List Mgmt. AFL Article linking Cats and Frawley

[Partridge]

Partridge, the answer lies in SkittleCats' response. He expressed the opinion that the existing young players are "3+ years away from being able to do what we hope they can do". Lonergan has at best one more season, as does Rivers. Taylor can't do it all himself. And Enright is likely to retire at the end of 2014.

He also said we have an obvious need, and he fills it NOW.

Go for it. There is a real danger our "best-22" is under 30 players, there's always room for one more. Can't wait to see a defence with Rivers, Frawley, Taylor, Lonergan and Mackie, as well as a ruck division of McIntosh, Simpson and Blicavs, and a forward line of Hawkins, Vardy and Kersten.

The speed will be just awesome.

 

[dazbroncos]

All of this Frawley speculation is based off a Mark Robinson "rumor" don't forget. I doubt anyone who would actually know would leak something like that given its (i think) against the rules to commit to another club outside Free Agency/Trade periods.

My two cents; We are ****** without Frawley. Hamling wont be what we think he will be, Blicavs could be anything but at this point who knows, Kolo is probably the best prospect in defense at the moment. Bottom line for all those guys is that they are 3+ years away from being able to do what we hope they can do. That's how long it takes for KPP to develop, these guys are years away from us being able to assess there worth. Frawley is worth it now, and he fills an obvious need. If we don't get him in a year or two the bottom will fall out when Lonergan/Rivers/Mackie/Enright/Kelly are all gone. With Frawley we can avoid this too some extent and help reduce the pressure on the rookies to develop faster than they can. Throw the kitchen sink at him.

Not really. The back 6 is made up of 6 players so for mine we are not ****ed just because we don't have 1 player.
Would he be a nice addition - sure and he would make us better. But not 700k for 7 years better. That Dangerfield type offers and even then id be cautious.

As for Hammer, the bloke is in his 3rd year. From what I saw in the VFL this year, he is 194, not a huge guy for his size but has definitely gotten bigger this year. He is quicker than Mackie, is great below his knees, and has great hands and foot skills. And he goes in harder than a few other guys of his size.
Im not saying for a second that hammer can be Frawley's replacement but we are hardly ****ed.

Also, and this is more of a longer shot, James Toohey and Nick Bourke are both rookies that are of size and weight. AS you say, more time is needed with them but they both have what it takes and will impress going forward. They have both impressed me already.

Do we think Chip would be the Domsy replacement and can he go with the Tommahawks, Tippets, and Clokes of the world? I personally think Domsy is underrated in his ability to take out the monster FF's of the game.

Go Catters

 

[Pure_Ownage]

He's the one I quite like and I think might be around.

Great intercept mark, reads the play well.

I also think, if Frawley does head to Collingwood, we should enquire about Frost.

I would enquire about Frost anyway as he is a good young key defender and uncontracted. But I assume the Giants will go for him, they said earlier in the year they would target another key defender, and that's even more of a need now Mohr has done his knee last week.

 

[Partridge]

As for Hammer, the bloke is in his 3rd year. From what I saw in the VFL this year, he is 194, not a huge guy for his size but has definitely gotten bigger this year. He is quicker than Mackie, is great below his knees, and has great hands and foot skills. And he goes in harder than a few other guys of his size.
Im not saying for a second that hammer can be Frawley's replacement but we are hardly ******.

Also, and this is more of a longer shot, James Toohey and Nick Bourke are both rookies that are of size and weight. AS you say, more time is needed with them but they both have what it takes and will impress going forward. They have both impressed me already.

And there is the problem. To do that requires patience. And we don't have any. Even though more than any other team, we've seen the benefit of when a club does have it. But no, we want every gap or perceived gap filled, and it has to be filled NOW. Now! Now! Now! No more rebuilds, no more gradual development, we fill every gap with a free agency superstar every season. Simple.

 

[dazbroncos]

And there is the problem. To do that requires patience. And we don't have any. Even though more than any other team, we've seen the benefit of when a club does have it. But no, we want every gap or perceived gap filled, and it has to be filled NOW. Now! Now! Now! No more rebuilds, no more gradual development, we fill every gap with a free agency superstar every season. Simple.

