Not bottoming out – have we made a mistake?

[Geoffa32]

When is Robbie going to become a full time mid, who merely rests up forward. Instead of a small forward who has an occasional run in the middle.

He is now 24, that move should have been made by now?


FWIW I reckon he is the most talented player on your list, and certainly the most creative when in pressure situations.

 

[ruscy002]

That is not what he said. He was talking about your response.
Waiting to see what happens before deciding something is "fence sitting".

But I wasn't saying that I'd reserve my judgement on whether or not we should have bottomed out until success comes along - I've always maintained that we've got it wrong over the past five or so years.

What I was saying is that a few extra years on the premiership drought (i.e. longer rebuild) is more stomachable once we win a flag than a slightly shorter drought but with the humiliation of 3 years in the bottom 2. It is quite obvious that we'll have to wait and see if it pans out this way.

 

[*PAF]

When is Robbie going to become a full time mid, who merely rests up forward. Instead of a small forward who has an occasional run in the middle.

He is now 24, that move should have been made by now?


FWIW I reckon he is the most talented player on your list, and certainly the most creative when in pressure situations.

Yeah I agree with all of that and is partially the answer to why I started posting on this thread.

IMO player development is more important than picks, although there is no doubt that the strike rate increases with lower picks.

IMO we did not do a good job with player development for a while and Gray may be an example of that. Injury after injury and his fitness base appeared to stagnate for a number of years.
That may be behind him now as he is finally starting to play as a mid that rests in the forward line.

 

[aneale]

Think I might to watch a few more Port games this year before I make a judgement. Against the Saints there were periods where their midfield looked excellent but there were also times where they resembled witches hats (2nd quarter).

Not to mention, I believe there are real questions about St Kilda full stop. They have chased the flag (and fair enough too) at the expense of getting games into kids. They're slow and on the tumble down the ladder IMO, I put them outside the 8.

 

[Geoffa32]

Not to mention, I believe there are real questions about St Kilda full stop. They have chased the flag (and fair enough too) at the expense of getting games into kids. They're slow and on the tumble down the ladder IMO, I put them outside the 8.

Saints are the top 8 side I see sliding for us to play finals.

Hard to see many of the other finalists of 2011 falling out.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Different people have different opinions.
IMO Gray will easily be our best midfielder and one of our very few matchwinners if he can stay fit. Wingard may be a match winner as well eventually based on his one and only game, but its way too early to tell.
Also IMO Trengove will easily be our best KPB and eventually one of the best in the AFL.

IMO Gray is massively overrated by Port people. Saying he's going to be better than Hartlett is ridiculous. Hey, just opinion though.

 

[Geoffa32]

Gray can play contested footy.

Hartlett can not.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Different people have different opinions.
IMO Gray will easily be our best midfielder and one of our very few matchwinners if he can stay fit. Wingard may be a match winner as well eventually based on his one and only game, but its way too early to tell.
Also IMO Trengove will easily be our best KPB and eventually one of the best in the AFL.

Here we go again, how many years has this been said now?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

That's bullshit - you're telling me that you wouldn't be happy with a flag within 2-4 years because we didn't bottom out 7 years beforehand? That's based on the same crooked logic that says the Craig supporters can't wallow in future success because they didn't back the movement to get rid of him. What I was saying is that the perspective on the journey will change depending on the outcome.

There are people who will still be happy with mid-table finishes in 2-4 years because XYZ happened in that time frame - they're the ones that you have to worry about...

Umm.. what?

I'm saying that you can either be happy with what we are doing now because you think it will lead to success, or unhappy with what we are doing now because you don't think it will lead to success.

Of course "perspective will change depending on the outcome." So unless you're aiming to be a Monday expert, please have an opinion. Don't wait until events unfold and then let us know what your opinion would have been years before had you known the outcome.

 

[Glenno23]

I'm happy to where Sando is taking us. I think he has the right tools to get us to where we need to be. He has been nothing but impressive since he arrived and will only grow into his role and get better

i think that will be within 3 years too

 

[Mego Red]

He tries to be controversial, but why is it not convincing? Because he hedges himself and hides behind very favourable probabilities. His negative blather gives us a roadmap to what his comments would be like if we had Port's list and they ours. Our failure to draft durable players, how Port went for hard, contested ball winning players like Dangerfield and Sloane while our own Hamish Hartlett cannot get on the park for more than a week or two. Premierships are built on hard, inside footballers who can handle the intensity and physical nature of finals football. We'll never be able to get Hartlett/Gray through a finals series without breaking down, while the Crows are coming, and will win a flag some time down the track.

