Analysis Hird or Thompson: Your decison

[HirdyLannister]

And that's the crux of it. Hird declined to fight his charges on the basis that he'd be back in 2015 as Senior Coach. To change now would be morally reprehensible and probably the most unethical thing the club has done since the salary cap cheating.

 

[baz_machine]

Just to jog your memories

 

[rines]

By the same token.. IF Thompon and the players would prefer Hird stays 'away' for Round 23 or whatever.. then that is cool with me too. I'm sure it will be cool with Hird as well.. whatever is best for the team.

This is about Hird coaching next year.. not happens at the end of August till (hopefully) the end of September.

Having said that.. I have a strong feeling the players will want Hird 'back' ASAP.

 

[baz_machine]

Also I'm pretty sure Hird would already be getting ready for trade week / delistings / draft week.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I don't care whether he has an actual match day function, Hird simply MUST be in the box in Rd 23 as a message that WE and WE ALONE decide what we do with our club.

 

[Doss]

Hird had us at 14 - 3. People have short memories.

/End thread

13-3 was the best we got to.

 

[Ladson]

A couple of major changes I have seen this year with Bomber as coach

• Not afraid to give younger blokes a go - Zach Merret, Gleeson stand outs for me for this year
• Back line seems to be structured better defensively, in 17 games only allowed opposition to score 1292 (third best in competition behind Freo and Sydney
• Bomber has managed to create a decent forward line without Crameri, Gumbleton, Bellchambers or Davey
• Players across the ground seem to communicating better
• We don't look like fading away again this year, based on current form

I am not convinced about Hird coming back as Senior Coach next year, if the whole ASADA/Legal crap/media circus will still be going on, how is Hird expected to coach the Bombers at the best of his abilities?

Yes Hird is contracted back for the next 2 years, I will be happy when he returns to the club, at the same time his position should be what ever is best for the club in 2015. If Bomber Thompson gets us into the 8, and we win a final, I wonder how many Essendon supporters will want Hirdy back as coach.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Hird had us at 14 - 3. People have short memories.

/End thread

Hird and Bomber. Not just Hird.

 

[Jam123]

I'm torn. Hird was pretty good the last few years lets be honest here. The general public don't recognise how good he was. Had us playing like a top 4 side. Bomber seems to have us peaking at the right end of the season.

I'd be happy if Hird was the senior coach with Thompson as a senior assistant like it used to be or Thompson as senior coach with Hird as assistant if Essendon go deep into the finals. I'm talking prelim here.

I think it is vital for us to have Thompson at Essenon next year so that he can inform Hird of the things that he missed. Plus he knows too much about the club and our players for me to be comfortable with him leaving to another club.

So I picked Bomber for this reason. I want to see what he can do if given a couple of years as the senior coach. It is no secret that he knows how to win a premiership in the modern era.

 

[baz_machine]

Hird and Bomber. Not just Hird.

Ah this old chestnut

Essendon playing well - Must be Bomber doing the coaching. Essendon not playing well - Hird can't coach

 

[baz_machine]

Hird and Bomber. Not just Hird.

Also further to this, didn't we have interviews where Thompson basically said he wasn't doing that much as an assistant? How much work was he really doing except munching on a couple of Subs?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Hird and Bomber. Not just Hird.

See this shits me. Bomber gets the credit for everything Hird has done right, and Hird gets the blame for everything that's gone wrong.

Hird and Bomber had the team playing well at the start of the season in previous years, but Hird had the team fading out and Bomber fixed that. Rubbish.

This team is part of a long term strategy that Hird and Bomber have put together along with McCartney, Wellman and Goodwin. The core tenets of the gameplan and the list management were put in place in 2010/11 and there's been a consistent and coherent look to the team's playing style since Round 1 2011. With the exception of the first few rounds of this year (Thompson even said that that wasn't what they expected or planned for), this team has been unmistakably a Hird/Thompson team.

The only things you can really mark Bomber on is matchday coaching this year, which has been a mixed bag. For every Port Adelaide masterclass there's been a St Kilda debacle.