Then it stands to reason that the NOW people will be disappointed, throw their arms up in disgust and walk away from supporting the club. There will be some good and some bad performances. Some of them will make it and some won't. And when it gets settled and the 0 gamers get up to the 50 -75 game mark, those NOW supporters will come back to club as the success level rises again and rejoice they their " young guns" have been great all along and Wells is a genius.

Its just a shame they can't see supporting them and the club to get to that point. But oh well, just more space for us at the games until they come back.

GO Catters

 

[Sttew]

And there is the problem. To do that requires patience. And we don't have any. Even though more than any other team, we've seen the benefit of when a club does have it. But no, we want every gap or perceived gap filled, and it has to be filled NOW. Now! Now! Now! No more rebuilds, no more gradual development, we fill every gap with a free agency superstar every season. Simple.

There is a thing called a balanced approach adopted by a club that recognizes a window of finals opportunity, nothwithstanding retirements, where it blends youth with strategically targeted experience. It is distinct to the St Kilda and to a lesser extent, Western Bulldogs approach, where a club spends many years in the doldrums waiting for its youngsters to develop.

Are you advocating the latter?

 

[Partridge]

There is a thing called a balanced approach adopted by a club that recognizes a window of finals opportunity, nothwithstanding retirements, where it blends youth with strategically targeted experience. It is distinct to the St Kilda and to a lesser extent, Western Bulldogs approach, where a club spends many years in the doldrums waiting for its youngsters to develop.

Are you advocating the latter?

I'm not advocating anything. I didn't realise there were only two options. I'm not entirely convinced of the "blending youth" argument this season - certainly not when it comes to key defenders.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Not really. The back 6 is made up of 6 players so for mine we are not ****** just because we don't have 1 player.
Would he be a nice addition - sure and he would make us better. But not 700k for 7 years better. That Dangerfield type offers and even then id be cautious.

As for Hammer, the bloke is in his 3rd year. From what I saw in the VFL this year, he is 194, not a huge guy for his size but has definitely gotten bigger this year. He is quicker than Mackie, is great below his knees, and has great hands and foot skills. And he goes in harder than a few other guys of his size.
Im not saying for a second that hammer can be Frawley's replacement but we are hardly ******.

Also, and this is more of a longer shot, James Toohey and Nick Bourke are both rookies that are of size and weight. AS you say, more time is needed with them but they both have what it takes and will impress going forward. They have both impressed me already.

Do we think Chip would be the Domsy replacement and can he go with the Tommahawks, Tippets, and Clokes of the world? I personally think Domsy is underrated in his ability to take out the monster FF's of the game.

Go Catters

I'm pretty sure the $700-800k and 7 year story has been refuted by Frawley and others over the past week. Both Frawley and the Cats know that he won't come to the Cats if he doesn't agree to fit into whatever "band" they believe he slots into. If he goes elsewhere, so be it. BF posters have had their eye on numerous players over the last couple of years but those players (Shaw, White, to name a couple) have ended up elsewhere. We have managed to be 2nd on the ladder without them.

I agree with you about Lonergan vs the Neanderthal forwards. Hopefully he can continue to fill that role for another year or so. The question is, when the opposition doesn't have an huge lumbering forward, can we still afford to have Lonergan at FB on a faster forward?

 

[catswhiskers]

What has been happening since 2011 is what I think will happen from here. That is

1. Moving on older champions if terms can't be reached (games to play so kids get some too) a la Chappy. (ave. 2 per year)
2. Giving and sometimes gifting games to best young kids to help move them forward (so they develop alongside experienced players)
3. Making most young players do a 2 min or 3 year apprenticeship in the VFL
4. Signing a targeted player to fill a need. Free Agent or trade.
5. And this year - delist a number from the main list ( or trade [an unlikely possibility]) of those who can't quite cut it for one reason or another. Could be three or five.

Allowing the list to age and then see the kids fall off the cliff as Lyon did at St.Kilda or Eade? did at Doggies is not going to happen at Geelong. Getting high draft picks is not going to happen. We will have to develop the kids and hope that there are gems out there.

