Bob Brown resigns as Greens Leader - Milne elected leader

[volcboy]

You want people to engage with you, you need to have an open discussion. That involves elaborating on and justifying your position, rather than just posting narrow socratics and expecting people to kowtow to them.

It is all about the numbers, and IMO she doesn't have them. Bob Brown's patronage is the only reason she's sitting in that chair.

Maybe as a mod you should set an example then. Milne has 'the numbers' (as you call them), and was elected as leader. Brown's patronage has nothing to do with it. She is the most experienced senator and the only Green in the party room with leadership experience.

Then again, I am aware through having political discussions with you in the past that you have an irrational dislike of Bob Brown and the Greens.

 

[Inferno]

Bob Brown's autobiographer, James Norman, has an opinion piece in The Age with the banner

None of the Greens leader's achievements came easily

​

850 words later he hasn't named one achievement.

It's pretty well known what his achievements are, whether you agree with them or not.

And this quote from Brown illustrates what a hypocrite he is.

The prime minister has never, ever been given a mandate by the people of Australia to go to war with Iraq. The prime minister has abused the terms of freedom and democracy in his own country.
​

Where is the mandate for the carbon tax or gay marriage? Yet he has no problem pushing his agenda onto the people of Australia.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/po...into-his-political-sunset-20120414-1x0e6.html​

I'm unaware of when Brown was PM, and last time I checked he was elected with those policies being part of his parties platforms. It's not his fault that Gillard decided to perform the most epic of backflips and is out of touch with the majority of her own party and Labor voters on those two issues respectively.

 

[Eagle87]

Maybe as a mod you should set an example then. Milne has 'the numbers' (as you call them), and was elected as leader. Brown's patronage has nothing to do with it. She is the most experienced senator and the only Green in the party room with leadership experience.

Then again, I am aware through having political discussions with you in the past that you have an irrational dislike of Bob Brown and the Greens.

Actually, he explained his position, it's in the bits you quoted.

She was elected unopposed, no one doubts on Bobs say so. Once Bob is gone we shall see whether she retains support without Bob there.

In my past discussions regarding the Greens which involved Caesar his position on the greens seemed entirely rational. Their economic policies are bizarre.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Interesting. Tassie Greens leader Nick McKim has ruled himself out as the replacement Senator, which is surprising, because he has long been regarded as the anointed successor. People are now talking about Peg Putt (former state leader) and Greg Couter (the Greens candidate in Denison in 2010).

So, new party room will be as follows:

Milne (Tas) - Leader
Bandt (Vic) - Deputy
Di Natale (Vic)
Siewert (WA)
Ludlam (WA)
Hansen-Young (SA)
Wright (SA)
Rhiannon (NSW)
Waters (Qld)
Unknown (Tas)

Siewert, Waters and Milne are genuine environmental activists. The others are more focused on social issues. In that sense, I don't really expect Milne to stay at the head of the party for too long. Her expertise isn't in the areas that most of the party room are most concerned with, and she doesn't have the personal cachet of Bob Brown.

I dare say the only reason she was elected unopposed is because Bob made it clear she was his anointed successor. Once he's out of the way, we'll see the real rearranging of chairs.

I think you overstate the differences within the Greens on social issues. Yes there are people from different backgrounds but the leadership won't be governed on these issues. For example environmental issues, gay rights, asylum seeker policy, etc are pretty important across the party.

The real issue that causes differences is economics and the politics of the party. This is where the anarchist/ex-communist wing of the party (mainly the NSW part) disagrees strongly with much of the rest. Bob Brown (and Milne) realised that in order for a Green agenda to become important they needed to appeal to a bigger base and that idea is goes against much of what the Rhiannon types want. Also I can't imagine the ex-communists being happy with a market-based approach to tackling global warming.

I don't really see this as a shift in power though. Most of the Green's caucus are well and truly on the side of working towards a progressive, sustainable model that can have appeal throughout Australia rather than sticking fast to their ideology which will only ever appeal to a very small few.

I find it very interesting that Milne said she wants to target rural and regional Australia as well as work with businesses that want to move to a sustainable model. I think that shows a party that's moved from being popular in certain areas but hated elsewhere to a party that's trying to broaden its appeal and work with a far greater base. Overall that should be a very good thing.

I really don't see Milne facing a serious challenge any time soon. Sure SHY might have a crack but she's a loose cannon that surely the Green's wouldn't be stupid enough to back. Or Rhiannon might challenge the current power balance but again I think she only represents a very small minority of the overall party, particularly within caucus. The others with leadership potential are all fairly new to parliament and I can't see them challenging Milne until at least after the next election, probably longer.

