Opinion Our grand final drought breeds negativity

[PCORF]

Had our chances in 2005, 2006 and had another chance in 2012. Unfortunately you don't get these chances often. If you cannot win close games, cannot finish top 4. 2012 was an amazing season.

 

[AFC979810]

Had our chances in 2005, 2006 and had another chance in 2012. Unfortunately you don't get these chances often. If you cannot win close games, cannot finish top 4. 2012 was an amazing season.

Since we won the flag in 1997-1998 we have had plenty of chances.

We have been a genuine shot at a flag 4 times since we won our last flag. If you include this year as a wasted year (which it is) there have been 16 seasons since we went back to back. In those 16 seasons we have finished top 4 (and therefore a genuine flag threat) 4 times. An average of being a contender every 4 years - which I am happy with.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

New coach is not doing something different? New recruiting guy? New list manager? New CEO soon? .

Positions change at every club.

The mindset at Adelaide, particularly the fundamental belief that 'make the 8 and anything can happen' still exists. Everything we do stems from that belief. It is a low bar IMO.

Then there are the specifics like deep forward fifty entries, contested ball focus rather than skill level, selection of young players/ need to bottom out etc.

I wonder if one of Sando's selling points was that his ideals matched up closely with what the club held true? We found someone to carry on Neil's work.

 

[AFC979810]

Positions change at every club.

The mindset at Adelaide, particularly the fundamental belief that 'make the 8 and anything can happen' still exists. Everything we do stems from that belief. It is a low bar IMO.

Then there are the specifics like deep forward fifty entries, contested ball focus rather than skill level, selection of young players/ need to bottom out etc.

I wonder if one of Sando's selling points was that his ideals matched up closely with what the club held true? We found someone to carry on Neil's work.

Neil Craigs 2008 - 2011 still burning you up? One of these days you are going to have to get over it.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Neil Craigs 2008 - 2011 still burning you up? One of these days you are going to have to get over it.

I liked Craig. Defended him many times 06-08 on here when the tide was against him about match day moves, losing finals. It was only towards the end of 2010 that he lost me (the 4th time he dropped Walker the penny drop moment) that I wanted him gone. You're perhaps only aware of that last 12 months

No, this is about the prevailing club attitude of Make the 8 and anything can happen.

I've posted here before about whether the nature of thr 97/98 premierships were actually a bad thing for the club, given the 4th/5th finishes, coming from the clouds, never the best team just the best in September. This pre-dates Neil and has continued beyond him. He simply lived and breathed the attitude while he was here.

 

[Allefgib]

I liked Craig. Defended him many times 06-08 on here when the tide was against him about match day moves, losing finals. It was only towards the end of 2010 that he lost me (the 4th time he dropped Walker the penny drop moment) that I wanted him gone. You're perhaps only aware of that last 12 months

No, this is about the prevailing club attitude of Make the 8 and anything can happen.

I've posted here before about whether the nature of thr 97/98 premierships were actually a bad thing for the club, given the 4th/5th finishes, coming from the clouds, never the best team just the best in September. This pre-dates Neil and has continued beyond him. He simply lived and breathed the attitude while he was here.

Not before craigys time...

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Before he was calling the shots

 

[Allefgib]

Before he was calling the shots

Before he was tapering training programs, breaking down players in the pursuit of being fitter than opponents in sept?

 

[pjcrows]

Since we won the flag in 1997-1998 we have had plenty of chances.

We have been a genuine shot at a flag 4 times since we won our last flag. If you include this year as a wasted year (which it is) there have been 16 seasons since we went back to back. In those 16 seasons we have finished top 4 (and therefore a genuine flag threat) 4 times. An average of being a contender every 4 years - which I am happy with.

Top 4 every 4 years during that time, but not even a GF during that time.

Unacceptable.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Before he was tapering training programs, breaking down players in the pursuit of being fitter than opponents in sept?

Before he'd seen that you didn't need to finish top two to win it and that this mindset became the club mantra

 

[Cap]

So if we'd lost a GF in the last 16 years we'd all be happy?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So if we'd lost a GF in the last 16 years we'd all be happy?

I think it's more that the club is happy and doesn't see making a grand final or winning one as anything above what we've been trying to do previously.

The last time we actually put all our eggs in a premiership basket was Ayres with Carey. This is very much out of step with our usual approach. It didn't work then and we've learned our lesson.

 

[Sanders]

The weird thing is we seem to exist to make finals much more than win flags.

Fine. Surely that's not difficult though? Trade picks, top up. Selection policy.

How come we seem to be neither hear nor there. If that's our plan can we at least go hard at it?

