List Mgmt. 2014 trade/draft/FA/delistings

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Apr 13, 2006
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In any case, if he was going anywhere, the way to get him to your club isnt to talk to GWS about what we'd trade him for.

Its to talk to him and his manager about what stonkingly large bag of cash each year for how many years you'll offer him.

GWS doesnt need picks, and we cant afford cap room for established star players (see other 2015 re-signings). Therefore, we wont voluntarily trade Cameron.

On the other hand, if he got offered a Buddy style deal that we wont match, then he's probably gawn.

I have advocated this on the Port board. GWS are going to have major, major salary cap problems, sooner, rather than later. We still will have to trade some very good players and I have also said that basically everyone on our list bar probably Boak, (and perhaps the ruckman) is fair game.
 

IanW

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I have advocated this on the Port board. GWS are going to have major, major salary cap problems, sooner, rather than later. We still will have to trade some very good players and I have also said that basically everyone on our list bar probably Boak, (and perhaps the ruckman) is fair game.

The key isnt the trade. It's the personal terms.

And, so far, every other club has declined to offer any of our kids serious money.
 

Go the Biff

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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...layers-move-away/story-fni5f91a-1226996566727

Did you guys see this article featuring Dom Tyson??

Really disappointed with some of Dom's quotes in this. Up until now he has been pretty measured and good about the trade but this is a fair dinkum PR job.

Glad he's going well and happy in a team that will be rubbish for another 5 years.

Crap headline. Based on one question in an 8 minute media conference. A question he looked like he didn't want to answer.

Tyson has been nothing but complimentary about GWS and his time there. His only frustration was that injury prevented him playing more
 

flipper83

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Jul 18, 2012
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Hey guys just wanted to float this idea on your board and see what you think.

I know that you're probably hoping to hang on to your 3 big name KPF's and you might be able to as well but hypothetically if you were not you obviously will want to get the best return possible on whoever was traded out. I think if the your list manager felt that one of them wanted to leave they might try to make it happen this year rather than waiting till next year when there is a possibility of them entering the preseason draft.
Anyway if you were to trade Patton or Boyd this year would this seem like a possible scenario.

There are rumours that you are interested in Higgins as a free agent and if he left as a free agent we would probably get a band 2 or 3 compo (end of first or second round tied to position) However if the two clubs made an agreement where GWS signed Higgins on a bigger contract (probably an additional 100 to 150k per season) and the bulldogs agreed to trade their first round compensation pick and their first round pick to GWS for Patton/Boyd you will effectively get Higgins, pick 6 and pick 7 for Boyd/Patton.

Obviously it depends on your salary cap position but a lot of your experienced players from other clubs will have contract expiring soon which should free up some dough.

I know ideally you would prefer a player or two in a trade but it seems pretty evident that clubs aren't prepared to give up their young upcoming guns so this could be a good outcome.

You probably would need to weigh it up against St Kildas pick 1 which I could see them potentially offering but with the best 2 players in the draft touted to be talls pick 6 and 7 might be more beneficial.

Anyway just thought I'd see what you thought.
 
Apr 12, 2012
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Crap headline. Based on one question in an 8 minute media conference. A question he looked like he didn't want to answer.

Tyson has been nothing but complimentary about GWS and his time there. His only frustration was that injury prevented him playing more

Yeah the usual. Just hate how the media play it, makes it look bad for Dom (who is a great kid) and makes our club look like its in crisis, which as far as I know it isn't.
 

Andre the Giant

Norm Smith Medallist
Feb 20, 2012
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I think people predicting salary cap drama for us need to look at their own backyards first. Last time I checked we had less established A grade players than anyone and missed out on Buddy Franklin.

We won't have dramas in that area for 4 or 5 years and that is regardless of whether we retain the big 3.

I have a feeling we will have some very good news in regards to player retention very shortly. Adam Treloar will kick things off and will be swiftly followed by Jezza and General.

Maybe management want to do a slam dunk media conference with the lot re-signing. Nobody wants to leave, they are building something together which is unique and want to stick together.
 