 

[Max zero]

I really don't see Milne facing a serious challenge any time soon. Sure SHY might have a crack but she's a loose cannon that surely the Green's wouldn't be stupid enough to back. Or Rhiannon might challenge the current power balance but again I think she only represents a very small minority of the overall party, particularly within caucus. The others with leadership potential are all fairly new to parliament and I can't see them challenging Milne until at least after the next election, probably longer.

The point is how much of Milne's authority is based on the influence of Brown? Only time will tell.

What we do know is that SHY is extremely ambitious.

 

[maelcoluim]

Looks like the Greens will be putting a greater emphasis on promoting their economic platform.

Economy, mining tax, Greens' focus: Bandt

"NEW Greens deputy leader Adam Bandt wants to put economics at the centre of the Greens' pitch to voters.

A day after clinching the party's second-top job, Mr Bandt made a case to raise mining taxes, delay a return to budget surplus to avert a regional recession, vowed to deliver fully costed election policies and reopened a debate on lifting the retirement age..."

Full article: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/economy-mining-tax-greens-focus-bandt-20120414-1x0je.html

 

[Max zero]

Looks like the Greens will be putting a greater emphasis on promoting their economic platform.



Full article: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/economy-mining-tax-greens-focus-bandt-20120414-1x0je.html

He accused former prime minister John Howard and his treasurer, Peter Costello, of having ''frittered away'' the spoils of the first boom on cash payments that were ''unsustainable''.

Tackled on whether he was criticising the bonuses for aged pensioners that were part of that, he said: ''Towards the end of the Howard government, it was a case of buying votes.''

In that case I wonder what he thinks of of the 'overcompensation' from the carbon tax.

I guess that's an acceptable kind of vote buying.

I agree with a SWF although I wonder how that jives with the idea of delaying a return to surplus.

 

[Parker100]

The point is how much of Milne's authority is based on the influence of Brown? Only time will tell.

What we do know is that SHY is extremely ambitious.

I seriously don't think that Hanson Young will ever lead The Greens.

She doesn't have leadership quality and Bandt is by far the best placed person to lead the party.

 

[volcboy]

Actually, he explained his position, it's in the bits you quoted.

Where exactly? He said 'IMO', as in 'In My Opinion', and an opinion is just that; an opinion. He also disregarded the fact that, as a Tasmanian living in Launceston, I actually know some of the protagonists in this issue personally and/or socially.

She was elected unopposed, no one doubts on Bobs say so. Once Bob is gone we shall see whether she retains support without Bob there.

See above. They had a vote, Christine won. I discussed the possible ramifications of a diverging state-based ideological difference in the future in an earlier post. With the current party room, she will retain support.

In my past discussions regarding the Greens which involved Caesar his position on the greens seemed entirely rational. Their economic policies are bizarre.

Coming from your political perspective, I'm sure they did. You have a lot in common, but what you have in common does not include a local perspective.

 

[DarwinRoo]

What ?- I'm not allowed to point out that the last 3 leaders of Labor governments have been women ...oh ..wait ...Labor governments ..... that explains it.
They are embarrassing the to average female ....

Yes - I am a woman - thats why I can say what you are all thinking anyhow .....

Some guy on Contrarians just called Gillard a muppett ...on National TV ! Don't think my comment is that bad after all

Im sorry does having a female in power bother you? Should they all be back in the kitchen and let the men make all the decisions?

Those 3 are all intelligent women who have earned the right to be in the positions that they were in.

I don't think they are the problem, I think you are the problem, no wonder why you are a Lib.

 

[Eagle87]

Where exactly? He said 'IMO', as in 'In My Opinion', and an opinion is just that; an opinion. He also disregarded the fact that, as a Tasmanian living in Launceston, I actually know some of the protagonists in this issue personally and/or socially.

Bully for you...

We should accept your deepy considered view because you know some people personally?

FFS .....

See above. They had a vote, Christine won. I discussed the possible ramifications of a diverging state-based ideological difference in the future in an earlier post. With the current party room, she will retain support.

She was the only candidate that stood. The Chinese have similar votes.

She was proposed by the much loved Brown while he was there and is still invovled. The test comes later. I'd reckon many with knowledge of most of the people involved have suggested similar in most of the political press in the last few days. But maybe your special knowledge of folks in Tassie overrides that ...

Coming from your political perspective, I'm sure they did. You have a lot in common, but what you have in common does not include a local perspective.

You suggested he had an irrational view on the Greens and Brown. His view as expressed on this Board has been based in large part after review of their policies. Particularly economic ones. As such his view is rational. That was my point.

The fact that you know some people in Tassie doesn't make his view irrational.

It does however throw into doubt the rationaility of your views given the position of Tasmania on most rational, economic measures ....

But hey, you have that special local knowledge ....

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Milne is 10% of the Greens party room.

When was the last time 10% of the Labor caucus and Liberal party room stood for the leadership?