 

[Jam123]

A couple of major changes I have seen this year with Bomber as coach

• Not afraid to give younger blokes a go - Zach Merret, Gleeson stand outs for me for this year
• Back line seems to be structured better defensively, in 17 games only allowed opposition to score 1292 (third best in competition behind Freo and Sydney
• Bomber has managed to create a decent forward line without Crameri, Gumbleton, Bellchambers or Davey
• Players across the ground seem to communicating better
• We don't look like fading away again this year, based on current form

I am not convinced about Hird coming back as Senior Coach next year, if the whole ASADA/Legal crap/media circus will still be going on, how is Hird expected to coach the Bombers at the best of his abilities?

Yes Hird is contracted back for the next 2 years, I will be happy when he returns to the club, at the same time his position should be what ever is best for the club in 2015. If Bomber Thompson gets us into the 8, and we win a final, I wonder how many Essendon supporters will want Hirdy back as coach.

We were also top 4 in points against last year at round 17 before we went to sh*t. Only Fremantle, Sydney and Richmond were ahead.
Although I do agree that I would consider our defence elite this year. I don't think the difference is major between the two. We've seen our comebacks from behind, the upset losses, the narrow wins and the thumping wins.

One of the best things that Bomber has done is keeping Carlisle at full forward, taking risks and blooding the youngsters like Zach Merret, Gleeson and of course luring Chapman to the side. I think that however is more to do with him knowing that he has only 1 year.

The reason why I would have Bomber ahead at the moment is because of the experience and proven success. I just think that he needs to stay on, whether as senior coach or senior assistant.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Ah this old chestnut

Essendon playing well - Must be Bomber doing the coaching. Essendon not playing well - Hird can't coach

I'm not sure how you've extrapolated that from my response...

I completely disagree with the parsing of responsibility in any form. As far as I'm concerned, everything up till the end of last season was a joint effort. This season, where ever it ends up, is probably more of a 70-30 outcome, in Bomber's favour. Hird wasn't present, but the team was on a trajectory, which accounts for a fair bit.

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

Also further to this, didn't we have interviews where Thompson basically said he wasn't doing that much as an assistant? How much work was he really doing except munching on a couple of Subs?

Yeah - I'm sure he was getting paid for eating sandwiches...

 

[scottmclaren]

I don't care whether he has an actual match day function, Hird simply MUST be in the box in Rd 23 as a message that WE and WE ALONE decide what we do with our club.

How is it that Malthouse should accept footage of himself in the box because it's part of the game now, but Hird sitting in the box would be disruptive. It is beyond belief how it is even an issue.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

• Not afraid to give younger blokes a go - Zach Merret, Gleeson stand outs for me for this year
• Back line seems to be structured better defensively, in 17 games only allowed opposition to score 1292 (third best in competition behind Freo and Sydney
• Bomber has managed to create a decent forward line without Crameri, Gumbleton, Bellchambers or Davey
• Players across the ground seem to communicating better
• We don't look like fading away again this year, based on current form

My responses:

• Jackson Merrett 13 games last year, Nick Kommer 19, Mark Baguley 21. 2nd, 1st and 2nd year players respectively.
• Average points conceded across the whole competition last year was 81.97 per game. We conceded 90.91, but if you stop at the point the players clearly gave up, it drops down to 81.81. Slightly unscientific, but before the Hawthorn game (81.81) to including and after the Hawthorn game (115.17) is clearly distorting the figures there. 81.81 would have had us 5th on points against last year. In the same period we were on track to be the 3rd highest scoring team across the season (extrapolating the first 16 games across 22 would have us scoring 2365 instead of the 2145 we finished with).
• Our forwardline has been a complete rabble barring the last two weeks. Before that point, midfielders/ruckmen represented 2nd, =4th, =4th, =6th, =6th, 11th, =12th and 15th in our top 15 goal-kickers. 8 of our top 15 and 3 of our top 5 were mids (the other two were Daniher and Chappy).
• Of course, the group is maturing
• Something the entire club, Hird included, has been planning for and would have been the same whether Hird, Thompson, Knights, Scott Watters or Wayne f'n Brittain was coach

 

[Alfred E Neuman]

See this shits me. Bomber gets the credit for everything Hird has done right, and Hird gets the blame for everything that's gone wrong.

