No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[cymarak]

As I have said a few times now (what hasn't already been said in this saga?), WADA rules are far from black and white.

S2 bans substances that "act like" (paraphrasing) HGH. It is very murky what "acts like".
WADA maintain some list of substances it deems banned because they "act like". But if something is not on the list, you use it at your own risk, because it may later be added to the list, and when it is, it is deemed to have "acted like" since the day dot.

I'm not sure the bit I've bolded is an accurate characterisation.

WADA may explicitly add substance X to the prohibited list, but that doesn't automatically mean it will be deemed to have retrospectively acted like prohibited substance Y.

WADA may think that X acts like Y, but as far as I'm aware WADA don't get to be the final arbiter of that - it's something that could be tested in a tribunal / court / arbitration setting if push came to shove. WADA don't get to say, for argument's sake, that "chewing gum acts like steroids", and have that become unchallengeable fact - they would have to be able to substantiate that.

But I agree with your core point - if you use something that isn't explicitly prohibited in its own right, the practical responsibility is with you to make sure that you have a solid defence if WADA later claim that what you're using falls foul of The Code.

 

[cymarak]

As I said... "lip service" to attendances nothing more... as long as they TV dollars keep rolling.. they are happy.

Problem is.. what happens when there aren't enough eyes watching TV sets to justify the big $$.. we already have half the clubs on life support.. I just think the AFL are so short sighted.. they have lost track of where they came from.. it was only 15-20 years ago that it jumped from a small 'suburban' style comp to this mega conglomerate.. and everybody is now convinced it will be this Bohemith forever..

I just don't know if they can afford to be so cavalier with the game I love.

It's seemed to me for a long time that we've gone from a situation where the AFL / VFL existed solely to enable footy clubs to play football, to a situation where the footy clubs exist just to enable the AFL to make money.

The AFL's gone from being the administrator / coordinator of the game to thinking that it 'owns' football, and everyone else works for it.

 

[Jade]

Taking the position that Caro is correct (lol) in her claim that fan fatigue is affecting attendances, hasn't she just pointed out she is a major reason why attendances are down??

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[vaughany]

& no Sunday twilights anywhere east of the sa border

Spot on there is room for a Sunday twilight fixture but only interstate or if there is a public holiday the next day...

 

[vaughany]

Stand by for The Age to somehow draw a long bow and link Essendon somehow to the drug scandals happening currently happening in the Commonwealth Games over in Glasgow........

 

[vaughany]

On a side note...probably not worth creating a thread over but the club has produced a code of conduct for members......

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Essendon/Club HQ/Members Code of Conduct.pdf

 

[2one2]

On a side note...probably not worth creating a thread over but the club has produced a code of conduct for members......

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Essendon/Club HQ/Members Code of Conduct.pdf

TL,DR: don't be a campaigner

 

[vaughany]

TL,DR: don't be a campaigner

pretty much.

 

[Walesy]

If EFC scandal fatigue is a real thing, then the AFL needs to start threatening the accreditation of those trolls who keep it in the pages every second day.

For the good of the game of course.

 

[Mercurial89]

You could also look at What sells papers? Negativity, scandal this is ALL that is reported day in day out, Who will be sacked, who should be dropped, which team is falling. There is never anything positive, no focus on the good stories. we just so happen to have been apart of one of the biggest scandals ever. A large part of crowds over the years id say would be neutrals, with of course the usual die hard supporters going every week. But if you are just sick of hearing about the game (ill put my hand up here i dont pay attention with any other teams, havnt been to a single neutral game this year) why would you fork out money as Rines said when you can sit at home and turn it off when the game got boring?

Id actually love to see the ratings when compared to other years, are attendances down but viewers up as people decide to stay down? Or are numbers down all round because put quite simply, people are sick of reading, and hearing about rubbish 24/7?

 

[Beerfish]

If EFC scandal fatigue is a real thing, then the AFL needs to start threatening the accreditation of those trolls who keep it in the pages every second day.

For the good of the game of course.

Geez that read like one of Purple's sliding doors ditties..

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Purely semantics Ben.

Are you suggesting that if he didn't resign that he would still currently be in a position at EFC??

