Do Fitzroy deserve a VFL team

[fumbler]

I personally hope to see Melbourne get a stand-alone side. Clubs like Geelong and even Collingwood (with the exception of this year) do so much better with stand-alone sides because they have so much more control over the development of their fringe players. Hence when someone like a Jimmy Bartel gets injured a Billie Smedts can step in knowing his role in the midfield.

I would much rather the AFL fund us a stand-alone team than give us a priority pick which we will most likely mess up anyway.

University certainly don't deserve one, but I want to see one in there to try and emulate footy of the old Austro-Hungarian, Russian and Ottoman empire days ha ha.

I don't think the AFL should fund Melbourne at all, or any other side if it's not willing to re-establish a side it ripped a part previously.

Live by the sword...........die by the sword.


The VFL should return to the old VFL areas

Basically they pick players from their zones and if they go over the Salary Cap then the unpicked players can join a team out of their zone.

The tribal vibe that was in the old VFA and VFL has long gone and they need to bring in something that will prop it up again.

 

[Dr Mephesto]

I don't think the AFL should fund Melbourne at all, or any other side if it's not willing to re-establish a side it ripped a part previously.

Live by the sword...........die by the sword.


The VFL should return to the old VFL areas

Basically they pick players from their zones and if they go over the Salary Cap then the unpicked players can join a team out of their zone.

The tribal vibe that was in the old VFA and VFL has long gone and they need to bring in something that will prop it up again.

Nah stuff morals... I want to see the AFL fix up the nuclear destruction the caused by the Paul Gardiner and Cameron Schwab era of the club. It's not like the current management board (ie. Peter Jackson and co.) asking for all the handouts ripped the club to pieces. They are just asking for the AFL's help to fix up the incredible incompetency that stood before them otherwise we will never recover. However I get what you're saying and on a team scale we don't deserve funding/priority picks for the bed we made.

Also zoning in the VFL would be an amazing idea. It will not only get the VFL in the retro jist of things but it could re-build regional support/interest for the respective VFL teams no one seems to care about anymore.

 

[killer]

NFL??
Vermont??
is that that game with angry big dark guys in space helmets

 

[Mobbs]

NFL??
Vermont??
is that that game with angry big dark guys in space helmets

renamed old Diamond Valley FL, killer, lol you card

 

[Heardy_101]

More chance of Fitzroy in the VFL than University.

I know University still have a team in one of the Amatuer leagues, how well are they going?

 

[Mobbs]

More chance of Fitzroy in the VFL than University.

I know University still have a team in one of the Amatuer leagues, how well are they going?

University have three teams in the VAFA - Blacks, Blues and Reds. The Reds merged into the current Fitzroy presence there.

 

[aussielondon]

I watched the last match Fitzroy ever had in 1996 on youtube the other day, and I felt sad that they ever were forced to leave the league (merging with a non vic club isn't really a proper merger) and they should have been allowed to exist in 17 team AFL competition when my club entered in 1997. They allowed an odd number of teams (and thus having the bye worked into the schedule) when Gold Coast joined, so why not when we (Port) joined?

I think what the VFL/AFL did to Fitzroy was unfair.

 

[Heardy_101]

At the same time Fitzroy had the chance to go to Brisbane on their terms in their own right before the Bears came along.

 

[aussielondon]

I really hate what the AFL did though, I mean why couldn't Fitzroy stay?
Look at the NBA or American leagues that have 30 teams or more... there really isn't a limit to the number of teams, so there was no reason to kick Fitzroy out.

 

[Heardy_101]

They didn't really kick them out, more of a forced merger. At the same time, as I said, Fitzroy had several opportunities to be the Brisbane Lions in their own right, as well as being the second Sydney team.

Melbourne is still too bloody crowded, and I can still see another merger in the future eg Melbourne and GWS or Melbourne and North.

 

[Roylion]

They didn't really kick them out, more of a forced merger.

There was no merger. Fitzroy were removed from the AFL competition. All that happened was that the Brisbane Bears rebranded themselves as the Brisbane Lions.

At the same time, as I said, Fitzroy had several opportunities to be the Brisbane Lions in their own right, as well as being the second Sydney team.

