Game Day Darcy Moore (Thread closed - pls move over to 'welcome ...' thread)

[Gone Critical]

But won't we have to commit to Moore once the pre-draft bidding has been finalised? Eg. if Carlton bid their pick 6 for Moore we either commit to using pick 8 or pass and he goes to Carlton. There'll be no ticking of lists as our decision on Moore will be made prior to the draft-take him with our next pick after the lowest pick bid or pass completely.

Think the point is if Hine is ticking off players now and doesn't have Moore in his top 8 he may pass if say Carlton bid on Moore. In that instance Hine would know he would get a player he rates more highly than Moore with our pick 8

 

[MyManLynch]

But won't we have to commit to Moore once the pre-draft bidding has been finalised? Eg. if Carlton bid their pick 6 for Moore we either commit to using pick 8 or pass and he goes to Carlton. There'll be no ticking of lists as our decision on Moore will be made prior to the draft-take him with our next pick after the lowest pick bid or pass completely.

Correct. We have to confirm we are taking Moore or not at the bid meeting on the 6 Oct.
If a Carlton bid 6, we either pass or confirm using our pick 8.
If Hine has Moore rated in the top 8 then we grab him, however he has him at 9 or higher then a decision has to be made.

 

[Ricky90]

I'm resigned to picking up Darcy at pick 8.

The only saving grace I can think of, is that teams usually don't pick on potential. Other than Bontempelli last year, I can't think of any really high end, premium draft choices who were largely an unknown quantity, and picked out of complete faith in a club's development system (maybe Buddy?)

Moore is touted as top end, not entirely because of his performances to date, but because of his pedigree and where his assets could take him. There are a number of midfielders who have the runs on the board - you look at those guys and you say "yep, going to be a 200 game player". You don't really say that about Moore, you say "kid could be a once in a generation forward, or he could be the next Jack Watts". It's a big risk to take so high in the draft. There are also a number of talls who are in a similar boat to Moore (Goddard, Durdin), or maybe even rated ahead (McCartin, Wright) who those clubs in need might (or should) prefer.

The other thing that I think works in our favour, with regards to the Bulldogs is that Forwards do typically take longer to develop. The Doggies are building a wonderful midfield group and most of them have a couple of years under their belt by now, even more by the time Moore would be performing somewhere near good enough for debut. Would it not be wiser for the Dogs to again go for a midfielder and trade into ready made talls when their core group has hit their peak?

Having said that I still think St. Kilda, Brisbane and Carlton are in dire need. We'll be lucky if no one in the top 7 bid. But we can always hope.

 

[Mateyman]

Don't reckon Dogs will screw us. They have about 3 promising F/S coming through, so I think they might want to play nice pick wise on the proviso that we do the same thing if we were in their position

 

[Old Spice]

But won't we have to commit to Moore once the pre-draft bidding has been finalised? Eg. if Carlton bid their pick 6 for Moore we either commit to using pick 8 or pass and he goes to Carlton. There'll be no ticking of lists as our decision on Moore will be made prior to the draft-take him with our next pick after the lowest pick bid or pass completely.

What he's saying is that we'll take the best at 8. If Hine rates Moore at 8, he'll take him if another club pre-selects earlier, but if he doesn't rate him at 8, he wont.

If other clubs don't really rate Moore at a pre 8 pick but want to nominate him, then they had better be prepared to take him.

Personally, I'd be sniffing around Jacksh with a trade deal prior to father-son nominations with some intent to pursue him should things not fall our way in f/s nominations. The same applies to other trade targets for teams preceding us in the draft, whether they be players they want to get or players they want to retain.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

We have pick 8 and Carlton have pick 6, so if Carlton nominate Moore, we effectively move up 1 spot to pick 7? I LOVE IT

 

[Old Spice]

Don't reckon Dogs will screw us. They have about 3 promising F/S coming through, so I think they might want to play nice pick wise on the proviso that we do the same thing if we were in their position

Those are tacit deals that need to be spoken about. Diplomacy and feet to the fire.

 

[Old Spice]

We have pick 8 and Carlton have pick 6, so if Carlton nominate Moore, we effectively move up 1 spot to pick 7? I LOVE IT

That's only true if Hine doesn't rate Moore in the top 8.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

That's only true if Hine doesn't rate Moore in the top 8.

