Indigenous players - do they have the motor?

[radiojake]

My 'theory' is that for all the environmental factors in the World your average Filipino is not suited to professional basketball.

I am sure this has more to do with the state of the Philipino basketball association and the amount of money they have to fund their academies (which, without checking at all, I would assume would be little to none), more so than any inherent 'genetic trait' based on 'race'.

 

[Forward Press]

My 'theory' is that for all the environmental factors in the World your average Filipino is not suited to professional basketball.

For all your essays and Wikipedia quotes if you don't think there might be a hint of biology involved in this then I don't know what to say.

Where's your references then? I'd like to see evidence other than 'well look at the Olympics 100m sprint final, it's all black guys'

 

[E Shed]

Simplifying the matter is that dark skinned people generally don't like to be called black.
We'll always have issues with the whole situation until such a time as when skin colour, sexual orientation, religious leanings are not solely representative of who you are as an individual or group.

If "whites" were the minority and the historically repressed group, we may just not like being called "whitey".
As a matter of fact, I know we wouldn't.

I'm in a band where I'm the only white fella. The aboriginal blokes all call themselves blackfellas, I even wrote a song called "blackfella time" about the fact they are always late. They love it and think it's hilarious. They call me their white brother from another mother and sometimes just wadjella.
it's all about context.

 

[Scotland]

I am sure this has more to do with the state of the Philipino basketball association and the amount of money they have to fund their academies (which, without checking at all, I would assume would be little to none), more so than any inherent 'genetic trait' based on 'race'.

Have you been to the Philippines? The average height for a professional basketballer is 6'7''. That's about 15 inches taller than the average Filipino. How do you suggest the PBA address this?

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Simplifying the matter is that dark skinned people generally don't like to be called black.
We'll always have issues with the whole situation until such a time as when skin colour, sexual orientation, religious leanings are not solely representative of who you are as an individual or group.

If "whites" were the minority and the historically repressed group, we may just not like being called "whitey".
As a matter of fact, I know we wouldn't.

That is a ridiculoussituation, obviously depending on the context, in a harmless, descriptive sense, you should be able to use the term 'black' without bein labelled a rascist.

If you take it this far, people can't make mention of minority groups in any format without being labelled racist.

I mean a simplistic view is that you can treat everybody the same way, then you are by all definitions non-racist, so by creating this egg-shell scenario above is in fact increasing a form of rascism, by fact of differential treatment.

 

[barmy44]

also, black is currently the accepted term.

EDIT: at least in reference to people from america...

 

[BigBroMike]

Where's your references then? I'd like to see evidence other than 'well look at the Olympics 100m sprint final, it's all black guys'

The proof is in the pudding my friend. Basketball is the most popular sport in the Philippines and they've got a population of 94 million. Yet how many Filos play in the NBA? Are there even any? How many Filos play in Euro basketball leagues? Probably not that many. This all goes as evidence that their not really that good. If they were good they'd have players representing them in the top basketball leagues in the world- yet they don't.

Contrast this with Samoans. A population of merely 200,000 and there's 30 of them playing in the NFL.
http://www.ipacific.com/forum/index.php?topic=60.0
A Samoan is 56x more likely than a person of any other race to play in the NFL, which is even more remarkable when you consider that american football isn't even the most popular sport in Samoa! Hundreds of Samoans play rugby and rugby league at the top level. You only need to look at Super 15, European rugby comps, and the All Blacks to see how much influence Samoa has upon rugby as well. In the feeder leagues for rugby there's also heaps of Samoans representing. Similiar story with rugby league. NRL, NSW Cup, Qld Cup, Super league etc. all have disproportionate numbers of Samoans representing.

So how come Samoans are good at American football and Filos aren't that good at basketball. Well it can't be social or cultural reasons because Filipinos love basketball just as Samoans love rugby and American football. The whole participation rate theory can get thrown out the window since Samoa has a population of only 200,000 to Filo 94 million. You can't say it's because Filos are poor because Samoans are poor 2.

So than you look at the sports and the characteristics you need for the sports. Samoa and islanders do good at rugby because our bodies are suited towards the game. Samoans, are amongst the worlds most mesomorphic body types. A number of studies have shown that muscle bulk and the degree of muscularity especially in the thigh and buttock are important predictors of success in rugby players whereas the opposite applies in such sports as distance running. This genetic admixture helps in part explain why athletes from this region are large, agile, and fast.