Hey guys just wanted to float this idea on your board and see what you think.
...
There are rumours that you are interested in Higgins as a free agent and if he left as a free agent we would probably get a band 2 or 3 compo (end of first or second round tied to position) However if the two clubs made an agreement where GWS signed Higgins on a bigger contract (probably an additional 100 to 150k per season) and the bulldogs agreed to trade their first round compensation pick and their first round pick to GWS for Patton/Boyd you will effectively get Higgins, pick 6 and pick 7 for Boyd/Patton.
Obviously it depends on your salary cap position but a lot of your experienced players from other clubs will have contract expiring soon which should free up some dough.
I know ideally you would prefer a player or two in a trade but it seems pretty evident that clubs aren't prepared to give up their young upcoming guns so this could be a good outcome.
You probably would need to weigh it up against St Kildas pick 1 which I could see them potentially offering but with the best 2 players in the draft touted to be talls pick 6 and 7 might be more beneficial.
Anyway just thought I'd see what you thought.

o_O

We pay more money to someone we could still get as an RFA so we have the privilege of trading away one of our promising KPFs?

I really want some of those drugs. :drunk:
 

flipper83

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Jul 18, 2012
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o_O

We pay more money to someone we could still get as an RFA so we have the privilege of trading away one of our promising KPFs?

I really want some of those drugs. :drunk:

Did you read the post properly? The idea is that you would get 2 early first round draft picks.
 
Did you read the post properly? The idea is that you would get 2 early first round draft picks.

Yes. You seem to have not bothered including any reason as to why we'd prefer two mid first round picks (probably midfielders, given it looks like there'll be a run on the KPPs early) over a promising young KPF. I think you'd find most of us in favour of the young KPF given we've already got a problem fitting our current stock of midfielders into the team.
 

flipper83

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Yes. You seem to have not bothered including any reason as to why we'd prefer two mid first round picks (probably midfielders, given it looks like there'll be a run on the KPPs early) over a promising young KPF. I think you'd find most of us in favour of the young KPF given we've already got a problem fitting our current stock of midfielders into the team.

Obviously I don't know your list well but I would suggest that you have a lot of promising key position players on your list and 2 of the bigger needs are a rebounding back flanker and small forward. Players likely to go in the pick 6-7 range will be Laverde and Pickett who would fill those roles very well.

Anyway I don't want to get into a debate about what you need. I'm just looking at trades that might be in the vicinity of what you would expect for a number draft pick key forward.

There aren't going to be many clubs with 2 early first round draft picks with all the compo picks gone, can't see you getting any of the players that you would want from another club and clubs with number 1 picks will be weighing up the key forwards in this years draft with the 2 that you have. So don't think you could be expecting a lot more that pick 6 and 7.

Interested on what others think?
 

Danny88

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Mar 21, 2014
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Obviously I don't know your list well but I would suggest that you have a lot of promising key position players on your list and 2 of the bigger needs are a rebounding back flanker and small forward. Players likely to go in the pick 6-7 range will be Laverde and Pickett who would fill those roles very well.

Anyway I don't want to get into a debate about what you need. I'm just looking at trades that might be in the vicinity of what you would expect for a number draft pick key forward.

There aren't going to be many clubs with 2 early first round draft picks with all the compo picks gone, can't see you getting any of the players that you would want from another club and clubs with number 1 picks will be weighing up the key forwards in this years draft with the 2 that you have. So don't think you could be expecting a lot more that pick 6 and 7.

Interested on what others think?
To be honest I think every GWS supporter wants all three to stay and all three to work. Hopefully the past few seasons have been enough for Cameron and Patton to stay as it is obvious to even blind freddy that the club is going places if they stay together. Boyd might be convinced to ask for a trade if a sizable contract and regular game time is thrown at him. Its a big IF.

If that was the case then the deal you have thrown out seems the right price to pay for such a player. You guys would get the kpf you need and we would be well compensated. The issues i see with this is Boyd would have to want to go and there is nothing to suggest this is the case, and we would have to find $$$ to accommodate a mature player under the cap

overall id say the ifs make it very unlikely
 

Ichabod Noodle

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Sep 13, 2011
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People also seem to forget the "I want to play with my mates" factor. It kept Geelong together when everyone said that post 2007 there'd be an exodus because they couldn't afford to keep all those all-Australian players together. Players stayed for less money to play with their mates and experience long term success. (Eventually Ablett left, but that wasn't till much later and a completely different story)

Not every player is a money grubbing mercenary and from what has been said publicly by pretty much all the players who've said anything publicly is that we are building something here and I want to stay and play with my mates. We have a bond etc etc.

