No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[fishardansin]

Guys, people misrepresent each other's arguments and put up the straw man quite often- it's part and parcel of debate, unfortunately, and we're probably all guilty of it at some point.

I never do that and I resent you accusing me off it. As a moderator you can take your powers too far and it's just not fair. While some may say that I'm being unreasonable by picking on you, I must ask you this. Is it wrong that I stand up to your tyranny? Should you be allowed to silence any discussion on one hand and encourage the use of debating tricks with the other.

Please Doss, stop killing babies.

 

[Doss]

Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[fishardansin]

Oh come on! Any society that is allowed to argue using a straw man will result in a society that implodes bringing with it an apocalypse that will end the world.

That is actually a slipery slope argument.

 

[fishardansin]

Oh, I dunno, it's pretty hard to find an alternative PR strategy to the one that worked so well to ours.

Oh, wait, no it isn't.

How about this?

-Aggressively pursue legal action against all slander and libel that is found. Papers with Jake Melksham's name on them should have been filed against Gerard Healy on February 6, 2013. Probably pick a couple of scapegoats among the general public, from sites like this, from Twitter, from SEN talkback. Put a couple of heads on spikes and watch everyone else back right off.

-Aggressively leak our side of the story to News Ltd, have statements almost daily refuting claims leveled at the club, have Justin Rodski almost with a permanent TV slot. Deny until you die. If anything was actually to be proven against the club, a statement denying it would be the least of our worries. The AOD story Whateley ran with in about September should have been leaked in April or whenever it was that the AOD story broke. Dank's correspondence about "thymosin" which referred to the properties of thymomodulin should have been pushed much more aggressively and much sooner than they were.

Suddenly you have a situation where one side of the story is less vehemently pushed due to the need to actually back up a position to the extent that it cannot be construed as libelous, and the other side of the story is also being aggressively promoted. The public can therefore make their mind up based on two sides of the story, not have one side forcibly shoved down their throats until it became the perceived truth while the other side just copped it.

The PR stance is indefensible. It significantly weakened our position when it came to the fisting we copped in August, it continues to weaken our position among the general public, and it will continue to do untold damage in years to come. How many kids who have been bullied at Auskick because they wear a red sash will end up supporting Hawthorn or someone else?

To continue defending it is absolutely remarkable, and significantly weakens any other position you hold on the issue. Defend the conception of it, fine, because that can be defended. To defend its continuation past the point that it became apparent that it was doing more damage than other PR stances is just, well, I'm actually lost for words here.



Sifting through the ridiculous straw men and ad hominems here (seriously, perjoratives like "Saint Hird" and "vila [sic] in France" just make you look pathetic and petulant), there's not really a reasonable point being made.

He can and did do wrong in my eyes, but not to the extent that he has to take responsibility for things that were outside his control.

Your bullshit about him being able to defend himself if he wanted to is the kind of bullshit Hobson's choice logic that resides on the HTB. The club told him they'd prefer if he rolled over and copped something he considered unjust. If he'd refused and fought to clear his name, you and others who are insistent on finding fault with the man in everything he does would complain about him not acting in the club's interest, making it all about himself, blah blah bullshit bullshit.

What did he do to you to make you so irrationally desperate to criticise every aspect of his conduct? There are elements you can absolutely criticise, significant elements, but going beyond that like you so frequently do pushes you beyond the realm of those who have strong and legitimate gripes with his conduct into irrationality.



Cult of Hird? That's absolute bullshit, and it pretty much ends the point where I waste my ******* time reading your arguments on the issue.

I agree with most of that, except the bolded. We should have been up front with the media and agressive against stupid comments. However, that was probably not an easy thing to do early because I'm guessing for the first week everyone thought that they had done the right thing but couldn't be 100% sure of everyone else.

Once the board and staff felt confident they should have leaked heavily to News Ltd AND Fairfax. There are a couple of journalists at Fairfax that would have liked to push a more balanced approach to the story. I also get the impression that Connolly, Quayle, Flannagan and other decent writers at Fairfax would see Caro for the flog she is.

Even now leaking to New Ltd only has left an us against them battle in the press which drives Fairfax harder to push against the bombers.

Similarly Tracey Holmes on the ABC, surely there's a reporter on SBS who'd be interested in our side of the story. Also finding a journalist at independent outlets like the Conversation, or even get Hardie to right articles for it about the story.

Finally the club should be filming a doco about the whole affair. If the key staff at Essendon were able to talk candidly in the doco interviews safe in the knowledge that it would be completely safe from leak until after it was all settled it would be great to compare it to articles and video clips of comments in a sequential manner. The creme de la creme would be a plant in the scrum that harrasses Hirdy at his house to expose the scummy ambulance chasers, how they go about their business and how they view the world.

 

[fishardansin]

Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm going to fix up the grammar on that one. That master piece stems from a few years of reading Andrew Bolt articles and working as part of the crew to counter him ... and his ilk.