Hamling is one of those project players. I have seen him live twice this year and in last year's GF and been impressed. He is athletic, very quick (closes down very well), got a great leap, and has good hands and kick. Seems to read the play well. I am not suggesting he is Matthew Scarlett reincarnated but I think he will be a valuable player ....soon. Hartman is another but being a mid he is developing faster. In fact he has come from the clouds.
Other talented kids are waiting or have been injured.

Is Frawley a good get? Yes, but not on his terms, on GFCs terms. One carefully selected player with 25-50 games might just do the trick as well. Tomlinson has caught my eye a couple of times on the box (not seen live which is always telling) and if the MC know of another they might be able to get with a pick 18 then they might pull that trigger. I would prefer this myself to a free agent. We seem to have a 50/50 strike rate with end of first rounders anyway.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

disappointed myself if we don't get him as we won't be as strong next year unless Lonergan and Rivers can turn back the clock for just another season (or two) but I have tremendous faith in our club's recruiting and Kolodashnij, Thurlow, Bews and Toohey can hopefully gel together in that half of the ground in the coming years.

By the time they're all playing seniors they should be pretty used to playing together after all the VFL experience they're getting as a unit.

Bugger Frawley, give Kolo the opportunity for mine, I don't remember too many KPD's being as consistently impressive and physically ready as him at 18 years old. He'll end up as big if not bigger than Frawley within a couple of years anyway. Excellent reader of the play, if he can improve his offensive side, as he's indicated he wants to, he could be a very good KPD.

 

[Rainfall]

What has been happening since 2011 is what I think will happen from here. That is

1. Moving on older champions if terms can't be reached (games to play so kids get some too) a la Chappy. (ave. 2 per year)
2. Giving and sometimes gifting games to best young kids to help move them forward (so they develop alongside experienced players)
3. Making most young players do a 2 min or 3 year apprenticeship in the VFL
4. Signing a targeted player to fill a need. Free Agent or trade.
5. And this year - delist a number from the main list ( or trade [an unlikely possibility]) of those who can't quite cut it for one reason or another. Could be three or five.

Allowing the list to age and then see the kids fall off the cliff as Lyon did at St.Kilda or Eade? did at Doggies is not going to happen at Geelong. Getting high draft picks is not going to happen. We will have to develop the kids and hope that there are gems out there.

Hamling is one of those project players. I have seen him live twice this year and in last year's GF and been impressed. He is athletic, very quick (closes down very well), got a great leap, and has good hands and kick. Seems to read the play well. I am not suggesting he is Matthew Scarlett reincarnated but I think he will be a valuable player ....soon. Hartman is another but being a mid he is developing faster. In fact he has come from the clouds.
Other talented kids are waiting or have been injured.

Is Frawley a good get? Yes, but not on his terms, on GFCs terms. One carefully selected player with 25-50 games might just do the trick as well. Tomlinson has caught my eye a couple of times on the box (not seen live which is always telling) and if the MC know of another they might be able to get with a pick 18 then they might pull that trigger. I would prefer this myself to a free agent. We seem to have a 50/50 strike rate with end of first rounders anyway.

At your fifth dot point I really hope it's 5.

 

[Seeds]

And there is the problem. To do that requires patience. And we don't have any. Even though more than any other team, we've seen the benefit of when a club does have it. But no, we want every gap or perceived gap filled, and it has to be filled NOW. Now! Now! Now! No more rebuilds, no more gradual development, we fill every gap with a free agency superstar every season. Simple.

This is the approach that Sydney and the Hawks have taken and look who has won the past two premierships. The introduction of free agency may well have changed the way premiership teams will be built now. I'm not sure if this is true or not but it may well be (especially if the free agency age is lowered further as the Players association wants). As soon as Geelong starts a proper rebuild and falls down the ladder we will never attract a free agent again and we will regularly be at the risk of losing our gun players at 26 who want to go play for one of the big clubs. A rebuild may no longer be an option for the club.

 

[Go Hoops]

If he wants more than 3 years, maybe with an option of 1 or 2, and more than $600K Collingwood are welcome to him.

