Review AFL Round 22 autopsy - Hawthorn defeats Geelong by 23 points

[SleazySimon]

Thought Varcoe was solid, but am I the only one who thinks his disposal was poor? Then again so was everyone elses

 

[Teriyakicat]

Thought Varcoe was solid, but am I the only one who thinks his disposal was poor? Then again so was everyone elses

80%
Check your prescription, please..

 

[Stig_90]

Your interpretation?
CS certainly did not sound happy, more defensive.
AC was happier with the 2nd/2.

Well Scott said it was a step forward in our preparation and Clarkson said the Hawks would need to improve for finals.

 

[romeoh]

Well Scott said it was a step forward in our preparation and Clarkson said the Hawks would need to improve for finals.

Well it was a step forward in that we completely outplayed them for a half of football.
Then it was a pretty serious step backwards. Or leap.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I reckon Dawson's doggy will be getting him drinks etc seen a vid on cats tv while back .

Aha! So THAT'S why he trained him?

 

[thegerman]

"Fitness is not our strong suit" - and yet we've got over the line in almost every close game this season.

you say yourself Varcoe is 'struggling' - but he plays every week. Why should he treated differently to guys that perform consistently? I said he had a 'better' game. But that does not change my overall view on him. That's not me being negative, that's my cumulative view formed over many years of watching him as a Geelong supporter.

There's no inconsistency in what I'm saying.

Oh but there is. You say that I'm negative, yet also point out that you dislike Varcoe.

He had one of his best games this year, but you still can't give him credit.

Your distaste for him, flows through to your argument. Yet I'm negative? For what? In game vs Sydney where not one player stood up?

Yes we are in a good position, had some wins, but let's not just sit idle and say how great we are. Our deficiencies are our fitness, being overrun in nearly all second halves this year.


But hey, keep your head in the clouds and keep hating Varcoe just because can

 

[Crankyhawk]

Weird game, I'd love to say we put the cue in the rack at half time but that is too disrespectful to the Hawks.
More accurate is we did what we have done all year and stopped at half time, difference is the Hawks are a good team and made us pay.

I can't remember a game where less players got near it or didn't have an impact in the 2nd half

Sorry for the intrusion but I wanted to seek Cats fans opinions on this

I noted that in the first half your team was running a hell of a lot harder to the ball and always seemed to have numbers at the drop of the ball. This pretty much stopped in the second half - except for a 5 minute patch in the final quarter which is when you kicked back to back goals. Does this mean that you actually had the capacity to keep that hard running game going for 4 quarters and just chose not to employ it (presumably so we get less opportunity to counter in next time)? Or is this a usual pattern (I haven't seen many geelong games on tv this year).

Will be nervous next time we meet (side effect of the last 5 years of hawk - cats games)

 

[Crankyhawk]

And Hawks got their act together. Their 2Q was woeful.

If we'd won today Hawks supporters would be saying same thing

Probably would have been harder to believe, given what Clarkson had said about not planning to hide anything. While I think chris scott did say that he would be keeping some tricks back.

 

[Baudolino]

Sorry for the intrusion but I wanted to seek Cats fans opinions on this

I noted that in the first half your team was running a hell of a lot harder to the ball and always seemed to have numbers at the drop of the ball. This pretty much stopped in the second half - except for a 5 minute patch in the final quarter which is when you kicked back to back goals. Does this mean that you actually had the capacity to keep that hard running game going for 4 quarters and just chose not to employ it (presumably so we get less opportunity to counter in next time)? Or is this a usual pattern (I haven't seen many geelong games on tv this year).

The latter. We were experimenting a bit in the second half - I noticed a few weird match ups and positional moves - but the second half fade-outs have been happening literally all year.

 

[manboob]

I noted that in the first half your team was running a hell of a lot harder to the ball and always seemed to have numbers at the drop of the ball. This pretty much stopped in the second half - except for a 5 minute patch in the final quarter which is when you kicked back to back goals. Does this mean that you actually had the capacity to keep that hard running game going for 4 quarters and just chose not to employ it (presumably so we get less opportunity to counter in next time)? Or is this a usual pattern (I haven't seen many geelong games on tv this year).

I think it's a little of both. We tend to get ourselves into winning positions early in games and then just do enough to coast to the finish line. In the first half we played in a style that I haven't seen for almost 7 years and it seemed to work really well, a couple of those running goals just had you own your knees with no answer. Cue half-time. Then came the change, either we stopped or you started, probably somewhere in the middle. Both teams employed different styles of play in the second half and you came out on top. Don't know if that really answered your question

In someone ways this game has left me more confused and with more questions about both sides really. But given the s**t that passes for football these days I'm glad when the Hawks Cats games come around. So good!