Now you look at basketball and the characteristics you need for success are height, speed, agility, jumps, and skills. Apart from skills the Filos don't really have any of the natural ability (height & athleticism) that you need to make it to the top leagues in basketball. You can be a good shooter but if you can't guard your position you're not going to make an NBA roster no matter how good a shooter you are. 6ft shooting guards are gonna struggle guarding all the star wing players in the league and therefore are more of a liability than a weapon.

2 of coach's favourite sayings are-
Speed kills & You never lose size

Rugby context-
Samoans have size and great speed for our size.

Basketball Context-
Filos don't have speed or height (size).

Hence, it would appear that Filos defs aren't suited towards basketball because they don't have the desirable characteristics for it.

 

[TheRealComptroller]

FWIW

Nathan Brown (the one born in 1978 from Bendigo) said he had the worst endurance at the Bulldogs when he started his career.

The only thing "brown" about him was his surname.

 

[Blue and Silver]

I think people misunderstand.

Genetics play a significant factor, typically you have a higher probability of being tall if your father/mother was tall, and if your family has lived in an environment where being tall was an admirable trait in the past this increased your chances of reproduction and this attribute being passed on. What is being ignored is that while Fillipino's may be shorter on average then Africans, this is not because their ethnicity determines so, it is because genetically tall people weren't selected any more than short people in that culture and environment. It is more likely that a Fillipino will be shorter, but that doesn't mean all Fillipino's are shorter then all Africans.

This is completely different from an assesment of endurance however, because endurance is not a genetic trait, it is a sign of a healthy cardio-vascular system.

 

[barmy44]

This is completely different from an assesment of endurance however, because endurance is not a genetic trait, it is a sign of a healthy cardio-vascular system.

im pretty sure everything is a genetic trait, not the least of which is a healthy cardio-vascular system.

that is why doctors say 'watch out for heart disease, especially if there is a family history of it'.

 

[Forward Press]

No probs.

Feel free to be disgusted with those lazy drunks you see because that's not being racist - that's just being disgusted at a lazy drunk person.

 

[Malifice]

Can we now all see where generalisations based on race get us?

I had hopes for this thread.

Im an idiot.

 

[Provost_]

I had hopes for this thread.

It was only a matter of time............

Im an idiot.

Only for holding onto hope, and there is no hope to be had in Bay 13

 

[Malifice]

Only for holding onto hope, and there is no hope to be had in Bay 13

This is the main board.

 

[ashs35]

Why would you want to compare races in the first place? The whole subject is ****ing stupid & borne of racism, however subtle.

 

[Malifice]

Why would you want to compare races in the first place? The whole subject is ****ing stupid & borne of racism, however subtle.

Someone gets it.

Basically we are comparing arbitrary subjective social constructs against each other.

And then ascribing objective biological traits to them, that scientifically there is no proof for.

Understandable that this approach was rejected by the UN, the Scientific community, the Social Sciences, the Legal and other academic and professional fields decades ago.

Pity it hasnt dribbled down into mainstream thinking in Oz yet.

 

[BigBroMike]

Why would you want to compare races in the first place? The whole subject is ****ing stupid & borne of racism, however subtle.

Because it's interesting. Just because you don't have an interest in anthropology or biology it doesn't mean it's 'fuking stupid'. Even though i don't always agree with Malifice he's actually pretty knowledgable in the area and always brings up ideas that i never thought about so you end up learning stuff.

 

[aussierulesrules]

[youtube]3YnQdBD2y64[/youtube]

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh!

 

[Provost_]

This is the main board.

Right you are, I lost all notion of what board I was on a few pages back.......

 

[ashs35]

Because it's interesting. Just because you don't have an interest in anthropology or biology it doesn't mean it's 'fuking stupid'. Even though i don't always agree with Malifice he's actually pretty knowledgable in the area and always brings up ideas that i never thought about so you end up learning stuff.

I mean from a judgmental standpoint, not scientific lol

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Someone gets it.

Basically we are comparing arbitrary subjective social constructs against each other.

And then ascribing objective biological traits to them, that scientifically there is no proof for.

Understandable that this approach was rejected by the UN, the Scientific community, the Social Sciences, the Legal and other academic and professional fields decades ago.

