- Moderator
- #26
Argument could be made about pretty much any club.
ESSENDON is the most popular club in the AFL after it was revealed the Bombers sell the most replica
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Argument could be made about pretty much any club.
Well if you look at social media Facebook likes, twitter also membership numbers and attendances Collingwood are no.1 in Australia.
So I think just selling guernseys is not a true measure of support taken from only one store which does not include merchandise sales from the club stores, afl stores and k-mart.
Also does not include scarf and hat sales. Anyway pies are still no.1 followed by Essendon, west coast and Adelaide.
So I think just selling guernseys is not a true measure of support taken from only one store which does not include merchandise sales from the club stores, afl stores and k-mart.
Also does not include scarf and hat sales. Anyway pies are still no.1 followed by Essendon, west coast and Adelaide.
Well if you look at social media Facebook likes, twitter also membership numbers and attendances Collingwood are no.1 in Australia.
So I think just selling guernseys is not a true measure of support taken from only one store which does not include merchandise sales from the club stores, afl stores and k-mart.
Also does not include scarf and hat sales. Anyway pies are still no.1 followed by Essendon, west coast and Adelaide.
So I think just selling guernseys is not a true measure of support taken from only one store which does not include merchandise sales from the club stores, afl stores and k-mart.
Also does not include scarf and hat sales. Anyway pies are still no.1 followed by Essendon, west coast and Adelaide.
- Moderator
- #29
Not borne out by Annual report figures from last year. Collingwood didnt report Merchandise so no one really knows
- Hawthorn – 3.7 million, up from 3.1 million
- Essendon – 3.24 million, up from 3.22 million
- Fremantle – 2.9 million, up from 1.6 million
- West Coast – 2.3 million, down from 3.1 million
- Carlton – 1.8 million, down from 1.9 million
- Geelong – 1.8 million, down from 2.7 million
- Adelaide – 1.37 million,
- Brisbane – 1.24 million, up from 1.0 million
- St Kilda – 1.23 million, down from 1.46 million
- North Melbourne – 1.21 million, down from 1.39 million
- Western Bulldogs – $884,000, down from 1.2 million
- Melbourne – 723,068, up from 634,384
Slightly off topic but based on the following criteria...
- Collingwood 308011 (Facebook), 64700 (Twitter), 79273 (Membership), 1,048,235 (home/away)
- Essendon 295112 (Facebook), 63500 (Twitter), 60456 (Membership), 977,859 (home/away)
- Hawthorn 239913 (Facebook), 47900 (Twitter), 68552 (Membership), 907,142 (home/away)
- Carlton 214941 (Facebook), 55200 (Twitter), 47482 (Membership), 847,973 (home/away)
- Richmond 164628 (Facebook), 45200 (Twitter), 66122 (Membership), 839,759 (home/away)
- Adelaide 162700 (Facebook), 47600 (Twitter), 57171 (Membership), 821,834 (home/away)
- West Coast 206031 (Facebook), 38500 (Twitter), 58426 (Membership) 691,803 (home/away)
- Sydney 192992 (Facebook), 51300 (Twitter), 40123 (Membership), 734,039 (home/away)
- Geelong 126418 (Facebook), 45000 (Twitter), 43806 (Membership), 785,956 (home/away)
- Port Adel. 118481 (Facebook), 32900 (Twitter), 55508 (Membership), 775,274 (home/away)
- Fremantle 156121 (Facebook), 35900 (Twitter), 48776 (Membership), 684,677 (home/away)
- North Melb 85268 (Facebook), 30500 (Twitter), 40027 (Membership), 617,316 (home/away
- Melbourne 65084 (Facebook), 31100 (Twitter), 35911 (Membership), 655,946 (home/away)
- St Kilda 112247 (Facebook), 32500 (Twitter), 30821 (Membership), 606,410 (home/away)
- W Bulldogs 73147 (Facebook, 24100 (Twitter), 31528 (Membership), 532,197 (home/away)
- Brisbane 92382 (Facebook), 25000 (Twitter), 23930 (Membership), 470,337 (home/away)
- Gold Coast 87611 (Facebook), 28100 (Twitter), 13478 (Membership), 458,510 (home/away)
- GWS Giants 43455 (Facebook), 25800 (Twitter), 13047 (Membership), 353,811 (home/away)
- Collingwood 4
- Essendon 10
- Hawthorn 13
- Carlton 20
- Richmond 22
- Adelaide 26
- West Coast 29
- Sydney 30
- Geelong 35
- Port Adelaide 38
- Fremantle 39
- North Melbourne 54
- Melbourne 55
- St Kilda 55
- W Bulldogs 59
- Brisbane Lions 62
- Gold Coast 68
- GWS Giants 70
Home game attendance only and it changes a bit...