Hird and Bomber had the team playing well at the start of the season in previous years, but Hird had the team fading out and Bomber fixed that. Rubbish.

This team is part of a long term strategy that Hird and Bomber have put together along with McCartney, Wellman and Goodwin. The core tenets of the gameplan and the list management were put in place in 2010/11 and there's been a consistent and coherent look to the team's playing style since Round 1 2011. With the exception of the first few rounds of this year (Thompson even said that that wasn't what they expected or planned for), this team has been unmistakably a Hird/Thompson team.

The only things you can really mark Bomber on is matchday coaching this year, which has been a mixed bag. For every Port Adelaide masterclass there's been a St Kilda debacle.

What exactly shits you about my response? - I've copied and pasted my response to Baz below, which also applies here. As far as I can tell we are in agreement?!

"I completely disagree with the parsing of responsibility in any form. As far as I'm concerned, everything up till the end of last season was a joint effort. This season, where ever it ends up, is probably more of a 70-30 outcome, in Bomber's favour. Hird wasn't present, but the team was on a trajectory, which accounts for a fair bit."

 

[Ben the Gooner]

What exactly shits you about my response? - I've copied and pasted my response to Baz below, which also applies here. As far as I can tell we are in agreement?!

"I completely disagree with the parsing of responsibility in any form. As far as I'm concerned, everything up till the end of last season was a joint effort. This season, where ever it ends up, is probably more of a 70-30 outcome, in Bomber's favour. Hird wasn't present, but the team was on a trajectory, which accounts for a fair bit."

Not you specifically, but as you said, the parsing of responsibility shits me. I wasn't trying to pin that on you, although by quoting you I didn't make that very clear.

 

[Doss]

Ah this old chestnut

Essendon playing well - Must be Bomber doing the coaching. Essendon not playing well - Hird can't coach

No. That's like saying our form this year has no relation to Hird. He'd still be involved from afar, and the progression of the players and teams is partly a result of fruit being reaped from the years of Hird being senior coach.

And it's gone the other way at times, too. When our form has been questionable at times this year, it's been all Bomber's fault in the eyes of some, even though some of the dips in form have been continuations of deficiencies that plagued us in 2011-13 as well.

All in all, the whole blame game in either direction is quite problematic.

 

[rumply]

May have already been mentioned, but who is to say that the direction Bomber has taken the team this year - tightening up defence, blood youngsters, Carlisle fwd etc - is not the long term planning the coaching team, including Hird, had decided on late last year?

 

[Ben the Gooner]

May have already been mentioned, but who is to say that the direction Bomber has taken the team this year - tightening up defence, blood youngsters, Carlisle fwd etc - is not the long term planning the coaching team, including Hird, had decided on last year?

Doesn't suit the "let's turn into Carlton and fail to honour contracts for no discernible benefits" angle though.

 

[baz_machine]

No. That's like saying our form this year has no relation to Hird. He'd still be involved from afar, and the progression of the players and teams is partly a result of fruit being reaped from the years of Hird being senior coach.

And it's gone the other way at times, too. When our form has been questionable at times this year, it's been all Bomber's fault in the eyes of some, even though some of the dips in form have been continuations of deficiencies that plagued us in 2011-13 as well.

All in all, the whole blame game in either direction is quite problematic.

Totally agree.

I think my position can be summarized by the belief that this is Hird's team first and foremost with helping from various people at the edges.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

Its actually starting to bug me. Look I have absolutely no doubt Bomber had a massive roll in that, but anyone saying Thompsons 2014 side is performing better than Hirds 2013 side is absolutely kidding themselves.

 

[ant555]

My opinion is irrelevant as is every other opinion. Hird will be back, players love him, club wants him, Bomber knows he is coaching the side next year.
End or story.