List Mgmt. 2014 Draft Discussion

[Wizard17]

Not saying I won't take Kietel because he is the best player there for us.

Is he more of Forward or a Defender in your opinion?

 

[Dav1d]

Not saying I won't take Kietel because he is the best player there for us.

Is he more of Forward or a Defender in your opinion?

he is capable of both, real solid user of the ball for a KPP
as a back, I don't think he'd provide too much rebound though
I liken him a bit to Harry Taylor

McLaren is more my type KPD way 197cm big body, as opposed to our 3rd talls all playing as CHBs....

Payne is my favorite as a CHF works really well as a high forward kicks at goal really well too.

I actually forgot that Ellis was there makes things really hard for Dannnnnnnnnn

think they'd still be a bit too high at our second round pick though
especially Payne, who is probably more a 3rd-rookie shot; I think he is a bit like Gunston from the Hawks if I really wanted to talk him up

I was a bit disappointed in McLaren, didn't use the ball very well when he got it and tapped it down to ground a lot where he wasn't real clean below his knees
I'd pass on him at our second round pick for sure

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I don't expect Keitel to get through Carlton in the phantom, FWIW.

 

[Dav1d]

I don't expect Keitel to get through Carlton in the phantom, FWIW.

Why?

I'd be picking Ellis, they've already taken Durdin with their first pick
very similar sort of players really
not sure if they'd really compliment one another

Vickers-Willis on your radar? heh

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Why?

I'd be picking Ellis, they've already taken Durdin with their first pick
very similar sort of players really
not sure if they'd really compliment one another

Vickers-Willis on your radar? heh

Carlton's woes aren't just solved by one KPP, and in my view Keitel would fit them well. I rate Durdin as a key defender and Keitel as a key forward so drafting one has no bearing on drafting the other.

I rate Vickers-Willis as falling somewhere in the 17-30 sort of mark but I'm not entirely sure if there's much scope with him. He's absolutely in the mix though.

 

[Dav1d]

Carlton's woes aren't just solved by one KPP, and in my view Keitel would fit them well. I rate Durdin as a key defender and Keitel as a key forward so drafting one has no bearing on drafting the other.

I rate Vickers-Willis as falling somewhere in the 17-30 sort of mark but I'm not entirely sure if there's much scope with him. He's absolutely in the mix though.

didn't say that though, they need help in the midfield as much as they need in their forward line imo
and if they took both Durdin and Keitel, good luck to them LOL
I rate Keitel higher anyway

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

didn't say that though, they need help in the midfield as much as they need in their forward line imo
and if they took both Durdin and Keitel, good luck to them LOL
I rate Keitel higher anyway

Just like we need help up forward, in defense and through the midfield; you can't address all of them with one pick. They've already taken a key defender with their first pick; in terms of needs there's no difference between them taking a midfielder and them taking a key forward. Both fill needs. Talls are more difficult to find which makes me think Keitel goes.

Fair enough. Can't agree though, personally; Durdin is a much better player in most areas in my mind.

 

[Dav1d]

Just like we need help up forward, in defense and through the midfield; you can't address all of them with one pick. They've already taken a key defender with their first pick; in terms of needs there's no difference between them taking a midfielder and them taking a key forward. Both fill needs. Talls are more difficult to find which makes me think Keitel goes.

Fair enough. Can't agree though, personally; Durdin is a much better player in most areas in my mind.

well we'll see
definitely wouldn't rush to pick McKenzie though, based on needs
definitely surprised to read Cripps get picked

and I meant I rate him (Keitel) higher as a KPF
Durdin having 3 disposals in the last game U18 Championship game wasn't pretty though

 

[AjsGuns]

You're on the ball!

Write up coming shortly.

Would be pretty stoked with that
Campbell as ruck with Libba, Bonti and Stringer (if he transitions) in the midfield and Macrae and Laverde on the wings, who needs KPP's with a future midfield like that!!

What would your order of preference be between Lever, Goddard and Marchbank?

Hopefully Keitel or Mckenzie is there at our 2nd (although some think that would be a reach for Mckenzie).

 

[Dav1d]

Hopefully Keitel or Mckenzie is there at our 2nd (although some think that would be a reach for Mckenzie).

it would be slight overs, but I wouldn't think he'd be there by our 3rd round pick


wouldn't be bad if we ended up selecting Duggan/Ellis in the second round
footy commentators have commentated on the future of our midfield and how strong it potentially be
adding a Laverde/Weller/Brayshaw then Duggan/Ellis; our midfield could absolutely rock

 

[Dav1d]

Dannnnnnnnnn

you're nearly up

Ellis has been taken and now Duggan (edited)

and nice pick in Reece McKenzie
look forward to your write up

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Reece McKenzie was my second-round pick. Details of him as a player (and the reasons why I selected him over the still-available Tyler Keitel for those that are fans on here) as follows:

Pick 24 - Western Bulldogs: Reece McKenzie
Height: 196cm
Weight: 100kg
Position: Key Forward

General comments: I'm expecting this pick to polarise opinion but the first thing I want to say is that this wasn't a pick made as a reach for some height; I genuinely see Reece as having the most to work with at this pick. He had limited game time in the Champs, yes, but that happens when you're playing behind the likes of Peter Wright and Darcey Moore. This is also not a pick based on his ten-goal game, nor his sixteen-goal game; while they look handy on paper it's not so much the goals kicked but the attributes I see him having. In my opinion he's got a lot to work with, and while this may be a little higher than some think he should go, I'm confident in his ability.

