The Hird/Charter Relationship

[womack]

BUT BUT THERES ONLY ONE CLUB BEING INVESTIGATED, STOP DEFLECTING

The other clubs may have kept records of this however (or had someone capable like Deano Wallis in charge of the spread sheet)..

 

[jenny61_99]

The argument I have with that Jenny is a few.

What exactly was said at the seminar/funding drive by Calzada. What it a drive to fund purely AOD, or more likely since Calzada are a company listed on the ASX an investor conference for the company. If it was looking for investors in the company what other focuses did they have, how much of a role was AOD9604 in that.

A solid investor wouldn't take much of a risk in a company who only has 1 drawcard, you need something to back it up, a plan b. What was the detail they gave at the seminar? They'd be unlikely to light up all over town that it was an experimental drug.

I know that can sound dodgy and fair enough, there are questions to be answered, but what would an investor be focused on, they'd look at financials cough Laphroaig business plan, outlook etc etc than the pure details of a drug, they are business investors not pharmaceutical experts.

As someone who has been to some simular things, they can be a hell of a borefest.

The details matter, sure, but if he didn't invest in the company he may have done very little research into those things if it didn't grab him right off the bat.

Knowing the details he knew - ones not skewed by the media (Were Calzada looking for some publicity when Hird's presence at the seminar was revealed, focusing it on AOD9604 grabs more headlines, catching investors eye)

I'd think Calzada would more likely present a business model/plan as opposed to a pharmaceutical model (perhaps aimed at getting researcher etc)

None of that is fact, I know, just talking from my experience. They are communicating to businessmen, and without being there, we don't know the focus they had.


The other drugs again, you seem to be taking the standpoint he was aware there was something wrong. If you believed everything you were doing was correct - and right not nothing has been proven to the contrary yet, that his standpoint is still valid.

Plenty of coaches have said they are all over every detail of players preperation, who is carrying an injury etc, how bad, how many weeks will the miss.

Various people are theere to feed that information to the coach, doctors, trainers, other coaches etc etc etc. He did know of drugs being used, but it should have been people high up the chain in control of the systems in place there IMO.
Ross Lyon last season said clubs have long been using a cocktail of off label drugs for years before Hird and Essendon.

I don't care that he was at an investment meeting, though it seems quite the coincidence. However by attending that meeting he would have known that AOD was an experimental drug. For me this is THE most unforgivable thing they did at essendon. Ok PEDS are bad enough, but experimental drugs? Jesus. You guys should be absolutely ropable at Hird, dank, Reid - all of them. They allowed EXPERIMENTAL DRUGS to be injected into your players. It just makes me so ******* angry. But Hird? He ******* knew it was experimental!

 

[nineteen eighty]

A poor decision by him to use those words, one of many mistakes EFC made in 2013 before they understood the AFL's real intentions and how they were being ****** over by the PR onslaught against them.

Nice to know he is being judged on one sentence, not what he actually did :nuts:

Well I must say, it does seem as if EFC are victims in all of this. Which may in fact have been the case if your coach at the time wasn't all over the PED program and given Dank the all clear to inject the players with off-label, not approved for human use drugs.

 

[DonsRule]

I don't care that he was at an investment meeting, though it seems quite the coincidence. However by attending that meeting he would have known that AOD was an experimental drug. For me this is THE most unforgivable thing they did at essendon. Ok PEDS are bad enough, but experimental drugs? Jesus. You guys should be absolutely ropable at Hird, dank, Reid - all of them. They allowed EXPERIMENTAL DRUGS to be injected into your players. It just makes me so ******* angry. But Hird? He ******* knew it was experimental!

How do you know he knew it was experimental if he did fine I agree.

You're assuming a lot there IMO, you don't know what their pitch was what they disclosed. I've been to some investors meetings and details like that aren't always discussed, they only talk about the highlights, and talk in a language aimed towards those they are talking.

 

[jenny61_99]

How do you know he knew it was experimental if he did fine I agree.

You're assuming a lot there IMO, you don't know what their pitch was what they disclosed. I've been to some investors meetings and details like that aren't always discussed, they only talk about the highlights, and talk in a language aimed towards those they are talking.

The company only had two drugs. TWO. AOD was the one they were sinking most of their efforts into. You only had to look at their website in February last year to see AOD was still in clinical trials and you don't think it would have been mentioned in the presentation?. Hird can't be that stupid surely?

 

[DonsRule]

The company only had two drugs. TWO. AOD was the one they were sinking most of their efforts into. You only had to look at their website in February last year to see AOD was still in clinical trials. Hird can't be that stupid surely?

