No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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You don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

If players are suspended, it is because of Dank and Robinson, and because they were not supervised closely enough.

The idea that you just sack anyone and everyone who had some association with their activities or who was there at the time is just dumb.

If you have a good coach, good assistants, a good football manager etc, you are just shooting yourself in the foot if you sack them all for the sake of making a clean sweep.


And furthermore, I would find it very hard to support a club that sacked Hird after the loyalty he has shown throughout this.
I think this view overlooks, or at least downplays, the gravity of the situation if players get suspended.

We'll be rubbish on field with a severely depleted side. We'll likely take a considerable hit, though not a terminal one, in an off field sense.

In that scenario, my view is that the club really would have to wipe the slate clean. Be rid of anyone in the football department with any sort of connection to the debacle.

I simply cannot countenance or conceive of any scenario where we have large swathe of our list- whether that be 26, 34 or whatever else, suspended, yet those senior members of the football department who helped oversee the whole program (or more to the point, didn't oversee it enough) survive.

Losing players to infractions is the worst possible outcome for us and indeed, would be by the width plus breadth of the Pacific the biggest catastrophe in the history of the Essendon Football Club.

It would make the sanctions of last year pale into a very insignificant blob by comparison.

If that's not enough to see basically all responsible people given their marching orders, then accountability may as well cease to exist as a concept.
 

rines

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I believe Thompson, Hird, Goodwin and Reid did nothing wrong. I believe they acted with the best intentions and integrity at all times. I believe they intended, desired and wanted a completely 'legal' program. I believe they all think it was a completely legal program.

So I agree that IF the program is somehow proven 'illegal' by virtue of a player being found guilty and suspended over a doping violation, then ultimately that is the fault of Dank/Robinson and unknown 'side' players. I agree that this would not be the above mentioned coaches fault.

However, I don't think that you could a) force those men not to quit and b) keep those individuals at the club whilst an entire playing list loses their careers.

Is that fair to the coaches or the players? No. However I don't think our club could heal those wounds without wholesale changes and a complete clean out.

I agree it might not have to be the 'entire' department.. but it would need to be a fair chunk of it.

The bonus is that I don't believe there is any chance any of this will happen as ASADA don't have a case.
 
That's the thing for me, rines. How can the club have any shred of credibility if players are sitting on the sidelines while those who ultimately cooked up the idea of the program- as a collective- hang around?

To me, they can't.
 
If you are the head coach of a side who ultimately has players suspended for doping during the period that you were head coach. You are no longer the head coach. Simple.
Not entirely, if the player went on their own accord the coach should be immune but when it was a club run program, an idea of Hird, than they have to pay a penalty.
 
And didn't Hird take the responsibility for this situation on that fateful day 18 months ago

The buck has to stop somewhere.

Yes we EFC have been punished but that was for poor governance
 

cymarak

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If that's not enough to see basically all responsible people given their marching orders, then accountability may as well cease to exist as a concept.
I'm fully in favour of all of the responsible people being held accountable.

I'm fully against punishing people who weren't responsible, but happen to have had the bad luck to have been working in the football department at the wrong time.
 

cymarak

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How can the club have any shred of credibility if players are sitting on the sidelines while those who ultimately cooked up the idea of the program- as a collective- hang around?
Coming up with an idea =/= being responsible for every detail of the implementation of that idea.
 
I'm fully in favour of all of the responsible people being held accountable.

I'm fully against punishing people who weren't responsible, but happen to have had the bad luck to have been working in the football department at the wrong time.
I can agree with that, yes.

I can't agree that a head coach, a senior assistant, the club doctor or assorted others would fit that second category, though.
 

westking

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Hang on a minute. Do we have our tin foil hats on or off right now?
 
UB1eV.gif

The Spartacus rap-sheet.
 

Ninja dog

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"credibility" = sack the footy department (incl head coach) if INs issued
"the buck has to stop somewhere"
'healing' requires new persons in the footy department;
otherwise there will a perception of lack of accountability
the captain has to go down with the ship
the minister has to resign
here is a media article about Hird => Hird is making this all about himself

these kinds of statements are all intellectually lazy, & the sort of rubbish that most of the media base their misinformed opinions on

credible governance & accountability means holding managers to account for what they can be reasonably expected to control. we're not going to sanction the needle manufacturer and we shouldn't sanction any manager who acted responsibly & that might include any of the remaining footy department staff + Reid

if we are going to recover from this saga we need to employ the best people at doing their jobs - not the best people in the eyes of a blinkered media who want Hird's scalp to make them feel relevant. we started a new era with a clean out post Sheedy & the immediate result was non-competitiveness. if we have a good coach, the best available, we should try to keep him

we also need to demonstrate some ethical integrity - loyalty, substance over appearance, truth and never ever letting certain people outside our club influence what we do, are amongst some of the integrity factors we should follow.
 
