The 5 - Rioli, Hale, Sewell, Spanger, Lake

[Hawk Dork]

If an opposition perceive they have an advantage and start driving all their forward entries through 1 forward and that forward kicks 4 or 5 is that a win ?
The bottom line is kicking more than them at the end.

 

[Agent Smith]

You aren't necessarily wrong but the biggest myth in football is that we lose to Geelong because of what happens in their forward line. We lose because we just can't kick a score against them. We routinely fail to kick 100 points against them (which is a bench mark winning score for us). On the two occasions we kicked 100 points we won one and lost one.

DateVenueHome v Away TeamsResultHigh DisposalsHigh Goals
Round 5, 21 Apr 2014MCGGeelong defeats Hawthorn106-87S. Johnson 34T. Hawkins 5
Preliminary Final, 20 Sep 2013MCGHawthorn defeats Geelong102-97S. Mitchell 38S. Johnson 4
J. Gunston 4
Round 15, 6 Jul 2013MCGGeelong defeats Hawthorn82-72S. Mitchell 36J. Murdoch 3
Round 1, 1 Apr 2013MCGHawthorn defeated by Geelong86-93S. Mitchell 37-
Round 19, 3 Aug 2012MCGHawthorn defeated by Geelong116-118J. Selwood 29T. Hawkins 6
Round 2, 9 Apr 2012MCGGeelong defeats Hawthorn92-90S. Mitchell 30J. Podsiadly 5
Qualifying Final, 9 Sep 2011MCGGeelong defeats Hawthorn98-67S. Johnson 27
G. Birchall 27L. Franklin 4
Round 12, 11 Jun 2011MCGGeelong defeats Hawthorn88-83S. Mitchell 38J. Podsiadly 6
Round 5, 26 Apr 2011MCGHawthorn defeated by Geelong98-117J. Selwood 32-
Round 15, 10 Jul 2010MCGGeelong defeats Hawthorn85-83G. Ablett 32M. Stokes 4

True, but it is the cheap goals they get when they bomb it long into the forward line and isolate Schoenmakers against their FF that becomes quite telling. They know how to do it and they do it effectively. They don't get this cheap avenue to goal when Lake plays. They are confident they can match it with our midfield, and quite rightly so, so it boils down to how our backline functions against them and time and time again the lack of a big bodied backman has proven our downfall. Only in the Prelim last year have they fallen over, and that is because they ran out of puff from playing in their third straight final, whereas we had the previous week rested.

 

[play2win]

True, but it is the cheap goals they get when they bomb it long into the forward line and isolate Schoenmakers against their FF that becomes quite telling. They know how to do it and they do it effectively. They don't get this cheap avenue to goal when Lake plays. They are confident they can match it with our midfield, and quite rightly so, so it boils down to how our backline functions against them and time and time again the lack of a big bodied backman has proven our downfall. Only in the Prelim last year have they fallen over, and that is because they ran out of puff from playing in their third straight final, whereas we had the previous week rested.

the only reason they were still near us in the end was our poor conversion. we were a 5-6 goal better team than them in the prelim. the same case could be mounted in some of our other close losses we've had with them. the mental demons have been exorcised. time to look forward rather than continue to dwell on our historical shortfalls.

 

[Brishawk]

True, but it is the cheap goals they get when they bomb it long into the forward line and isolate Schoenmakers against their FF that becomes quite telling. They know how to do it and they do it effectively. They don't get this cheap avenue to goal when Lake plays. They are confident they can match it with our midfield, and quite rightly so, so it boils down to how our backline functions against them and time and time again the lack of a big bodied backman has proven our downfall. Only in the Prelim last year have they fallen over, and that is because they ran out of puff from playing in their third straight final, whereas we had the previous week rested.

The leading goal scorers for each match are right there. Hawking leading goal kicker twice (5,6) and Podsiadly twice (5,6). Never have they both kicked bags against us at the same time in the last ten matches.
Hawkins kicked 5, 1, 0, 2, 6, 3, 2, DNP, 1, DNP
Podsiadly kicked DNP, 0, 1, 2, 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 2
Bold is games Shoey played in. Basically Hawkins dominated exactly one match in which Shoey played. Gibbo usually picked up Pods and pretty sure in one of his two big games Gibbo had to be moved off Pods and Shoey went to him which stopped the flow of goals. The one game we won Hawkins had a stuffed back and pods looked finished. So while I am glad Lake played in the prelim he was not faced with the same opponent that shoey has faced.