If he invested than I agree, however if he had no interest in it at all from the meeting why look, why waste the time and effort.

He may well have known, in which case he can leave. Like I said, I've been so some investment meetings and they don't always make things like that obvious, at least not without you digging yourself; generally thats where you look into it if you are going to invest, my point his he may have had no interest in it so not bothered to look. To look, you tend to be saying he was interested.

 

[jenny61_99]

If he invested than I agree, however if he had no interest in it at all from the meeting why look, why waste the time and effort.

He may well have known, in which case he can leave. Like I said, I've been so some investment meetings and they don't always make things like that obvious, at least not without you digging yourself; generally thats where you look into it if you are going to invest, my point his he may have had no interest in it so not bothered to look. To look, you tend to be saying he was interested.

No, I'm saying there's no way they wouldn't have mentioned this potential wonder drug in clinical trials showing all sorts of positive signs. Is it purely coincedental that this drug just happens to be on the menu at Dank's cafe?

 

[DonsRule]

No, I'm saying there's no way they wouldn't have mentioned this potential wonder drug in clinical trials showing all sorts of positive signs. Is it purely coincedental that this drug just happens to be on the menu at Dank's cafe?

IMO you're assuming plenty there though, you're guessing what was said at the meeting, was Hird even the target, or was it Evans and Hird just there as his mate, Evans commands a lot more money than Hird, he is a big player in that scene, his owns and runs an investment firm.

You or I don't know he detail of what was disclosed.

Do I think Hird needs an explination for it, yes I go, and I would like to hear it, but all are assuming a lot of details.

 

[I Rock]

IMO you're assuming plenty there though, you're guessing what was said at the meeting, was Hird even the target, or was it Evans and Hird just there as his mate, Evans commands a lot more money than Hird, he is a big player in that scene, his owns and runs an investment firm.

You or I don't know he detail of what was disclosed.

Do I think Hird needs an explination for it, yes I go, and I would like to hear it, but all are assuming a lot of details.

How would you explain the "financials are ready for you and Dave on the AOD project" text allegedly sent to Hird.

 

[DonsRule]

How would you explain the "financials are ready for you and Dave on the AOD project" text allegedly sent to Hird.

That one if true needs alot more explanation, it has a lot more danger attached to it. There is the one I would like to heard from Hird on more than the meeting.

 

[I Rock]

That one if true needs alot more explanation, it has a lot more danger attached to it. There is the one I would like to heard from Hird on more than the meeting.

You would hope that the AOD project doesn't refer to an unregistered clinical trial involving a team of Australian rules football players.

 

[DonsRule]

You would hope that the AOD project doesn't refer to an unregistered clinical trial involving a team of Australian rules football players.

For sure. He may have a good explanation for it.

I may say though,. I think him explaining it to players and their families is more important than it is to me or the public though. Not that I wouldn't like one, I think the priority should have been there.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

IMO you're assuming plenty there though, you're guessing what was said at the meeting, was Hird even the target, or was it Evans and Hird just there as his mate, Evans commands a lot more money than Hird, he is a big player in that scene, his owns and runs an investment firm.

You or I don't know he detail of what was disclosed.

Do I think Hird needs an explination for it, yes I go, and I would like to hear it, but all are assuming a lot of details.

And what about Doc Reid's letter? Reid clearly questions the safety and the status of AOD. Does Hird say, "Oh crap, I never knew, thanks for telling me, Doc." No, instead the Doc was causing problems and needed to be chilled out.

 

[I Rock]

And what about Doc Reid's letter? Reid clearly questions the safety and the status of AOD. Does Hird say, "Oh crap, I never knew, thanks for telling me, Doc." No, instead the Doc was causing problems and needed to be chilled out.

Well if Drunken Fat Guts is to be believed Hird helped pen that letter. That would suggest if true Hird knew a fair bit about it.

 

[DonsRule]

And what about Doc Reid's letter? Reid clearly questions the safety and the status of AOD. Does Hird say, "Oh crap, I never knew, thanks for telling me, Doc." No, instead the Doc was causing problems and needed to be chilled out.

You'd have to ask Reid that and know more of what went on, what was said, a few *potentially* out of context lines can be distorted easily.

Like a reporter interviewing someone, they can chose what is published. And se;selectively use that to suit. An interview can be taken out of context easily.

 

[the conch]

Oh no. He's being absolutely judged on what he did. Allowing experimental drugs to be injected into his players. Let's not forget, he KNEW AOD9604 was an experimental drug. Regardless of whether ASADA are going after it or not, it was a drug not approved for human therapeutic use - anywhere in the world. Not to mention the other cocktails of substances he knew Dank was giving the players (refer texts between Dank/Hird). And then he sat there all shocked and said he'd take full responsibility and from that moment, has done anything but.