 

[NTRabbit]

SHY not only makes Cheryl Kernot look unambitious, she also makes her look like a competent leader.

She'll challenge as soon as Bob Brown's shadow is no longer over the party room. I hope the money wasting, self absorbed trash is destroyed.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Where exactly? He said 'IMO', as in 'In My Opinion', and an opinion is just that; an opinion. He also disregarded the fact that, as a Tasmanian living in Launceston, I actually know some of the protagonists in this issue personally and/or socially.

Out of curiosity are any of these people you know part of the 11.6% of men who have lost full time employment in the last 3.5 years or are any of these people you know part of the 5.5% of women who have lost full time employment in the last 3.5 years?

Just curious as if they had lost their job and had little hope of getting another one they would have alot more time on their hands to be "Protagonists".

 

[Dry Rot]

Has Swan's budget just got a lot harder?

Looks like it

Greens flag fight over budget cuts as Christine Milne targets push for surplus
BY: SID MAHER From: The Australian April 16, 2012 12:00AM

THE Greens have declared they will fight any attempt by the government to use cuts to the public service, family benefits or research and development funding to return the budget to surplus. New Greens leader Christine Milne has flagged that the party will instead pursue more spending measures, including a rise in unemployment allowances, a national dental health scheme and a boost to schools funding.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...push-for-surplus/story-fn59nsif-1226327271770

Another bad planet lines up for Gillard.

 

[hoianbulldog]

I would have thought that having 2 treasurers would have made the task easier.

 

[carloss]

The Greens use the word "sustainable" a lot.
I guess it's not going to be a feature of their economic policy.

 

[Footy Smarts]

The Greens use the word "sustainable" a lot.
I guess it's not going to be a feature of their economic policy.

Interestingly they're the only party that's in agreement with most economists that the budget shouldn't be rushed back to surplus.

 

[Belnakor]

Interestingly they're the only party that's in agreement with most economists that the budget shouldn't be rushed back to surplus.

If the greens had their way the budget would never be in surplus

 

[hoianbulldog]

We have our first candidate for the vacant senate seat.

http://www.examiner.com.au/news/loc...owner-keen-to-fill-brown-vacancy/2521828.aspx

For those without local knowledge the East Tamar is where Gunns are building the pulp mill.

 

[maelcoluim]

SHY not only makes Cheryl Kernot look unambitious, she also makes her look like a competent leader.

She'll challenge as soon as Bob Brown's shadow is no longer over the party room. I hope the money wasting, self absorbed trash is destroyed.

I seriously doubt that Hanson-Young will ever ocupy a leadership position within The Greens. She's contested 2 deputy leadership elections already and lost both of them, her own party doesn't seem to have a lot of confidence in her.

IMO it's highly unlikely that there'll be a challenge against Milne before the next election as it would lead to perceptions that the party is in internal disarray, vou'd think that solidifying their parliamentary position would come before any extremely short-term personal ambition. A leadership challenge is far more likely after the next election if they perform poorly.

 

[Footy Smarts]

If the greens had their way the budget would never be in surplus

You may believe that would be a consequence of their policies but it's definitely not their aim. From the other day:

"Mr Bandt said the Greens believed in balancing the budget over the course of the economic cycle but would rather not see a sharp turnaround this year."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...focus-bandt-20120414-1x0je.html#ixzz1sAMDxb4v
​

 

[Suspense]

And all those male voter breadwinners in Qld and NSW will have two women droning on at them about clear energy until the next election. Whata hoot.

heheh

 

[cancat]

I'm unaware of when Brown was PM, and last time I checked he was elected with those policies being part of his parties platforms. It's not his fault that Gillard decided to perform the most epic of backflips and is out of touch with the majority of her own party and Labor voters on those two issues respectively.

Then by your logic Brown should be calling out Gillard like he did with Howard for introducing policies without mandate and for abusing the terms of freedom and democracy in his own country. But of course he never would because she is implementing his policy.

 

[Max zero]

You may believe that would be a consequence of their policies but it's definitely not their aim. From the other day:

"Mr Bandt said the Greens believed in balancing the budget over the course of the economic cycle but would rather not see a sharp turnaround this year."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/polit...focus-bandt-20120414-1x0je.html#ixzz1sAMDxb4v
​

Well I am reassured...not.

Talk is cheap. The problem is Green economic policies in the past (the few they released but rarely independently cost) don't back up this idea.

So far every economic idea the Greens have suggested involves spending more money while opposing any spending cuts. As I said earlier how does that jive with idea of balancing the budget either in the short or long term?

The impression I have had of the Greens is that they have all these wonderful ideas on how to make life better for everyone but very little explanation on how they will pay for it. The comments from the last few days have done nothing go dispel this view (the opposite in fact).