List Mgmt. Blair Hartley Project - 2014 - 5 list spaces confirmed

[Tigerbob]

Not sure how we fit in 6 players who combined would swallow up between $4.8-6mil in cap space and then still have enough money to sign up/keep Vlastuin Conca Ellis Vickery Grimes Grigg Astbury Miles Griffiths McDonough McBean Lennon Maric Houli Petterd S.Edwards and co. There are going to have to be a hell of a lot of guys being happy to take unders if we want to keep that core together.

Geelong did it. Hawthorn had an offer for Buddy.

Our players are overpaid as of now. No success and getting Premiership players money.

 

[_RT_]

Geelong did it. Hawthorn had an offer for Buddy.

Our players are overpaid as of now. No success and getting Premiership players money.

So what should we pay Dangerfield Cotchin Martin Deledio Rance & Riewoldt if we were to have them on our list?

 

[Tigerbob]

So what should we pay Dangerfield Cotchin Martin Deledio Rance & Riewoldt if we were to have them on our list?

Our players less than they are on. Go win a premiership and then come talk about rises. In fact win some finals then demand the money. If you want money, leave. Simple. We should not be held to ransom for under performing players.

Even Cotchin. I love him. But if he wants to take the money then go.

 

[Calcium Man]

AFL.com.au understands North Melbourne, Carlton, Richmond and Greater Western Sydney have expressed their interest in Higgins, who has put off contract talks with the Western Bulldogs until the end of this season.

It is understood the main sticking point in the Dogs' negotiations with Higgins earlier this year was the length of their proposed new offer rather than remuneration.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-29/four-clubs-circle-higgins

Bad Richmond bad

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

 

[_DBF_]

Ok I'm going to ask again, how do people expect us to make a play for Dangerfield, likely to cost $800k+, plus sign Cotchin our captain, Rance our number 1 KPD, Ellis & Martin 2 potentially elite long term midfielders and Foley & Jackson 2 long serving quality midfielders?

Jackson and Foley's contracts should be decreasing in size...

 

[tigs2010]

Jackson and Foley's contracts should be decreasing in size...

Lol at should be and replace it with will probably not be

 

[sante]

Lol at should be and replace it with will probably not be

I don't think both will be at the club next year, only one IMO

 

[tigs2010]

Ok I'm going to ask again, how do people expect us to make a play for Dangerfield, likely to cost $800k+, plus sign Cotchin our captain, Rance our number 1 KPD, Ellis & Martin 2 potentially elite long term midfielders and Foley & Jackson 2 long serving quality midfielders?

Probably the same way you said we should spend up to 400k on Higgins and Mackay

 

[sante]

Probably the same way you said we should spend up to 400k on Higgins and Mackay

Lmao

 

[sante]

You are mixing up a few issues here though

Your experienced and hard players are generally the ones who lift when needed. As happened again on Friday night.

Our kids with the skill and class are still kids. Ellis and Conca when missing for big chunks of the season, Martin has had his first season where he is really consistent, Vlas is growing into his abilities still, and Lennon is a ways to go yet. Down back, we have finally started to see what Rance and Astbury (and potentially Grimes) can offer. Up forward, we still only get glimpses, but both Ty and Griff are still young for big men.

Our class is coming through, but we cant rush it. Its Pantene time mate

So what are you getting at? We need more hacks like Higgins? Or we should just develop our own through the draft?

 

[Coxy_]

Foley & Jackson more valuable together than Dangerfield on his own. I have heard it all. Other clubs lick their lips when those 2 have the footy in their hands. I would not be worried in any way if either of them retired tomorrow.

RT, those players will re-sign for decent coin if they believe our club is heading in the right direction. Rance certainly will. Cotchin is our leader and if he signed for the same as his last deal or even took a small cut then no one else has the right to demand more $$ There is a thing called loyalty in football, it still exists. These guys will stick together to try and win a flag. Adding Danger (or someone of his quality) would be a massive boost. If it takes a bit more than his market value to get him then you work around that.

 

[_RT_]

Probably the same way you said we should spend up to 400k on Higgins and Mackay

As I've said I'm not fussed whether we get them or not.

However, if I had a choice between adding them Miles and 3 top 50 kids from the draft to the senior list or adding Miles and 5 kids from the draft I'd much prefer we go down the path of adding the mature recruits and getting in the top kids rather than going after 2-3 kids from the late rounds of the draft.

 

[tigerfan1961]

Like when Patton was apparently at Whitten oval last year when he was actually in America?

Whilst at this time in the year suggested trades may result to nothing given how much everything can change, the Boyd info is very reliable.

I can't comment on Cameron or Patton as I've not heard either of those.

Funny stuff. Absolutely zero chance of Boyd leaving the Giants

 

[etsal1]

Funny stuff. Absolutely zero chance of Boyd leaving the Giants

You were probably saying the same about Buddy going to Sydney this time last year

 

[tigerfan1961]

You were probably saying the same about Buddy going to Sydney this time last year

Hardly Mate, Franklin was always leaving Hawks

 

[wart101]

So whats up guys?

