it. You might as well say the A-League started in the 1800s when the first game of Association Football was played in this country.
 

RogersResults

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But that's exactly it, they assumed it. You might as well say the A-League started in the 1800s when the first game of Association Football was played in this country.

So you'll definitely vote to move Australia Day from the date of founding of a penal colony in NSW?

However the problem with this discussion is that the AFL's Facebook site doesn't actually claim that the League was founded in 1858, but that Australian Football was devised (founded) in 1858. (The time-line even shows correctly the South Australian Football Association being formed before the Victorian Football Association in 1877.)

Founded in 1858
In 1857, Tom Wills, one of the founders of Australian Football, returned to Australia after schooling in England where he was football captain of Rugby School and a brilliant cricketer. Initially, he advocated the winter game of football as a way of keeping cricketers fit during off-season.

The new game was devised by Wills, his cousin H.C.A. Harrison, W.J. Hammersley and J.B. Thompson.


You could say that the game that became known as Australian Football had its origins in a football game with an original set of rules devised in Melbourne in 1858, because the good gentlemen mentioned above certainly didn't christen it "Australian Football" at the time.

But that's getting into different territory.
 

RogersResults

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didnt the AFL start in 1897?

Not quite. Started playing in 1897 but was 'started' (formed/created) in 1896. Australia 'started' in 1901 but there was relevant developmental history for both before that. Neither materialised out of nothing. Time-lines of each can legitimately contain events leading up to each one's creation.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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But in no shape or form is the AFL the same as Australian Football, and Australian Football is not the AFL.

As we all know the AFL was previously known as the VFL and was formed in 1897. It is just another example of it trying to rewrite history and become the only elite form of the game.
Sorry, is there another elite body/league/form of the game that I've missed? Is there another history where the A (nee V) FL is not the elite form of the game?


It is the clubs, players, fans and matches that make up the league & history. Not the name.
They could call it the Australian Fiddlesticks Pennant for all I care.

(What is now the) AFL is the elite league - bar maybe a decade or two where - arguably - the SANFL challenged, and another where (again arguably) the WAFL challenged, this has not changed for 120 years.

They all have their place within that history; changing their name won't erase them.
Putting AFL clubs in those states has done far more to the WAFL/SANFL competitions - taken more players, more fans away - than any name change could ever do.
 
Sorry, is there another elite body/league/form of the game that I've missed? Is there another history where the A (nee V) FL is not the elite form of the game?


It is the clubs, players, fans and matches that make up the league & history. Not the name.
They could call it the Australian Fiddlesticks Pennant for all I care.

(What is now the) AFL is the elite league - bar maybe a decade or two where - arguably - the SANFL challenged, and another where (again arguably) the WAFL challenged, this has not changed for 120 years.

They all have their place within that history; changing their name won't erase them.
Putting AFL clubs in those states has done far more to the WAFL/SANFL competitions - taken more players, more fans away - than any name change could ever do.
Sorry, I meant the AFL has tried to rewrite history on a number of occasions to paint itself as the only elite form of the game at any stage of the sport's history.

One example is the release of '100 Years of Australian Football' in print and on video in 1996, when the league was celebrating its centenary (yet the sport was 138 years old).

Obviously the AFL is the sole elite form of the game now, however this has not been the case for a large proportion of the sport's history.
 
Aug 16, 2006
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"100 years of the league which started in Victoria eventually overtaking all the other leagues then moved into other parts of the country" didn't fit on the spine label of the VHS.
I'd be far more worried about the content than the title - which is, in itself, trivial.

I do see the need for the distinction to be made between this league's history and the game's history - ie the AFL should not be writing the game's history, rather their own.

That stuff should be a commission duty rather than AFL.
 

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