Society/Culture Australia, the home of subtle racism.

[kfc1]

As the father of part aboriginal children, I have witnessed this on an almost daily basis. I have seen the distress that this subtle racism has on people.

I have raised the issue on this site before, only to be howled down by some.

Well, it appears that it is a fact afterall.

Cos, you know, to prove anything on the internet you have to provide a link to a study...

http://www.news.com.au/national/bey...m-and-depression/story-fncynjr2-1227004788393

How does this compare to other countries?

 

[kfc1]

I think your glasses may be a little rose tinted.

There were no glasses before the europeans arrived.

 

[slicedndiced]

How does this compare to other countries?

I didn't realise that this was a competition.

Surely we should fix the problems in our own backyard before looking globally?

And yes, I'm well aware of how we lecture countries like China on human rights, for example, and then sneer when they throw back at us our mistreatment of aboriginal people for centuries.

 

[kfc1]

Beyond Blue have put out an ad that deals directly with some of the finding identified in OP:

Excellent ad, think it goes a long way to showing aboriginal australians are not much different to you or i, to overcome the typical view of drunk/abusive/feral aborigines that dominates cities.

 

[kfc1]

I didn't realise that this was a competition.

Surely we should fix the problems in our own backyard before looking globally?

And yes, I'm well aware of how we lecture countries like China on human rights, for example, and then sneer when they throw back at us our mistreatment of aboriginal people for centuries.

I thought you might reply like that. What I mean is how are we comparing to others? To me, 90% saying they would hire an aboriginal person and 10% not is a pretty good achievement - still plenty of work to do but a success that should be acknowledged given where we are coming from. Benchmarking against other countries would most likely demonstrate Australia is one of the least racist places in the world and therefore be a great incentive to continue the good work and progress.

 

[Norwood1878]

Well this thread went down hill.

IMHO i think there are still many who think that discrimination of other minorities in Australia can be compared to that of the Aboriginals. I have no idea how it would feel, as a culture/race to live in a country where my ancestors were victims of genocide, social experimentation/engineering, sterilization, displaced from my home, invasion etc all the way up to my life time where only later did i know that some of the aboriginal kids at my school were actually part of the stolen generation and i'm talking about the early 1970s.
The reason i posted Jane Elliots experiment was to illustrate who quickly those childrens mood changed, they became sad, angry, belligerent, shut down and had learning difficulties all in a matter of hours, hence why i said now imagine this over many generations plus to a much higher degree.
I simply believe that people should keep this in mind.

 

[slicedndiced]

I thought you might reply like that. What I mean is how are we comparing to others? To me, 90% saying they would hire an aboriginal person and 10% not is a pretty good achievement - still plenty of work to do but a success that should be acknowledged given where we are coming from. Benchmarking against other countries would most likely demonstrate Australia is one of the least racist places in the world and therefore be a great incentive to continue the good work and progress.

What does it prove though, and who benefits from such a comparison?

The good people who aren't racist get a nice feeling and the racists don't give a toss.

That doesn't change the fact that this stuff occurs every hour of every day here.

I lived in one of the most openly racist countries in the world, (Japan), but at least there racism was open and clear. Foreigners could NOT do X, Y or Z etc. There was nothing subtle or even remotely disturbing about it at all. More an annoyance.

I think this study proves that, although we have, mostly, moved on from the boong, coon, ni gger culture, the underbelly of racial abuse has shifted to far less obvious strategies and behaviours.

Hence, I wouldn't rate us as one of the least racist countries in the world at all.

 

[kfc1]

What does it prove though, and who benefits from such a comparison?
The good people who aren't racist get a nice feeling and the racists don't give a toss.
That doesn't change the fact that this stuff occurs every hour of every day here.

Several posts that you have made have outlined the impacts that constant negatively have on Aboriginal self esteem, depression etc. - the same applies here. The people who need to change aren't likely to be swayed by a big stick approach, they are more likely to resent the cause which is using a big stick. So encouragement is a legitimate piece of the puzzle.

It's akin to your approach of beating a bloke up vs talking to him man on man to help him understand what he has done wrong and see it from the other person's point of view.

I lived in one of the most openly racist countries in the world, (Japan), but at least there racism was open and clear. Foreigners could NOT do X, Y or Z etc. There was nothing subtle or even remotely disturbing about it at all. More an annoyance.

I think this study proves that, although we have, mostly, moved on from the boong, coon, ni gger culture, the underbelly of racial abuse has shifted to far less obvious strategies and behaviours.