- Collingwood 308011 (Facebook), 64700 (Twitter), 79273 (Membership), 528,079 (home)
- Essendon 295112 (Facebook), 63500 (Twitter), 60456 (Membership), 495,733 (home)
- Hawthorn 239913 (Facebook), 47900 (Twitter), 68552 (Membership), 405,879 (home)
- Adelaide 162700 (Facebook), 47600 (Twitter), 57171 (Membership), 528,558 (home)
- Carlton 214941 (Facebook), 55200 (Twitter), 47482 (Membership), 434,069 (home)
- Richmond 164628 (Facebook), 45200 (Twitter), 66122 (Membership), 475,142 (home)
- West Coast 206031 (Facebook), 38500 (Twitter), 58426 (Membership) 376,176 (home)
- Sydney 192992 (Facebook), 51300 (Twitter), 40123 (Membership), 358,541 (home)
- Port Adel. 118481 (Facebook), 32900 (Twitter), 55508 (Membership), 489,726 (home)
- Fremantle 156121 (Facebook), 35900 (Twitter), 48776 (Membership), 392,238 (home)
- Geelong 126418 (Facebook), 45000 (Twitter), 43806 (Membership), 373,038 (home)
- North Melb 85268 (Facebook), 30500 (Twitter), 40027 (Membership), 268,661 (home)
- Melbourne 65084 (Facebook), 31100 (Twitter), 35911 (Membership), 282,016 (home)
- St Kilda 112247 (Facebook), 32500 (Twitter), 30821 (Membership), 256,260 (home)
- W Bulldogs 73147 (Facebook, 24100 (Twitter), 31528 (Membership), 244,923 (home)
- Brisbane 92382 (Facebook), 25000 (Twitter), 23930 (Membership), 217,092 (home)
- Gold Coast 87611 (Facebook), 28100 (Twitter), 13478 (Membership), 177,017 (home)
- GWS Giants 43455 (Facebook), 25800 (Twitter), 13047 (Membership), 101,491 (home)
- Collingwood 5
- Essendon 11
- Hawthorn 17
- Adelaide 21
- Carlton 22
- Richmond 22
- West Coast 28
- Sydney 32
- Port Adelaide 33
- Fremantle 36
- Geelong 38
- North Melbourne 54
- Melbourne 55
- St Kilda 55
- W Bulldogs 59
- Brisbane Lions 62
- Gold Coast 68
- GWS Giants 70
Thanks Hawk! That would be the most accurate guide for total support!
Pies, bombers and hawks clearly top 3. The only team that would be higher one that list if they had a bigger stadium would be west coast and probably freo. West coast would be around 4th or 5th with Carlton and Adelaide and Richmond Freo will be around where Sydney are.
The most accurate way would be even to factor in wins and losses in to the attendances, because as we all know, crowds increase with form. Memberships generally depend on the year before. Not sure exactly how somebody could do it, but if they could work out some kind of formula and apply it that would be a fairer indication.
Reasonably accurate but not iron clad. The top 10 clubs, with the exception of Richmond, have all had periods of on field dominance over the preceding 20/25 years.
Collingwood and Essendon are the clear 1 and 2 in terms of national appeal.