 

[Pack Specialist]

Sorry for the intrusion but I wanted to seek Cats fans opinions on this

I noted that in the first half your team was running a hell of a lot harder to the ball and always seemed to have numbers at the drop of the ball. This pretty much stopped in the second half - except for a 5 minute patch in the final quarter which is when you kicked back to back goals. Does this mean that you actually had the capacity to keep that hard running game going for 4 quarters and just chose not to employ it (presumably so we get less opportunity to counter in next time)? Or is this a usual pattern (I haven't seen many geelong games on tv this year).

Will be nervous next time we meet (side effect of the last 5 years of hawk - cats games)

Even the most ardent of Geelong fans will admit that we go missing for stages, our best is breathtaking but our worst is Melbourne.

You guys deserved it and we will know the real answer to your question in 2 weeks.

 

[Moneypenny]

Reading through this board (woo great Saturday night!) i'm not sure where the team is at - do we judge them against the age demographic? Games spread? The input of the veterans divided by the input of the kittens? I think this year and next are a crossroads and soon enough the handover will be done and dusted. This is not the exalted Hall of Fame side of yesteryear and so I don't judge them as such. But I do expect effort. Is 16-5 better or worse than we should expect? Or is the vibe more the issue? I concentrate on what looks promising for the future and prospects of success down the line because I don't know how to judge them right now. As long I leave the game knowing everyone did everything in their power to play well I'm happy.

Looking at the game in context of the season, I started this year with the plan to concentrate on what the cats could do rather than what they can't do. Safe to say this year has been rather enjoyable it might mean I rate their games higher than I should, undervalue what the team could achieve if I set higher standards of expectation or I tend to be overly optimistic about things but eh, they're ma boys, what are you gonna do?

 

[Play it Sam]

What have I said that has made me a bad supporter? The fact that I was disppointed in HMacs efforts tonight? Their rucks ran rings around us in general play.

ANyways, I have bought memberships for 10 years despite living interstate and getting to about 3 games in that time (did get the 07 GF though, good times)! Would really like to know how I am a bad supporter!

Do you often nickname people with fecal related puns?

It's really difficult to see the tear on your avatar. If you still think it's suitable, which is now debatable, why don't you recolour it white for clarity?
We were pretty much on watch for any smartarse hawkers, so I for one went the gun, mostly because I misinterpreted your avatar, thought you were trolling in combination with the player slagging post. Which now I am willing to admit you could've been right. Apologies.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Sorry for the intrusion but I wanted to seek Cats fans opinions on this

I noted that in the first half your team was running a hell of a lot harder to the ball and always seemed to have numbers at the drop of the ball. This pretty much stopped in the second half - except for a 5 minute patch in the final quarter which is when you kicked back to back goals. Does this mean that you actually had the capacity to keep that hard running game going for 4 quarters and just chose not to employ it (presumably so we get less opportunity to counter in next time)? Or is this a usual pattern (I haven't seen many geelong games on tv this year).

Will be nervous next time we meet (side effect of the last 5 years of hawk - cats games)

We've lost most of our 3rd quarters this year and have a tendency to go missing in big patches in games.
If Scotty's hiding something, we sure don't know what it is but I hope to hell he's got an ace or two up his sleeve...

The only thing I can think of is that someone's spiking their half time drinks

 

[Pure_Ownage]

yes the midfield , well all went rather down hill in the second half but his impact across the ground is almost ...meh. We desperately need more from our big guys , considering most of them are experienced they should give more.

But yes , for what ever reason we seemed to run out of steam.

It's fitness. Look McIntosh has been really good for us this year in patches, back to some of his best footy and we'd be stuffed without him given our lack of ruck stocks. But it's noticeable he can't ruck high minutes in second halves and it means we have to ruck Blitz more than we would like to, which blunts what he offers elsewhere.

I think fitness is the main issue across the whole team. It's a combination of two things, firstly we don't have enough players in the Hawkins/Selwood age bracket, this is the age where you get players at their optimum fitness level (not Hawk himself given his back issues, but that 24-26 age is what I'm talking about), we have a combination of a lot of older and younger players, both who are prone to running out of legs. And some of our key players have had injured yeas-Hamish is fit but off 3 years of no footy he lacks gas, Hartman was gone after 1/2 time, Thurlow similar, ideally we want Motlop in the middle for long periods to rectify our one paced issues but he isn't fit enough for it. Bundy and Caddy are the two who are crucial because they have the ball wining ability but the dynamic speed to create space and I thought it was no coincidence that when both were very good in the first half, we were good. But again they tire and can't do 4 quarters of it.

I have seen some good things lately, how we have played tactically against Freo and Hawthorn in the first halves, maintaining posession, shows our coach is back to some of his best work of the last 3 years tactically, and is how you beat them because they set up from their loose defenders, so you don't kick at them and you own the footy. The problem is this style is only effective while your players are fit, in the first half when we had run we had 6-8 guys running in chains, getting separation on opponents which enabled us to control the ball. They tire, and then we are forced to start bombing in because there is no one creating separation, and we concede goals the othe way from it. While I'm well aware we were experimenting in the second half (we didn't even go close to using all our interchanges, and we didn't throw our experienced guys like Kelly and Stokes in the midfield in the last quarter, which we would do in a final) this has been an issue all year and it explains the struggling in second halves and bombing in long towards the end of games when we rarely do it in the first half.