 

[etsal1]

Hardly Mate, Franklin was always leaving Hawks

But not to Sydney.

Anyway, no need to argue. I trust my info. Never given me a reason not to. And you probably trust yours. We'll just have to wait & see.

 

[wart101]

But not to Sydney.

Anyway, no need to argue. I trust my info. Never given me a reason not to. And you probably trust yours. We'll just have to wait & see.

what info?

 

[etsal1]

what info?

Boyd trade to Carlton in the works.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

Boyd trade to Carlton in the works.

What has this to do with Richmond; should be discussing this with the GWS board.

 

[etsal1]

What has this to do with Richmond; should be discussing this with the GWS board.

Originally all I did was clarify a post here that was misinterpreted from the Carlton board. Further posts from me have just been responses to posts quoting my original post

 

[_RT_]

Foley & Jackson more valuable together than Dangerfield on his own. I have heard it all. Other clubs lick their lips when those 2 have the footy in their hands. I would not be worried in any way if either of them retired tomorrow.

In terms of the roles they would in our side they are. Jackson and Foley are grunts, they are the blokes we rely on to do the heavy lifting that allows the stars like Cotchin Martin & Deledio to star. Who steps up and takes that role if Dangerfield comes in, Arnot Helbig O'Hanlon. Give me a spell none of them are anywhere near the level of Jackson and Foley are. Now before you throw up guys like Ellis Conca Vlastuin & Lennon, we've tried Ellis and Conca in that grunt inside role and neither are as effective at that as they are in their outside roles. Vlastuin and Lennon are still a year or 2 away from being able to have the same sort of impact. So in the meantime we need to rely on those other 3 to step up and fill in.

RT, those players will re-sign for decent coin if they believe our club is heading in the right direction. Rance certainly will. Cotchin is our leader and if he signed for the same as his last deal or even took a small cut then no one else has the right to demand more $$ There is a thing called loyalty in football, it still exists. These guys will stick together to try and win a flag. Adding Danger (or someone of his quality) would be a massive boost. If it takes a bit more than his market value to get him then you work around that.

So what happens if we sign up all those blokes on lower deals than they are worth and we don't land a Dangerfield or other big name FA. Then what? Who do we go and spend the cap space on then. Someone needs to be paid to ensure we meet the minimum level of the cap as to fit in a big name FA we're going to have to be under the minimum to afford $800-1mil for a top line player. That is why I said I'd rather we spread the money we have to go after a Dangerfield type and ensure that we keep all the players that we have drafted and developed over the last 5-10 years. Everyone continues to say when certain FA come up that we should draft and develop our own instead of going after these guys, but when it comes to paying them what they are worth people want to under pay them in the hope that we might land a big name FA.

As I said before pay the guys that we've drafted and developed what they are worth and ensure that we keep the list together. Outside a couple of mature players it is a very young group and the potential is there for it to become a quality side over a period of time, taking a shortcut and going after a big name FA often means someone else goes out to make room. Sydney lost Mumford to get Franklin in and while they are going ok now, down the track they are going to have to find someone better than Mike Pyke to carry their ruck. No surprise that sides like ours are also sitting there looking at who else can be pried loose.

Lets not forget last year we nearly lost Martin because he didn't want to take lesser than what he was offered, yes he did eventually sign for less, but not before he took a good look around. If the same thing was to happen again this time next year and his form stays at the level it's currently at, he'll have a few more suitors than the Giants knocking on his door. I've got no doubt that Hawthorn with their Buddy money would come calling and would happily pay what he wanted without a second thought they have already shown they're willing to look at what Cotchin would want to move.

 

[sante]

Players don't go telling each other how much they earn...

 

[Stylo]

In terms of the roles they would in our side they are. Jackson and Foley are grunts, they are the blokes we rely on to do the heavy lifting that allows the stars like Cotchin Martin & Deledio to star. Who steps up and takes that role if Dangerfield comes in, Arnot Helbig O'Hanlon. Give me a spell none of them are anywhere near the level of Jackson and Foley are. Now before you throw up guys like Ellis Conca Vlastuin & Lennon, we've tried Ellis and Conca in that grunt inside role and neither are as effective at that as they are in their outside roles. Vlastuin and Lennon are still a year or 2 away from being able to have the same sort of impact. So in the meantime we need to rely on those other 3 to step up and fill in.

Honestly RT I think you've argued yourself into a corner here. Suggesting Jackson and Foley are better for our team than Dangerfield is madness. It'd be much, much easier to find replacements for the former than to find the next Dangerfield on the cheap. Thomas and Miles are pretty decent replacements, and what did they cost? 2 rookie spots. Getting Dangerfield on big coin and trading for a Whiley type would be a far better option than keeping Jackson and Foley, who I think you're overrating significantly. Don't get me wrong, I love em, but as much as I'd love Cotchin, Dangerfield, Martin and Deledio in the same side? No fricken way.

 

[sante]

How can Hawthorn afford Danger but we couldn't?