If Richmond got their s**t together (and its a big if) they would surge up the list (probably taking Hawthorn and sitting clear 3rd in the league). You've only got to look at the interest they attracted in the lead up to this year’s finals series (how many other clubs could draw 7000 plus members across a state border to an Elimination Final?).
With their move to the MCG imminent, Carlton will join Hawthorn on the 4th band if/when they find a way to convert their broad fan base into paid up members. There is a lot of apathy at Carlton at the moment, for a club that has the 4th largest Facebook presence and 3rd most active Twitter page their membership (8th) is deplorable.
Compare their numbers to Port Adelaide, who despite sitting par for course with St Kilda for Facebook (11th) and Twitter (12th) have the 7th largest membership in the league (12,000 more than Carlton, 23,000 more than St Kilda). Port’s crowds have been enormous at the Adelaide Oval this season (43,000 plus, 4th in the league) but it’ll be interesting to see just how they sustain it. Way back in 1997 they finished their inaugural season with the 5th highest home attendance in the league (35,000 plus) but were unable to sustain the numbers as the years went on…
On field success doesn’t necessarily translate to off field popularity. For all their recent success, Geelong really haven’t moved from 7th to 9th while St Kilda have slipped from 9th to 15th on the back of a capitalisation post 2009/2010. By playing 7/8 games at Kardina Park, the Cats remain attractive to a largely regional/rural base of fans.
By comparison Hawthorn’s numbers (membership, facebook, merchandise and attendances) have surged more than any other club in the league. For Victorian clubs, the MCG is crucial to club growth. The ground provides accessibility to a wider pool of fans and with games more likely than not played in the daytime hours (compared to Ethiad) are far friendlier for families. The Hawks have been an MCG club for 15 years now and given their recent 7/8 year period of success are now well placed to consolidate and build upon their surge in support (similar to the Tiges and Dons in the 70s and 90s).
I can understand why St Kilda (who are now the only club based south of the Melbourne CBD) are strongly lobbying to play more games at the MCG. Without continual exposure to the MCG its very difficult to build support (as we've seen with Essendon's stagnating numbers over the past 15 years)
With respect to St Kilda I would imagine that St Kilda and Melbourne would have a very similar fan base (far and away ahead of North and the Bulldogs, similar to Geelong). Both have a strong bandwagon element and given Melbourne have dwindled for so long, we’ve largely forgotten their pull. The first year they appear as a major contender I’d imagine that they would have a similar year to St Kilda in 1997 where the Dees will attract very strong crowds…
It’s very difficult to draw too many conclusions from crowd size anymore. Given the AFL have a number of 'locked in' marquee fixtures every season, the AFL have essentially ensured that the status quo remains every season regardless of on field performance (where the top 6 Victorian clubs dominate the marquee fixtures).
This is actually the first season in more than 8 years that the top 6 home and away drawing clubs haven’t been dominated by the traditional big 4 + the new money clubs Hawthorn and Geelong…and even then that’s only because Adelaide (5th) bumped out Geelong and packed out the Adelaide Oval in pretty much every game they played in...
I would argue that if North Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs drew 700,000 and St Kilda or Melbourne drew 800,000 to their home and away games it would be just as impressive as Hawthorn drawing 950,000, Richmond, Carlton or Essendon drawing 1,000,000 and Collingwood drawing 1,100,000 to their home games.
...but that's for another thread
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Any metric were West Coast are as low as 7th is flawed
West Coast are either second or third and would have more fans in Perth than any other club would in their home city
I can't really think of one but the reality is that West Coast would be the second or third biggest club in the country.
Pretty much every single poll done on WA football has at least 50% of WA respondents nominating West Coast as their club of choice.
Once rural WA and older people are taken into account the real figure would be at least 60%
Not doubting that at all, what I find surprising is that its not reflected in any current metric.
That could have something to do with the fact that West Coast are so dominant in the WA market and that they are so wealthy that there is very little need to engage with supporters at all.
Well there pretty much is zero supporter engagement. There is a years long waiting list for seated memberships which are restricted by Subi's capacity.