Strengths: Arguably McKenzie's biggest strength is his marking ability. Everything you look for in marking contests, he's got it: he reads the ball well through the air, he has very sticky hands, he's clever with his positioning, and he is able to use his size and strength to good effect, protecting the drop of the ball and ensuring that he's in position A. This is very much why I'm attracted to McKenzie as a prospect as many of the factors that will see him succeed in AFL-level marking contests are already in place. As a marking forward he is quite versatile, being more than capable of competing one-on-one, in packs, and on the lead. Coming from a basketball background as well, his exposure to the game has been minimal compared to many others; in fact, just last year he was focused almost entirely on basketball. It is extremely rare to see what I've seen from Reece come from somebody so new to the game and this is another reason he appeals to me at this pick: the scope for his improvement is huge with some more experience and the opportunity to work within an AFL environment. I see his relative inexperience as being a positive with McKenzie as I believe a lot of his issues could be refined with greater exposure and with a more long-term focus on the game.

His basketball background has also given him some rare athletic ability for his size. He is not overly quick, nor is he your big-tank running machine, but his ability to change direction is very nice and will aid him in future. He doesn't quite use it as much as you'd like, however in future I see it being a real feature of his game. As somebody that isn't overly quick he needs to be able to catch opposition defenders out and this is something that I see his athleticism helping with significantly. He's also more than capable at ground level for a big man, ensuring that he's not completely out of the contest if the ball isn't marked.

The other thing I like with Reece is just his ability to see the game unfolding in front of him, which gives him the rare ability for a full forward of setting up play and putting teammates in positions to score - or, at the very least, in a more dangerous position. His skills can let him down and I'll touch on this later, but what I like is that he almost always has the right idea if he's up the ground. He reads the game well and is often quick to react as he sees an option, which is an invaluable trait for a big man and something that gives him added versatility, being capable of taking marks further up the field and keep progressing the ball. It also helps with his timing of leads as he's able to judge when best to get on the move and make the ball distributor's job much easier.

In short I see McKenzie as being amongst the best full forwards in the draft this year, despite not having the exposure of others. While his ten- and sixteen-goal games look good on his record they didn't really factor into my thinking and it was more the attributes that McKenzie has that stood out for me.

What he needs to work on: The number one thing that McKenzie needs to improve upon is just his consistency. As evidenced by his big hauls of goals (one for the Knights and one for Marcellin) he can really take games by the scruff of the neck when he gets going but we just haven't seen it consistently enough. He kicked eight or nine goals in five games prior to the Knights haul so it's not like he goes totally missing all the time; it's just that he probably doesn't have the consistent goal-kicking form that you'd want from a full forward taken early in the second round. As the type of player that likely attracts a lot of the ball, and is the target for a lot of bail-out kicks due to his contested marking ability, you preferably want to see him kicking bags pretty often at junior level. The major problem with this is that you're picking him based on what you think he can develop into rather than what he already is, which is obviously fraught with danger. If McKenzie can show a propensity to be a more consistent goal-kicker in the back-end of the year I wouldn't be surprised to see him as a late bolter, as known form is really the only major thing 'wrong' with his game.

The other standout 'flaw' is his kicking. It isn't the ugliest action you'll ever see and he's a long way from John Butcher levels of 'hates a goal,' but it's definitely something he'll need to work on. He gets some power through the ball and he's able to kick the ball a decent way, but it just isn't very accurate. In terms of all of set shot goal kicking, general field kicking and kicking on the run he's a lacklustre kick at best and an awful kick at worst, kicking quite a few behinds and missing targets often. His field kicking isn't a huge issue as he likely spends most of his time deep in the forward 50, but it's still something you'd like to see improve to take advantage of his other attributes. His goal kicking - specifically set-shots - however, will definitely need to be cleaned up.

I mentioned in passing earlier that he doesn't quite use his athleticism as much as I'd like and I'll spend a small amount of time expanding on that. As a big guy with good lateral movement you expect him to use it very often to run fake leads or to peel off an opponent, but he just doesn't seem to back himself to do so and seems more content to get involved in a wrestle. Of course, his one-on-one marking is a nice feature of his game, but I think he's more than capable of getting a few more 'easy' marks than he tends to. As a poor set shot, unless he can fix that up he's going to need to have a high volume of shots, and to do that he's going to need to work on using his agility to create more separation. On the lead he's reasonably competent in opening up space between he and his opponent but it's something I see him working on with the repeat efforts not quite there yet. His repeat efforts aren't bad, they just aren't there consistently yet.

