Roast Dear Dimma

[Spluff]

But yeah lets blame Hardwick and not credit the opposition for working us out, guess it makes a much better story.

That's a flawed argument RT. A gameplan is only as good as how it holds up against opposition coaches - we don't exist in a vacuum. You can't say Hardwick is a great coach, he's come up with a great gameplan - unfortunately it doesn't work against other coaches. That just doesn't make sense.

 

[theflea]

someone to replace Mark Williams (not choco edition) would be a nice start

Voss.

 

[theflea]

It is Hardwicks game plan. He wants them to kick it around until they open up an opportunity to run and carry.... Because he saw Hawthorn do it when he was an assistant.

Problem is Hawthorn have the best kicks in the league and don't chip but penetrate. Their ball travels fast and opens up the run.

Hardwick needs to realise we are only good when we are competing and taking risks. We need to rely on winning 50/50s and taking contested marks, and we need to run the middle. We need to be fast and we need to move the slow players on!

The hawks don't get the credit for the separation they get which enable their kicking to work. This is what we need to work on, then you can quickly execute the kicks as the have the space to do so.

 

[rideclutch]

What worries me is after every break we come out and start chipping the ball around..... trying to keep possession etc... when its clear to everyone that when we start moving the ball quick we score.

Cleary some kind of mentality/leadership issue. How can you explain the first half vs the Dogs, a side we thumped twice last year but refused to move the ball quickly against this time? If it's not the coach, there's a massive communication breakdown somewhere.

 

[cairo tiger]

Our game plan is to use run & carry and spread from the contest which creates fast ball movement. Every other team knows that and plans accordingly hence the numbers behind the ball and outside the stoppage, forcing us into the slow down play that gets us nowhere. But yeah lets blame Hardwick and not credit the opposition for working us out, guess it makes a much better story.

of course I blame ardwick because he should have plan b and c. he has shown that he does not. case in point last night. this is poor coaching and direction.

 

[cairo tiger]

If it was the coach feeding them instructions, Dimma and the players would be defending the practice instead of saying it's something they want to get away from.

As for the fact they haven't been doing the run and carry thing all year --possibly it's escaped your attention that they've done it for at least one quarter in each game we've played AND Dimma keeps drawing attention to those quarters as being precisely the sort of football he wants the team to play.

Again, the issue isn't the game plan, the issue is execution.

look I can agree with that to a point but this is exactly when good coaching comes in. they see that the opposition does this to us so we need to do that to them. change it up. move players, restructure, have game plan b and c. this is good coaching. he should spend some time with lyon.

 

[tigs2010]

Our game plan is to use run & carry and spread from the contest which creates fast ball movement. Every other team knows that and plans accordingly hence the numbers behind the ball and outside the stoppage, forcing us into the slow down play that gets us nowhere. But yeah lets blame Hardwick and not credit the opposition for working us out, guess it makes a much better story.

If our game plan has been worked out it might not be a bad idea to do something different. Pretty sure what you're saying is all Hardwick's (and the other coaches) fault.

 

[ohhhBigMalcho]

this slow chip chip gamestyle is ruining our game Dimma, we can play this to quell an oppositions momentum, but it will not win a game of football as seen in the first few rounds. when we go fast, take the game on, show some overlap... this is when we are at our best. it makes players like Grigg, Houli, Ellis ect actually look decent because it suits there gamestyle, any player can look lazy playing the chip chip style.

i am not sure how we will go against the hawks who are in white hot form, but we need to approach it with the latter tactical style, not the former

 

[_RT_]

of course I blame ardwick because he should have plan b and c. he has shown that he does not. case in point last night. this is poor coaching and direction.

What do you think the chip chip game is all about then, it's our plan B, unfortunately though we don't have the ability to do it for long enough without turning it over. If we did it would then force the opposition into trying something different which might then allow us to get plan A back up and running.

Perhaps you would have been happy when the Lions had 15-18 players in our half of the ground if we simply just kept banging the ball in and then watching as the Lions rebounded and scored against us, oh wait that is what happened, until we went to the chip around style and dragged the Lions out and opened the game up.

 

[_RT_]

If our game plan has been worked out it might not be a bad idea to do something different. Pretty sure what you're saying is all Hardwick's (and the other coaches) fault.

We do go to something else, which is the chip around and maintain possession style, as I said we don't have the ability to do it for long enough to force the opposition to change their game plan. So they sit back and wait for the inevitable turnover and make us pay. Last night against the Lions we were fortunate IMO that they weren't able to maintain that style of play that frustrates us and it opened up for us. The Hawks and Geelong will do it and do it for a long period and they are both good enough to make us pay dearly for any errors.