Don't be too quick to yell "salary cap pressures" and expect players walking.
 
Dec 10, 2003
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People also seem to forget the "I want to play with my mates" factor. It kept Geelong together when everyone said that post 2007 there'd be an exodus because they couldn't afford to keep all those all-Australian players together. Players stayed for less money to play with their mates and experience long term success. (Eventually Ablett left, but that wasn't till much later and a completely different story)

Not every player is a money grubbing mercenary and from what has been said publicly by pretty much all the players who've said anything publicly is that we are building something here and I want to stay and play with my mates. We have a bond etc etc.

Don't be too quick to yell "salary cap pressures" and expect players walking.

That's very true. The only issue we and any club has is the players that are missing out , that look at other options elsewhere as easier or more realistic. We lost players but rarely did we lose player we saw as best 22 now or best 22 very soon. The obvious exception was Mumford, He was a Rookie and got a bigger offer from Syd and there was no way we could pay him more than some regulars were getting.
So to me what you say makes sense. You may lose one or two over the next few years that you would prefer to keep but most of the trades or losses will be collateral damage to building your team. People like you big three will be unlikely to be going anywhere despite what most supporters would like . And I believe once you start to become week in.week out competitive , winning your share , there will be players in other states taking less to play in a very good young side.
 

IanW

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Obviously I don't know your list well but I would suggest that you have a lot of promising key position players on your list and 2 of the bigger needs are a rebounding back flanker and small forward. Players likely to go in the pick 6-7 range will be Laverde and Pickett who would fill those roles very well.

Anyway I don't want to get into a debate about what you need. I'm just looking at trades that might be in the vicinity of what you would expect for a number draft pick key forward.

There aren't going to be many clubs with 2 early first round draft picks with all the compo picks gone, can't see you getting any of the players that you would want from another club and clubs with number 1 picks will be weighing up the key forwards in this years draft with the 2 that you have. So don't think you could be expecting a lot more that pick 6 and 7.

Interested on what others think?

I think that the stupid, it burns - because you are doing it in the wrong order.

Lets ignore the fact that 6+7 is a pretty damn weak offer for a #1 pick, and just concentrate on the fact you're trying to get a club to shop a player who seemingly does not want to leave.

Nope. Wrong. Ever since the cluster**** of the Crazy Vossy deal for Fev, clubs dont work that way.

What you do is what we did with Callan Ward - offer an amount of money and a length of deal the player cannot say no for. Something like $5m over 7 years, with an escalator to $7m over 7 if they finish top 3 in the Brownlow.

After the player takes the bait *then* do the deal with the club, with them getting the best they can get for a player whose already declared where he wants to play.
 
May 24, 2014
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I think that the stupid, it burns - because you are doing it in the wrong order.

Lets ignore the fact that 6+7 is a pretty damn weak offer for a #1 pick, and just concentrate on the fact you're trying to get a club to shop a player who seemingly does not want to leave.

Nope. Wrong. Ever since the cluster**** of the Crazy Vossy deal for Fev, clubs dont work that way.

What you do is what we did with Callan Ward - offer an amount of money and a length of deal the player cannot say no for. Something like $5m over 7 years, with an escalator to $7m over 7 if they finish top 3 in the Brownlow.

After the player takes the bait *then* do the deal with the club, with them getting the best they can get for a player whose already declared where he wants to play.

Ian, you sound like a broken record with this win the player over with terms they can't refuse. But, you know what? You are spot on. This how the big trades happen.

Most trade talk on this forum seems to focus on the relative strength of bargaining positions between clubs over players. The reality is clubs negotiate with players and their managers first, then follow up with the players club.

This is why discussing or predicting trades is a mug's game...we might be able to establish the relative bargaining strength between clubs, but we rarely know the bargaining position, let alone strength, of an individual player.
 