Hence, I wouldn't rate us as one of the least racist countries in the world at all.

I'm not sure why you would say that the open racism in Japan is not remotely disturbing.

 

[slicedndiced]

Several posts that you have made have outlined the impacts that constant negatively have on Aboriginal self esteem, depression etc. - the same applies here. The people who need to change aren't likely to be swayed by a big stick approach, they are more likely to resent the cause which is using a big stick. So encouragement is a legitimate piece of the puzzle.

How is this a big stick approach?

It's akin to your approach of beating a bloke up vs talking to him man on man to help him understand what he has done wrong and see it from the other person's point of view.

Say what now?

I didn't say that at all. I would encourage you to read what I wrote again.

I'm not sure why you would say that the open racism in Japan is not remotely disturbing.

Because it is not a personal, in your face, abusive type of thing.

In actual fact, the Japanese would be some of the friendliest, loveliest and most decent people on earth.

You know what the rules are in regards to certain things, such as rentals, property ownership, business entrepreneurship and you abide by them. They are obviously slanted against foreigners, but it's their country and their rules. So you know exactly what to expect.

Counter that with a Japanese couple walking down an Australian city street, or public transport, and being labelled a gook, slant eye or whatever, and it is completely different.

 

[Maggie5]

So helpful at this point Maggie.

So helpful.

Not specifically directed at you, general comment as I believe us 'white' people have contributed a great deal to the situation.

 

[kfc1]

How is this a big stick approach?

Focusing on the negative rather than the positive is a big stick approach. You're familiar with carrot/stick terminology in regard to behaviour change?

Because it is not a personal, in your face, abusive type of thing.

In actual fact, the Japanese would be some of the friendliest, loveliest and most decent people on earth.

You know what the rules are in regards to certain things, such as rentals, property ownership, business entrepreneurship and you abide by them. They are obviously slanted against foreigners, but it's their country and their rules. So you know exactly what to expect.

Counter that with a Japanese couple walking down an Australian city street, or public transport, and being labelled a gook, slant eye or whatever, and it is completely different.

It's also out of the ordinary for Australia.

 

[slicedndiced]

Focusing on the negative rather than the positive is a big stick approach. You're familiar with carrot/stick terminology in regard to behaviour change?

Yes, I'm aware of it, and it is sociology rubbish for mine.

We pat the good people on the head and ignore the racist undertones elsewhere?

If I am not getting you, I apologise, I am crook as a dog today .

It's also out of the ordinary for Australia.

I would strongly disagree with that, from an Aboriginal and an Asian perspective. Not to mention our irrational fear of Muslims in general.

 

[kfc1]

Yes, I'm aware of it, and it is sociology rubbish for mine.

We pat the good people on the head and ignore the racist undertones elsewhere?

If I am not getting you, I apologise, I am crook as a dog today .

Nope, it's about encouraging people to change rather than instructing them to change. The former almost always is more effective than the latter.

I would strongly disagree with that, from an Aboriginal and an Asian perspective. Not to mention our irrational fear of Muslims in general.

I suppose it also depends on where you live - small town in outback Australia vs Sydney or Melbourne. My experience is definitely city based.

 

[slicedndiced]

Nope, it's about encouraging people to change rather than instructing them to change. The former almost always is more effective than the latter.

Well, we have a poster on here, as an example, who labels anybody who holds a view that Aboriginals are treated unfairly and subjected to racism, as having a black armband view on the subject and he will not be swayed because, well, he knows!

So I don't believe that any amount of education or encouragement will change him, and his ilk, who are unfortunately quite prevalent in society.

This study and subsequent advertising program is more focused upon people who display racism in far less obvious ways, or even without knowing it.

This provides them with a mirror to their behaviour and a chance to reflect upon it. How that is instructing them, I don't know.

I suppose it also depends on where you live - small town in outback Australia vs Sydney or Melbourne. My experience is definitely city based.

Totally disagree.

Most country people that I know are far more tolerant to Aboriginals, (and other peoples in general), than city people and I believe that is a common misconception held by many outside of the bush. Sure there is a redneck element, but most country people actually know Aboriginal people in their daily lives. Asian wives are also quite common and embraced. Muslims, in towns like Pt Headland and Katanning are a valued part of the community.

In the cities, where I am now, unfortunately, I see all levels of racism towards Aboriginals, Asians and Africans on a daily level. (There is a large Sudanese population close to where I live).