 

[cairo tiger]

What do you think the chip chip game is all about then, it's our plan B, unfortunately though we don't have the ability to do it for long enough without turning it over. If we did it would then force the opposition into trying something different which might then allow us to get plan A back up and running.

Perhaps you would have been happy when the Lions had 15-18 players in our half of the ground if we simply just kept banging the ball in and then watching as the Lions rebounded and scored against us, oh wait that is what happened, until we went to the chip around style and dragged the Lions out and opened the game up.

thats a crap response from someone who does not understand coaching or game plan. we dont have the skills to execute a hawthorn gameplan!
when we go to that methodology, the team closes up, we dont have the skill or the nous to do that, but yet he persists with it, and our players actually do not know how to do it because of their poor skill and intelligencia. hardwick has not offered any alternative, it is so easy to coach against him.

 

[tigs2010]

We do go to something else, which is the chip around and maintain possession style, as I said we don't have the ability to do it for long enough to force the opposition to change their game plan. So they sit back and wait for the inevitable turnover and make us pay. Last night against the Lions we were fortunate IMO that they weren't able to maintain that style of play that frustrates us and it opened up for us. The Hawks and Geelong will do it and do it for a long period and they are both good enough to make us pay dearly for any errors.

Not disagreeing with you on this post. Just saying your other post doesn't make sense. If your other post was spot on then it would be entirely Dimma's fault.

 

[_RT_]

That's a flawed argument RT. A gameplan is only as good as how it holds up against opposition coaches - we don't exist in a vacuum. You can't say Hardwick is a great coach, he's come up with a great gameplan - unfortunately it doesn't work against other coaches. That just doesn't make sense.

Last year when our game plan wasn't quite worked out we were able to get away with it most of the time, this year we've been worked and now it's up to Hardwick and co to make adjustments to counter the tactics that are working against us.

 

[_RT_]

thats a crap response from someone who does not understand coaching or game plan. we dont have the skills to execute a hawthorn gameplan!
when we go to that methodology, the team closes up, we dont have the skill or the nous to do that, but yet he persists with it, and our players actually do not know how to do it because of their poor skill and intelligencia. hardwick has not offered any alternative, it is so easy to coach against him.

Like I said would you prefer we just stick with plan A and then sit back and watch as the ball goes back over our heads for easy scores to the opposition because we're all pushing forward to try and maintain the quick run & carry and spread from the contest. That is exactly what happened against Collingwood last week they had 1 spare in our F50 all game and every time we went long and quick we were out numbered in at the contest and the Pies were able to rebound quickly and score easily. It was only when we made the spare accountable in the last quarter that we were able to open up the game and get it back on our terms, still we let them kick 6 goals to our 7. Trying to win shootouts will not get us very far especially against the good teams that can and will make us pay for the inevitable turnover that comes from us just banging away regardless.

 

[cairo tiger]

Like I said would you prefer we just stick with plan A and then sit back and watch as the ball goes back over our heads for easy scores to the opposition because we're all pushing forward to try and maintain the quick run & carry and spread from the contest. That is exactly what happened against Collingwood last week they had 1 spare in our F50 all game and every time we went long and quick we were out numbered in at the contest and the Pies were able to rebound quickly and score easily. It was only when we made the spare accountable in the last quarter that we were able to open up the game and get it back on our terms, still we let them kick 6 goals to our 7. Trying to win shootouts will not get us very far especially against the good teams that can and will make us pay for the inevitable turnover that comes from us just banging away regardless.

you really dont read posts do you. just sprout your amazing philosophy, which when you stack it uo offers nothing.

If you read my posts I say that our coaching staff need to come up with different game plans according to the situation. that is what great coaching is about.

run carry can only go one for so long. then it is chip which we cannot do (see posts) then it is what. we need to watch blokes like lyon who are masters of getting the feel for the game and reacting.

 

[nut]

We do go to something else, which is the chip around and maintain possession style, as I said we don't have the ability to do it for long enough to force the opposition to change their game plan. So they sit back and wait for the inevitable turnover and make us pay. Last night against the Lions we were fortunate IMO that they weren't able to maintain that style of play that frustrates us and it opened up for us. The Hawks and Geelong will do it and do it for a long period and they are both good enough to make us pay dearly for any errors.

No one has the ability to sustain this type of game plan... not even Hawthorn. Hawthorn have a lead into space game plan.... the kick to contest 40 meter away rather than 20 like we do..... our game plan puts added pressure on the kicker and receiver.