IanW

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Ian, you sound like a broken record with this win the player over with terms they can't refuse. But, you know what? You are spot on. This how the big trades happen.

Most trade talk on this forum seems to focus on the relative strength of bargaining positions between clubs over players. The reality is clubs negotiate with players and their managers first, then follow up with the players club.

This is why discussing or predicting trades is a mug's game...we might be able to establish the relative bargaining strength between clubs, but we rarely know the bargaining position, let alone strength, of an individual player.

Yep. Players have agency - they call their own shots.

What the 'trade threads' should be about is relative cap room.
 

Scully2Folau

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Sep 12, 2011
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Yep. Players have agency - they call their own shots.

What the 'trade threads' should be about is relative cap room.
Imagine the s**t dribbling if salary and cap info was available on the Internet like US sports...
 
Good point. Any reason it isn't? It would be good for clubs to be transparent in this regard

Probably the same reason companies don't like their employees conferring about how much they earn - players start to get a better idea of their value and how much players like them are paid on other teams, so it's a lot harder to sign a player for under market value.
 

TBOW

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Aug 9, 2012
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To be honest I think every GWS supporter wants all three to stay and all three to work. Hopefully the past few seasons have been enough for Cameron and Patton to stay as it is obvious to even blind freddy that the club is going places if they stay together. Boyd might be convinced to ask for a trade if a sizable contract and regular game time is thrown at him. Its a big IF.

If that was the case then the deal you have thrown out seems the right price to pay for such a player. You guys would get the kpf you need and we would be well compensated. The issues i see with this is Boyd would have to want to go and there is nothing to suggest this is the case, and we would have to find $$$ to accommodate a mature player under the cap

overall id say the ifs make it very unlikely
THANK YOU for being the one poster on this board who actually addresses the merits of a HYPOTHETICAL trade scenario rather than abusing people & yelling hands off our players.

And Ian obviously any trade is being proposed on the grounds that personal terms have been met with said player. People are just spitballing here.
 
THANK YOU for being the one poster on this board who actually addresses the merits of a HYPOTHETICAL trade scenario rather than abusing people & yelling hands off our players.

If you had different posters coming on to the Dogs board a couple of times a week and throwing up trades for your best players repeatedly over three years you'd get pretty sick of it too.
 

TBOW

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If you had different posters coming on to the Dogs board a couple of times a week and throwing up trades for your best players repeatedly over three years you'd get pretty sick of it too.
Honestly I wouldn't be.
The trading & list management discussion is the only reason I am on big footy & it is a two way street.
I understand that it is worse for you guys due to the quantity of young talent on your list that you percieve as untouchable & others see as attainable.
The reality is that you have been the biggest trade players since you entered the comp & to be honest I think you will be the biggest player again this year.
No one needs to go on the trades board if they don't like talking about potential trades.
 
The reality is that you have been the biggest trade players since you entered the comp & to be honest I think you will be the biggest player again this year.
No one needs to go on the trades board if they don't like talking about potential trades.

A) this isn't the trades board, this is the GWS board.
B) being the big player has largely involved off-loading players outside our best 15. The ones we get defensive about are the repeated ones for Shiel, Patton, Treloar, Coniglio, etc. We don't have a track record of getting rid of those guys.
 
Apr 12, 2012
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If you had different posters coming on to the Dogs board a couple of times a week and throwing up trades for your best players repeatedly over three years you'd get pretty sick of it too.
Lets not forget offering spuds and 2nd rounders for our stars then being upity and tell us to be realists when we say they are worth more.
 

TBOW

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A) this isn't the trades board, this is the GWS board.
B) being the big player has largely involved off-loading players outside our best 15. The ones we get defensive about are the repeated ones for Shiel, Patton, Treloar, Coniglio, etc. We don't have a track record of getting rid of those guys.
Sorry, should have said trade thread.
Out of interest were people getting defensive about Tyson & Adams last year? They weren't exactly fringe players.
Your list management is going to be far more complex than clinging on to everyone on your list & waiting for the good times to roll. It's a delicate balance.
 
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