Catch-up will ya, F U Carlton

 

[Seedsfan]

All this talk is just smoke and mirrors Hine is doing his best to make clubs second guess so they don't nominate him, North publicly committing to McDonald last year, that made sure that they had to use pick 8 on him. By all this talk floating around he is trying to make recruiters think there is something wrong here with Moore he isn't as good as we thought should we take a risk biding on him? Do Collingwood know something we don't? Is that why they are not to keen on him at 8? If the doubt is in the 7 other clubs have that doubt in their minds they may think * it we will just go with one of the other talls that we watched closely this year as we know what we were getting. Speaking to an Adelaide recruiter at the start of the year he said that they would not spend much time looking at Moore because he will be at Collingwood and that there is no way we would pass him up with our first pick and they would fire in a bid if they could. Turns out they can't but now if other clubs took that approach alarm bells will be ringing about now.

 

[Old Spice]

All this talk is just smoke and mirrors Hine is doing his best to make clubs second guess so they don't nominate him, North publicly committing to McDonald last year, that made sure that they had to use pick 8 on him. By all this talk floating around he is trying to make recruiters think there is something wrong here with Moore he isn't as good as we thought should we take a risk biding on him? Do Collingwood know something we don't? Is that why they are not to keen on him at 8? If the doubt is in the 7 other clubs have that doubt in their minds they may think **** it we will just go with one of the other talls that we watched closely this year as we know what we were getting. Speaking to an Adelaide recruiter at the start of the year he said that they would not spend much time looking at Moore because he will be at Collingwood and that there is no way we would pass him up with our first pick and they would fire in a bid if they could. Turns out they can't but now if other clubs took that approach alarm bells will be ringing about now.

Or maybe Hine actually has a list of his top 8 players and won't be swayed by sentiment, which is really what other clubs are counting on. We had Pendlebury well ahead of others in 2005. We had Beams high up in the order. We had Broomhead well up in the draft which also shocked some watchers.

He'll take who he rates and Pie fans should get ready to get over any sentimentalism regarding Moore.

But at any rate I wouldn't say no to Collingwood looking at Jacksh should Moore be nominated in f/s selection by Carlton as an alternative tall. You might look at KPD trade options to the Dogs and so on.

 

[Seedsfan]

Or maybe Hine actually has a list of his top 8 players and won't be swayed by sentiment, which is really what other clubs are counting on. We had Pendlebury well ahead of others in 2005. We had Beams high up in the order. We had Broomhead well up in the draft which also shocked some watchers.

He'll take who he rates and Pie fans should get ready to get over any sentimentalism regarding Moore.

But at any rate I wouldn't say no to Collingwood looking at Jacksh should Moore be nominated in f/s selection by Carlton as an alternative tall. You might look at KPD trade options to the Dogs and so on.

If he does not take Moore it will be the beginning of the end of Hine at Collingwood, if Moore was to go on and become a star at Carlton he will get sacked and he will knows that. Moore will be at Collingwood next year Hine is doing his best to get him at a second rounder.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Most people on this board is overthinking it (as usual).

No one will play games. Hine will only pick Darcy at 8 if he thinks he is in the top 8 players in the draft. And that is what he is saying.

Another club will only bid on Darcy with their pick if they think he is worth that pick. No one will 'bluff', because why would they? The risk they would take on is more than the reward of 'forcing' a pick.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

If he does not take Moore it will be the beginning of the end of Hine at Collingwood, if Moore was to go on and become a star at Carlton he will get sacked and he will knows that. Moore will be at Collingwood next year Hine is doing his best to get him at a second rounder.

It doesn't work like that

 

[soreplums]

All this talk is just smoke and mirrors Hine is doing his best to make clubs second guess so they don't nominate him, North publicly committing to McDonald last year, that made sure that they had to use pick 8 on him. By all this talk floating around he is trying to make recruiters think there is something wrong here with Moore he isn't as good as we thought should we take a risk biding on him? Do Collingwood know something we don't? Is that why they are not to keen on him at 8? If the doubt is in the 7 other clubs have that doubt in their minds they may think **** it we will just go with one of the other talls that we watched closely this year as we know what we were getting. Speaking to an Adelaide recruiter at the start of the year he said that they would not spend much time looking at Moore because he will be at Collingwood and that there is no way we would pass him up with our first pick and they would fire in a bid if they could. Turns out they can't but now if other clubs took that approach alarm bells will be ringing about now.

Passing on Stewart also plays into this a bit. He was ranked a top 5-10 pick at one point and we passed on him. It may add a little confusion to other recruiters (watch Draft Day with Kevin Costner about the Cleveland Browns). If we had a pick outside 10, then clubs would say the Pies would definitely take him, but having one inside may create the slightest of doubts (here's hoping)

Ps... Hine should be floating pick 8 to GWS for Jaksch to start some rumours that we may pass on Moore adding a little doubt in recruiters minds, and possibly forcing Carlton to offer pick 6 for Jaksch. Would GWS take Moore with one of their two top 6 picks?