Discuss it if you wish. But for crying out loud, and this applies to both sides in the debate- quit the personal attacks and quit the aggressive and condescending tone. It is utterly unnecessary.
If nothing else, the past 17 months has shown that with our backs to the wall, this board's got an amazing sense of camaraderie.

Don't start turning on each other now.

To quote The Hunger Games (yeah yeah, I know), "Remember who the real enemy is".
 
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If nothing else, the past 17 months has shown that with our backs to the wall, this board's got an amazing sense of comradery.

Don't start turning on each other now.

To quote The Hunger Games (yeah yeah, I know), "Remember who the real enemy is".
The Hunger Games goes alright, no need to be ashamed :)
 

westking

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Robbo on sen standing up to the usual bullies - Caro, Smith and Barrett (and the other cling on's)

Even Harford painfully agreed the chances of IF notices are a million to one.
The pain these campaigners must be feeling must be killing them. Hird must be in the coaches box next year purely so I can see these campaigners explode in agony next year. Cant wait.
 
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I wonder if any of the AFL commission jaunts have involved having a look at how other sports implement their drugs policies. Recent case in the NFL results in a quarter of a season penalty for what appears to be an honest mistake sounds more than fair to me with no sweeping under carpets, no avoiding the issue, no dragging it out month after month. The breach was discovered in April & penalty handed down in July, done & dusted & all parties move the * on.

Saad & other athletes who have faced the wrath of ASADA/WADA must look at stuff like this & just scratch their heads, & as for what's happening to the EFC - :drunk::drunk::drunk: .

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11253884/philadelphia-eagles-lane-johnson-suspended-4-games
 

niceslacks

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And didn't Hird take the responsibility for this situation on that fateful day 18 months ago

The buck has to stop somewhere.

Yes we EFC have been punished but that was for poor governance

It's funny but I've always thought of this as almost confirming that if anything went on, it was behind Hird's back. Like he totally believed there was nothing to see and there was nothing wrong with the program, and because of that he was happy to take full responsibility. In retrospect it wasn't a good thing to say due to the way it has all played out.
 

bomberman500

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I wonder if any of the AFL commission jaunts have involved having a look at how other sports implement their drugs policies. Recent case in the NFL results in a quarter of a season penalty for what appears to be an honest mistake sounds more than fair to me with no sweeping under carpets, no avoiding the issue, no dragging it out month after month. The breach was discovered in April & penalty handed down in July, done & dusted & all parties move the **** on.

Saad & other athletes who have faced the wrath of ASADA/WADA must look at stuff like this & just scratch their heads, & as for what's happening to the EFC - :drunk::drunk::drunk: .

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11253884/philadelphia-eagles-lane-johnson-suspended-4-games
The american codes don't sign up to WADA/USDA so they run their own routine

The NFL has a 1st offence (4 games), 2nd offence (8 games) and 3rd offence (season, or 16 games), and thats mistake or intent, recreational and PED.
Not sure on the NBA policy but Hedo Turkuglu was suspended for 20 games for his doctor administering a banned substance.

and have no idea on the baseball
 
Apr 11, 2002
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The american codes don't sign up to WADA/USDA so they run their own routine

The NFL has a 1st offence (4 games), 2nd offence (8 games) and 3rd offence (season, or 16 games), and thats mistake or intent, recreational and PED.
Not sure on the NBA policy but Hedo Turkuglu was suspended for 20 games for his doctor administering a banned substance.

and have no idea on the baseball


Yes, I know & why I posted, oh what could have been...
 
The american codes don't sign up to WADA/USDA so they run their own routine

The NFL has a 1st offence (4 games), 2nd offence (8 games) and 3rd offence (season, or 16 games), and thats mistake or intent, recreational and PED.
Not sure on the NBA policy but Hedo Turkuglu was suspended for 20 games for his doctor administering a banned substance.

and have no idea on the baseball
I think there are areas the NFL is too weak, Ings pointedout 4 weeks for taking EPO on purpose is too light.
 
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