 

[yaco55]

The staggering thing for me is why TB4, when the suggestion it was used only at Essendon just the once seems a real stretch and the backstory (using good thymosin other times/clubs) elaborate to the point of absurdity. Surely they would've had better luck trying to claim a scalp (if that is the intention) for AOD?

The no show cause for Cronulla I thought was expained by Dank being "ahead of the rules". Bock's retirement without any further discussion will always leave the possibility that other deals have been made, even if it is a conspiracy theory it isn't the worst one out there.

I am in total agreement about the ASADA situation - Deals made/deals broken/political interference - The book will make for good reading

 

[yaco55]

Has Hardie accepted a pledge from a BF antagonist for his proposed book.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

That is actually a slipery slope argument.

Eh, you say potato, I say potato too because who the * would say patarto...

 

[cymarak]

The club is always bigger than the INDIVIDUAL - There can be no other way.

Yes, but how the club treats individuals demonstrates its values and shows what the club stands for.

Any club that is prepared to do the wrong thing by any individual in order to improve its overall position is no better than the AFL.

 

[Despair]

lol gotta love the HTB. If anybody creates a thread that doesn't absolutely lambast Essendon FC the first reply is always "Oh ok.. I guess nothing happened @ EFC blah blah blah nothing to see"

Seriously... their foam level is >9000

 

[Doss]

We're dealing with a story of such clear outcomes with no twists at all here you see, Despair.

Only complete polar opposites are allowed.

 

[rumply]

 

[scottmclaren]

Legal is fine but when the Governing body has queries over the legality of the program it's a cause for concern. And whether it's right or wrong, ASADA has issues with the supplements programs - Though this is more a case of political interference.

What I don't like about this argument is that the AFL relaxed its injection policy in 2012 to allow no more than 50ml every 6 hours.

If the AFL was really concerned with the so called Phys'edders they really were asleep at the wheel.

We see it all the time with the rules committee constantly changing the laws of the game to suit some agenda each year. They are pathetic and IMO just a culpable as EFC for this mess.

EFC has a mandate to play to win, AFL has a mandate to run a fair competion.

Both have been failing for the best part of 14 years.

 

[scottmclaren]

And let's remember Dank and Vlad are the only people to be suspected/accused of actual illegal activity.

 

[baz_machine]

He? How many guys you know have Robbie Williams avatars?

Robbie Williams probably would, so there's one.

 

[Jade]

God that's awful.

 

[rumply]

God that's awful.

Yeah i debated posting but it did make me laugh a bit in spots

 

[Whispering_Jack]

God that's awful.

Horrendously embarrassing but also not terribly put together haha

 

[Mercurial89]

God that's awful.

I have no problem people making these things because some are done quite well, but god ones like this just make you cringe

 

[Dave]

Do you think Bomber will tell the truth to the media ?

Of course not.

So to clarify, you're saying Bomber lies to the media?

 

[baz_machine]

The question of if one person is bigger than the club, seems to be the point of contention for a few on here.

I think the answer is obvious that, no, one individual is not bigger than the club. But in this case it has come down to how much is the club willing to protect the individual.

Now to me EFC is a traditional, conservative, family based club (although you could say that about many clubs) that prides itself on its loyalty to all past and present employees.

I for one, would be very disappointed if the club abandoned this just to appease the "masses" when we aren't even sure what went on.

 

[Doss]

The problem with the initial PR strategy was two fold. Firstly, as Ben noted, it allowed the story from one side only to be told and that became the accepted, incontrovertible truth among so many people. Then, changing tack as we did around August 2013- by then, most people's impressions and opinions were so set in stone by then that our sudden bluster looked like desperate, flailing obfuscation.

It's interesting to ponder what the strategy would have been had Little been in charge in February 2013 and not Evans, and where the narrative of the saga would have gone as compared to where it did.

 

[HirdyLannister]

lol gotta love the HTB. If anybody creates a thread that doesn't absolutely lambast Essendon FC the first reply is always "Oh ok.. I guess nothing happened @ EFC blah blah blah nothing to see"

Seriously... their foam level is >9000

 

[Dave]

The club always survives in times of adversity - But at some stage the club needs to make a praamatic decision going into the future.

Which is what exactly? You mention the way the club is spending money in court - what's your alternative?

 

[baz_machine]

The problem with the initial PR strategy was two fold. Firstly, as Ben noted, it allowed the story from one side only to be told and that became the accepted, incontrovertible truth among so many people. Then, changing tack as we did around August 2013- by then, most people's impressions and opinions were so set in stone by then that our sudden bluster looked like desperate, flailing obfuscation.

It's interesting to ponder what the strategy would have been had Little been in charge in February 2013 and not Evans, and where the narrative of the saga would have gone as compared to where it did.

I always think, "What would Eddie have done?"