Bit like international community, you and your allies.
Israel, Palestine, and everything related
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Bit like international community, you and your allies.
Why is there a bigger focus on this when you have an even worse situation unfolding in Syria? More people dead in the last 72 hours than the last how many weeks of this conflict?
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Fair point and thanks for bringing the Syria situation back to my attention.
slicedndiced
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Because the people driving the narrative want to maintain the position that one side here is "the good guys" and the other "the baddies"?
The situation in Syria is not so easily elucidated.
Hamas = terrorists = destruction of Jews = baddies
Hamas = terrorists = destruction of Jews = baddies
slicedndiced
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Kynge of Begrem
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The thing about this situation is there is no comic book heros nor villans. Both sides are committing atrocities and I am grateful I live in a country that is free of this type of deep, generationally entrenched, hatred.
00Stinger
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Again, there are no 'goodies' in this, but this is disgraceful (my emphasis)
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip. As soon as the rockets were discovered, UNRWA staff were withdrawn from the premises, and so we are unable to confirm the precise number of rockets. The school is situated between two other UNRWA schools that currently each accommodate 1,500 internally displaced persons
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools
Today, in the course of the regular inspection of its premises, UNRWA discovered rockets hidden in a vacant school in the Gaza Strip. As soon as the rockets were discovered, UNRWA staff were withdrawn from the premises, and so we are unable to confirm the precise number of rockets. The school is situated between two other UNRWA schools that currently each accommodate 1,500 internally displaced persons
This is the definition of a generalisation. Just because you say it, does not make it true buddy. That's like me saying, all Arabs and all French are anti-semites and want every Jew dead. You do not need to stoop to these low levels.
I always said I oppose settlement activity - that relates to the West Bank.
But Israel is not trying to take land in Gaza. This is not getting bigger for Israel. They withdraw 10 years ago (here they uprooted every settler and settlement and left the Palestinians with Greenhouses and all the materials needed to build up their society and what did they do? tear down the greenhouses, elect a terrorist organisation (who executed their rival Fatah ministers and those who opposed them), turn gaza into a massive military base full of terror at the expense of building up their own commerce and community. For this I totally blame them for letting Hamas destroy them. Maybe they didn't think it would be this bad, but they certainly let it happen.
They (hamas) do this because they want to harm, murder and destroy Israel and their citizens over building their own nation. Unlike your post - this IS NOT a generalisation. If I were wrong, they would use what resources they have to build their society and there would be no 'terror tunnels' The evidence is clear.
Also - where is your blame for egypt? they are the ones blocking resources coming in the other way in are they not?
What is wrong with you? you don't read my posts in full do you? I said you are free to critisize Israel for civilian casualties. And I said they are not striking gaza in response to the 3 teenagers. They are doing it to stop the 1000s of rockets aimed at the heads of every Israeli citizen and their dog.
But you cannot lay blame just on one side here. I critize Israel for some things they do. But Where is your blame on Hamas for endangering their civilians by hiding rockets in schools, mosques and hospitals? Where is your blame on Hamas when they instruct civilians to stand on rooftops to protect their weapons and cowering terrorists? where is your blame on Hamas when they fire rockets from children playgrounds?
Do you actually think Hamas are not trying to win over the international media by holding their own civilians hostage? If they know Israel is going to strike, why do they continue to uphold these evil tactics if they know their civilians will die?
Answer: They are terrorists who care more about international media pressure in order to get their demands (release of prisoners that have killed innocent civilians) over and above the value of their civilians.
If you honestly cannot see any blame for a jihadist leader hiding rockets in a primary school than you are clearly biased and a terrorist sympathizer.
Here you go again with your vague unsupported generalisations. It's people like you that sway those who are 'uneducated on this conflict' with your baseless propaganda.
Israel are not ethnically cleansing anyone and I resent this. This current conflict is about stopping rockets hitting their civilians, not about killing everyone Palestinian they can find.