That's not my point at all. I asked yaco whether anyone had been sacked over this since Feb 4, 2013. I'm not sure how it's been so totally misconstrued. I'm not making a point over whether they should be there, whether they would have been sacked, anything else. I'm just saying there hasn't been a "wave of sackings" or whatever the original phrase was.

 

[kfc1]

But if you are just sick of hearing about the game (ill put my hand up here i dont pay attention with any other teams, havnt been to a single neutral game this year) why would you fork out money as Rines said when you can sit at home and turn it off when the game got boring?

I can definitely relate to this. Used to watch a few other games most weeks and the default when at home on a weekend was to turn on a game in the background. Used to watch AFL 360 most nights. Used to watch FSN every morning over brekkie to catch up on the news. Now? I watch Essendon games and that's it. Don't give a * about any other part of the league, couldn't even tell you who is on top of the ladder.

 

[rines]

It's seemed to me for a long time that we've gone from a situation where the AFL / VFL existed solely to enable footy clubs to play football, to a situation where the footy clubs exist just to enable the AFL to make money.

The AFL's gone from being the administrator / coordinator of the game to thinking that it 'owns' football, and everyone else works for it.

Too true. Perfect summation.. it has become AFL.. not Aussie Rules footy played in the AFL competition...

Another reason why it has sucked the life out of grassroots footy and there are very few thriving comps outside of AFL..

I tried to use your exact argument with a friend in NSW.. it would be like saying that NRL is the ONLY place to play Rugby League.. rather than understanding the NRL is just one comp that plays that style of game..

I couldn't agree with your post more. Sums up the entire problem with the AFL machine.

 

[Dave]

Nah, our attendances are down in spite of Sunday nights. 33k against Footscray, 36k against St Kilda, 30k against Adelaide...all of those are disappointing.

Whilst the St Kilda and Doggies crowds were disappointing, the Adelaide one doesn't surprise me. First home game against them in 5 years and only the 4th since 2002, I reckon half our supporters were at the Adelaide Oval wondering where the * the match was!

 

[Dave]

Well, the AFL puts TV ahead of friendly attendance times - honestly what does anyone expect?

A 23 round season, and NINE Saturday arvo games at the 'G FFS..... As far as I'm concerned there should be a game at the 'G on Saturday arvo on MOST every weekends.

fixed.

 

[rines]

You could also look at What sells papers? Negativity, scandal this is ALL that is reported day in day out, Who will be sacked, who should be dropped, which team is falling. There is never anything positive, no focus on the good stories. we just so happen to have been apart of one of the biggest scandals ever. A large part of crowds over the years id say would be neutrals, with of course the usual die hard supporters going every week. But if you are just sick of hearing about the game (ill put my hand up here i dont pay attention with any other teams, havnt been to a single neutral game this year) why would you fork out money as Rines said when you can sit at home and turn it off when the game got boring?

Id actually love to see the ratings when compared to other years, are attendances down but viewers up as people decide to stay down? Or are numbers down all round because put quite simply, people are sick of reading, and hearing about rubbish 24/7?

I do think there may be 'footy fatigue' in general.. of which the EFC saga is a part..

Primarily being that we now have an entire industry that is writing, talking about AFL all day every day.. it does get overwhelming at times.. plus there is no 'off season' as we have the trade, draft, pre-season etc etc.. so you get no respite from it ever.

We now have more media 'experts' than actual stars of the game.. everytime you open the newspaper or turn on the radio.. or watch TV.. you get another 'opinion' about something. I mean ffs.. 42 articles, 39876 words written to interpret a 1 minute 32 second "interview" as a man walked from a car to his front door and said.. wait for it.. 62 words... the whole thing is insane.

The sideshow has taken over and I blame the AFL and the media for it. It actually becomes hard to find the actual scores and results of games.. without being bombarded with injury news, some irrelevant 'incident' on the field.. sponsors messages.. betting ad's.. detailed game plan analysis done from someone who doesn't appear to have actually watched the game.. a close up interview with a player about his dog.. another sponsors message... and so on and so forth.

It has almost reached a point where there is too much footy on live.. too much coverage.. too much of a good thing is not good.

 

[Kong]

ASADA haven't jumped the shark with Cronulla.

I see what you did there.