Yea.. the arrogance of this is pretty shocking. You'd have to be pretty f....d up in the head to be so callous of what you have been responsible for ... what you have done / allowed to happen ....

 

[the conch]

Thanks, you gave me a good Friday arvo chuckle.

Spare us more nausea inducement, please.

 

[the conch]

No, I'm saying there's no way they wouldn't have mentioned this potential wonder drug in clinical trials showing all sorts of positive signs. Is it purely coincedental that this drug just happens to be on the menu at Dank's cafe?

It's just one more thing that is damning circumstantial evidence that shows Hirds's hands were all over this with intention to cheat. Super competitive, super narcissist.. he was prepared to and did put the players up for the risks of using untested and potentially harmful drugs... just like he'd already done with himself using Charter in the past.

Really he should be going to jail... and EFC should be pleading on their knees for survival and putting everything on Hird and his accomplices.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The AFL were trying to save themselves by pushing Essendon as a rogue club, with Hird as the evil mastermind. They needed a big scalp as sacking Dank and Robinson, or even Robson, would not deal with the public fallout. So they decided Hird was the scapegoat.

Rubbish.

They didn't have to try and make Hird out to be anything that he wasn't already. An incompetent coach who wanted a quick fix.

He targeted Dank, he gave him guidelines to not fall foul of the WADA code, while patting him on the back with every rule that he bent. I won't even mention the convicted crim who he allowed into the supply chain.


Hird is no scapegoat. He's as much if not more to blame for what happened as several other senior figureheads who lost their employment at Essendon.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Further, no-one (at least the members) actually questioned Hird when they had the opportunity. It's one thing to throw empty words like "we would like for him to speak the truth". And it's something else to front him and demand the truth. And to ask the right questions to get to the truth. It may have been done behind closed doors but it certainly wasn't done at the last AGM where members strapped on the knee pads and all got done to service the prick.

And yes I don't like him.

Off-label, not approved for human use drugs injected MANY MANY times under his watch with his approval and members / supporters still treat him like deity. With no-one willing to demand answers from him. Mind boggling.

 

[jenny61_99]

IMO you're assuming plenty there though, you're guessing what was said at the meeting, was Hird even the target, or was it Evans and Hird just there as his mate, Evans commands a lot more money than Hird, he is a big player in that scene, his owns and runs an investment firm.

You or I don't know he detail of what was disclosed.

Do I think Hird needs an explination for it, yes I go, and I would like to hear it, but all are assuming a lot of details.

I'm assuming that a company that is giving a presentation to potential investors will be talking about their future prospects. At the time the company had two prospects one of which was AOD. It isn't that far of a stretch surely?

 

[kiwicrow]

That one if true needs alot more explanation, it has a lot more danger attached to it. There is the one I would like to heard from Hird on more than the meeting.

If true???

 

[DonsRule]

I'm assuming that a company that is giving a presentation to potential investors will be talking about their future prospects. At the time the company had two prospects one of which was AOD. It isn't that far of a stretch surely?

What do they disclose of it though, yes they would talk about it, but they would more talk finance. goals, return on investment, uses etc.

They's talk where the company as a whole is heading, in some respect a little like a charge sheet at the presentations they talk only the good stuff, I'd question if or how much of note they would make on it's lack of TGA approval 'Wait, so we're investing in a company with a product that may never make it to market' in some respect - though yes some investors do go there as a speculative buy. Big risk but potentially big return, most of the time you'll have the core of your investments as solid predictable growth. You'll buy some spec to hope that they do well, but if they fail, your other investments cover it,.

My experience is those kinda details are often not strongly disclosed, not to say it may not be shown but it is in the fine print so to speak, you'll find it if you were interested in buying easily, if you weren't maybe not.

I'm suggesting to say Hird knew it was not TGA approved isn't that simple, Not to say he didn't know though if he did than I think he should walk. BUt McKenzie said Hird didn't appear to invest in the company.

 

[Daveismad]

What staggers me is the penalty handed to Hird

They suspended Dean Bailey for almost a year when every team tanks .....let's be fair dinkum

Yet Hird was out of control,and he gets similar penalty and he still gets paid......

I'm sorry that's just so wrong it's not funny

 

[Tiger2709]

Your second sentence contradicts your first. Hird was trialled by media from the beginning as he was the anointed scapegoat.

By definition to be a scapegoat you need to be being blamed for the mistakes of others, not sure Hird fits the bill?