 

[Brishawk]

It is very hard to work out who is on who at any time with the way we defend at the moment. He has been torn apart by Cloke (Multiple times), Hawkins (multiple times), Tippett (multiple times). When I say torn apart I am more talking about the field of play. As for poor returns you have to look at more than goals. If his opponent kicks 3.3 or 2.4 against him, that is not so much to do with how well Schoey has gone as to how badly the forward has converted. I also don't byuy into the fact it is Schoey directing the forward to poor positions, that happens mainly due to midfield pressure from my perspective. The worry here is that if he plays the EXACT same defensive game but the forward converts, then you are looking at anything from a 4 to 5 goal game

Cloke and Hawkins have kicked bags of 5 on him. Tippett has kicked bags of 4 on him. In many of those outings the forward have had big scoring opportunities and not converted. Tippett dominated him when we beat the Crows by 50 odd points in 2012 but kicked 0.3 in the first qtr from memory and 1 OOF. Tippett had 4 contested marks and 8 marks all up against Shoey. If he converts better, that can easily be 6 goal game. In the PF Tippett ragged him and kicked 4.1 with 11 marks and 7 contested marks against Schoe. That is monstering a defender these days. Same as his only bad game last year against Cloke (5.3 and 5 contested marks). That is a hammering and that was on the back of his 2 best performances of his career if you ask me.

He has done well against forwards like Schultz, but he is not your typical monster forward. It is the big guys I worry about and I agree that he played a great game against the Crows. The great games are not the norm at the moment. He might be conceding a reasonable amount of goals against his direct opponent (at times due to poor accuracy against him) but who kicked the goal from the dropped mark on the HBF last Saturday? His errors seem to come at the worst times and I don't think that is a co-incidence. I think it is because he does not handle the high pressure well.

I like Schoey, there is plenty to work with but he has not come on much since 2012 and the fact is, He is vulnerable against the bigger forwards when the ball comes in high and fast. That is a big worry for finals footy in my book. He has gone backwards from his early form last year and that could be due to his knee, but it is a worry for the pointy end of this season.

Brishawk I am a Schoey fan, I am just worried about his lack of development against his one true cryptonite, the high fast ball in against big blokes. Look at the top4 and tell me you are comfortable with that for the finals, if he has to play no.1 key post. We have a midfield that can give up multiple center breaks at times, I would be more confident with someone I knew could half more contests against their opponent 1 on 1.

I hope he is working on playing the bigger boys, I have forgiven him for his efforts against them early on but the guy is a man mountain now. He needs to work on his positioning and playing the ball I think.

Its like you expect forwards never to beat defenders. Hawkins has kicked exactly 1 bag of 5 or more against Shoey (Shoey was 21 at the time) and yet shoey gets blamed for every loss against Geelong until Lake shows up. The reality doesn't match perception. Just as people want to dismiss every success Shoey has as the product of midfield pressure and bad kicking or the player dominated 'up the field' they also want to hang him for every mistake he makes and goal conceded to his opponent without any recognition of those very same factors. Tippett had 4 shots of goal (only 3 directly opposed to Tippett and two of which were 45+ m out) and Tippett scarcely had a touch other than that and yet his game is questioned. Are you honestly saying Lake would have done martially better?

 

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

Litherland has been Superb. But who do you drop ? Stratton I think right now is still ahead, Birch is a star and Suckling offers something very important. I just don't know who else goes.

The booming kick of Litherland goes almost (or further) than that of Suckling. Litherland's tackling presure and speed is non existent with Suckling. So for me it's clearly Litherland for Suckling.

 

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

Make no mistake, Sewell will be back and he will be critical come finals. One of the best finals player at the club and his hardness and winning the hard ball will be pivotal to us , especially against the swines who will come at us very hard next time, having Sewell in these games is reassuring, unfortunately he will probably be in for langers,whatever the case may be we must have Brad Sewell in the side come September, just ask anybody who has played this game.

Agree with you on having Swell for finals but instead of Langers I like to see him replace Simpson. I think Langer's hard nut attitude will be needed in the finals.

 

[Roy boys]

The booming kick of Litherland goes almost (or further) than that of Suckling. Litherland's tackling presure and speed is non existent with Suckling. So for me it's clearly Litherland for Suckling.

Litherland does alot of things better then Suckling, kicking is most definitely not one.

 

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

I have all 5 in my best 22 for finals.

Stratton Lake Hodge
Birchall Gibson Spangher
Smith Mitchell Hill
Rioli Roughead Burgoyne
Breust Gunston Hale
McEvoy Lewis Shiels
Puopolo Simpkin Sewell + Langford

Unlucky ones: Schoey, Suckling, Litherland.
All three are competing for Spangher's spot in the backline. Spangher gets my vote because IMO he is a better defender than Schoey and Litherland, and although Suckling may be a better kick, Spangher is better defensively and we have other elite kickers in the team to fill this void.

Langford is my sub because I think he is critical to some stoppages. His attack on the ball led to a lot of 50-50s going our way against the Swans. Having him fresh in the last quarter of a big final could be very effective.

Ultimately this team is almost filled with experienced players you'd rely on in big games.

Like your team with few minor changes. Would replace Litherland for Simpkin. That will allow Hodge to move to center and Litherland in back pocket.
This will be my DREAM TEAM. Any thoughts?

 

[Ranj Sri Lanka]

Litherland does alot of things better then Suckling, kicking is most definitely not one.

But did you notice in recent matches that Sucklings kicks gone at 30 degrees and not 45 or 60 and seems to fall short?

 

[Pessimistic]

Even Rioli.