 

[SugarShane]

Please tell me that after a few more years of this we won't start acting like Richmond fans.

 

[relapse]

So if we'd lost a GF in the last 16 years we'd all be happy?

While it's nowhere near the same level of success as a premiership, it would be a step further that we've been unable to take since 1998. Our finals record since 1998 of 6 wins from 16 finals speaks for itself as to why people are frustrated. People are wanting this club to actually prove that the bar is set higher than just making the finals every year.

 

[Iron]

the last two clubs that have gotten the wooden spoon and since gone on to win a premiership are Collingwood in 1999 and Brisbane in 1998.

Even more interestingly, the last team to win a wooden spoon and make a grand final was Fremantle in 2001. The last team to make a preliminary final after winning a wooden spoon was the Bulldogs in 2003.

"Winning" it doesn't seem to bring that much at all. It's possible that this is due to recent history being written by incompetent teams like Carlton, Richmond and Melbourne, however.

EDIT: Hey look at that, West Coast proves me wrong on the Prelim count in 2011. That'd compromise my point so forget about them

 

[splat868]

I wonder where we would be today if we could have kept the team together.

The expansion clubs hammered us, then we had defectors just wanting out.

I know our draft positions would be different, and so our recruiting and development would have been different as well.

But the possibility of having Walker, Tippett, and Gunston as our three main forwards is salivating.

Then having Davis with Talia in the backline.

We may have been a chance to jag one.

Learning to keep the players we want would be a good start on building success.

 

[Iron]

Had our chances in 2005, 2006 and had another chance in 2012. Unfortunately you don't get these chances often. If you cannot win close games, cannot finish top 4. 2012 was an amazing season.

It's strange, but I personally look back on 05, 06, 09 and 12 as some of my fondest memories of this club - aside from 97/98 of course.

That satisfied feeling is a bit pervasive. Surely I should look back on them with frustration at being so close?

 

[Bacon8]

Like Hawks, St Kilda, Collingwood and Freo.

But, Melbourne have even played in a GF since we have.

Collingwood won 1 flag in 51 years (1959 - 2009). They had 8 GF appearances for 0 wins in the 60's/70's.
Hawthorn went 17 years between 1991 & 2008 without a GF appearance.
Sydney went from 1933 to 2005 without a flag. And 1945 to 1996 without a GF appearance.


While it's not nice to be 16 years since a GF appearance, we aren't alone over history.

 

[MarcusP2]

The 06 season was fantastic until the last 20 minutes. Same with the 12 season.

But those last 20 minutes are all I remember.

I mean, I'd love a flag, but I don't think I'd ever stop supporting the club. I imagine the majority of supporters are like that. So perhaps that's what feeds the club's mentality. Hardcore fans that are dying for a flag don't make up the majority of the membership or support.

 

[Bacon8]

Kangaroos went 51 years from joining the league, to winning a premiership (and 25 years before a GF). At least we didn't suffer that pain.
Hawthorn went 37 years without a GF appearance (getting their first flag at the first attempt).

It took Fremantle 19 years to make a GF.
St Kilda was in their first GF for 26 years when they lost to us in 97.

 

[Smoooothy]

Collingwood won 1 flag in 51 years (1959 - 2009). They had 8 GF appearances for 0 wins in the 60's/70's.
Hawthorn went 17 years between 1991 & 2008 without a GF appearance.
Sydney went from 1933 to 2005 without a flag. And 1945 to 1996 without a GF appearance.


While it's not nice to be 16 years since a GF appearance, we aren't alone over history.

we aren't you are right.

however, in the age of the draft etc, that is a very long drought.

has anyone got the stats for prelims played in and won since 1990?

 

[Bacon8]

has anyone got the stats for prelims played in and won since 1990?

Give me 5

 

[Smoooothy]

Give me 5

good man

 

[Bacon8]

good man

Since the change to a Top 8 for the 1994 season (easier to keep the same parameters, I have the final 4 teams for 1990-1993 if you want them):

There has been 20 seasons (21 Grand Finals)

The amount of Prelim Finals played by teams are as follows (Prelims, Flags)

Geelong 9 3
North Melbourne 8 2
Collingwood 7 1
Brisbane 6 3
Sydney 6 2
Adelaide 6 2
St Kilda 6 0
Hawthorn 5 2
Western Bulldogs 5 0
West Coast 4 2
Port Adelaide 4 1
Essendon 4 1
Carlton 3 1
Melbourne 3 0
Fremantle 2 0
Richmond 2 0

So we are equal 5th best performed preliminary final makers in the Top 8 era.