 

[Sttew]

This is the approach that Sydney and the Hawks have taken and look who has won the past two premierships. The introduction of free agency may well have changed the way premiership teams will be built now. I'm not sure if this is true or not but it may well be (especially if the free agency age is lowered further as the Players association wants). As soon as Geelong starts a proper rebuild and falls down the ladder we will never attract a free agent again and we will regularly be at the risk of losing our gun players at 26 who want to go play for one of the big clubs. A rebuild may no longer be an option for the club.

I can't believe how many on this board believe we can do it all on our own, i.e., develop the youngsters and forget about free agents, while other successful clubs make the most of the new paradigm.

 

[Partridge]

I can't believe how many on this board believe we can do it all on our own, i.e., develop the youngsters and forget about free agents, while other successful clubs make the most of the new paradigm.

It's more about taking a step back and looking at the entire playing list as it stands.

If you want to get Frawley, for next year, no problem. That means one of Lonergan or Taylor or Rivers has to either play VFL or move on. They can't all play at once. If you commit to spending big money on free agents, they won't be playing VFL, regardless of form. We just need to remember that. If that's not an issue then no problem.

 

[Bobby_]

By the time they're all playing seniors they should be pretty used to playing together after all the VFL experience they're getting as a unit.

Bugger Frawley, give Kolo the opportunity for mine, I don't remember too many KPD's being as consistently impressive and physically ready as him at 18 years old. He'll end up as big if not bigger than Frawley within a couple of years anyway. Excellent reader of the play, if he can improve his offensive side, as he's indicated he wants to, he could be a very good KPD.

Well said, I got excited just reading that post
Wouldn't mind seeing the kid get a game in the coming week/s. He could be another of those Matty Egan types.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Well said, I got excited just reading that post
Wouldn't mind seeing the kid get a game in the coming week/s. He could be another of those Matty Egan types.

Hope so! I'm definitely not across rival clubs young guys very well but I can't think of another 18yo KPD at another club that has been as impressive this year. Usually they're skinny-ish guys that need time to develop physically and hone their skills. On the contrary, Kolo has stepped straight in and nullified pretty well seasoned, mature bodied key forwards week in and week out and regularly in the best, all in his first season. From I've seen in the few VFL matches i've gone to is his ability to read the flight and spoil. He just seems to know when to make body contact and when to stay a step off to get a clear leap to spoil. I almost think he's underrated for what he's doing this early on.

He'll be jumping out of skin for his opportunity too with his twin bro already playing, he'll be HUNGRY to perform.

 

[SkittleCats]

What need? Who do you drop out of Taylor, Lonergan and Rivers? You did say now. All three will be there next year too more than likely. Who goes out for him?

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Lonergan hangs up the boots at the end of this season. Or the club may pull the trigger on him early a la Chappy and let him go if Frawley agrees to terms.

 

[catswhiskers]

I can't believe how many on this board believe we can do it all on our own, i.e., develop the youngsters and forget about free agents, while other successful clubs make the most of the new paradigm.

I don't think many have said forget FAgency. Its timing and need and availablity. Frawley is not the perfect fit a 600K+ long term contract would require IMO. Finding that 23/24 yo KPD and making a swap of draft pick for him (first round even) appeals more to me right now. That gives our KPDs one more year and gives Kola and Hamling and new bloke a chance to work up to it - winners take all when Rivers and Lonners retire.

 

[SuperCats9]

If we get frawley I think lonergan will retire

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I don't think we'll get Frawley, not because he wouldn't come to us, but because I can't see Geelong giving him a 7 year deal and mega bucks. Geelong don't do that.

 

[rocker_oz33]

I reckon other clubs will offer him more $$$$$$$ than us.Also does not look the type of player that will play right into hes 30's 7 year deal please.

 

[Catastic82]

No club will offer 7 years, unless Syd comes into play which honestly I don't put it past them.

 

[manboob]

I reckon other clubs will offer him more $$$$$$$ than us.Also does not look the type of player that will play right into hes 30's 7 year deal please.

I would be surprised if Freo didn't land him. Luke is done soon. They'll probably have cap space.

 

[SuperCats9]

Freo will give a read hot crack.

Bloody 7-year deal, Sydney started this crap.