So the club doesn't really have to do anything at all to make the massive revenues it does.
I think your metrics work really well for the Victorian clubs but Adelaide and West Coast are really too unique to be accurately represented.
No doubt once the Eagles (and Freo for that matter) start playing at the new Perth Stadium then the crowd figures and membership numbers will be a more accurate reflection of their supporter base, and should translate into West Coast moving up a few places on that leaderboard. Also, their social media figures are perhaps a bit below what you would expect, but West Coast haven't had much success in the era of social media, and success tends to attract likes on Facebook and followers on Twitter.
It depends. Revenue is one metric and probably the one that actually effects clubs the most but it's pretty distorted by stadium deals and pokies and the like.
Based on revenue Fremantle would be one of the biggest clubs but I think your early metrics place it's actual support quite well (though I'd have them ahead of Sydney)
I think it's more that the club hasn't put much effort into social media and that social media is biased towards a younger base- like Hawthorn for instance.
Ned_Flanders
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to be fair to the club, its tough to give a s**t about your facebook page when most Eagles members still have dial up modems because thats all they need for telnet
Well, from the annual reports, we can determined that West Coast was certainly right up there on revenue, membership revenue, and football department spend.
Adelaide's report, however, was curiously short on those fronts.
ADSL 2+ to get all the latest knitting patterns and Chardonnay specials, you mean. But social media is for hooligans and those yolo-ruffians!
Ned_Flanders
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Those figures would be gross receipts from merchandise sold by the club only and (obviously) wouldn't include merchandise sold by third parties (which is going to be most of it). Given that it's not going to be overly representative of much.
- Moderator
- #48
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-19/selling-like-hot-cakes
AFL jumper sales (% up to the end of Q3 2013)
1. Essendon 10.71
2. Hawthorn 10.70
3. West Coast 8.60
4. Carlton 8.09
5. Collingwood 7.62
6. Richmond 7.04
7. Adelaide 6.52
8. Fremantle 6.47
9. Geelong 5.81
10. Sydney 5.43
11. St Kilda 4.75
12. GWS 3.61
13. Port Adelaide 3.51
14. Brisbane 2.89
15. NMFC 2.58
16. Gold Coast 2.27
17. Western Bulldogs 1.99
18. Melbourne 1.40
AFL jumper sales (% up to the end of Q3 2013)
1. Essendon 10.71
2. Hawthorn 10.70
3. West Coast 8.60
4. Carlton 8.09
5. Collingwood 7.62
6. Richmond 7.04
7. Adelaide 6.52
8. Fremantle 6.47
9. Geelong 5.81
10. Sydney 5.43
11. St Kilda 4.75
12. GWS 3.61
13. Port Adelaide 3.51
14. Brisbane 2.89
15. NMFC 2.58
16. Gold Coast 2.27
17. Western Bulldogs 1.99
18. Melbourne 1.40
Ag
This does not prove anything especially considering that Collingwood are ranked 5th. Plus it is only jumpers but not total merchandise.
The figures Hawwk produced are the most accurate you will find expect for west coast and freo as they only at in a 40,000 seat stadium.
West coast not doubt will be in the top 2 or 3 in the comp. in my opinion the biggest clubs in the comp in order would be
1.collingwood
2. West coast
3. Adelaide
4. Essendon
This does not prove anything especially considering that Collingwood are ranked 5th. Plus it is only jumpers but not total merchandise.
The figures Hawwk produced are the most accurate you will find expect for west coast and freo as they only at in a 40,000 seat stadium.
West coast not doubt will be in the top 2 or 3 in the comp. in my opinion the biggest clubs in the comp in order would be
1.collingwood
2. West coast
3. Adelaide
4. Essendon
Also in the afl.com fans survey the biggest clubs were
1. Collingwood
2. Hawthorn
3. Essendon
4. West coast
5. Adelaide
6. Carlton
And that was postered in August this year.
1. Collingwood
2. Hawthorn
3. Essendon
4. West coast
5. Adelaide
6. Carlton
And that was postered in August this year.
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