 

[soreplums]

If the Lions pick up Ryder, would they or Essendon use their pick on Moore?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/father-son-explained-hopefully-once-and-for-all.1075178/

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If the Lions pick up Ryder, would they or Essendon use their pick on Moore?

If the Lions want to use their first pick on Ryder then they have to still be the owner of that pick in trade week. If they have already spent it on Moore (and Collingwood doesnt match the offer) then they havent got that pick any more and will miss out on Ryder. Cant see whats in it for the Lions to take that risk.

If Essendon want to bid for Moore then they can do that too. But as they are behind us in the draft order we will only need to match their offer in the second round.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Most people on this board is overthinking it (as usual).

No one will play games. Hine will only pick Darcy at 8 if he thinks he is in the top 8 players in the draft. And that is what he is saying.

Another club will only bid on Darcy with their pick if they think he is worth that pick. No one will 'bluff', because why would they? The risk they would take on is more than the reward of 'forcing' a pick.

We will take Moore at 8 even if we "only" think hes worth pick 15 or 20. The draft order is not THAT scientific. Just go back and re-do any draft over the past 15 years. You wont get the same results now as you did at the time. Nathan Fyfe would no longer be pick 20, he'd be pick 1.

It only takes one club ahead of us in the draft to bid for him. Thats likely. If he drops to second round for us it will be a bonus.

 

[Apex36]

If the Lions want to use their first pick on Ryder then they have to still be the owner of that pick in trade week. If they have already spent it on Moore (and Collingwood doesnt match the offer) then they havent got that pick any more and will miss out on Ryder. Cant see whats in it for the Lions to take that risk.

If Essendon want to bid for Moore then they can do that too. But as they are behind us in the draft order we will only need to match their offer in the second round.

The Lions may well not have to trade for Ryder if he uses the get-out clause in his contract.

Regardless, if the Lions feel they have secured Ryder before the FS bidding, even if they aren't using their first rounder on Ryder I doubt they would bid on Moore. They have quite a bit of tall timber with Ryder (I imagine they would use him as a forward rather than a ruck), and would more likely look to top up their midfield.

 

[mattys123]

It's all games people, we are picking Darcy Moore when we are forced to, be it 1st or 2nd round, don't worry about that.

Comparisons to the Stewart and Kelly cases are irrelevant really, as neither were rated as top talent at the time of their draft, hence we passed on them or at lease passed on having to use an early pick for them.

I'm been resigned to using pick 8 (or 9 if Melbourne get Frawley compo) for a while now, and Moore is well worth a pick in the 7-10 range IMO.

I think he also fits the type of player we need going forward, he's another Ben Reid basically, one that can play forward or back given the situation we find ourselves in. Those players are extremely rare indeed, especially at 199cm with midfielder like pace.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The Lions may well not have to trade for Ryder if he uses the get-out clause in his contract.

Regardless, if the Lions feel they have secured Ryder before the FS bidding, even if they aren't using their first rounder on Ryder I doubt they would bid on Moore. They have quite a bit of tall timber with Ryder (I imagine they would use him as a forward rather than a ruck), and would more likely look to top up their midfield.

Agree.

Regardless the Father-son bid occurs BEFORE trade week. They may well feel they can land both Moore and Ryder. On the other hand they probably know Collingwood will match the offer regardless so might consider it a waste of time and a distraction.

 

[augie]

There is no doubt in my mind that Darcy Moore will be at Collingwood next year, and I hold a slim, but genuine, hope that it will be for a second round pick. It helps that there are a few highly rated current players who possibly could move, but would require a high pick to get the deal done. This creates enough uncertainty that it might cause one or two above us to hold off on any bidding.

But I suspect in 10 years time, when he is captain of the pies and a four time All Australian, we will not be thinking about where he went in the draft.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Our Saving Grace might be Tom Mitchell with the Blues quite keen.

Personally believe they will be the only club to potentially nominate Darcy, but the industry talk is that they are heavily into Tommy M. If they are a chance to snare him they need to be prepared to part with pick 6 in the deal.

 

[Seedsfan]

It doesn't work like that

It does work like that, life after Cloke if Moore was to be playing well at Carlton and Stewart was playing well at GWS and we were in desperate need for a tall then he is done