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Well, we have a poster on here, as an example, who labels anybody who holds a view that Aboriginals are treated unfairly and subjected to racism, as having a black armband view on the subject and he will not be swayed because, well, he knows!

So I don't believe that any amount of education or encouragement will change him, and his ilk, who are unfortunately quite prevalent in society.

This study and subsequent advertising program is more focused upon people who display racism in far less obvious ways, or even without knowing it.

This provides them with a mirror to their behaviour and a chance to reflect upon it. How that is instructing them, I don't know.




Totally disagree.

Most country people that I know are far more tolerant to Aboriginals, (and other peoples in general), than city people and I believe that is a common misconception held by many outside of the bush. Sure there is a redneck element, but most country people actually know Aboriginal people in their daily lives. Asian wives are also quite common and embraced. Muslims, in towns like Pt Headland and Katanning are a valued part of the community.

In the cities, where I am now, unfortunately, I see all levels of racism towards Aboriginals, Asians and Africans on a daily level. (There is a large Sudanese population close to where I live).

Get a clue.

I have never denied Aboriginal people are the victims of racism.

I just choose to look forward and not backward, and have little interest in these little existential chin stroking sessions about 'invisible racism'.

Some dude gets sat next too at a bus stop by an aboriginal and shuffles away from him.....that's racism now is it? Christ almighty we have become a sensitive pack of pansys.

It's this sort of hyper sensitive nonsense that's creating the cry baby Adam Goodes' of this world.

When they reinstitute non aboriginal drinking areas in pubs, aboriginal only seats on bus, no right to votes....give me a yell and I'll be the first man to fire up.

Deal with the s**t that matters...health, education and employment....leave the pseudo intellectual drivel about 'invisible racism' to the sociology departments of our university sector.

 

[slicedndiced]

I'll be right back, after I tell my kids that the worthy ex-copper in Albany believes that every time they feel "invisible racism" it is just a figment of their imagination.

Muppet.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Deal with the s**t that matters...health, education and employment....leave the pseudo intellectual drivel about 'invisible racism' to the sociology departments of our university sector.

Oh yeah this one.

Keep kidding yourself the 2 are completely divorced.

 

[Fletched]

For anyone who feels they have something to offer in this thread and all others concerning the plight of the legal owners of this land, know that what I say is fact. There is nothing to claim. history does not lie.

There were no gaols here before the Europeans invaded. No racism, no pollution, no global financial crisis, no stolen generation, no royal commissions into sex abuse in churches. No food shortages, no dirty water, no salination of the Murray, no aids, no autism, no homeless, no drug addicts, no religous persecution. I can go on forever and day about how their elders knew how to govern. There women knew how to bring up kids, didn't need pay a fortune to dump them on strangers during the day. Our European elders do not how to govern.

There was little to no education, health or defense

There was little to no farming methods only far more unsustainable hunting methods

There were little to no advances in science and technology

There wasn't a democratic government

I can go on forever and a day about how much stronger as a country Australia is now when compared to Australia in the 16th century which contained about half a million people divided into hundreds of different groups not all of which cooperated politically or militarily with each other.

 

[Norwood1878]

There was little to no education, health or defense

There was little to no farming methods only far more unsustainable hunting methods

There were little to no advances in science and technology

There wasn't a democratic government

I can go on forever and a day about how much stronger as a country Australia is now when compared to Australia in the 16th century which contained about half a million people divided into hundreds of different groups not all of which cooperated politically or militarily with each other.

40 000 years of culture that out lasted empires the likes of Rome makes your supposition null and void. Perhaps you need to re calibrate your ideas on what an effective society must look like.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Unit's last back story didn't involve being a cop did it?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

40 000 years of culture that out lasted empires the likes of Rome makes your supposition null and void. Perhaps you need to re calibrate your ideas on what an effective society must look like.

Good on em for 'surviving'.

Sure as hell weren't evolving that's for sure.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Unit's last back story didn't involve being a cop did it?

We've been on BF too long if we remember UNIT.

 

[DardySingh360]

God this board is ******* pathetic.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

We've been on BF too long if we remember UNIT.

At least Just Maybe finally ****ed off for good.

 

[Norwood1878]

Good on em for 'surviving'.

Sure as hell weren't evolving that's for sure.

Again, it's how you wish to view modern western cultures. I wouldn't call the worship of celebrities evolving or stripping of the earth natural resources including the oceans evolving or high rates of suicide and depression evolving etc etc.