 

[kfc1]

I do think there may be 'footy fatigue' in general.. of which the EFC saga is a part..

Primarily being that we now have an entire industry that is writing, talking about AFL all day every day.. it does get overwhelming at times.. plus there is no 'off season' as we have the trade, draft, pre-season etc etc.. so you get no respite from it ever.

We now have more media 'experts' than actual stars of the game.. everytime you open the newspaper or turn on the radio.. or watch TV.. you get another 'opinion' about something. I mean ffs.. 42 articles, 39876 words written to interpret a 1 minute 32 second "interview" as a man walked from a car to his front door and said.. wait for it.. 62 words... the whole thing is insane.

The sideshow has taken over and I blame the AFL and the media for it. It actually becomes hard to find the actual scores and results of games.. without being bombarded with injury news, some irrelevant 'incident' on the field.. sponsors messages.. betting ad's.. detailed game plan analysis done from someone who doesn't appear to have actually watched the game.. a close up interview with a player about his dog.. another sponsors message... and so on and so forth.

It has almost reached a point where there is too much footy on live.. too much coverage.. too much of a good thing is not good.

+ 1,000

 

[84859300]

That's not my point at all. I asked yaco whether anyone had been sacked over this since Feb 4, 2013. I'm not sure how it's been so totally misconstrued. I'm not making a point over whether they should be there, whether they would have been sacked, anything else. I'm just saying there hasn't been a "wave of sackings" or whatever the original phrase was.

I'm not taking any side here, but my impression is that the sackings/retirements have occurred directly related to the saga. In saying that, currently there has been no verdict either way.

If the verdict is found to be not guilty, then you could probably assume that the staff that have departed were seen to have been key players in overseeing the governance of the affair; with no more staff requiring to go unless the club addresses this otherwise.

I would suggest that if there is an element of guilt found, that there will be more blood letting, as it would be called for by the members themselves. So the potential is still there for the instance of a "wave of sackings" to occur - awaiting the outcome.

 

[Kong]

On a side note...probably not worth creating a thread over but the club has produced a code of conduct for members......

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Essendon/Club HQ/Members Code of Conduct.pdf

No mention of opposition supporters or members of the AFL media.

Interesting.

Sedat! grow a spine.

 

[cymarak]

I would suggest that if there is an element of guilt found, that there will be more blood letting, as it would be called for by the members themselves. So the potential is still there for the instance of a "wave of sackings" to occur - awaiting the outcome.

As far as I can see, and ignoring whatever may or may not be scrawled in crayon on the HTB, no-one's suggesting that any official at EFC - with the possible exception of Dank - is guilty of anything more than poor governance.

The club, Hird, et al have already been publicly and severely punished for poor governance.

So, whether all 34 players are suspended, no players are suspended, or we end up somewhere in the middle, what grounds would there be for additional punishments / sackings for officials ? Unless something unexpected turns up in the next few months, their 'crimes' are already on record, and they've already been punished for them.

 

[cymarak]

On a side note...probably not worth creating a thread over but the club has produced a code of conduct for members......

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Essendon/Club HQ/Members Code of Conduct.pdf

IMO, this is just something the club has created to use to help it kick out / discipline members who do 'the wrong thing' - I doubt they seriously expect having this code of conduct to change anyone's behaviour.

 

[Whispering_Jack]

IMO, this is just something the club has created to use to help it kick out / discipline members who do 'the wrong thing' - I doubt they seriously expect having this code of conduct to change anyone's behaviour.

I think it's related to the member who whose membership was cancelled earlier in the year. Some astute people noted there was no actual code of conduct for members but it was mentioned in our constitution.

 

[byronstjames]

It scares me that the AFL are blatantly spinning the reasons for their falling attendances in order that they don't have to do anything which might upset the status quo.

Have they learnt nothing?

Easy fixes :
Simple and transparent ticketing (duh)
Schedule the games for fans, not foxtel. The first thing that should be considered every week is a Saturday afternoon game in Melbourne. Preferably the G.
Fix the price of food at games so that people don't feel ripped off.
Have a true even comp. End COLA and other concessions for teams.

Hard fixes :
Fix the horrible umpiring.
Improve the corrupt and arrogant image of the AFL.