If the Taliban were hiding in the outer subburbs shooting rockets at the CBD, using underground tunnels to kidnap Melbournians on the way to work - would you let this happen? What if these outer suburbs were GIVEN in good faith to the Taliban in a showing for peace and this is how they repay you? If you answer one question in this whole post I want you to answer this question.
ISRAELIS are required to join the army because the country is constantly subject to attacks. Once they serve their 2 years they are OUT OF THE ARMY. Have you lived in country where there is a constant risk of taking a bus?
Around 10,000 Israelis have been murdered in suicide and other terrorist attacks in the last 60 years (outside of wars). What the actual f*ck.
The Palestinian civilian population
Comprehension mate.
I said civilian deaths on any side is shocking. I am anti-killing.
Do you justify the terrorist tactics used by Hamas? do you justify them shooting rockets with the SOLE INTENTION to murder? Perhaps you may be more balanced if Israel 'let' a few terrorist through to even the death count. Is it all about the death count to you? does the side's intentions matter? What are your thoughts on Hamas brainwashing their children through kids shows instructing them to 'kill all the jews'?
This is all justifiable as long as there are no Israeli deaths right?
Should have massacred those villages the Jewish way:
Just roll in with Merkova tanks and bulldozers, knock the houses down and build 'Jewish' settlements straight on top of the ruins.
Look closely at the above map, and tell me again who is 'under attack'.
Tip: It only works if you're honest with yourself.
Your obsession with 'Jewish' is fascinating. Do you know that there are significant Arab-Israeli, christians, Druze popoulations in Israel? They also serve in the military you know. But oh it must be the Jewish ones that are bad.
Regarding your map - you left out the bit that Israel gave back the land they had to Egypt - for peace, and still occupy parts of the West Bank because they were invaded by Jordan, twice! Countries dont just return land after getting invaded. Oh actually wait a tick, Israel does.
Now I am against settlement expansion because I believe in a 2 state solution. So that applies to the West Bank. But Israel is not occupying Gaza, there are no Israeli's in Gaza. It is also blocked from the Egyption side so if you continue ranting, I assume you will knock the egyptions (who also oppose Hamas FWIW).
If Israel lowered their weapons, they would be open to attack. That is the key point in this. I am not justifying civilian casualties, Israel does go too hard sometimes, but Hamas are pure scum, and are worse for their own people than Israel is to them.
Instead of critisizing one side only, how about providing a balanced view with some possible solutions? Do you not think that Hamas stopping their rocket fire will stop the Israelis? Think about it.[/QUOTE]
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mdizzle
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Mate, look at the map. Just look at it.
Israel is a Jewish State. It ha specific laws that favor Jews. Over the past 60 years it has engaged in a system of apartheid and flat out ethnic cleansing leading to millions of refugees, tens of thousands dead, homes demolioshed and a continuing expansion of territory over the homes of people that are being killed and driven from their homes.
Im not saying that 'all Israelis want all Palestinian Arabs gone' (even though that may very well be true for a number of individual Israelis). Im saying that the State of Israel has slowly, surely and efficiently engaged in a program of ethnic cleansing of Palestine, coupling military offensives with a system of apartheid.
Look at the map of Israel over the past 60 years and tell me its not happening.
Mate, I'm not defending Hamas. At all. Dont think just because I find Israel deplorable in all this, that it means I justify Hamas or rocket attacks against Israel.
Im taking a third position and condemning both sides.
Even If I accept that position, what youre saying is that rocket attacks justify missile strikes and smart bombs.
By the same logic, what do missile strikes and smart bombs 'justify' in return?
Ethnic cleansing isnt simply 'sending people to the gas chambers' ala Germany or 'wantonly killing anyone you can find' ala Somalia. Its a State implementing polcies and procedures to eradicate a certain ethnic minority from its territory. Simply making life extremely difficult for a particualar ethnicty (thereby encouraging them to leave) is enough.
Israel have an open policy of special laws for Jews. This is (effectively) a system that creates an apartheid like dual State. They are also engaged in frequent attacks on Palestine, seizing land, demolishing homes, shelling urban areas and creating millions of Palestinian refugees. Palestine is shrinking. And not by coincidence.