Pity it hasnt dribbled down into mainstream thinking in Oz yet.

Only insofar as the general population goes according to what you've posted and not withstanding the studies on East African distance runners.

If hereditary isn't biological then what is it?

 

[Malifice]

If hereditary isn't biological then what is it?

You understand the difference between inheriting the genes of your parents, and broad groupings along the lines of racial biology yeah?

Its not like each 'race' is indulging in one massive orgy and sharing genes freely (and exclusively) amongst the entire 'race'.

Probably why the science shows such marked genetic diversity within population groups.

And also why science rejects Biological essentialism of the kind which you are suggesting:

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by heritable phenotypic characteristics, geographic ancestry, physical appearance, and ethnicity. In the early twentieth century the term was often used, in its taxonomic sense, to denote genetically diverse human populations whose members possessed similar phenotypes.[1]

Bolded above is what you are claiming. Old school biological essentialism. IN other words, you are using the term 'race' in its taxonomic sense to denote gentically diverse human populations who posses similar phenotypes.

Read on:

While biologists sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race is often used [5] in a naive[6] or simplistic way. Among humans, race has no taxonomic significance; all living humans belong to the same hominid subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[7][8] Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies [9] that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits.

Scientists consider biological essentialism obsolete,[10] and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits.[6][11]

Pay particular attention to the last bolded line.

Also:

By the 1970s, it had become clear that:

(1) most human differences were cultural;

(2) what was not cultural was principally polymorphic – that is to say, found in diverse groups of people at different frequencies;

(3) what was not cultural or polymorphic was principally clinal – that is to say, gradually variable over geography; and

(4) what was left – the component of human diversity that was not cultural, polymorphic, or clinal – was very small.

A consensus consequently developed among anthropologists and geneticists that race as the previous generation had known it – as largely discrete, geographically distinct, gene pools – did not exist.

And:

Anthropologists long ago discovered that humans' physical traits vary gradually, with groups that are close geographic neighbors being more similar than groups that are geographically separated. This pattern of variation, known as clinal variation, is also observed for many alleles that vary from one human group to another. Another observation is that traits or alleles that vary from one group to another do not vary at the same rate. This pattern is referred to as nonconcordant variation.

Because the variation of physical traits is clinal and nonconcordant, anthropologists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries discovered that the more traits and the more human groups they measured, the fewer discrete differences they observed among races and the more categories they had to create to classify human beings. The number of races observed expanded to the 30s and 50s, and eventually anthropologists concluded that there were no discrete races

Twentieth and 21st century biomedical researchers have discovered this same feature when evaluating human variation at the level of alleles and allele frequencies. Nature has not created four or five distinct, nonoverlapping genetic groups of people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)

Im sorry bro, but this s**t has been studied thouroughly, by anthropologists, biologists, doctors, evolutionary scientists and geneticists and... well youre wrong.

Race (in the naive way you are using the term) does not exist.

'Race' is a subjective social construct, not an objective biological reality.

 

[Covertackle]

i see you are pontificating again malfice...

so why do surplanted africans all over the world, and being a small minority of their adopted country, often make up the large percentage of their adopted countries track teams?



.

 

[Malifice]

so why do surplanted africans all over the world, and being a small minority of their adopted country, often make up the large percentage of their adopted countries track teams?

Youre asking questions that have already been asked and answered mate.

If you think differently to the accepted scientific, legal, sociological, biological and genetic evidence and theory and think that 'racial genetics' is instead the answer to this phenomenon, post your evidence in this thread.

What youre doing is identifying a phenomenon (the african running phenomenon), providing a theory (racial genetics is the cause) and then ignoring the accepted data that proves your theory wrong.

And you are ignoring this accepted scientific data on no other grounds than because it goes against your assumptions - and getting angry in the process.

Find me the evidence that falsifies the human geonome project, and contradicts the findings of biologists, genticists, sociologists, anthropologists, evolotionary scientists and so on.

We'd all be really excited to see it.

 

[Covertackle]

Youre asking questions that have already been asked and answered mate.

If you think differently to the accepted scientific, legal, sociological, biological and genetic evidence and theory and think that 'racial genetics' is instead the answer to this phenomenon, post your evidence in this thread. .

you are such a blowhard. i bet you parrot global warming also.


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