They had one opportunity, but their preference was to stay in Melbourne as a stand alone entity or seek an equitable merger with another Melbourne based club. Melbourne (1986, 1994), Footscray (1989) and North Melbourne (1996) were the serious candidates for a merger.

Melbourne is still too bloody crowded, and I can still see another merger in the future eg Melbourne and GWS or Melbourne and North.

There will never be a 'merger' of a Melbourne based club and a non-Victorian club. Supporters of a Melbourne based club can see their future writ large in what happened to Fitzroy supporters of the Brisbane Lions. 5 games in Melbourne, the Fitzroy identity diluted in the name of marketing and so on.

 

[Roylion]

I know University still have a team in one of the Amatuer leagues, how well are they going?

VAFA Premier team.

 

[Last of the Roys]

They didn't really kick them out, more of a forced merger. At the same time, as I said, Fitzroy had several opportunities to be the Brisbane Lions in their own right, as well as being the second Sydney team.

Melbourne is still too bloody crowded, and I can still see another merger in the future eg Melbourne and GWS or Melbourne and North.

You have to remember Fitzroy had a mini golden era on the field from 1979-1986, even if our finances weren't in great shape due to player purchases and the lack of a real home. We made the finals in 1979 (4th after home and away matches), 1981 (5th), 1983 (3rd), 1984 (5th) and 1986 (4th, and ended up making the preliminary final after two finals wins).

It is all well and good with the benefit of hindsight to say Fitzroy should have gone to Brisbane (end of 86) or Sydney (early '80's) in our own right - but any Board that tried to do that at the time would have been hung, drawn and quartered (hence the back-down at the end of 1986). Obviously no one knew at the time that 1986 would be our last ever final series.

As for the Sydney situation, South just happened to be in a worst position financially than Fitzroy when the push come for them to go to Sydney, that is why that happened to them instead of Fitzroy in the end (South played in just 2 finals between 1946 and 1981 (36 seasons) before going to Sydney; over the same period Fitzroy played in 11 finals / 6 finals series, including in both 1979 and 1981 - our record was hardly great, but it wasn't as bad as the Swans).

Also, when it did become apparent that something drastic really needed to be done to save Fitzroy, the AFL basically blocked all of our attempts to expand into Tasmania or Canberra in the '90's. Although I personally believe Fitzroy's Board could have done more to get a better outcome for the Club in the '90's (such as by making clear to the members that it was now impossible to avoid a merger / relocation and by being pro-active / open about it before it was too late), it is clear the AFL went out of its way at every opportunity to turn the screws on us to kill us off.

 

[NorthernLights]

Melbourne is still too bloody crowded, and I can still see another merger in the future eg Melbourne and GWS or Melbourne and North.

Melbourne is crowded with 100 year old traditional clubs though. You cant just merge/kick them out. The Melbourne clubs laid the foundation for the national comp, and their history should be preserved.

It beggars belief how you could be sympathetic and sad about the loss of Fitzroy and wish the same fate on other clubs in the same breath.

 

[Heardy_101]

Melbourne is crowded with 100 year old traditional clubs though. You cant just merge/kick them out. The Melbourne clubs laid the foundation for the national comp, and their history should be preserved.

It beggars belief how you could be sympathetic and sad about the loss of Fitzroy and wish the same fate on other clubs in the same breath.

Bit of a differences. Most of Fitzroy's VFL/AFL heritage was lost, and the once professional Football Club with a Senior VFL/AFL side now plays in an Amateur League. Bit like how the North Sydney, Western Suburbs, Balmain and Newtown are now in the NSW Cup (Rugby League) when it was only 10-20 years ago they were at top level Rugby League (NSWRL/ARL/SL/NRL). Chalk and cheese however.....

If two Melbourne-based clubs merged, and stayed in Melbourne as opposed to going inter or intrastate, the history and heritage is more preserved by staying in Melbourne than merging with GWS or Gold Coast for example.