It's easier to predict not a premiership, than a premiership. And it's a lot easier to perpetually say a side is "coming", because invariably, eventually, they will. Trouble is CD, you've been predicting things for the Power since a long, long time ago and they've had about 1.5 list changeovers since then. So your predictions are wrong, unless you're telling us in 2006 you knew Hartlett would slide to Port at 4, that Wingard would slide to them at 7, etc etc..

You've backed yourself into a corner bro.

Brilliant.

 

[spenze]

You can have all the number 1 draft picks and still get it wrong - eg Melb.

To be fair though, Melbourne squandered those picks like Jack at the market trying to sell a cow.

I mean in 2008 they had pick 1 and pick 17 on which they took Jack Watts and Sam Blease. Without being to harsh both would struggle to get a game in a top 8 side.

They could have had Nic Nat and J Trengove ( whom I actually rate) or if they wanted a mid Shiels

Then in 2009 they had 4 picks in the top 18 and should have used this to top up their side. When the Hawks had two picks in the top 6 they took Buddy and Horrorhead but who do Melbourne take...4 mids.

It really doesn't matter if you get a top 5 pick if you waste it ( which should be Richmonds slogan come to think of it)

 

[Slippery Pete]

Didn't we bottom out the last two years?

 

[*PAF]

Didn't we bottom out the last two years?

SA being SA, to a lot of people bottoming out means finishing lower than the "other" team. So using that definition finishing 14th last year was not bottoming out.

 

[Macca19]

OK smart arse, please tell me how much "midfield star" Gray has actually played in the midfield?

Most of the last three years.

 

[johnnypanther]

Just slightly off tangent, but the essence of this thread shows what is wrong with the AFL - it is not a true competition - how is it that mediocre sides can be over-rewarded for their mediocrity, such that they can actually leapfrog a (for example) consistently hard working middle of the order or higher performing team.
No supporter should ever want to or even think of losing a game, yet the AFL has put people in that position due to the overly generous draft concessions.

IMO a strictly enforced salary cap plus the dollar handouts should be sufficient to help the mediocre clubs on field and off field respectively, in order to keep them competitive (as well as the extra 5 handicap games).

The reverse draft order should be such that over each rolling 18 year period, each club should have one pick 1, one pick 2,.....etc.

If Usain Bolt participated in the AFL "competition", they would shackle his legs with dead weights and given jet packs to his competitors.

 

[Slippery Pete]

The draft lottery (NBA style) is worth considering.

 

[Mattrox]

I would rather other clubs bottom out and get some good picks, develop the players, but have them disenchanted and trade to get these players who are now fired up and ready to play in a new club with the chance to succeed, where they wouldn't have at their previous club.

There will always be smart trades to be made for great young players from other teams.

Bottoming out should never be part of the Crows' Club culture!!!!

 

[ruscy002]

I'm saying that you can either be happy with what we are doing now because you think it will lead to success, or unhappy with what we are doing now because you don't think it will lead to success.

In which case you would have to lump me in the unhappy basket - not because we didn't bottom out, but because our "not bottoming out" strategy was dumb. Didn't trade aggressively, didn't prioritise player development, poor succession planning - did the football department even talk to the recruitment team in the last five years?

The redeeming feature and one of the main reasons that the next few years hold any hope is our drafting through the Rendell era - take Dangerfield, Sloane, Smith and Talia out of our list (not to mention some of the talent not currently in the 22) and its a sad and sorry state of affairs.

 

[Allefgib]

The draft lottery (NBA style) is worth considering.

Plus one

 

[ManInTheArena]

I would rather other clubs bottom out and get some good picks, develop the players, but have them disenchanted and trade to get these players who are now fired up and ready to play in a new club with the chance to succeed, where they wouldn't have at their previous club.

Yes, because awesome top draft pick players get traded all the time..

 

[ruscy002]

Plus one

Plus two

I like that it gives the lower placed teams the best chance of getting good picks but without guaranteeing it. Would be huge for a team between 7th-10th to be able to score a #1 pick and push them up to the next level.

 

[Slippery Pete]

It's also good because you tank at your own risk.

As it currently stands there's a guaranteed reward for tanking (even without the priority pick).

 

[Hell Boy6669]

Funny how average Boak and Hartlett looked today, Wingard was almost non existent

 

[Paladin]

Boak is dead set ordinary and has been for 2 years