Unless he is sub, who becomes the sub to make way for him? Depending on hammies that person may replace cylil anyway

If cyril and or sewell come in just before finals, they are prime candidates to be sub


Also I note people are saying we could have up to five selection dilemmas. Never happened this season yet and probably wont. The question will be can xxx last a whole game ?

 

[Thaihawk]

It would not surprise me if we took a "horses for courses" attitude into the finals. With so many available options open, we will pick the best side to line up on our opponents. This could mean players like Simkin, Langford, Shoey, Spangher, Hale, Ceglar, and even Lake could be in one week and out the next. Hypothetically, if Hawkins were to be injured when we played Geelong. Would we need Lake?

 

[seysearles]

4 weeks puts him in the frame for the geelong game doesn't it? if not, then he can have a stroll with the pies.

1week = Melbourne
2weeks = Fremantle
3weeks = Geelong
4weeks = Collingwood
5weeks = QF

 

[play2win]

1week = Bulldogs
2weeks = Fremantle
3weeks = Geelong
4weeks = Collingwood
5weeks = QF

you need to add in: 2 weeks = Melbourne

 

[Main Man]

It would not surprise me if we took a "horses for courses" attitude into the finals. With so many available options open, we will pick the best side to line up on our opponents. This could mean players like Simkin, Langford, Shoey, Spangher, Hale, Ceglar, and even Lake could be in one week and out the next. Hypothetically, if Hawkins were to be injured when we played Geelong. Would we need Lake?

Yes, purely because he would literally mark every ball that is kicked into a contest.

 

[RustyHawk]

I saw Spaghar training with the senior squad in a light session on Monday. He looks like he will be available for selection at least and I hope plays sending The Shoe forward.

 

[Roy boys]

But did you notice in recent matches that Sucklings kicks gone at 30 degrees and not 45 or 60 and seems to fall short?

He can miss the odd target don't get me wrong but I thought he launched 5 or 6 successful attacks with his foot on Saturday night. Also for a bloke who always criticised for his defensive efforts (rightfully so in some instances) I don't remember him getting all that many goals kicked on him.

 

[Brishawk]

I saw Spaghar training with the senior squad in a light session on Monday. He looks like he will be available for selection at least and I hope plays sending The Shoe forward.

Be interesting if we get Sphang, Lake and Shoey all fit and available at the same time if the club does decide to hold its nerve and play Shoey forward in finals. We have been so undermaned for tall defenders this year we really have given that structure very little exposure so even if on paper it is the best setup we are not going to be well practiced at it.

 

[seysearles]

you need to add in: 2 weeks = Melbourne

Week.1 should read Melbourne

1week = Melbourne
2weeks = Fremantle
3weeks = Geelong
4weeks = Collingwood
5weeks = QF

 

[play2win]

Week.1 should read Melbourne

1week = Melbourne
2weeks = Fremantle
3weeks = Geelong
4weeks = Collingwood
5weeks = QF

You're giving me nothing!

 

[Agent Smith]

Be interesting if we get Sphang, Lake and Shoey all fit and available at the same time if the club does decide to hold its nerve and play Shoey forward in finals. We have been so undermaned for tall defenders this year we really have given that structure very little exposure so even if on paper it is the best setup we are not going to be well practiced at it.

The beauty of it is we could continually swing Schoey and Spangh b/w CHF and CHB and confuse the crap out of everyone!

 

[Davo-27]

Litherland does alot of things better then Suckling, kicking is most definitely not one.

idk about that, Sucklings kick is like the Myth of The Loch Ness Monster, we all keep hearing about how good it is and yet none of us have seen it, we get shown the dribbling along the ground or the aimless 50m punts very often though, i jest he is a decent kick, but by god does he know how to murder a kick as well........

i agree with most people in this thread, Litherland to stay in, Lake/Rioli/Sewell in for most likely WW/Langford/Schoey

depending on team balance, Schoey may stay in or Spangher might go in ect........wouldn't it be funny if Roughead gets injured and Schoey ends up kicking 10 in the GF

 

[parsons nose]

idk about that, Sucklings kick is like the Myth of The Loch Ness Monster, we all keep hearing about how good it is and yet none of us have seen it, we get shown the dribbling along the ground or the aimless 50m punts very often though, i jest he is a decent kick, but by god does he know how to murder a kick as well........

i agree with most people in this thread, Litherland to stay in, Lake/Rioli/Sewell in for most likely WW/Langford/Schoey

depending on team balance, Schoey may stay in or Spangher might go in ect........wouldn't it be funny if Roughead gets injured and Schoey ends up kicking 10 in the GF

I've seen it. Saw it several times on the weekend. In fact his left boot was directly responsible for many of our forward thrusts and some goals too!

 

[Davo-27]

I've seen it. Saw it several times on the weekend. In fact his left boot was directly responsible for many of our forward thrusts and some goals too!

lies all lies, i have my binoculars primed

 

[Hawks13]

Like your team with few minor changes. Would replace Litherland for Simpkin. That will allow Hodge to move to center and Litherland in back pocket.
This will be my DREAM TEAM. Any thoughts?

Hey mate. I think you make a good point for Lithers being in the back pocket. In that case, I would make Simpkin the sub instead of Langford and send Lithers to the backline.