I'm not advocating for mergers per se, I just think it's inevitable.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Pardon me interupting on the Roys thread. But I think it would be a bloody fantastic idea.
With Fitzroy getting merged and then the AFL bringing in all the franchise clubs its the least the AFL could do.
Tip in a bit of cash to help Fitzroy set up in the VFL.
Being a Saints man and seeing the Saints teeter on the brink in the 80s. I know if i had the choice of having to follow another team in the AFL or follow MY team in the VFL . Id be happier with the VFL side.
Its great to see the Roys still have a presence in the VAFA. You guys are true supporters.
Its awesome that you guys still have a big footy thread.
Respect

 

[Northworth]

Fitzroy in the VFL should happen. And if the AFL had a conscience they should put a few million towards it.

 

[cammo78]

Bit of a differences. Most of Fitzroy's VFL/AFL heritage was lost, and the once professional Football Club with a Senior VFL/AFL side now plays in an Amateur League. Bit like how the North Sydney, Western Suburbs, Balmain and Newtown are now in the NSW Cup (Rugby League) when it was only 10-20 years ago they were at top level Rugby League (NSWRL/ARL/SL/NRL). Chalk and cheese however.....

If two Melbourne-based clubs merged, and stayed in Melbourne as opposed to going inter or intrastate, the history and heritage is more preserved by staying in Melbourne than merging with GWS or Gold Coast for example.

I'm not advocating for mergers per se, I just think it's inevitable.

Ask Western Suburbs Magpies, North Sydney Bears or Illawarra Steelers fans just how much "history and heritage is more preserved by staying in Melbourne (Sydney)..."

 

[killer]

its like a listening to a bunch of cannibals
arguing over your bones

 

[Viceregal]

I think what the VFL/AFL did to Fitzroy was unfair.

I believe the word you are after there is criminal.

 

[Scribe]

Romantic notion? YES
A realistic chance of ever happening? NUP

Why? The gap between what is required to run a VFL club and where the current FFC sit (in Premier B) is vast, enormous, massive, and basically unbridgeable.

I played/coached at FFC from 2007-2010 in VAFA Premier C/Division 1, and now I'm coaching at Coburg in VFL seniors. Whilst no doubt in the past 5 years a few things have continued to improve with the FFC operations, I can tell you from first hand experience right now, VFL footy is light years ahead of VAFA Premier, let alone Premier B, in pretty much every facet of playing, coaching, administration, etc.

The likelihood of player wishing to play for FFC in the VFL for romantic reasons is basically NIL. These kids are playing VFL to play the highest standard possible and hopefully get a chance at the big time. Coburg's the equal lowest turnover VFL club (Frankston is on a par I believe), and it's turnover is still 6 times that of Fitzroy. Sponsor's aren't interested in romantic notions of yester year either, they want networking and promotion, and frankly FFC's relevance as an elite football team was destroyed in 1996. What the FFC do now in the VAFA is great, I loved the place and went back to watch a practice match only 4 weeks ago. They can, and will, focus on being the best amateur football club in the state, and I think that will take them another 10 to 20 years. The idea of "promoting" a suburban club into a state competition is fanciful to start with, but if in the unlikely event it were to occur, it would be a club which has the capacity to generate serious funds to pay players over $350K, which is what the top clubs in the suburban leagues find themselves having to do to compete for a flag. Thankfully in the Ammos, you don't have to do that.

The Lions have a huge battle on their hands retaining relevance in Qld alone, so forget them pouring time/effort into Melbourne based supporters for whom the 1996 disgrace is becoming a smaller and smaller sore to salve as the years pass. The AFL clearly has no interest in it either.

So I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the chance of this happening are absolutely NIL.

 

[Mobbs]

 

[Collingwoodity]

There was no merger. Fitzroy were removed from the AFL competition. All that happened was that the Brisbane Bears rebranded themselves as the Brisbane Lions.

Is this reflected officially or it is just your opinion?

 

[Roylion]

Is this reflected officially or it is just your opinion?

Read the Deed of Arrangement (reproduced in full on the Fitzroy board) check with ASIC and look at what Associate Justice Nemeer Mukhtar had to say about the merger in 2009 when Fitzroy and Brisbane took the matter to the Supreme Court of Victoria.

I'm also a shareholder of the Fitzroy Football Club and have been since 1986. I'm still a shareholder of the very same club. I'm not a shareholder of the Brisbane Lions.

Fitzroy lost their AFL licence in 1996 and Brisbane Bears rebranded. The Brisbane Lions were formed in 1987.

 

[killer]

We're a Football club, not a rebranded brand.