Depending on how you look at it, this may or may not be a weakness; however, he isn't an overly versatile player. His only real chance to make it is as a contested-marking full forward (albeit a very, very good chance of making it in my mind), as he can't really play other roles. He's an okay option as a pinch-hitting ruckman - but a pinch-hitter is all he is. He's shown little as a defender. He's not a big-tank running machine to take those heavy stints up the ground. I don't see this as a huge weakness as I think he develops into the type of player that you don't want to move from the forward fifty too often but I would like to see him develop a little more to his game. Improving his ruck work to be able to give a little more support to the number one ruckman and allowing him to roam a little bit further up the ground and teaching him the art of doing so would be a good start.

Where he fits: At full forward. Duh.

Liam Jones desperately needs somebody alongside him and while Jack Redpath has shown the ability to bring some physicality and support to full forward he's probably not a long-term option. Similarly, Tom Campbell is a natural ruckman and is not a good enough forward to spend huge amounts of game time at full forward. I don't think Jones develops without another genuine tall around him and I see he and McKenzie really working to each other's strengths and being able to form a potent duo. With Crameri working heavily up and down the ground McKenzie is largely shielded from these duties and is allowed to play in his preferred role. As a side that runs the bail out kick a little more often than you'd like McKenzie provides a safe option to either mark the ball for a nice shot at goal, or set the ball at his feet for the likes of Hunter and Dahlhaus to work their magic.

Reece likely takes a little while to come on and spends a bit of time at Footscray but I see him developing into a really good key forward - something we haven't had for a while.

Other options: The major one here is Tyler Keitel and I know a lot will be questioning why you would take McKenzie over him. There are two major reasons: firstly, to my eye Keitel has stagnated a little in his last year of football and it's something I really don't like seeing from a tall. I prefer to see some steady improvement even if it is only marginal, as it is difficult to judge where the ceilings of these big guys are. Secondly, I don't see Tyler developing into the 'big banana' at either end of the ground and I just don't really see him as a second-round type.

Ed Vickers-Willis was another option, as well as a couple of smokies that I'll keep to myself for now.

 

[doggies ftw]

Perfect draft so far. Would be rapt with McKenzie, I hope he doesn't bolt up the ranks and is still there at our 2nd.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Really hurt me not to take one of the smokies I have in mind as I absolutely love him. Thought he was a better chance of sliding than Reece so bit the bullet. Desperately hoping he's there next pick.

 

[Dav1d]

Reece McKenzie was my second-round pick. Details of him as a player (and the reasons why I selected him over the still-available Tyler Keitel for those that are fans on here) as follows:

Laverde & McKenzie, two quite bold picks
both could potentially end up been the best players in the draft in their position though

will be interested to see what smokies you've got for the 3rd

players that didn't make the U18 squads will be the most interesting ones

definitely think McKenzie with the basketball background would appeal to our recruiters to

in the real thing, we might like a player like Drummond aggressive tackling machine that has lightning burst speed
but again, knocks on his kicking

or a skinny 'surfboard'

 

[Dav1d]

Really hurt me not to take one of the smokies I have in mind as I absolutely love him. Thought he was a better chance of sliding than Reece so bit the bullet. Desperately hoping he's there next pick.

you can tell me Dannnnnnnn

can't promise if its someone weird though that I won't react like D:

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

you can tell me Dannnnnnnn

can't promise if its someone weird though that I won't react like D:

Wouldn't say weird, I just think he's very underrated.

 

[Dav1d]

Wouldn't say weird, I just think he's very underrated.

Oh no

Not Duam Dawam? or Anthony Tipungwuti?

you have gone mad with power

 

[True Dog]

Great work Dannnnnnnnn, love the picks so far

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Oh no

Not Duam Dawam? or Anthony Tipungwuti?

you have gone mad with power

I would call both of them weird picks.

 

[Dry Rot]

Reece McKenzie was my second-round pick. Details of him as a player (and the reasons why I selected him over the still-available Tyler Keitel for those that are fans on here) as follows:

Would you say McKenzie is a natural footballer?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Would you say McKenzie is a natural footballer?

He's a basketball convert so he does have a little bit to work on, but he does see the play unfolding in front of him really well and judges his leads correctly more often than not. He's probably not a natural footballer as such but he has natural forward instincts that shine through his play.

 

[Aldo]

Great picks Dan. Laverde/Lever were my favourites for the first pick and I was really hoping you'd go with McKenzie for our second round, though I really like Keitel too.

 

[Dry Rot]

He's a basketball convert so he does have a little bit to work on, but he does see the play unfolding in front of him really well and judges his leads correctly more often than not. He's probably not a natural footballer as such but he has natural forward instincts that shine through his play.

Thanks.

Great write ups - wonder whether clubs' recruiting guys read these?

 

[Dav1d]

Thanks.

Great write ups - wonder whether clubs' recruiting guys read these?

Scouts might, doubt the actual recruiters would

the scouts would basically give the recruiter their notes/opinions on a player they've watched
then the recruiter will look more closely at that player

the recruiters can't be at every single match and I think sometimes they have the scouts at games they are at
to get a second opinion off of