Personnel change will help somewhat, Brown or Walker in for Kersten (both are much fitter than him) and SJ in for a kid like Hartman, but I am not sure that is enough. I am not nearly as pessimistic as most of the board, I don't see standout team this year like I have in years gone by, and I firmly believe our best football is good enough to win the flag (and even after tonight I still think that). The issue is we will have to do it for 4 quarters over 3 finals, as 30 minute lapses are the end of a year in finals, and I don't think we have the fitness to do it for whole games.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Personnel change will help somewhat, Brown or Walker in for Kersten (both are much fitter than him) and SJ in for a kid like Hartman, but I am not sure that is enough. I am not nearly as pessimistic as most of the board, I don't see standout team this year like I have in years gone by, and I firmly believe our best football is good enough to win the flag (and even after tonight I still think that). The issue is we will have to do it for 4 quarters over 3 finals, as 30 minute lapses are the end of a year in finals, and I don't think we have the fitness to do it for whole games.

On Hartman, I was unable to read the game day thread due to being at the game so if it's been mentioned forgive me.

Radio I was listening to mentioned he was sitting back row of the interchange in the last quarter with ice on his leg (can't remember where on the leg they said), has anyone else heard this? Precaution?

 

[manboob]

I think fitness is the main issue across the whole team. It's a combination of two things, firstly we don't have enough players in the Hawkins/Selwood age bracket, this is the age where you get players at their optimum fitness level (not Hawk himself given his back issues, but that 24-26 age is what I'm talking about), we have a combination of a lot of older and younger players, both who are prone to running out of legs.

This is why I'm a big fan of FA and how it can help us over the next couple of years. If we manage to snag Danger and Frawley it will go a long way.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Weird game, I'd love to say we put the cue in the rack at half time but that is too disrespectful to the Hawks.
More accurate is we did what we have done all year and stopped at half time, difference is the Hawks are a good team and made us pay.

This. Anyone thinking otherwise or this loss happened because 'we didn't care' is dead set ####ing deluded.

Scott feels positive about the night? What the ****?

Coach included.

We were horrifically out worked and exposed in the usual areas big time in the 3rd quarter. Yes they were under the pump (Hmac and midfield looking at you AS USUAL!!) but the response from our extremely experienced defense in that 3rd quarter was absolutely and utterly disgraceful. Mackie, Lonergan, Enright, Rivers (out played by Ceglar, really Jarred??) and HMac when down there. Taylor also gave Rough miles too much space. All need to have a bit of a think about that effort.

Can't believe the nonsense on here about TV playing well either. So he joined in the hot potato bull s**t enough to get 25 touches? SO WHAT? Defensively he was soft and gave his opponent way too much space and at other times drifted about like the usual headless chook. I was there an watching him - he had stuff all impact.

 

[SuperCats9]

God please let us beat the hawks in the finals, if we do play them which we should.

Would love nothing more and we'd get to say "we win when it matters".

I'm trying to remain positive about our chances, I know we CAN beat the hawks.

 

[SuperCats9]

This. Anyone thinking otherwise or this loss happened because we didn't care is dead set ####ing deluded.



Coach included.

I can't believe what scott said, he can't be happy with that surely? And behind closed doors would be ripping into them.

How a team can go from playing top notch footy to bottom 4 s**t is mind boggling, but we've done it all year and the good sides have belted us for it, nothing will change come finals.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

This is why I'm a big fan of FA and how it can help us over the next couple of years. If we manage to snag Danger and Frawley it will go a long way.

I agree with that, and it's something I would look to do also.

Doesn't help this year though, I feel like we will get to a prelim but not quite make it all the way.

 

[David the Cat]

What a silly concept!

A ridiculous concept…..but hey, when your clutching at straws when looking to criticize your favorite scapegoat, why not?

 

[Munich]

We did stop at half time and it bit us on the butt.

We will not do that in 2 weeks time.

Have some faith fellow Catters, we're not going to let the filth beat us in another final.

 

[The Casey Cat]

I feel like we will get to a prelim but not quite make it all the way.

Won't be 'not quite' sort of loss it will be against Sydney, Freo or Port and we will be utterly savaged. Only good thing is as 2nd v 3rd loser we will be playing the 6th v 7th winner and most likely avoid the embarrassment of straight sets. Sure as hell won't beat Port/Freo or a hot Tigers. No way.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Won't be 'not quite' sort of loss it will be against Sydney, Freo or Port and we will be utterly savaged. Only good thing is as 2nd v 3rd loser we will be playing the 6th v 7th winner and most likely avoid the embarrassment of straight sets. Sure as hell won't beat Port/Freo or a hot Tigers. No way.

We would beat Port (in Melbourne) in a close one and Tigers easily.

Freo I agree with you about, need to avoid them.