 

[_RT_]

Not disagreeing with you on this post. Just saying your other post doesn't make sense. If your other post was spot on then it would be entirely Dimma's fault.

The dropping of Vickery this week IMO was the tweak in game plan that was needed. Last night the ball was locked in our forward half once it hit the ground rather than having an easy rebound 50 like we saw the first 4 weeks. It will be interesting to see how the change works the next 2 weeks against 2 very disciplined defensive units.

 

[tigs2010]

The dropping of Vickery this week IMO was the tweak in game plan that was needed. Last night the ball was locked in our forward half once it hit the ground rather than having an easy rebound 50 like we saw the first 4 weeks. It will be interesting to see how the change works the next 2 weeks against 2 very disciplined defensive units.

Hopefully we stick to it. I thought Petterd might play the 3rd tall but Dusty was great in that role.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Why is that when we flood the opposition seem to still find easy goals ala Elimination final

 

[_RT_]

you really dont read posts do you. just sprout your amazing philosophy, which when you stack it uo offers nothing.

If you read my posts I say that our coaching staff need to come up with different game plans according to the situation. that is what great coaching is about.

run carry can only go one for so long. then it is chip which we cannot do (see posts) then it is what. we need to watch blokes like lyon who are masters of getting the feel for the game and reacting.

So when the opposition stops our run and spread and have numbers behind the ball what would be your plan to counter it?

Is it the tactic that we currently employ of trying to maintain possession and force the opposition to change?

OR

Is it to just continue to stick with plan A and just bang the ball forward and hope that by some miracle we win enough of the ball when out numbered that we score enough to beat the opposition?

 

[_RT_]

No one has the ability to sustain this type of game plan... not even Hawthorn. Hawthorn have a lead into space game plan.... the kick to contest 40 meter away rather than 20 like we do..... our game plan puts added pressure on the kicker and receiver.

Which type of game plan are you talking about? Our secondary game plan of trying to maintain possession or the main game plan which is to go out and try move the ball quickly?

 

[cairo tiger]

Which type of game plan are you talking about? Our secondary game plan of trying to maintain possession or the main game plan which is to go out and try move the ball quickly?

I give up.
I said we dont have sustainable different game plans and said that was an indictment on our coaching staff.
You said I dont know. you go around in circles. play ring a rosie with someone else.

 

[_RT_]

Hopefully we stick to it. I thought Petterd might play the 3rd tall but Dusty was great in that role.

Thought last night the run and spread game plan worked a treat when we had it up and running properly. Also thought for the most part the slow down chip it around tactic worked better as we had that extra runner to look for rather than having to go to a tall that was useless once the ball hit the ground.

Next week against the Hawks we know that, at times, they are going to get numbers behind the ball and look to force us into making the same silly mistakes that have cost us against poorer sides. With the extra runner in the line up we need to be disciplined and make sure that we hit up the lead up target and drag the Hawks players out of the their defensive structure. Then when the opportunity presents for us to use our run and spread we need to be prepared to take it on and not go into our shells and be scared of making a mistake. It's how we've beaten the Hawks the last 2 years.

 

[aislegi]

Why is that when we flood the opposition seem to still find easy goals ala Elimination final

My recollection was that we made a lot of bumbling attempts to score goals and Carlton moved the ball from one end to the other for a string of easy goals in a wide open field; I can hardly recall any defensive structure

 

[tigs2010]

Thought last night the run and spread game plan worked a treat when we had it up and running properly. Also thought for the most part the slow down chip it around tactic worked better as we had that extra runner to look for rather than having to go to a tall that was useless once the ball hit the ground.

Next week against the Hawks we know that, at times, they are going to get numbers behind the ball and look to force us into making the same silly mistakes that have cost us against poorer sides. With the extra runner in the line up we need to be disciplined and make sure that we hit up the lead up target and drag the Hawks players out of the their defensive structure. Then when the opportunity presents for us to use our run and spread we need to be prepared to take it on and not go into our shells and be scared of making a mistake. It's how we've beaten the Hawks the last 2 years.

Agree on the run and carry. It almost happened by accident when Cotchin threw in a hospital handpass to Ellis in the middle who had to quickly dish it off and then we were away.

Disagree with the chip chip tempo crap. Was poo again because there are too many poor kicks still.

Was funny in the first half that it was Petterd that was willing to take the game on with his kicking. By moving it quickly he had options. Why can't our good kicks bloody do this from the get go?

We still have some issues but if we can carry our 4th quarter form into next week we will at least put up a fight. Start like the last 3 weeks and we will be 70-80 down by half time.