Of course not. But I wouldnt support rolling in Tanks and lobbing 155mm mortar shells into urban centres killing hundreds of people, and creating millions of refugees (the overwhelming majority of whom who are in way connected to the rocket attacks, tunnel construction or kidnapping) in response.
How you see this as 'proportionate' is utterly beyond me. Also how you think that by killing hundreds of people and driving tens of thousands more from thier homes is going to 'make the problem better' is also beyond me.
You've just created a few thousand more 'terrorists' and killed and ruined the lives of tens of thousands more people in the process. Well done with your 'solution'.
Dont be surprised when families of those victims and displaced people get mad and blow themselves to smitherenes in the downtown markets in Israel in a few years time.
And so the madness continues.
Dont play the anti semite card with me mate. It wont wash. I've said nothing anti semetic all thread so dont go there mkay?
That must be why Japan and Germany still fly the US flag.
Oh wait.
Exactly. And if they lowered their weapons, and were actually sincere in a two state solution (which they are not) then you might find the attacks would stop.
On the other side, Hamas needs to acknowledge Israel, remove its charter, quit with the blatant anti semitism.
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Via Glenn Greenwald re current Gaza onslaught:
GarnerSmash
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I'm a Palestinian mother. I have 4 kids aged 2, 4, 5 and 9.
My roof gets 'tapped' and I have 30 seconds to get my 2 year old up from its nap, my 4 year old out of the bath, my 5 year old and 9 year old out of the street, to my side to help carry the other 2 kids 500 meters to safety before they blow the s**t out of my house and neighbouring houses. Sounds reasonable....
mdizzle
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YEAH BUT BUT BUT HAMAS TERRORISM ROCKETS HAMAS TUNNELS DEFEND ISRAEL HAMAS HUMAN SHIELD TERROR TUNNELS HAMAS
slicedndiced
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And, hour by hour, militant Imams get more and more ammunition to radicilise young Muslims across the ME and elsewhere.
"We" will reap what "we" sow for decades to come.
"We" will reap what "we" sow for decades to come.
Cant recall anything like this in UK newspaper, particularly a right wing one.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html
Who is we and what is being sown?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html
Who is we and what is being sown?
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If it's a war then why the moral outrage against the Palestinians trying to defend their families and homes against the expansionist, racist state of Israel?
slicedndiced
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html
There is an indictment if ever I have seen one.
From The Tele, of all papers!
We, as in both major sides of our parliament offering implicit support to Israel.
"We" are sowing further hatred and militarisation of Muslim youth globally.
sherb
Hall of Famer
So for every militant they kill, Israel are happy to take out about five innocent civilians.Via Glenn Greenwald re current Gaza onslaught:
slicedndiced
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Yep.
It's running at roughly 4:1 since 2001.
Sample size rapidly nearing 10,000 as we speak.
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come on guys give the idf some credit the ratio would be 10:1 if the friendly idf men didnt warn civilians before bombing their homes. how is israel supposed to defend its people from popgun 'rocket' attacks which kill nobody if it cant bomb civilians? and these civilians arent really innocent given that they are on the chosen peoples land. it is actually very polite of israel to have given these people seventy years to get out. if somebody was in your home would you give them seventy years to remove themselves before calling the police? the idf are really just police evicting tenants. bad teneants at that given that they build mosques everywhere, how would you like it if tenants in your house started building mosques? you lefties need to visit israel before you can understand how sacred it is.
but i wouldnt expect you to understand, it is all anti-israel on this forum. you never focus on the horrors of hummus.
but i wouldnt expect you to understand, it is all anti-israel on this forum. you never focus on the horrors of hummus.
but the palestinians should not be occupying and invading israel starting in 1948.
this is the chronology right? on israel land for the last 3 thousand years? thats how old israel is. i am a full blooded christian zionist. the jews wont be perfected until the rapture, and those who do not convert will be smited.
